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Posts posted by ASM915

  1. Baden,

    Fear mongerer??? Who me??? Nooo!!!


    What was the little item I caught on the news about NYC last night? Something about thwarting a planned terrorist attack? WOW!!! Just because the supposed terrorist are stupid now, doesn't mean the next one will be.


    I like to lay on the sand and get a nice tan, not hide my head in it like an ostrich. Ostrich feathers would make for some interesting regalia. Next time you feel a few tweaks of pain on your backside, don't worry about pulling your head up out of the sand to what's happening. It's just me plucking a couple of feathers to add to my regalia. LOL


    We had someone ramblimg on at work last spring about something was happening in the fall. Didn't know what, but it was coming. And it did.



  2. Baden,

    How many Hispanics have the BP buried along the southern border, after shooting them? I'm sure they attempt to deescalate, then restrain and detain before reverting to deadly force. You shoot only to protect yourself and others, which I'm sure is what they are teaching the kids down there.


    I didn't know that you liked to impersonate the French. I'll send you one of my thermarest pads to use, so you are a little more comfy when you lay down and surrender instead of fight, when the new US Talih's come knocking at your door.

  3. IT,

    Scoutldr is correct. Run everything through the SE.


    Who built the original scout house? We have a scout house in our local community park that has been there for close to sixty years. The Rortarians as a WWII memorial, to be used fro only scouting activities. A few times the city has toyed with razing it. But oe of the Rotarians who was very active on the troop commity always shows up with the original documents, reminding the city council of the terms and agreements, and do they really want to tear down a war memorial. So far it has worked for now.


    Maybe if you offer to fix up the scout house on the property with donated goods, maybe your friend will let your troop use the property with no strings attached, including no contract. No money out of your pocket, service project or MB requirements knocked off for the boys, maybe a nice Eagle project. Possibly a Win/Win situation.


    Good luck.


  4. fg,

    Point well taken. And in some respects I agree.


    Maybe OA's NEC philosophy is to limit the adult membership even more then what they do now, to make sure us old geezers don't overrun the young ones. The 50:1 per Troop only works to a point.


    Our District has 17 Troops, which means 17-20 adults per year, plus the District nomination. If the SM does his job correctly, and only places the scouts on the ballot who wish to become involved and participate, in time, the adults could catch up. I know we had 4 Troops sign off on elections this year, and a few others that only elected one candidate.


    Then, how many adults are Ordealed, only to vanish with thier son, never to show up at Lodge and Chapter functions? They don't have to be in OA to support the troop. Yes it's nice for Lodge numbers, but can reek havoc on Brotherhood conversion numbers the next year for QL.


    Also would you want the trash-man advising the treasurer on Lodge finances? Maybe, if he also doubles as a tax preparer on the side. I think the Lodge takes a look to make sure that they are getting an adult that can be a role model. I think that they may also know who in the Council are problem children at the Council and District levels, and are very careful when their consider whether this person will also be a problem for the Lodge, and should be allowed membership.


    Maybe I'm way off base here. Unfortunately, not all those in Scouts are scoutlike.

  5. Ahhh guys,

    You left out the best part, using the pig for the Thursday afternoon "Greased Pig" contest with Pink Floyds "When Pigs Fly" playing over the camp PA system. Just make sure you don't bruise Porky before dinner.


    Heck, give Porky a playmate or two. then you can line the heads up on posts or pikes along the path, like my wifes family use to do on butchering day.


    Do I hear OA Lodge fundraiser here? August Pig Roast!!!

    Our Lodge has a Ox Roast the fouth Saturday of August. Why don't you all come camping?

  6. Penn,

    Just finished the plans for barricading the camp entrances. No one allowed to enter. Try and be staring down the barrel of a BB gun.

    How soon can you be here? Don't forget the NVG's.

    I'll see your S1999, and raise you 1 Wookie and 2 Pharangies.


    STOCK TIP!!! Can we all say Purell?


    Last summer in July, our Council camp went into silent camp wide emergency in mid-July for an outbreak of stomach flu. Had about 30-40 sent out of camp, or left on their own (10 to EDs and STAT CARES). The upper level camp staff were making rounds from about 8:00 PM until well after midnight, informing the troop leaders of the situation. There were around 600 in camp. Staff was also out well after midnight sterilizing the shower houses and latrines, as well as installing Purell stations at all the campsites, and managed to stop the spread.


