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Posts posted by ASM915

  1. I'm going to a B&G this afternoon where there will be an AOL & Crossover. Why in the dead of winter, at least for the Crossover & AOL? It would be great if they could be in a slightly warmer time of the year.

    A Pack/Troop campout would be a great time. Flsming arrows flying out over the lake, ceremony fires etc.


    Its Me, check with your local Historical Society. They lnow people involved in Living History programs. these people know how to and might be will to make AOL awards for you using traditional materials and techniques. You can even have the WEB's go on a field trip earlier in the year to visit, not knowing that these people are making something for them.


    Also the HS might be able to hook you up with area people with Native heritage that do programs for the youth and might be more that willing to help with the ceremony. Anything for cross-cutural education.


    Heed VigilEagle and Eagle-Pete's posting. Having a Native background, (somewhere from the 1700's), a wife whose greatgrandmother was a fullblood and a son who is very into his Native heritage, I have a little incite. You need to be careful when a ceremony takes on a Native flair. They are great, but know what you are doing. In the 70's I use to paint up for OA ceremonies and loved it. Now it is a MAJOR TABOO with National. Depending where you live (N. Mich?), you don't want people dressing as Apaches. You want the participants in regional regalia. BLACK, WHITE, RED, and YELLOW paint all have different significants in different regions and tribes. DEATH, WAR, PEACE, HEALING, etc.


    Not to sound like an alarmest, but last year about this time we almost had a situation in our Council where someone thought they were doing the right thing for the Cubbies, but didn't do their homework.

    The ceremonies central figure, a chief, it turns out was considered a traitor and political assassin by his own tribe. A REAL ROLE MODEL for the Cubbies. And if a parent did any research on the figure?

    You never know for sure who in your Pack or Troop might be offended if their culture is improperly portrayed.

    If AIM ( Amer. Indian Movement - a slightly radical group) had caught wind of our situation, Council wouldn't have known what hit them when a 100 or so protester appeared out of nowhere.

    The chief was immediately dropped. The award, a Tomahawk was used and the Native friends were more then willing to help come up with an age appropriate ceremony with a proper figure.

  2. Nice, Caveman. I like your posting.


    F, "Living the oath and law every day." Isn't Mon. evening part of the day. No one here is saying that the scout has to wear his uniform every minute of every hour of every day. None the less Mon. 7-9PM still qualifies as part of the day. If the CAVEMAN uses wearing the uniform to meetings as part of showing SCOUT SPIRIT, and a troop requirement for advancement, GOOD!!!

    Ah, the good old days when you could run across a SCOUT out on the street wearing his uniform looking for a GOOD DEED to do.

    Today so many youth, and adults for that matter, are SOOOO EMBARESSED to wear their uniform, sometimes even to meetings. Some of the adults are lackadaisical about the whole thing and don't/won't push the boys to do it.


    We have a new SM that just stepped. He would like to see the boys in dress uniform at least once a month. The rest of the month an activity uniform is alright. He's one of the asst/ coaches for the HS Wrestling Team. IF them there boys don't dress up or wear their team apparel you bet your know what that they're not going to be started that week or if they do they receive some other type of punishment for it. But I can't seem to get him to see the similarities.


    Caveman, do you have any other repercussions for not wearing the uniform at appropriate times? When do you require them to wear uniforms ie:during travel to and from events, camp-outs, Scout Sunday, etc? How do we get them over the embarrassment


    Last week at BPI someone had brought up the situation. He had held a TLTC. The boys had to be in uniform. After the training he surprised them with a pizza lunch at Pizza Hut. When they arrived some of the boys wanted to go to the restroom to dispense with their uniforms. He informed them that this was stil a scouting function and the uniforms stayed. Then they didn't want to take their coats off. A girl from a different group recognized one of the boys and came over to the table to talk. She noticed the uniform showing through the open coat and exclaimed " Your a Boy Scout? My older brother use to be a Boy Scout. HOW COOL. He use to do a lot of cool things. I always wished I could have been one too"

    Guess what happened? All them coats where off before you could blink and eye.



  3. Hey, DUD,


    Here's a good way to carry them WAG BAGS around. Saw this at NOAC during the Trainer program. Go to the hardware and buy some PVC piping approximately 4-6 inches wide by 24 inches long. Have one end sealed and the other threaded and fitted with a screw on cap. Pop the cap and drop the bag. Then reseal the tube. The tube can either be carried inside or strapped to the outside of your pack. There's very little if any odor, except when opened. The tube weighs very little.


    If you are packing it out, yes , send it up to the heavens in a bag for the night,(Definitely in a separate bag. Wouldn't want to grab the wrong fudge.) just like the food and dirty clothes, at least 200 feet (70 adult paces) from your campsite and from your kitchen.


