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Posts posted by ASM915

  1. emb,

    Back in the teens, Dan Beard was working out of Massillon, Ohio. National asked how many Negro Scouts he had in his Massillon Area Council. His reply was he refused to answer that question, in his eyes they were all Scouts.

  2. I'm a latecomer to the thread.

    I took over as CA back in February. Youngest son had been CVC of Activities from the prvious October. The meetings are held at the Roundtable. Back in the spring, we were lucky if we had 2 to 4 members present. the CC, my son and I, contacted the Council Pro. that handled OA. We asked for a list of Chpater members. She gave us lists for 2007-09. The membership had dropped by 50%.


    We started off by creating an email list of the members, and the SMs of Troops in the Chpater. We then started a mass information campaign about Chapter & LEC meetings, Lodge events, opportunities for Brotherhood conversion, opportunities to work the Ordeal Weekends, etc. My son sent out personal invites to each ordeal member that was eligible for Brotherhood to attend & help with the Ordeal Weekends, then go for Brotherhood on Saturday evening. We also sent the same invite letter to the SMs, along with a list of names of their eligible Ordeal members, and to encourage them to take advantage of the Brotherhood opportunities. We also supplied the SMs a list of their scouts that had let their membership lapse, and to encourage them to rejoin.


    Slowly but surely, we started having memebrs start showing up to help with the Ordeals. We're still working with the Fellowships. With the Ordeals, and opportunities for Brotherhood at summercamp, we had around a 60% conversion of eligble members. Our Chpater membership also grew from 60 to 86 this summer. 7 of those from the same troop and having let their memberships lapse, all reregistering and taking their Brotherhood.


    Our Chapter has an annual Christmas party at RT. We also have a Climb Night during Christmas break at a local climbing gym. We have performed a couple of community service projects, followed by a swim after lunch. The turnouts are small, but growing. The last project was covered by the local press.


    I'm trying to talk the Lodge into a more meaningful Ordeal, not just camp setup and teardown. Talk about pulling teeth. Next step, talking them into splitting the clans up into two groups. One working in the morning on camp stuff while the other works on a meaningful project, then switch them after lunch. That way everyone gets to do both, and see that it isn't all slave labor.


    Good luck SctDad.

  3. Calico,

    I want the white diamond also. And beware of the dentist and the ferral cats in the oval office!!!


    Interesting item on "Talk of The Nation" this afternoon. The discussion was about End Of Life Counseling. The person being interviewed nailed several things that we have been discussing about when is treament to much, and overdone.


    tonight I was involved with two codes. One over 90, and one who was terminal, both with no family. Both initially survived and ended up on ventilators. At least someone, MD, distant relative, whoever, had the common sense to know that neither were going anywhere, except to lay around in an ICU to die maybe tomorrow, or next month, and asked that they both be removed from the blower and left to die quickly, and with dignit, which they both did.


    Gonzo my old friend, nice to hear from you. I'm surprised that you don't want everyone to have insurance, and a policy that covers unlimited chiropractic visits. LOL.

    We'll be coming Carla's way Sept. 11th, or has she moved over to Louiseville? Email me.


  4. Wow!!! I could play Devil's Advocate for both sides.


    I don't want Big Brother dicatating my healthcare, but then again, I'm not to happy with my insurance provider either, and I work in a medical center.


    We have had personal experience with the insurance bean counter. My wife is on one perticular medication. First time round, the pharm. company balked at having to fill the 90 day script, even though it was on their list of preferred med's. They wanted a diagnoses. Then they wanted something else, and wanted us to contact her physician. When I called in to the office, and talked with the office manager, who we have known for years, she informed me that the pharm. company wanted the office to change the script to a 30 day script. The company was loosing to much money by filling the 90 day scrip. She asked what the MD had written, then told them to fill it as written. Next time the refill came up, guess what? They wanted a diagonsis again. One other time, the same company made us go through an appeal process to get a medication approved.


    Same insurance company refused my wife one surgery needed urgently to prevent her from becoming blind, and a second surgery for degenerative deterioration of her mandibular joints. Both were considered cosmetic. One cost us $1400 out of pocket. The other has yet to be performed. We are only in our 40's.