    Our troop always stays way out in Outpost on the far side of the lake. We lovingly posted "NO TRESPASSING - Trespassers will be made to sit through 4 hours of campsongs!!!" signs, then a few days later, "QUARRENTINE - ENTER AT OWN RISK" signs. Kept everyone out except our darned camp commissioner. Oh well, we tried.

  7. SctDad,

    Have you thought about being a merit badge counselor for Indian Lore?


    I have a close friend who is Delaware, and travels across the US and Canada teaching Native Culture. She can put you in contact with supply companies that the rest of us have never heard of, for regalia supplies, and at more reasonable pricing.


    She can also put you in contact with Native people in your area that you can use as consultants. If you are interested, PM me.


    Also, be careful which Native figures you might promote as prominent Native role model. Do your homework carefully. We had someone create a ceremony around someone who they thought was a prominent chief, and good role model, only to find out that he assassinated Sitting Bull. Not the role model they thought, and wanted.

  8. Rick,

    We have a couple adults with OSA. They bring their cpap's with them, and either sleep in one of the buildings, or in the handicapped accessable campsite which has electricity for their machines. Go ahead and do it.


    Our adults members are very willing to help the boys when and where needed. But we're usually scouting things out for new projects, drinking coffee, trading patches, drinking coffee, fighting over patch history, drinking coffee, playing Euchre, drinking coffee, helping in the kitchen, drinking coffee and nibbling, holding an impromptu advisors meeting, trying to find the restroom real fast because of drinking all that coffee.....

  9. 72,

    Check with COuncil. Somewhere in your area there is a regional repository for your areas scouting history. Check out the local universities' archive departments. Ours is the Univ. Of Akron. They only had 1 box on my council, but we found out the date of our troops charter date, adding an additional 40 years to our troop.


    There were letters dating back to 1915, along with al the merger letters that followed over the years.


    Our COuncil, The Buckeye Council in Ohio, Published a Council history

    back in 1981, but nothing since then.


    Good luck.

  10. Rayburn,

    A couple thoughts on your question.


    The Chapter election team should have asked the SM if he had any adult nominations. It is part their job to educate and inform the adult leadership (thing change) as well as your scouts about the OA when they come and hold your Troop's elections. If they don't/didn't ask, they are sherking their responsibilities.


    Maybe the SM and CC never gave it a thought that any of the Troop's adults have the time or interest in joining the OA. Maybe all it would take is asking "Is the Troop nominating any adults this year for OA?" The response may be, " Didn't know you were interested or had the time. Here's the form. Fill it out and knock yourself out."


    The adult nomination forms are turned ito the Lodge. The Lodge then looks at see if this adult has any specific skills sets that the Lodge is in need of. These can range from simple bodies available to drive the scouts to the Lodge /Chapetr events, to people with artistic or craft or historical backgrounds that can teach native traditions to the ceremony teams and other interested scouts, to professionals that can advise the LEC on finances, logistics, and other management skills it takes to run a Lodge. The Lodge Executive Committee ultimately decides which adults continue on to Ordeal. In our Lodge, It is unusual that an adult is not sent on to Ordeal. There are always plenty of positions that need filled, and boys needing advised.


    God luck.



    Eric Prather

    Bicentennial Eagle

    ASM Troop 915

    Canal Fulton, Ohio

    Westark Chapter Advisor

    Buckeye Council

  11. Frank,

    The SM is not involved with becoming Brotherhood.


    To get your youth excited about OA, delegate a Troop Representative. He needs to attend the Chapter meetings, so he can bring back information about Lodge activities and events, then he can talk up the Lodge and OA to the rest of the scouts. Do you attend the RT's regularly? If so, the Rep. now has a ride to his meeting. That is why a lot of Lodges have set up their chapter meetings to coincide with RT, so the members can't use "I don't have a ride to the meeting".


    Nominate an adult each year over the next couple of years, that are willing to participate in OA, and then help promote OA along with the troop Rep.


    For Brotherhood, our Lodge runs a Brotherhood project and ceremony at both Ordeals, as well as each Wednesday afternoon, at summer camp. Our Section also runs a conversion at Conclave every spring.


