ASM915

All I can say is nepatism, passed down from dad. Mom is/was the Crew advisor.

Lisa, good point. I sure hope so.

What is the general concensus on a single leader with an out-of-wedlock child?

Just happened in our Council, 22 or 23 year old single female SM who just recently had a child. The CO was a religious based organization, not to active with their troop, didn't know about the SM.

Some parents complaind to the DE, who approached the CO. Needless to say, there have been leadership changes.

Lisa,9b 2+4. Your talking a 2-3 hour hike with packs and a 2 hour canoe ride. What scout doesn't like canoeing? Set up a camp out where they backpack 4-5 miles up to the livery and canoe the 7 miler which usually takes 3 hours. Have lunch before hitting the river. Incorporate 9c into the event. Have a leader be at the livery with a vehicle to put the packs in, so you don't have to take them in the canoes.

By the way, which camp are you using for summer camp?

moxie is correct in that the CO technically owns everything, if the Troop Committee doesn't take proper precautions.

Now I may be wrong, but I have heard of Troops/Packs that have made up contracts with their CO's as to who owns what, what is the CO's and what belongs to the Troop period. That way the CO can't get their hands on Troop/Pack monies from fundraising, dues, etc. Also, if the Troop came into the agreement with equipment, that the equipment belongs to the Troop, not the CO.

moxie, who bought the tents? Was the money from the Troop fundraisers and dues, or did the CO spring for them? If it was the Troop's, the CO made off like bandits, no pun intended. If it was the CO's money, you'd at least think them would be willing to help a little, unless the parting was not on good terms.

MOM, the 3 VFW WB scholarships are for VFW members involved with the Troop as leaders or Comm. Members, if I remember correctly.

Ek, about 6 years ago, our Troop and the CO, a Catholic church had a falling out over who was going to pay for the recharter and adult leaders membership fees. Th church had always paid before, but had a new priest. The priest also wanted all the leaders to go through a Diocesan YP background check, at the leaders' expense, fingerprinting and the whole nine yards. Now the church paid for it's CCD teachers, people involved with the Youth Group, but refused to pay for the Troop leaders.

The Troop must have had a signed agreement with the church as stated above, because when the then SM talked with the VFW and the VFW offered to become CO, everything, accounts, equipment and Troop numbers changed hands. Then again the Troop had been in town over 70 years, and maybe the priest saw the wisdom in not bringing bad PR to the church by insisting on keeping things the church had not help buy.

Good luck.

Typos, Typos Typos.(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Here a posting Gonzo came,

To save this thread from shame.

Should it come to a timely end?

Or to others will we it continue to send,

and continue this rhyming game?

fox,

No to your question. The SM is just along for the ride. It is the Scouts COH, not the SM's. As asked and stated in another thread, the SM doesn't have to be the person actually handing out the Eagle Medal to the Scout, it can be whom ever the Scout wants.

Now if there is something that would questionably be in bad taste in the ceremony, then I think it's advisable to have a sit down, and discuss the potential problem and a possible alternative, but ultimately it is up to the Scout.

I know my sons COH being held at summer camp this summer, might raise a few eyebrows. The Council's 80 year camp honors program is steep in political incorrectness and occasionally offensive to the Native community. If the COH goes off as planned, there will be Tribal Elders present (some from as far as Canada), possible singers (drummers), probably a smudging (Native blessing using incense made from sweet grass, sage and tobacco, sort of like incense of Frankincense and Mirth at Easter and Xmas Mass).

The former SM will be there and will probably have a problem, but will not let it interfere. The new SM will be more curious then anything. Council and Camp Staff, we'll have to wait and see.

My son plans on having the former SM (his SM) make the presentation. I'm not sure, but he might change his mind when he finds out who all is coming, and might pass that responsibility of to an Elder friend from the Tribe.

Good luck with the SM.

By thre way, what is the preceived problem?

Beavah,

I think the thread you were looking for is under the Politics Thread, fourth entry.

Eammonn,

You did everything you could. Do you know what has happened to the lad since his expulsion?

Beavah, I agree with the others that feel the SE failed.

Unfortunately someone should still contact CPS, if the school hasn't. The main reason being there has now been two incidents. How many more have possibly gone unreported? Not to call the lad a sexual predator, but he sure seems to be heading that direction. Someone needs to stop him from continuing.

Someone needs to look into his history. Usually an abuser/predator has a history of being abused by a predator, and the cycle needs to be stopped.

Eamonn, I'm sure you are well respected in your area. As stated in earlier posts by others, CPS keeps contacts anonymous. I think an anonymous little birdie needs to still drop them a line, in case it hasn't been done already, for the protection of the other children, and for the future protection of and to help the troubled lad.