    If you cathole it, when you bury it, leave a little stick sticking out the top of the internment site. That way BEAV doesn't exhume the remains. Pull the sticks when you vacate the premises and hopefully no one knows you've been there.


    If yours is a Crew and has females, definitely get the aforementioned book. It tells the opposites how to poo and pee in the woods without dribbling all over themselves, along with other feminine interests.



  4. FB

    I understand your plight. I'm involved with our chapter, not the advisor, just a concerned scouter. Our chapter barley has it's nose above the water.


    Some of the suggestions I've made to the chapter chief and advisor is to talk with the SM before the elections.

    Have the SM sit down with each potential OA candidates and interview them. Explain to them if elected to the OA what is expected of them (ie: attend 1.)the chapter meetings, there is always a ride, being held with the round-table, 2.) the lodge functions, Ceremonies, fellowships, conclaves, service projects, etc.).

    Explain the perks, Philmont, Sea Base, N. Tier for a fraction of the cost compared to regular scouts, if they are willing to provide service for on week, then get one week to have fun, NOAC, etc.)

    Let the scout know that being in OA can count toward NHS service. (I had a scout call me up the other night. He wanted to know if I could meet with him. He needed to have 5 papers signed for NHS verifying his leadership, and service projects that he had been involved with in scouting.)

    Ask the scout "Does he want the responsibility that goes with the honor?"

    Will he promise to follow through if elected?

    If the scout doesn't want the responsibility or doesn't want to be involved, the SM can hold that name from the ballot. Only submit the names of the scouts that are truely intersted in being involved.

    To many times the election is a POPULARITY CONTEST and the most deserving scouts get passed over.


    The chapter in the next district is thriving. Their advisor turned the chapter into a Venture Crew. The only major catch is that you have to continue to attend your troop meetings and activities to be an active member. In other words, don't drop the troop for the crew.


    I like CREW21's advice. I'm open to any suggestions that might help us also.


    Have a nice warm weekend. I hear NE Ohio might have a baumy 15 degree heat wave. YEAH!!

  5. We are just finishing up our recharted. Our CC who is a former SM calls all the inactive members each year and asks if they wish to stay on. To do so, He asks that they pay their registration fee, and make a donation which th CC uses as a FOS donation from the troop. Most of the inactive adults are more then glad to donate. Every year we make our FOS recharter requirement. This year we reupped with only 12 scouts, plus 4 crossovers this coming weekend and probably 20-25 adult members, the SM, 8-10 ASM's and 10-15 CM's

  6. Let's back up. Rank demotion as a punishment. National has apparently neither said yea nor ney. Instead of " Is it alright for us to use a rank demotion for punishment?", shouldn't we be saying "Just don't promote!!!"


    The last two requirements for rank advancement right before the BOR allow the SM latitude for punishment and redirection if used right.




    The ASM or SM should be the ones signing off on SCOUT SPIRIT at the SMC. If the SM feels the scout is lacking in SCOUT SPIRIT, he has the option of not signing off on it hence THE PUNISHMENT.


    At the SMC the SM while talking with the scout can ask the usual questions about how the boy feels about scouting. The SM might find out what the real problem is. He can also inform the boy how he, the SM, preceives the boys SCOUT SPIRIT, leadership, etc, or the lack there of.


    If the SM feels the scout is lacking in SCOUT SPIRIT, does not the SM have the option to try and redirect the scout? Inform the scout that due to the lack of spirit that the scout has to meet the following goals ( increase in spirit, improvement in behavior, increased leadership and participation ) over the next 2 or 3 months if he wants the SM to sign off on SCOUT

    SPIRIT and the SCM. IF not he does not get advanced.


    The SM might want to warn the parents of the decision either when they pick the scout up that night, or maybe before the SMC. By talking with the parents before hand, they might be able to give the SM some ideas on how to handle and motivate the scout. Maybe the SM can draw up a improvement contract spelling out what has to be done and by when. Invite the scouts parents to attend the last few minutes of the SMC and have all involved sign that they understand what is required. Ask the scout if you can have the SPL, JASM or Guide join them for a couple of minutes before they end the SMC. Inform the scout and parents that the SPL or other designee is there to help him achieve his goals and keep the SM appraised. Like myself, maybe the parent is willing to join the troop. The parent will have to understand that they will need to stay in the shadows and only step in when the situation calls for it. hey can also be a wealth of information on how to handle their kids particular issues or handicap. FYI, I have a 16 y/o son in our troop that is Bipolar/ ADHD tendencies and poss. has High Functioning Autistic Spectrum Disorders. Actually he shows more SCOUT SPIRIT then most of the other scouts. I only intercede when one of the senior scouts or another leader is having a rough time with my son. Sometimes it just takes a little education so they understand why he may come across a little HYPER., agitated or depressed and that when approached the right way, they can easily diffuse the situation.