    Let your boys in on the fact that they can travel to Philmont, Northern Tier, and Sea Base as OA members at less then half the cost of the regular contingencies, for two weeks, one of service, one of having fun.

  12. mn_scout,

    I know where you are coming from. OA is to promote camping as one of it's primary objectives.


    As Calico cites, it states "include one, but no more then one long term camp, consisting of 6 consecutive days and 5 concecutive nights" is giving the definition of long term camping. Just like the 50 Miler, "at least 5 consecutive nights camping". No where does it state, no more or no less then 5 nights, in which case would limit it to only 5 nights. No scouts earning 50 Milers at Philmont if you use this criteria.


    Same for OA. No less then 5 nights and 6 days of camping and programing. More is fine. Getting to Philmont requires several camping experiences, so is a moot exapmle. Now you take a older youth with previous camping experiance, that joins in the late winter, makes the next three campouts (6 nights), and then heads to Philmont (20 nights), yes I would count his 9 at Philmont


    Now a scout deciding to do two tours at summer camp in one summer, yes only one counts for long term camping.


    Now if we really want to throw a monkey wrench into interpretation,

    does the scout have to be in BSA for two years to be elgible? The statements states "camping during the two years-period prior to elections". It doesn't say "the scout has to have two years in scouting, and 15 nights of camping within the 2 years-period prior to the elections.



  13. B,

    Youthful legal argumentation eh. Look where it's got you now. Bet she's proud now, even if she wasn't happy about it then.


    Most teens no matter how diplomatic they try to be, would probably come off as wisea**es. But that isn't every teen. Boys will be boys. They will be ornery, sometimes hard to control, and loud. Not to side with Summer's son, but does all the above still warrant an adult leader popping off expletives that we would be calling the boys out for using, and accusing them of being unscoutlike in their behavior. By the way, where was the ASM if his scouts were being so noisy as to keep another campsite awake? I sure he wasn't sleeping to well himself, if this was really the situation. If he was, what is his secret? I want to know so I can sleep so well too. LOL



    Devil's Advocate here for B's sake, nothing personal.

    Maybe Summer's son is a loudmouthed obnoxious lazya**, and comes off as the proverbial smarta**, and doesn't care how he comes off or what he says in front of the adults. Maybe the ASM felt he had every reason to act like he did, and to call the SM about this perceived situation and scout. Does that still justify an ASM for popping off expletives at the scouts at any time, 3:00PM or 3:00AM?


    In this apparent situation, even if Summer's son had planned on approaching the SM about the language, the SM beat him to calling a meeting about the situation in question. So, now it doesn't matter when the boy approaches the SM about the ASM's behavior, the boy will always be perceived as a vengeful little smarta** brat trying to get back at the SM and ASM for being called out in the first place, instead of a scout bringing a true concern to the SM's attention? B?



    Don't tell me that because of the number of years working in the system, and the high percentage of teens that are smart-mouthed little wisea**es that do appearing before the Judge and you, that you have hardened, and now receive all teens, scouts and others as smart mouthed wisea**es??? LOL.


    Now then again, maybe the scout should have confided in another adult leader involved in the troop, about his concerns over the ASM's reaction to the situation, who can then approach a SM about such situations.

    So much for teaching responsibility and leadership, when a scout has to use a mediary to approach SM's about adult leadership concerns, or suggestions, because he might be taken as a wisea**.

  14. Summer,

    It sounds like you and your son have things well in hand. It should be smooth sailing from here on in. Good luck to him. Been there and through the out to get you committee member (CM). Thank God it was just one CM, and didn't go to far. At least your son has a valid reason for an appeal, unlike others who know if they yell loud enough, National will give in. His Eagle won't be cheapened because of the appeal.



    Maybe this troops leadership has had a history of running ripshod over the boys without beig questioned. Mabe they're not use to a scout holding his ground, and questioning how they have been handling and running things in the past. If that's the case, it doesn't matter how diplomatic the scout is, they'll round up the wagons to hold onto what they have, and use any means to discredit the questioner.


    Hijack On.


    Standing between the candle and the light, I use to stand between the smudgepots and the dark walls of the Manatoc quarry. I want my GTC Grey Council CPS patch. LOL.

    Hijack Off.