    My wife wondered whether the insurance would pay for accupuncture. Oh right, no alternatives either. Someone needs to reign in the insurance and medical companies.


    Now for the flip side.


    Working in healthcare, and in a medical center, it literally amazes me some of the patients that are talked into and sent to surgery. The 85 to 90 year olds being sent for bypass or valve surgeries. The end stage cancer patients that are known to have only months, maybe a year. Does it prolong their life, or give them a better quality of life? The bypass and valve patients, only a hand full, and it usually is not a better quality of life. Most end up trached, with feeding tubes, and in a long care facility. The cancer patinets that are known terminal with no cure and chance, usually the same, if they even survive the surgery and hospital stay.


    I had a grandmother who was 90 when they discovered lung cancer. They wanted to do the biopsies. My uncles, the DPOA, both pharmacists, gave consent. It was then determined that the lungs was a secondary site, and they wanted to do a bone biopsy. Why? So they could treat the pain more aggressively. We tried to talk my uncles into refusing this biopsy, and to tell the doctors to just treat it more aggressively up front, since nothing was going to be done to stop the progression of the disease. They buckled, and put her through a needless test, knowing that the outcome was not going to change anything anyway. Medicare paid for everything. In these situations, some sort of "End of Life Counseling" is needed.


    The companies need some type of oversite, but I don't want Big Brother telling us we have to supply free healthcare for illegals, and that if my Catholic run facility wants to keep getting Medicare and Medicaid payments, that we will perform abortions.


    So who should we let play doctor, the bean counters for the insurance companies that screw us to make a profit for their investors, some of the greedy medical professionals who order ridiculous tests and procedures, or Big Brother who wants to take us to a socialized style system. Any way you look at it, I think we are all screwed.



  5. I did email the Lodge Chief and adviser about the situation Wednesday after checking it out. I haven't heard back yet. Then again, the Lodge Chief is also on camp staff.


    Talking with one of the former CA's, the thought is to talk with the scout, explain nicely what the issue is, and ask him to please hang up and not wear the BARS until next March. In March, contact the Vice Chief of Membership to notify him that the 10 month period is up and he would like to switch sashes.


    Is this something that can be handled calmly at the Chapter level, or should we toss it up to the Lodge.


    After the ceremony when we were congratulating the new Brotherhoods, he was the only one from my Chapter, I mentioned that I wanted to talk with him in a minute while I was shaking his hand. I thought he literally jumped out of his skin. I definitely gave him a startle. All I wanted was to introduce myself as his CA, and that he would be being contacted by the CC and myself soon. Now I wonder abou the reactionn and whether he knewn and felt he was caught?


    I feel that the Chapter officers, though young, could handle this well, with some coaching, and everyone could learn from the experience. The CC and CV's would probably also be a little more compassionate toward the scout, and not give him as a hard time over it, then what he might experience from some of the top dogs.


    Any additionl thoughts or suggestions?



  6. Scoutldr,

    A youth.



    As a CA.



    Yep, it should have worked. But the Vice Chief is also on staff as waterfront director. He's usually good at multi-tasking. The Brotherhood Chairman is probably the one that missed it.


    A few weeks from Brotherhood is one thing. But this one just went through Ordeal this spring. Plu we run Brotherhood every week at summer camp.


    I thought something didn't sit right when I heard the name, but coulcn't put my finger on it. When I arrived back at the house last night, I pulled my copies if the Spring Ordeal candidates and there he was.


    Does antone have Brotherhood candidates check in with Chapter officers or the CA before going ahead?

  7. Does anyone out there in WWW land have a fail-safe way to make sure that Ordeal members seeking Brotherhood are truly eligible, and don't slip through the crackes? Granted, the VC of Membership and the Brotherhood person should be able to prevent this from happening, but when it does, then what?


    How would you handle the situation where an Ordeal managed to seal their membership with Brotherhood before the allotted 10 months?

  8. On July 2, 2009 Jerrold Lockshin, 81, passed away. Jerry had a 70 year tenure in Scouting, starting at age 11, and still going strong at the end. Jerry was active as an adult volunteer in local, regional and national scouting. He was president of the Buckeye Coucnil, vice-president of Area 5 Central Region, and chairman of the National Jewish Committee on Scouting.


