ASM915

keoki,

How old was the scout that offered up the joint? As stated by one of the posters, Council may feel that if they allow your son to re-register within the Council, that they would also have to let the other scout re-register. Maybe their stonewalling, wanting your son to wait a year to re-register, is a delay tactic to age out the other scout. It doesn't make it right for your son.

Do you know who the instigating scout is? Was he from this Council? Who is his daddy? Is it someone from the EC, and Council is trying to keep it quite, as not to embarrass one of theirs, and themselves?

These would be the only two reasons that I could possibly see for a Council snubbing Regionals directive to reinstate.

Scout,

I wonder were you know who got his start? Yes, maybe Schindler's List may be a bit extreme, but isn't 6,000,000 people ethnically cleansed because of their heritage the worst case scenario of racial discrimination? Sometimes it takes extremes to get boys to open their eyes and see the real picture. Only then may they see the societal effects of what they may consider harmless comments and name calling.

Another option could be something on Apartheid. In 2000, my son had the honor of meeting and becoming friends with Dr Colin Smith of the Tutu Foundation. Dr Smith is one of Mandela's confidants who had to flee S. Africa during Apartheid, because of threat on his life. He later returned, and became one of Madela's govt. officials, before moving to the Foundation.

In my last post, I meant to also throw in the American Culture MB as being required for these two.

The best way to open these scouts eyes would be to throw them in a reverse discrimination setting for 4 or 6 hours, maybe a day, where they were the ones on the receiving end, without their prior knowledge. The only problem would be how to do this effectively, while keeping them safe, and not lessening the effect because they think or know that they will be out of the setting in so many hours or at a certain time.

The scouts in question should have to work at getting off this hook, and show that they have learned from the experience. It shouldn't be a slap on the wrist.

Scout, how would you handle this situation?

Wow!!, Don't we have some learning opportunities here.

1) Weekend trip is out for both.

2) For the SPL:

- DEMOTION! Maybe APL if your so inclined to even give him that.

- If he does not have his Citizenship In The Community yet, make him do his required 8 hours of service to a non-profit organization with an organization that deals specifically with racial discrimination and hate crimes.

He also needs to watch a movie about the en-betterment of a community for the above merti badge. I wonder if Schindler's List, or a documentary on the Bosnian or Rwandan genocides, and how those countries are trying to work through the racism, would get the point across. But then again, the kids of todays society see so much violence on TV and at the moovies, that this probably would not have the affect that is needed.

- Same goes for Citizenship in The Nation. Have the speech that he needs to read, be a speech from an activist, or someone who has experienced racial discrimination.

- If he has not planned out an Eagle Project yet, have him center the project around fighting racial discrimination, community solidarity and awareness. Maybe a Cultural Diversity Fair for the community or school. Maybe set up, promote and run a conference on racial discrimination and hate crimes.

If he wants Eagle, he'll follow through. Maybe his eyes will be opened and he'll learn something.

Same goes for the younger scout. Same requirements. I don't think the above requirements are to harsh. Hopefully the above requirements will make them better men.

Skipper,

Older Life scouts? Depending on how your fact finding mission went tonight, if there was some maliciousness involved (or not), one good life lesson could come at their EBORs. Let them squirm a little when someone sitting the District EBOR asks each of them "We heard that a few months/years ago there was an incident in your troop involving Joseph an improper comment. Can you enlighten us on this situation, how it reflects on the Scout Law, Promise, Spirit, and how you handled it in your POR at the time? What lessons did you learn from this experience? How would you handle a simular situation if it happened again involving other scouts?"

When Joseph gets to his DEBOR, maybe he can be asked about his reflections on how he handled the incident, and then praise him for his maturity in the situation, and not taking it to the next level.

They will squirm. They will really wonder if the Eagle is achievable. They will learn a very valuable lesson. If their answers are well thought out and heartfelt, the Eagle will happen.

It's happened in our District when the board has been enlightened. They have been known to ask hard heartfelt questions to see if the scouts have really changed.