  15. SctDad,

    Our Chapter went to a climbing gym one night over Xmas break. the members that attended loved it. Council is offering up a white water trip this July. I see a large number of OA members attending. Not cheap, but all meals are provided.


    Canoeing, kayaking & biking are other options. Or the dreaded Laser Quest. Just think of the person your pointing and shooting at as a big buck. Promote a picnic/swim this summer.


    Go indoors for a change. Have a lock-in gaming night. NOAC is having Wii competitions this year.


    If the guys are interested in dance, how far is the nearest Native reservation? Set up a trip to there. Offer to do a community service for one afternoon in exchange for the elders, if they would be willing, to talk with and teach your members, dance, customs, and how to make some real nice regalia to boot.

  16. Scott,

    If the team is worth their weight in gold, most of the problems won't happen.

    As for popularity contests, let the election team leader know before hand if this is a concern. We had this come up last year. I informed the ET leader before the election. He drilled it into the scouts heads that it wasn't a popularity contest, and that a scout, special need or otherwise, that met the qualifications and showed scout spirit should be elected. That speech managed to get the scout we wanted in OA elected, probably the only scout in our troop that is willing to not just wear the flap, but be involved in OA. No adult interference in the election.


    An adult advisor shoiuld be present, if nothing more then for moral support for the ET leader who may have to put a SM in his place for trying to manipulate things.

  17. kahits,

    I'm there with you. I'm our CA, and trying to rebuild the Chapter also.


    As to your situation, did the team have another adult in attendence since you were not there? Or was it just a group of older youth members conducting the election?


    I've been fortunate to have three other adults willing to split up the election team duties with me, so one person isn't going crazy trying to get the election teams to all the elections. That was one thing that the previous two CA's and I agreed upon. This way the scouts aren't there by themselves, in case we have a SM try to blindside them with some BS.


    Does your team still have the names of the two that the SM supposedly disqualified? If not, can they get the names? If they do, I would be calling the SM informing him that since he neglected to keep these two off the ballot, and they were elcted, that they will be tapped out with the one he let go through. Just tell him that he had the option to keep these two off the ballot, and didn't. Now it is to late. What is done, is done.


    All four of us leaders put a stop to it at the election if we have a SM try to pull this on the team. The only time the leaders may let something slip, is if the SM asks if he can have the newly crossed over scouts busy doing something else after they see the video, at the time of the actual election, especially if the newbies are less then 2 months in the troop. It would be nice if National would put a stipulation that a voting scout needed to be in Boy Scouts 6 months to vote on OA candidates. This way they would be in long enough to be a little familiar with the scouts on the ballot. This would also solve the issue of brand new scouts voting on something that they no nothing about until the following years elections.


    As for fudging the numbers by one vote, wouldn't go there. Forget the three that missed by one vote, and stick to your guns on the two that the SM is trying to shaft. These two are probably young, and will be around longer the then 3 16y/o's that would probably bail within a year.


    I would prefer the older ones, but not by manipulating the results.


    If you can build the Chapter up with younger ones that want to be involved, and make it fun for them while your at it, hopefully they will stay around and become good Chiefs and VCs as they age a little. Right now I'm working with a Chief and two VC's that are 14 and under, and one VC who is 18 and special needs. They do a great job considering. I've heard one of our Lodge VCs make the comment that "My Chapter Chief is only 13. How did that happen?" I can't say to much, he has helped out with the younger guys with some of the election. But I don't see him at anything but Lodge activities.


    Don't give OA a bad name by playing Chicago politics. Good luck.

  18. Summer,

    If your son's SM and leadership is similar to ours, depending on the size of your town and school system, I'll bet the SM hears a lot through the grapevine. Or he may give the coaches, band and choir directors, teachers, etc, that he knows personally, and that a Scout is in contact with, a call and ask how the Scout is doing in school and his other activities. Or he may ask older Scouts how another Scout is doing around school, or how he acts outside of Scouts and school. Don't forget about Myspace and Facebook. They have been the demise of many teens' character.


    Several of our Committee Members' wives are teachers or secretaries at the local or parochial schools in our town. Plus some of the dads are coaches. Talk about tight little circles. Believe me, if the SM is worth his weight in gold, he has his network and knows what his Scouts are doing, whether they or their parents realize it or not.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

  19. 92,

    Just read your post after I sent you the PM. Sorry for stealing the thunder. We'll have to get together at NOAC. I'll return it then.