    He was the recipient of numerous awards within the scouting, civic, and religious communities, including the Silver Beaver, Silver Antelope, and the Silver Buffalo. He was a Vigil member of the OA, and a fifth year Pipestone holder. He was proud that his sons were Eagle Scouts, and that his wife, daughter, son Tom received the Shofar Award for Jewish Scouting.


    I only had the chance to know him for a few years. May the Great Campfire now hear his laughter.



  9. Is the problem missing Mass, or missing Communion? If it is Communion, can not a Eucharistic Minister give Communion? Have one of the parents train as a Eucharist Minister, a give Communion to th RC scouts at the end of a Scouts Own as the Prot. scouts are leaving.


    Ther other choice could be the round robin approach. This campout we attend a RC church, the next will be a Protestant church. If we have Jewish scouts, the synagogue will be on the third camping trip, etc. This way they can learn about different religions, and maybe come to reaslize that we all aren't that different. Just like a 10 Commandment Hike visiting a place of faith from several different religions.

  10. Chia,

    Welcome from Ohio. While visiting camp tonight I sat at a table with with a Troop from Carey NC. They brought about 70 people up to Camp Buckeye for summercamp and the Pipestone program.


    Good luck on the Crew.

  11. Again, my heart goes out to the family and troop.


    After going and reading the article that NE's listed, I have to agree that they were well prepared, that is except on one point.

    How would your stamina and strength going to be on your second run down the river? Then the third run?


    On the third run they had to be a little tired, and their stamina not as good as on the first run. It leads to tragic results when we don't listen to our bodies.


    They young ones may have the stamina to go two rounds, maybe three. At our age though, I might make two. I would be drained enough to not attempt a third run.


    The third run might sound like fun, but is it really safe?(This message has been edited by ASM915)

  12. Just came across an article talking about the incident Wayne was involved in. Craig McHouston, 48-51 y/o, of Rexburg, Idaho was two scout leaders thrown from their raft on Friday at the Three Oars Rapids on the Snake. The other leader managed to swim to safety.


    State officials state the flow was between 17,500 to 18,000 cubic feet per second, 4000 more then normal.


    I guess if your live by the sword, you die by the sword, in this case macho stupidity. Thank God it wasn't one of the scouts.


    My heart does go out to the family and troop.

  13. Wayne,

    Basement Dweller is right. Unfortunately the macho male ego will overrule common sense everytime. They think they're invincible, and PREPARED in their own mind, and it will never happen to them or their fare, until it is to late, like Friday.


    My heart goes out to you. It's hard dealing with idiots who just don't get it.


    Four years ago I was in a simular situation on the Yough. in W.Virg. The SM set up an unguided trip as a non-scouting event. We had several years experience running this river, and I have Swift Water Rescue training with the FD. I've never been thrilled with taking scouts on any unguided trips.


    I was asked to take an adult sibling of one of the scouts in our raft. NEVER AGAIN!!! We found out to late that he was to arrogant to listen to what he was told to do. Everything was funny and a joke.


    At Dimple Rock, a double hydraulic known as the Body Catcher, he didn't follow directions again and managed to wall us on the far rockface, swamp the raft catapulting it over.


    The wife managed to come up under the raft, hold on and be pulled through the rapid.


    SOB managed to somehow float out and down river.


    My oldest, a four year Varsity lettermen and open water swimmer was pinned underwater against the rock face with his paddle for 30-45 seconds before he managed to extricate himself.


    I was pinned under Dimple for 90 seconds and could feel the rocks V'ing behind me. Quite an unnerving feeling. I was POed that I was in this situation, was to the point if exceping the inevitable outcome, and yes, your life does flash before your eyes. I was thinking how POed the wife was going to be, and how long it was going to be before they found me. Somehow I managed to get pushed onto the bottom and feel my foot push down under a rock, the next "Oh Sh#*, not this too" feeling. I reached down to try to pull my foot free, and must have turned just right, and was popped out back into the main current.


    I ended up bruised down the whole left side from the bottom of the ribs to the ankle, had a torn quad. muscle (the only thing that kept me from kicking SOB's you know what, because I couldn't have an extra leg to stand on), and several abrasions and lacerations.