Proud Eagle,

First of all, the boys do need to buy into the program. Right now the program is lacking. The scouts start loosing interest, because the program is falling apart. Give them a vision, something to achieve. Maybe offer up three or four choices for a future trip (2-3 years down the road). Tell them that it is their decision. Ask them for ideas on how to fund the decision. Once you get them on board, have them make a presentation to the Webelos and Bears while the leaders present it to the parents. You may get some buy in from the pack, and some new members and adults.

As for getting the scouts to help with the pack, good question? I've tried to get them to be DC's for the last 3-4 years with know takers except for my son. Everyone involved with the troop, all with at least two years tenure, suddenly want to work with the Webelos, one DC and two or three assitants. Their reasoning for this setup, "We can rotate the meetings if our sports interfere". The troop might double up at crossover.

Scoutmaster and Committee Members:

- Has the troop looked at former scouts to see if any of them are possibly intersted in coming back to the troop as SM, CM, etc. The troop I Eagled in needed a new SM. A former scout, then in his late 20's came out of no where and stepped up. Things turned around and ran great.

- Has the troop checked out potential crossover Cub leaders who are former scouts, or at least interested in stepping up. Hold a meeting of the Webelos parents and see if there is any interest. I know our villages pack has two or three Eagle dads in it.

- If the above fail, then maybe District or Council may know of someone with experience looking for a challenge and willing to step up..

Good luck.

Gutter,

Purchase the Okpik book on winter camping and survival. If you live in or near the Detroit area of Michigan, the Clinton Valley Council offers a good Okpik training program, 16 y/o and older. Maybe make this a 16 and older campout. Wherever you camp, rent or have an indoor facility available if the weather gets bad, or incase someone gets to cold.

If they bring or wear cotton and sneakers, send them home. Wool, polar fleece, other synthetics are the only way to go. We ran a couple of winter camping trainings. We covered layering techniques, and had the FD bring in a thermal imager to show the scouts what clothing kept the heat in , and which ones didn't insulate. We still had problems with the newer scouts not bringing the proper clothing.

Instead of having your scouts and parents running out to buy expensive clothing, have them go to second hand stores or Goodwill. You can find old wool sweaters, maybe wool pants, second hand insulated boots, Columbia three layer parkas, each for just a couple of bucks. This way if they decide they don't like winter camping, they haven't blow a lot of money. Do have them go to Gander Mountain or Dick's Sporting (10% scout discount) for good wool or synthetic socks, gloves/mittens, head coverings. Great stocking stuffers for Xmas, no pun intended.

For bedtime,

1) Have them all hit the trees.

2) Have them bring a packet of Jello. Mix the Jello in a Nalgeen or other liter bottle with hot water, and drink it as a bedtime snack. It will warm them up, plus provide the fuel for the belly overnight.

3) Have them place very hot water in two nalgenes (preferable old ones that aren't used for drinking anymore). Seal tightly. Place each of the bottles in a wool sock and throw in the bottom of the sleeping bag. The bag will act as a isolette and create a nice warm sleeping bag. It will also give you nice lukewarm water, not ice in the morning for breakfast.

4) Clean dry clothes before bed. Socks on feet, and stocking cap, (better yet a balaclava on head and over mouth and nose). This way, they can keep their head out of the bag and warm, or at least their face exposed to the outside and warm. Other then that, I would sleep in my undies. In a "0" degree bag and or one with an additional synthetic fleece liner, let your body help heat the inside of the bag. If they wear lots of clothes to bed, the clothes will keep the bodyheat in the clothes, and the bag will not warm up. That will cause cold feet and hands, and a cold scout.

5) Sleeping system:

- Have them each bring a cheap foil rescue blanket. Have them line the tent floor with the blankets.

- Next a sealed foam pad for under the bag. Or if everyone brings one, line the floor with them.

- If they can get their hands on a foil-over bubble filled windshield

sun reflector, put that on the foam pad.

- Next a Thermarest pad on the reflector.

- Then the bag with a fleece liner. Have them place their next day clothes either in the bag, or between them bag and the Thermarest. Either way, the clothes will be warm.