Eric

gilski,

How far into Mexico are you talking? Just over the border or down aways? Whem is the project suppose to take place? Have you contacted your Council's or National's International Committee about the appropriate paperwork? Has your son and troop looked at the Internation Tour and Exchange Booklet? Is there a Mexican troop in the area that could host your troop, and assist in the project, become a sister troop. possibly lowering your son's costs?

I'm sure that WOSM would be interested in this project and how it turns out. They may be a good source for information.

I'ld like to be sitting on this EBOR to see the looks on their faces if your son pulls this off, 10 of his fellow Scouts, 4 or 5 adults, possibly who knows how many Mexican Scouts and leaders. Makes for some interesting possibilities.

OGE, don't go shuffling those feet yet.

gilski, If your troop does hook up with a Mexican troop, offer to host them sometime. Take a look at the International Activity Patch requirements.

If your son is mature, feels he can handle this size project and has the backing and support, let him go for it. It will make for one heck of a resume discussion.

Good luck to your son, and you leaders that will be helping.

Looks like a Venturer (forest green) wearing a neckerchief.

gilski,

Check with your Distict Advancement Chair. They should be able to give you some incite.

If I'm right (if I'm wrong, I'll be corrected fairly fast by the forum members), an Eagle Project can not be of a fundraising nature.

ie: raising funds and donating such funds to an organization for a building project for the homeless.

A scout may have to fundraise to finance the Eagle Project.

ie: The project is to take an area house, run a Habitat for Humanity project on the structure. Said project will cost $5000. The Scout and Troop may hold fundraisers to cover the costs of the materials that they will use for the project.

Since the fundraised monies are being used by the Scout to by materials that his project team will be using, and not just giving money to let say Habitat For Humanity to use as the organization wants, the fundraiser is legal.

SO for your Troops Eagle Project, the Troop may not be able to fork over funds out of the Troop's accounts for the tickets, but the Troop can definitely help the Scout fundraise the money for the tickets.

Some fundraising could be to approach local organizations (Lions, Rotary, K of C), Churches and local business' for donations or sponsorships. You might be surprised at how generous some business' may be, especially if it can be a tax write off.

Some churches might be willing to pass around the plate a second time, just for donations. Our youth group just did a "Hammer and Nails" project. They liked it so much that they want to do more. They started placing buckets at the church entrances for donations to raise money for the next project.

Let us know how things work out.

Eric

PS: Welcome to the forum.

Beav,

Don't count out the 18 year olds and the difficult parent.

I have a couple sauvy 18 y/o's that have had a lot more Conflict Resolution training, some on a international level before graduating high school, more then most of the adult leaders in our Council. One in particular I have no problem letting handle the difficult parent. He has a rare talent for defusing touch situations, and everone walks away laughing. They may be rare, but they are out there. Older leaders usually have more life experiences, but a lot of time are set in their ways, less flexable and don't always handle things well.

Oak Tree and jblake,

I like your approach, but there is one snag. Your Scouts that age up can only serve as ASM's until they turn 21 (MBC also). Then they can opt for a CM position.

So what does the SM do when one of these Scouts wants to stay in the Troop? You can't necesarily make them adult chaperones, ie: leaders in training.

How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period?

Just curious how you do it?

Eric(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Lisa,

My wife going to start wondering who this Lisa is that I keep chatting with. LOL

Our R&M Committee is trying to make some inroads back into the public schools. That's for another thread.

As for Charters, my son attends one for Special Needs Students with AS and ADD. It is tied to the public schools, but is run by a private management firm. Actually the person that started the Charter also runs the PMF. The PMF owns the buildings.

When he started the school (now schools, in Oh. and Fla.), he based a lot of the structure off of the Scouting philosophy, being an Eagle Scout himself. The schools start at 2nd grade and at present go to 11th grade, 12th being added next year.

The whole program is registered as a "Special Needs Troop". All eight Ohio schools are registered as the same Troop, all under the same Council. Go figure. At least one Councils numbers look good to National. The reason being given for doing it this way is that four of the schools are located in that Council and they have an awesome Spec. Needs program.

At least initially, most of the male staff and management were Eagle Scouts.

The Scouting program is incorporated into the school day. At the start of the day, the students stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance and the Scout Oath and Law, depending on which division they are in. Each class has 1.25 hours a week to use for a meeting time. They have an area Council member acting as SM that travels between the schools providing the program. He sets up three or four campouts a year, usually at parks that are centrally located. A parent must attend the campouts with the Scout to handle medications.

At this time, the second thru fifth graders are set up as Cubs and Webelos, the sixth thru eighth graders as Scouts and the ninth grade up as Venturers. The schools have a Outdoor Education Program at a Camp started by someone who has ties with the school. At least the OEP provides a good outdoor program for the kids. It even has a COPE course with a certified instructor, who runs a good High and Low Elements program.

Unfortunately, the program could be run a lot better then it is, but the management is not really open to suggestions. If they were, they could be running a model program that would be the envy of many a Councils. At least the OEP is great.