    The troop and former SM haven't been happy with me because I refuse to be involved or let the troop be involve in such an outting if it is unguided, and there are scouts under 15 on the trip, guided or not.


    The only thing slightly comical that came out of it was when I resurfaced, I had to play Rupert from survival, and use my tee shirt as a kilt, that was until SOB offered me his swimsuit since has also had on a wetsuit. Now I sport a "NUDE RAFTING PUTS COLOR IN YOUR CHEEKS" bumpersticker on the car.


    Le Voyageur, I agree. Let's pressure National to make WWR trips a mandatory guided trip if it hasn't been done already. Also institute mandatory minimum age requirements and Swimming MB as prerequisites.That's the only way to get the macho egomaniac SM's to comply.


    Let's also push then to incorperated Shift Water Rescue techniques into the Whitewater MB, as well as in your BSA River Guide program idea.

  14. 21 & John,

    On Wednesday's during summer camp, there are ice cream socials, on in the afternoon after the Brotherhood project for Brotherhood candidates and higher, an again that evening after the ceremony and Call-Outs for all OA members, with ice cream and pop. The Lodge also runs a Lodge vs Staff competion in the afternoon. As I stated in the original post, people will come walking in for the social, but not for the BC which is right after dinner and retreat.


    Ordeal Weekends and Fellowships, we have a COOK CREW, and do I mean a cook crew. How he does it on a $15 weekend budget, I have no idea. Back in March, we had shrimp scampi for crackerbarrel. You know, the ones the size of a Captain Nemo monster. We're talking marinated pork loins for dinner, etc. I like the staek idea, maybe for Fellowship. After the Ordeal Ceremony, there is an all night party at the dining hall with ice cream, pizza, snacks, you name it. The last one was a Monte Carlo night. Easy way to get rid of old Lodge stuff that doesn't sale any more. The newbies see it as winning a prize. One Ordeal had Red Neck Games for the party.


    So, I think the Lodge has the food, and offers the deversity at the non-summer camp events, at least for the youth. The numbers show up for Ordeal, and occassionally for Fellowship. The problem is getting them to gather for the ceremonies.


    Again, we may have 50-70 Ordeal candidates, and upwards of another 30-50 people at the weekend, especially on Saturday, but few taking the time to come to the ceremonies. It doesn't say a whole lot to the new Ordeals or Brotherhood candidates.


    I KNOW, a ban on PATCH TRADING from 4:00PM until the ceremony party. Bring the rubber wall padding, VALIUM & ATIVAN. I can just see the adults going into instant withdrawl, LOL. Maybe there is a member Shrink that might be willing to stand by, and run PTA (Patch Traders Anonymous) meeting. Just kidding. Well maybe.



    What does your Lodge do to draw in the adult membership, so the youth that do not usually show because of transportation issues, can snag a ride? How about you John?

  15. Since there is nothing revealed here, this was posted on the main OA page.


    Last night I ran the youngest out to camp to help with Call-Outs and Brotherhood Ceremony. I am our Chapter Adviser. Call-Outs ended up being handled in the dining hall due to several tornado and severe thunderstorm warnings, and Brotherhood a few hundred feet away under the Greenbar Pavilion between storms. With 20 going for Brotherhood the first week of summer camp, the ceremony was going to happen one way or the other. No problem there. It worked out well.


    The one thing that I have noticed, Wednesday evening (for Brotherhood) and last month at Ordeal Weekend and Conclave, as well as in last years ceremonies, is the lack of support by our members, for new members, as well as those sealing their membership by becoming Brotherhood, when they go through their ceremonies.


    At Conclave there were coinciding events with the Brotherhood Ceremony. Bad planning on the part of the Conclave staff. Hopefully this can be rectified for next year.


    I feel that if an Ordeal Member is willing to go through Brotherhood, especially at Conclave with strangers from other Lodges, that the people in his Lodge that are allowed to attended the ceremony should be there encouraging and congratulating him or her. Out of 45 (35 were at least Brotherhood), only two scouts and myself were present. As for Ordeal Weekend only myself, one other adult, and three scouts showed up for the Brotherhood Ceremony, and maybe fifteen total for the Ordeal Ceremony.