- Have them place their DRY COATS (yeah, I know, kids) over their bags for extra insulation.

This system kept me more then warm at 10 to 15 degrees, and perfect at 0 degrees last Jan. at Klondike. Council actually called out on Saturday evening and told all of us to go home, "With the windchill, it will be to cold for you to stay out there over night. We won't cover any medical relating to cold injuries." Our Troop and three others stayed out, and had no problem.

Now let the first snowball fly!!!

Chug,

After a 22 year hiatus from Scouting, I politely informed SWMBO that she would become a Scout Widow. And when I die, that it isn't mold growing on my dead body, it just that I died while wearing the uniform (1 hour, oops, make that 40 hours a week. LOL.)

The few OOS trips we have taken, SWMBO has been invited, and participated.

scoutldr,

It was just a discussion. We have not run into this problem yet. Luckily, we only have one set of divorced parents in the troop, the SM and his ex, and this topic is not an issue. So let's rephrase the question a little.

troop ### is having a trip to DC. Johnie's parents settlement has a "No out of state travel" clause because one parent does not trust the other (or is being vindictive) or the court tossed it in on their own. Johnie really wants to go on the trip and neither parent will attend.

- Can the Guardian parent (or do both parents need to sign), or LPOA give permission for travel??

- Does the court need to approve and give permission for travel?

raisen,

I like that policy. I think that informing the group leaders in advance that someone will be picking the child up, is only polite. But the leaders have time to ask questions if need be. If the parent can't follow simple directions, parent pays.

Would it be proper at a new parent orientation to offer up the statement that "this troop does travel out of state a few times a year. If there are any concerns over this and or you do not want your child participating in these events, please come and discuss your needs with us so we can better accommodate your son."

OR

If it is noticed that the parents are divorced when the application is turned in, ask if there is any issues with out of state travel that need to be addressed, or other issues?

We had an ASM who went through a nasty divorce about 4 years ago. Threw a pillow at her one night and ended up with a DV charge against him (she was a deputy). Next thing we knew, he was not allowed to attend meetings and campouts because she filed a restraining order against him. The boys only ride was from grandpa or the boyfriend (another deputy). We ended up loosing a good ASM and two good scouts.

I would never want to get myself or a troop involved in the petty squabbles of divorce court, but I think a troop needs to be made aware of certain information. If there is a restraining order, and someone is not to be around the scout, we need to be aware of that.

If there is a "No travel clause", I would hate to be pulled over by an out of state trooper because one parent let the scout take the trip and the other decided to trigger an AMBER ALERT.

"Licence and registration please. Is Johnie So and So in this car. Sir please step out of the car. We have an AMBER ALERT out on this child, and we'll need to talk with you back at the station." OR "You need to turn around and take Johnie (and everyone else) back home."

I hope it never happens, but I'm sure it will if it already hasn't.

Not everyone is KIND and COURTEUOS. We would just like to BE PREPARED if and when we cross this bridge.

At our Monday evening meeting, an interesting topic came up. The question was raised about how to handle out of state scouting trips with respect to scouts with divorced parents. The concerned raised was whether the scout would be allowed to leave the state due to stipulations in the divorce settlement. The statement was made that the courts institute clauses restricting out of state travel of minors in the settlements. I'm ignorant. I've been happily married (well sort of, LOL) for 27 years as of T-day with no plans for a divorce. Plus my kids are all grown now anyway.

Is this the case in all divorce settlements, or only when there is a chance of a parent fleeing with a child.? Is this only valid on travel with a parent, or all inclusive? If this is a scouting trip, with neither parent participating, is there a way around the stipulation? How does your troop handle this situation?

I would just hate to see a scout miss out on a trip to DC, Philmont, NOAC, etc, because of a stipulation, especially when there is no threat, or because of a vindictive spouse.

Beavah, how about some of your legal expertise?