I'm not sure who the CO is, but I bet it is the management firm. If so, since they own the buildings, they can get away with it.

Barry,

Check out Buckeye Council's website. The SPL2B is buried in the Summercamp Leaders Guide under Programs.

If your not WB yet, this could be a good ticket item.

Eric

Barry,

I like the idea of paying the SPL's way.

Does your Council have an "SPL2B" program?

Our Council has one in place. The SPL has a chance to go to summer camp for a second week with another troop for $75 or $100 for the week. This way he can participate as a Scout, not a leader, and earn MB's or other certifications.

Now here's an idea. NYLT as a requirement to be SPL. Troop picks up half or al of NYLT costs. (At least our Council rebates $50 back as a campership for summer camp.) Then when the Scout becomes SPL, and does the SPL2B program, the Troop covers the SPL2B cost or only charges the SPL the adult rate for summer camp since he will be to busy leading to do other things. Of course if budget allows.

Lisa,

In the past our Troop has had the Scout pay up front ($150), and then reimbursed him $50. The Council also credits $50 back to him for his summercamp fees. This way the Scout/family only pays $50 out of pocket in the long run.

We have trouble interesting our Scouts in NYLT.

This year we had one that is very interested. He is a junior and is the SPL. He is the type of Scout that follows through on things. Since he is attending NYLT and I know he won't back out, I talked with the new SM about covering the whole cost. Yesterday, I handed Council a check for $150.

Yes, I feel troops should cover part or all of the cost, depending on finances and the number of Scouts attending. Reimbursement is probably the way to go. That way the Troop doesn't get burned if someone backs out at the last minute, except for extenuating circumstances.

At least our Council also see the benefit to them, as well as the Troop, and helps out with the Campership.

Who is your CO? Ours is the VFW. Does the CO donate funds to your Troop, and if so can they help with the cost?

Eric

Lisa,

Does your Guard buddy have a friend that has his own plane or access to one at the county airfield?

We tried to set up a weekend campout that ended at an small airport on Sunday. The former SM had a friend that held his private license. The original plan was was for him to take 3 Scouts and a leader up for 15 minute flights, fulfilling one of the MB requirements. One possible complication is you never know what Mother Nature will do to your plans. We had scattered clouds with a low ceiling, effective grounding our activity for the day. Two nice things that helped that day were, 1) the area Medivac Flight Team had a chopper stationed at the field (pilot let the scouts lok through the bird), and a Guard Blackhawk landed with a 2 or 3 star onboard flying in for some pep talk to some Iran bound boys. The Scouts had a chance to check out the BH and talk with the Pilot and Flight Engineer fulfilling another requirement.

As for the Aviation Tour permit, work at getting it filled out 2-3 months ahead of time. The form requests a lot of information on insurance, the type of aircraft and the pilots credentials. Also BSA has a seperate Aviation Permission Slip that needs signed by the parents before any Scout can participate in any flight activities.

Depending on how far you're willing to drive, Wright Patterson Air Base in Dayton has a good Scouting program, with a historic trail, camping and the Air Museum. It makes for a nice weekend.

Wish you luck.

Eric

fg,

Do you have any more information on this retreat? I checked the DOW website, but was unable to find out any further info.

Does your Council or Diocese run retreats like this in Texas?

I sit on the Diocese of Youngstown's Committee on Catholic Scouting and am in a group of four who just started a Council level Committee on Catholic Scouting for the Buckeye Council. Our Diocese covers parts of three Councils, and our Council reaches into five or six different Dioceses in Ohio W. Virginia and Pa. which creates some unique problems with communication.

We're attempting to get space on the Diocese website for the Diocese committee and on the Council site for the our new committee so we can get information out to more people easier.

The few things that I am trying to get started are:

1)A retreat like the one in the article that is multi-faithed.

2)A retreat just for Catholic Scouts that can be tied to the Religious Emblems Award program.

3)Trying to form a contingency to go to NCYC in Columbus in Nov.

Any advice about the above that you or anyone else out there may have is welcome.

Eric(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Lisa,

The committee members in question, are either of them the parent of the scout that is supposedly having the school problem with the other boy with the issues?

If so, does this parent have a real concern, or is s/he just trying to keep the troubled scout out of their sons patrol?

Does the CM have a hidden agenda?

Does the SPL go to school with the two scouts in question, where he might know how the two of them really get along with each other?

Has there been problems between these two during Scouting Activities?

Everyone runs around screaming HIPPA, but if the Troop is going to have the SPL acting as the leader of the Scouts, why is the SPL not given the basic knowledge that these three Scouts have special needs, and then given some suggestions on how to deal with them, especially since he is at the top of the youth chain of command?

If the first two questions answer "YES", then the third needs to be looked into. If the third is "YES", then the CM's are definitely out of line.