    Just for YP, it might be wise to have another adult (ASM or CC) present during the SMC and or discussion with the parents. CYA!! Just because the SMC may be done in sight of the rest of the troop, it doesn't mean the troop can hear what is being said, and if the scout is really a bad seed and vengeful, he can say the SM said blah blah blah. If there isn't a second adult present, there could be a lot of unnecessary grief.



    If the behavior gets to the point that a removal is eminent, notify the Council first. They might be able to give you some direction. At least they are informed ahead of time. If the parent(s) don't agree with your decision and contacts the Council, it's better the Council already is aware of the situation and not getting blindsided by an irate parent screaming the SM or troop threw their kid out of scouting.


    Depending on the scouts behavioral issue or handicap, the Council might know of a troop better suited to handle such issues or handicaps if that is what they really are. (I know the GREATER CLEVELAND COUNCIL has a SPECIAL NEEDS DISTRICT to handle such situations.) This might make it easier on the parents, you acknowledging that you understand their son situation, that it is beyond your scope, but that you have a possible alternative for their son, if one exists.


    Just food for thought.



  7. Just CYA.

    The SPL should be trying to handle a problem along with the PLC, but under supervision of the ASM'S and SM. They then shouild recruit help from the ASM and SM if they are unable to resolve the problem. If the ASM and SM are unable to resolve the problem, then the parents need to be brought into the picture.

    At this point when the ASM and SM plan a meeting with the parents and the scout in question, it might be smart to have the CE or someone like the DE present to CYA. All you need for bad PR is a parent who thinks his kid is being ganged up on by the boys and adult leadership in the troop ( MY JOHNNIE IS PERFECT. HE WOULD NEVER DO THAT!),to start crying to the press.

    Hopefully the parents will work with the ASM and SM. The parents might be having problems also and might need a sympathetic ear and or advice.

    If you get to the point that the boy needs to be removed from the troop, the Council should be involved for advice and legality issues. Anyone can sue for anything. Doesn't mean they have a case to stand on, but a suit will make you all miserable, especially if the Council refuses to pick the attorney's fees.

    Also, never has an Eagle Scout been convicted of Murder. National has always pulled the Rank of Eagle before or during trial. So I guess that demotions can occur, but only in special circumstances.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

  8. Hey Fuzzy,

    What's that old saying "When in Rome do like the Romans." We'll just change it to "When in the woods do like the Natives."

    We'll take the PBA and TChip, use it on that multi-ton Oak, hollow it out and have a good old time floating around the Appalachian Islands.

    As for uz2, just hitch it up to the pickup. It shouldn't be to hard to move it and LNT. Just kidding there. No offense meant.

  9. Our Troop is infamous for the eleventh hour Eagles. We have had a few boys turn their paperwork in literally at 10:00PM the night before their 18th birthday. These boys are/were actually the more mature and organized ones. They knew what had to be done when and did it. We have a great CC who checks up on them and reminds them if time was short. In the last 3 years we've had 8 scouts make Eagle, 6 of them at the last minute, 2 in a timely manner, and 2 that were active but didn't finish in time. Six have stayed on as ASMs.

    Out the six, three had their ECOH within 2 months. A third waited about 5 months until family could be in from out of town for the holidays ( several of them being Eagles ), the fourth just finished his EBOR and has to make plans yet.

    The sixth one, who is now an ASM for the Troop, finished his at 10:00 PM the night before you know what. He always wanted to join Scouts but didn't do it until he was 15 yr. and 9 months.

    He informed the SM the night he walked in "I've always wanted to do this. I will be an Eagle by the time I'm 18. Will you help me do this or do I need to find another SM and Troop that will?"

    Other Scouters in the troop and District thought it was a pipe-dream and couldn't be done. He did it, is still very involved in the Troop, and still hasn't planned an ECOH. Granted, his birthday is in Nov, the EBOR was in Apr. and the recent SM forgot to notify him his packet from National had arrived until Oct. He is happy to be an Eagle and feels doing it in 2 years is an achievement in it self and doesn't care for all the hoopla.

    But he was informed by the District Adv. Chair when being interviewed for the Heroism Award last summer that he has certain responsibilities and obligations to fulfill with both the awards,

    1.) The main one being having your ECOH and NCOH to be recognized before your peers, younger scouts, etc.

    2.) Be present at the Council and District Recognition Dinners

    3.) And wear your awards/knots on your uniform with pride,

    therefore setting an example for the younger scouts (and older scouters) so they know what they can do if they put the effort into it and that their leaders have been in their shoes.

    We are waiting on National to send the Heroism packet. When it arrives and the National COH is convened, we plan on surprising him, combining the two COH's and awarding him a belated Eagle.(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

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