Our Lodge holds Ordeal at he end of May and again in mid August. The candidates help position the tent platforms and help with other camp projects. The camp ranger goes out to the sites before Ordeal and marks the platform sites with spray paint. After Spring Ordeal, during camp staff week, the staff put up the tents, and also take them down before Fall Ordeal.

I agree with emb. I would rather see the candidates involved with projects that will be around for generations to come, reforesting an area of camp, helping put in new ceremony sites, maybe helping put a new pavilion, etc. Something that they can show their grandchildren when they get to go to camp. I really like some of the things that Eagle92's Lodge is doing. Maybe if the rest of us had our Lodges do similar things, we might keep some of our Ordeal members involved.

samzpop,

Sit down with your troops advancement person and see if the scouts in question have met all the other requirements prior to your arrival. If so, your unfortunately obligated to continue them along the path to Eagle.

It is unfortunate that National now allows the Lifes' to sit back on their duffs and do nothing after six months of activity, if that is what they want to do, unlike when we earned our Eagles back in the 70's (76). Isn't it strange that if we make a call to ask them where they have been, that they are considered active, even though they are not the ones initiating contact. Maybe the requirement should read:

"shall be actively involved in your troop for the six month period immediately prior to starting your Eagle Project".

OGE,

All of your Porsche and Lotus dealers, as well as all the other working people, would now be green card holding residents from south of the border, Asia and Africa. Oops!! Forget that last statement. Pelosi will make sure they get their million also.

mm,

We went to DC last April 15-20th. We stayed at Hosteling International at 11th and K Streets for three nights, and camped at Mattaponi Retreat Center in Upper Marlboro, Maryland for a Catholic/ Protestant Scouting retreat on the weekend (tenting, cabins, pool, Six Flags close by). The hostel was $29 per night for a 6 bed room and $31 for a 4 bed room. For $2.00 more, you get a continental breakfast. I don't remember the rooms having AC, but we didn't really need it. During the summer you will. The elevator was slow. Parking, we were lucky. We arrived around midnight, and were able to park the van right in front of the hostel for the three nights we were there. Saved on parking across the street in the garage, or around the corner at the Muni lot.

Make sure that you tell the hostel exactly how you want things handled, adults roomed on the same floor as the scouts. If you have more scouts then you can put in one room and need a second, but will not fill it, book and pay for the whole room and split the cost of the unfilled beds. This way the boys will not have unknown roommates. Also, when booking the adult rooms, make sure you ask for same sex rooms. The just 18 y/o high schools senior ASM and I were surprised to find we were sharing a room with a young British couple on their way to New Zealand. We did some creative room shuffling and put him with his two brothers, and moved my 17 y/o son and wife into my room with me and the Brit's.

We hauled our food with us. The hostel had freezer, fridge ans shelf space for our supplies. Make sure you mark everything. We only put the perishables in the fridge. We kept the rest of the food locked up in the rooms. Older teens and adults weren't a problem, but some of the middle school kids that may be staying could be. We had some soft drinks that came up short.

If you meet some of the other groups' adult leaders', I would strike up a conversation with them about when they might be planning on using the kitchen facilities. That way you all could make plans accordingly so as not to be all wanting to be cooking dinner at the same time. We were more flexible since we didn't have a set schedule. If you have enough adults on the trip, another troop split the adults up. Half of the adults went back to the hostel in the afternoon, relaxed, and had dinner prepared when the group came back. The next night the adults switched.

All in all, the hosteling experience was good. The scouts were able to meet other kids their ages from Rhode Island, California, Boston, and England. If interested, contact Travlyn Moulten, the manager at 202-737-1508. He was a big help with everything.

The Doubledecker Tour Bus pick up was about 3 or 4 blocks away. They had a good two day price. The only drawback was that they only run a two and a half hour one way circuit. A good tour to kill a half a day. They have about 25 stops that you can get off at, and catch a later bus. It helped with getting to Arlington Cemetery.