If "NO" to the first three, then their concerns need to be aired to the SM, and they owe the SPL an apology.

If the SPL goes to school with these three SN Scouts and the other Scout in question, I'm sure he knows a lot more about what is really happening at school between them then the adults, unless the adults work for the system.

If there has been no confrontations at Scouting functions between the two in question, maybe the SPL feels that by having them in the same Patrol that maybe they can work at overcoming some of their differences, and actually in time become friends.

When my oldest son joined our Troop, his best friend at the time and another Scout had issues. Oil and vinegar didn't even come close to describing it. They had issues at school, Scouts and church. My son and the two served Mass together and was friends with both. The SM at the time purposefully put these two together every opportunity he had.

If one was SPL, the other was the ASPL. This way they had no choice but to work with each other. They both had issues. One being handled by the parents with what needed to be done, the other, if being handled, it was by a different route, and we still have Ego and control problems with him as an ASM. Needless to say, they learned to tolerate each other and how to work together for the betterment of the Troop. Unfortunately my son has distanced himself from his old friend, due to the control issues, and rarely talks with him.

As for HIPPA, I guarantee you, the SPL is not blind, and I'm quite sure knows that these three Scouts have issues. It is only right that he is informed, just like the adults, since he is their leader. How else is he suppose to hand situations with these three if he is not informed? I would go as far as informing the parents of these three, that for the Troop chain of command to work properly and effectively, that the PL thru the SPL need to be aware of their sons' collective issues. I would then request the parents permission to sit down with the PLC and inform them the best way to handle each of boys if he/they start acting inappropriately. Might make for a good intro for the Disability Awareness MB.

The key adult leaders and the different SPL's have always been made aware of how to handle my youngest with his behavioral handicaps. We just had a boy start attending meetings 4 weeks ago. He has the same issues as my youngest. Mom was concerned how he would be perceived by the other Scouts if and when he starts acting odd. I let her know that I had talked with her son, that he had informed me of his safe word that he uses if he feels that he is getting out of control, and that it had been passed on to the SM, the other ASM's and the SPL. The point is that the SPL is trusted to run the Troop, he also needs to be trusted with this special information.

Good Luck,

Eric(This message has been edited by ASM915)(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Drop the DRG, I don't know. Let's just make changes to it as suggested above. Allow the Athiests to declare what ever it is that they want and not exclude them from Scouts. Some of them are quite the outdoorsmen, just like the illiterate person in the earlier post. Everyone has something beneficial to add to the program.

Now let the howling continue.

"Duty to God" and "Reverence" today has become a JOKE in Scouting. How many of you actually talk with the Scouts about "Duty to God" and being "Reverent" as part of their advancement? Probably less then half, since a lot of SM's state that it is not their responsibility and they are not going to play Sunday School teacher.

So since we have Cit. in the Comm., Nation & World covering "Duty to Country", First Aid for "Helpful & "Help other people at all times", Phys. Fit. MB for Phys. Strong, Mentally Awake and Morally Straight", let's add a Religious Diversity MB as one of the required Eagle MB's to cover "Duty to God" and "Reverence". One of the requirements, Earn your Faith's Religious award (if they have one), if not, only then have a mandatory option. Cub's, Webelos and Venturers all have a religious element as a requirement for rank advancement in some form or another, so why not BS's? The non-religious can still take it if nothing more then a learning experience. Maybe they'll learn something, maybe not. That's not the point.

Enough said for now. We just start another heated thread in the near future and drive everyone crazy.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Bicentennial Eagle from Great Trail Council, Ohio.

Welcome '07. What did you do for your project?

Chuck,

Click over to the "Issues and Politics" forum abd read fgoodwin's thread "Scouting reaching out to Muslims". I found this by accident. I don't remember it popping up on "Todays Topics" around that time.

Might be helpful.

Gonzo,

There must have been a continental shift or some other anomaly putting Ohio farther south then Georgia. Went to the DC yesterday for the first time. Cost 45 dollah.

Think we should let them in on the rafting story? Second thought, nah.

Has anyone ever heard a final conclusion on what happened in "Tragedy in Virginia"?

Eric

How long?

18 in November,2004. District EBOR Feb, 2005 (ran quarterly). ADD SM had packet in April 2005, but forgot to tell us the packet had arrived until asked in SEPT, or Oct. 2005.

It's now May 2007. Son is very involved ASM. He finally floored us with "Maybe we can hold my ECOH in July at summercamp." Two years later.

He's is a Heroism Award recipient and knows Council isn't letting him off the hook when it comes to the National COH. He figured he might as well finally have his ECOH at the same time.

As for summercamp, he thought it might be nice for the NCH to be held in front of the camp, figuring it is rare if ever that other Scouts every see a Heroism or Lifesaving Award ever presented.