    I'm sure the committee will recognize DAC (in uniform would be nice), but I bet they would be going crazy trying to figure out who WilVick's NESA attorney (in uniform) is. they could both stand up, one stating he is there to represent the District, and the other staing he is there representing the NESA and the scout. I'ld love to be a fly on the wall in that room.


    Trouble causer, me? NOOOO, not really. Honestly! I just don't like Scouts getting railroaded over BS, and think of nice, polite, and diplomatic ways to put the egotistical wannabe leaders in their place.

  20. Ed,

    I know that the letters aren't mandatory. I'll bet that troop would sit there and try to argue that point way beyond this young man's time frame, achieving what the committee seems to have set out to do.



    I would be surprised if the committee meeting would take more then an hour, especially if the committee has already made up it's mind to back the SM. If the SM opens his mouth and addresses your son at the meeting, when the SM is finished, have your son inform the SM that your son is using this as his SM conference, hand him the open book, and ask for a signature.


    I'm sure that the DAC would be willing to accept a call from your son that evening until around 10:00PM. Who knows, maybe the DAC will start the process right then and there, and ask to talk with the SM and CC.


    Wouldn't it be interesting if the DAC attended the meeting as a spectator. Talk about shaking up the SM and Committee. He could then stands up at the end of the meeting and inform the committee that he is starting the process while he is there and interviews the SM, CC and your son on the spot, and then ask the committee for a copy the boys records. Eagle92, ever seen a SM instantly turn the color of his uniform? LOL.


    Summer, tell your son I wish him the best. Things will turn out alright for him.


    Also remember, when this is all over, talk with the Institutional Representative (the head of your chartering organization). Most stay way in the background, and don't really know what goes on at the troop/pack level, unless if they are really involved. They may take a look at the troop's leadership, and decide to make some changes if this situation is a recurrent problem. They have the power to make any changes that they deem necessary with the leadership, not the SM or Committee Chair.


  21. Ms Summer,

    Today either you or your son contact the DAC to inform him of the April 13th meeting. Ask him if he would be willing to except the letters of recommendation for your son, so there will be no further possibilities of delay tactics by your son's troop committee. Also ask the DAC if he minds if your son calls him right after the meeting to inform him of the outcome, and request the appeal be started if need be.


    At the meeting, if the committee backs the SM and tables the application, have your son:

    1) Ask for the reasons in writing.

    2) Inform the committee that he needs to make an important call immediately due to time constraints. Have him then pull out his cell phone in front of the committee, and call the DAC informing the DAC of the outcome, and ask that the appeal process be started the next day in his behalf.


    This will show the committee that your son is responsible, knows and understands the appeals process, and is no longer going to put up with the committee's delaying tactics. I wouldn't be suprised if this shakes up the committee a bit. They will not be expecting a Scout to be this prepared at this point, and at this time, to immediately start the appeals process right in front of them, by having the DAC's phone number handy, and taking the initiative to call the DAC right then and there. They just might reconsider what they are doing, and their decision. It may also make the committee think twice before trying to pull this over on another Scout.


    If everythings goes good for your son at the meeting, just have your son walk up to the Eagle advisor and hand him the sealed envelope from the DAC with his sealed letters of recommendations in it. Again showing what Being Prepared is all about.

  22. Scott,

    Check the Council's archives.


    Our Council/ OA Lodge actually had a nice leather bound book on our history published back in the early 90's. The book was a wealth of information. We found out our town chartered the first Cub Pack in the Council back in the 30's, and that I was aquainted with the first Cubmaster years later in the 80's.


    Regional Scouting Archives.


    Also ask Council where the Regional Scouting Archives for your area is located. Our's is at a local University. I asked my DE if she knew of any oldtimers from the District who could help me with a troop history. She had come across a site on the web by accident, and gave me the address. It turned out the be the archives department of my alma mater. It turned out the university housed the Regional Scouting Archives for our area of Ohio. Our Council's file was not big, one box with seven folders, but i found out our Troop had been charted and in existance from 1921, not the late 50's as thought by the locals.


    Good luck.

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