Most of the main attractions are about a half hour walk from the hostel, the Capitol, White House, museums. The monuments were a little further. If they want to tour the White House, Capitol or Pentagon, make sure that you make requests at least two to three months ahead. If you visit the White House, contact the Red Cross. Their national office is just a couple of blocks away. They have a set tour schedule, but if they know that you are Scouts, they will set up a private tour, and supply your group with bottled water. We met some of their staff on the street and were invited to visit. We stopped in a couple of hours later and were treated like royalty.

The two day retreat cost $21/person, and the three days at the hostel, fuel and food cost @ $180/person. The fuel ended up being a little less, which helped with the tolls we forgot about on Pa. We came in about $30 over total budget because the deli meat for sandwiches on the way home got fried when the power cord for the cooler ended up plugged into the heat element instead of the cooling element, and had to stop for lunch and dinner on the way home.

Also, make sure they wear their dress uniform o the way to Dc and while touring. one of the Wendy's we stopped at let the leaders eat for free. Also, if you have Giant Eagle stores near you, and can rack up fuel perks while shopping for the trip, there is a GetGo about forty miles north of DC in Maryland, and a couple at different points just off the Pa Turnpike. We didn't know this until we were home. We could have filled the tank up twice for free, and actually could have charged less for the trip.

Sorry for being long. Have a great time.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Our district has a committee of 5 Scouters that handle ELPS. The Scoutmaster, after giving his approval on the proposed project, gives the Scout a name and phone number of one of the committee members. The Scout then contacts that person and sets up a meeting. The District person, after discussing the project with the Scout then initials the signature line. They'll only sign it after the project has been completed to their satisfaction.

Whoever is the District advisor for the project is not allowed to sit on the Scout's EBOR. Three other District people handle the EBOR and can drill the Scout about his project. If there were personality conflicts between the advisor and the Scout, no one can come back on the advisor after the EBOR.

EBOR's are held quarterly, on a Sunday afternoon. Each Scout is notified of a time to be at the church were the EBOR is held. If there is a conflict, The EBOR has been convened at other times.

Our troop, 915 in Canal Fulton, Ohio has a Scout House (15 by 25 and lofted) down in the towns park. The building was built back in the late 40's or early 50's by the Rotary as a war memorial and to only be used for Scouting. A few times over the years, the town toyed with razing it, but the Rotarians always show up at the council meeting with document in hand, and remind council that it is a memorial. The Troop's been in it since the beginning.

The only problem we have is that the building sits between the Ohio & Erie Canal and the Tusc. River, smack dab in the middle of the flood plain. Depending on the time of year and rain fall, we can boast having an indoor pool or ice rink.

Utility Wise, we are hooked to park electricity, but never receive a bill. Heating, a wood stove or propane heater. This year we are moving into the church that the Pack uses, and will move back out in the spring when it warms back up.

We've toyed with building a new green Scout House out of the flood plain.

309,

We just went over this last night at our District Roundtable. The DAC held his "Soon To Be Eagle" talk for the Star and above scouts.

If today, November 13th, 2008 is your scouts 18th birthday, your scout had to be First Class on or before July 13th, 2007. If he became First Class on July 14, 2007, he looses out by one day, and stays Life. If the committee were to then changed the date to make things fit, then there would be falsification of records.

Since your scout was Life for 23 months, he has the required time needed for all ranks and PORs regardless of dates. There should not be a problem. Yes the date may need to be switched by one day to keep the computers for glitching, and a letter added to the file to why it was switched.

This weekend was our District's Cow Pie Camporee. While helping with a station, the other adult leader and I ended up in a conversation about how many leaders were sitting around by their fires most of the day on Saturday.

We were wondering if anyone else has ever ran any fun or stupid adult activities at their camporees? If so what did you do? We thought maybe we would suggest trying this in the spring or next fall and name it "ARE YOU SMARTER THEN A TENDERFOOT". All ideas and suggestions are welcome.