    Last night, other then four adults, all from the LEC, and three scouts, no one else bothered to walk over and show support, form the Lodge, or from the home troops during the Brotherhood Ceremony. And we're talking about several hundred people in camp. There had to be at least 40 or more members with Brotherhood or Vigil in camp besides the LEC and Ceremony Teams.


    Is it just me, or am I just getting more crotchety as I fast approach 50. I do have two other adults that are willing to help get our Chapter people out to camp. At least we have five or six younger ones willing to go out and help, a couple that are Brotherhood, the rest in the next few weeks.


    Are your Lodges' have the same type of turnouts as our lodge? Do you have a decent group show up? How many of your Chapter Chiefs, Vice Chiefs and or Advisers show up for any of the ceremonies? Or do they just hang around at the OA building, or the dining hall waiting for the social to start after the ceremonies end?





    (This message has been edited by ASM915)

  16. Knight,


    Long term camping of at least 5 nights can include Jamborees, Moots, 50 Milers Award, Philmont, Northern Tier, NYLT, Woodbadge for adults if the Council runs the week long program, summer camp, camp staff (talk about real long term camping, LOL), etc. Any camping expierence that last at least 5 night should count.

  17. Ghermanno,

    Congrat's. As Jack said, now follow through with offering the youth assistances with getting around to events, meetings, and elections.


    The Chapter Advisor shouldn't be the only person getting dumped on to run the Chapter. A couple of assistants is very helpful. Working 3-11PM shift, I relied heavily on 3 other adults that were willing to split up election team duties four ways. Otherwise the elections would have never been completed. Jack was one of those three.


    Ask your Chapter Advisor what kind of assistance he/she needs. The LEC and it's advisors is usually pretty strong. The Chapters seem to be where there are problems, abd need the most help. Good luck, and welcome.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

  18. On May 20th, 2009, Ryan Ostronisky, 17, left this world for his final home. Ryan was severely injured in an auto accident on May 10th. Ryan was a former member of Canal Fulton, Ohio Troop 3915 from 2003-2004. Ryan's brother Lucas, and father George, are current members of Troop 3915.


    In keeping with the spirit of Scouting, Ryan performed his last Good Deed helping countless others. On Ryan's 17th birthday, Ryan's organs were donated so that others may live. Ryan will be buried tomorrow morning with Catholic Rites. Please keep Rayn's family in your prayers.


    Eric Prather

    Bicentennial Eagle

    ASM Troop 3915

    Canal Fulton, Ohio

    Buckeye Council(This message has been edited by ASM915)

  19. On May 20th, 2009, Ryan Ostronisky, 17, left this world for his final home. Ryan was severely injured in an auto accident on May 10th. Ryan was a former member of Canal fulton, Ohio troop 3915 from 2003-2004. Ryan's brother Lucas, and father George, are current members of Troop 3915.


    In keeping with the spirit of Scouting, Ryan performed his last Good Deed helping countless others. On Ryan's 17th birthday, Ryan's organs were donated so that others may live. Please keep Rayn's family in your prayers.


    Eric Prather

    bicentennial Eagle

    ASM Troop 3915

    Canal Fulton, Ohio

    Buckeye Council

  20. I need some suggestions from some unattached individuals. Our CO is the local VFW. We are asked to do two things a year for the CO, put flags on graves on Saturday, and be in the parade today. This has been a point of no discussion in the past, always mandatory except with a good excuse. If you can't make one, be there for the other unless out of town for the holiday.


    We are presently a small troop, 10 scouts. One Friday the current SM sent out an email asking about the time for Saturday, and then in the next line made the statement that neither is mandatory to attend.


    The email went back with the time for Saturday, and that we should respect the VFW's wishes. Saturday morning, only two scouts and three scouters showed up (three families), and for today's parade, one scout and scouter. Two were excused due to the HS band being in the parade. One of the band members was one scout that showed on Saturday on his own volition. Two more were spotted in the crowd along the parade route, one being the SPL (SM's son).


    Next monday night will be real interesting. Need some ideas on how to bring this situation up, and discuss it, without blowing the roof off the place.

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