YIS

Eric Prather

Bicentennial Eagle

ASM Troop 915

Canal Fulton, Ohio

Tex,

Good for you for wanting to take on the challenge of becoming SM. But like others have stated, you are chosen on your attributes and sometimes through the pecking order. You can inform the present SM that you are willing to step up and step in on occasion when the SM is not able to be present for an activity, and leave it at that. When you get to know the CC in more then an occasionally seen parent relationship, you could very subtly drop a hint that if and when the time comes that the SM decides to step down, that you would like to be placed in the pool of candidates being considered as a replacement, and leave it at that.

I was very involved in Scouts back in my younger days. Achieved Eagle. Was an ASM for a couple of years, then slowly fell away from Scouting. That was around 1980.

Fast forward to 2002. My oldest one joins at 15 y/o. The troop has a good reputation and is mostly made up of families from our church. We sit down and talk with the SM. We talk ed about Dave's intentions and plans, then a little about my past Scouting history. I informed the SM that I was more then willing to assist in any way and would like to register as an ASM. He asked if I would serve on the committee instead. He informed me that the previous SM had so many people registered as ASM's and he didn't know why. It turned out that most were under 21y/o at the time. I excepted and did what I could.

A few months later, the SM decided to move into the CC position. In private, I asked that I be looked at, along with who ever else was interested, for the SM position. He had already had a CM, Eagle Scout, that had came up through the troop as a scouts in mind for the SM, if he could talk him into the position. I asked about the ASM position, backing it up with that most of the under 21 ASM's were never there, and was granted my wish.

Adults in the troop were leery of the newcomers, (we didn't come up through the local Pack), the new father asking to be ASM (most of the over 21 ASM's only scouting experience was from the Pack, not from being involved in Scouting as youth) and a 15, almost 16 y/o who had his sites set on Eagle (he'll never make it, especially with all the camping). He is now also an ASM, and one day would like to become a SM.

Two years ago while at a committee meeting, we were informed that the present SM was stepping back into a CM position because he was to stretched time-wise with work and other activities. While trying to come up with a list of prospective SM's, one of the CM's tossed my name in the hat. Unfortunately at the time I was not able to except tha offer, one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. Next time the offer comes up, I'll be jumping at it. SWMBO was informed that she will die a scout widow.

I feel that a prospective SM should, if at all possible, come from the ranks of a person who experienced Scouts as a youth. That person already has a feel for how things should be done, and will not have to go through a year or two having to learn how to do Scouting.

I have to agree with some of the posters, that a SM whose son is already aged out, is better, because they are hopefully more focused on the troop as a whole, and not there to tunnelvision on what his son is doing in the troop, or changing troop events to fit with juniors sports/band interests, leaving the troop hanging.

We have had one father SM that knew how to play the game, an Eagle himself, and was able to focus on the troop as a whole. We have had one who had good intentions, but was busy (the troop suffered), and pushed his kids to much, to the point that they refused to get Eagle. The present one has only WDL experience, but is very sports focused. He wants the troop to work, but around sports. He does have good ties to the Pack, being a former leader. We'll see how things work out.

I had three SM's when I was in. One I do not remember if he had a son in. One did, and we played the "My dad is SM" game. My last, who I received my Eagle from, was young, married, no children, and had come up through the troop, and was probably the best SM I had.

jts has a great operation. A couple of weekends back I was fortunate enough to camp next to his gang. jts took the weekend off and delegated things over to his ASM's and CM's. The kids ran everthing themselves with very little adult supervision.

Tex, be quietly active, not over aggressive. Let your attributes show. If and when the time comes, with your son involved, or later after he has aged out, be willing to make at least a five year time commitment (don't just stay long enough to get the SM Key and bail like some do).

Over the last several years, one troop in our district has hosted a "Cow Pie Camporee" at one of the CM's farms. Over the years other troops have been invited. Last year they made it the district camporee. It is usually well attended, 100-150 people.

Last year the district also restarted a spring camporee, maybe around 100. One problem with spring is that our Council holds three Good Turn weekends at the main camp one of the requirements summercamps camp honors program.

This weekend, Council held it's first camporall in 20 years. Each district had a specific area to camp in. Our district only had five troops out of 17 show, maybe 70 people. Overall, there were over 800 in attendence. We may have talked with a few of you on the radio on Saturday.

Each districts each ran about 3-5 activity stations, one being set up for the Ultimate Troop Competition. One of our district CM's had the scouts attempt to build a 1/25 scale model of the Washington Momument by lashing staves together. We were told to not make things easy. Ray's biggest observation was that the boys, when they started lashing things together, never double lashed the staves, so when they tried to raise thier structures, the structure immediately collapsed.

Maybe E is onto something here about skills weekends.

BW,

You are right, I should have phrased that as "a signifcant number of people in todays society....". But several of the responses at the start of this thread and the one it was spun from have appeared to have taken this stance.

And yes you are right, several people on this thread have take a moral stance, and several more via PM's have agreed, but have been reluctant to voice their opinions openly and be slapped down.

ASM59,

Thanks for the PM.

In another PM received,

"I don't think Lay, Skilling, and the Enron group would be considered liberals, also the vast number of Evangelists who have been caught in a variety of sexual indiscretions I don't think consider themselves liberals either. I don't think a liberal or for that matter a conservative way of thinking has anything to with promoting a disregard for rules. These are people with either way of thinking that are just greedy, selfish, or arrogant and don't believe the "rules" apply for them. But if you want to be honest yourself it has nothing to do whether you whether you are more conservative then me or not that will indicate if you or I are more likely to follow the rules."

"The rules don't apply to them/me". Let's go back 40 years, make that 50 (I'm losing track of time). 50 years back you might have had those people, but they were far and few, and society usually dealt out a fair justice. Then came the 60's and 70's, "PEACE NOT WAR", "MAKE LOVE", etc. The started the slow societal degredation of moral whether it be sexual, religious, etc. over the next 40 years, until we have what we have today.

Do you mean to tell me that the free loving people of the 60's were conservative and not liberal in their thinking? Most of the CEO's and people in power of the companies that you cited above, and the Evangelist that got caught with their you know what in the proverbial cookie jar were in college during this period. They may state that they are supposed conservatives, but their actions have spoken loud and clear to their true moral values and philosophy that they picked up in the 60's and 70's. Conservative, I think not! Moral is Moral. Immoral is immoral. No two ways about it.

DE sleeping with his fiance in a cabin at a Scouting event on Scouting property, is against the rule. Whether today or 40 years ago is still considered by most as immoral. But with the dumbing down of today's society and today's morals, everyone seems to want to turn a blind eye and pretend it didn't happen because society has become lackadaisical, and scared to stand up for what is right and moral. So much for what our Scouts are being taught today about moral obligations.

Give me a few seconds to get the flame retardent suit on. Okay, I'm ready, let's have at it.

Smitty,

It's nice to see your posts starting to roll in. Welcome from another Westarker.

"A little variety in their patrol makeup is ok as they get to work with some other guys...", yeah, especially with all those provisional scouts we have sent you over the years for SPL2B, etc.

By the way, are you going to camperall, and could you accommodate a couple of provisionals?.

ASM915

Lisa,

I would at least start stashing away a nest egg to cover the cost. Our price as of now is $1500. You are only a few hours north os us. I would plan on $2000 - 2500. If that ends up on the high side, then he has some spending money. If he doesn't get chosen, then there is a nice nest egg for some other adventure.

Lisa,

Who at ouncil did you talk with? I would be calling the FD or SE and asking what is happening. Maybe we are spoiled in our Council, but they had the adult leaders picked back last winter. The youth registration was started in March, at least at the Council level, and just filled up in August and has a waiting list. We just received a Council packet about registering Dan online two weels ago.

As asked posts,

IS THERE A MORALITY CLAUSE in the DE's contract? Do Councils and or National have one as part of the Professionals contract?

Many companies and schools have them. If they are violated, your toast. I just read an article where some young high school art teacher on the side posed seminude. The pictures were tasteful. Everything was covered by arms, hands etc. so nothing was exposed. The students somehow came across the pictures. Toast and gone. She's not teaching at that system now.

I'm just curious, since BSA deals with youth whether there is one in place.