ASM915

jablake,

What is this young man planning for his Eagle Project? After Eagle, what's next?

Have you heard of the Scouting's Hornaday Conservation Awards? Unfortunately in our area, it seems to be a well kept secret that few people know little about. It's such a pity that the program is not promoted more.

Is he one of those Scouts that thrives and loves being in the outdoors?

If yes, steer him toward the Hornaday Awards program. Get him hooked up with a Hornaday advisor. Depending if he is interested and at what level of Hornaday he wants to achieve, this will keep him busy with one to four intense conservation projects (intensity level of four Eagle projects) over the next one and a half to three years. One of the projects can be used as his Eagle Project, another at BSA properties, such as camp. If he is creative, and as much of a go getter and leader as you say, he could probably orchestrate and run a couple if not all the projects simultaneously.

Get him involved with OA. If the Lodge is good, there will be plenty of opportunities and leadership there for him. When old enough, encourage him to apply for the OA High Adventure Work details. Hopefully after attending a couple of these at different High Adv. Post, this will wet his whistle and he'll want to go back for the regular Scouting programs. Encourage Jamboree participation when he meets the age requirements.

Get him involved as a CIT, then on camp staff, the on Jambo staff.

Think about International camp staff when he's the right age.

I'm envious. I wish We had a couple of Scouts like him in our Troop.

Please do me a couple of favor.

Listen to him.

Try his ideas, no matter how far fetched the ideas may seem to the adult leadership.

Give him some latitude to see what he might be able to do with the Troop.

KEEP HIM EXCITED!!

Boy, am I envious,

Eric

Rob,

Welcome to the Forum. Well said. I have a very simular family situation. Every one in the family is either ADD (myself and oldest son) or Bipolar (wife and youngest son, he's also falls in the High Functioning Autistic Specrum Disorder realm.)

Just had another Biplor boy join the Troop Mon. night. I'm interested in how you handle things. You can contact me at ericcprather@sbcglobal.net.

Lisa,

Sorry about that. Signing the card inplace of the SM, allowing the Scout to start coursework.

I don't think National would be to thrilled about us forging documents. LOL

Eric

I don't know if all Councils practice this, or of ot os just one of our Councils quirks.

According to our DAC, the ASM or a Committee Member also can sign a blue card. The only time we've done this is when the SM wasn't available at a meeting and the Scout needed a card before the next meeting, or when we were in transition between SM's where we weren't sure what the former SM was doing. He just short of stopped showing up with no notice. He was busy with worh, etc, and we ASM and CM's handled the troop until he finally came out that he no longer wanted to be SM.

The point being, Aloha, if the SM refuses to sign the card, it might not be nice, but you can try to get one of the ASM or CM's to sign it instead, especially if the SM is trying to prevent scouts from going outside of the troop, as a power thing.

Lisa, same thing when the SM refues to give the kid a name and sign the card. If you have to, go around him and file a complaint with the CO.

There is always a work-around.

Lisa,

Our District limits the MBC's to 3 MB's, except if someone councils for an uncommon MB, then maybe 4. They want the boys out there meeting and interacting with different adults.

Our Troop so far, will only cover Camping, Backpacking, Hiking and Cooking MB's introop. Sometimes it gets interesting when a knowledgeable Scout goes toe to toe with a Troop leader on a particular requirement when the leader is only use to doing something a certain way or is tunnel visioned.

Ie. Had one scout that used military issue BDU's for his clothing list for summer and winter camping. He was told that "You can't use those. You be to hot. You be to cold. Come back when the list is correct." MBC wouldn't listen to the reason why the BDU's were on the list because he had never used them. The next week the scout walked in with a folder full of Internet articles explaining carbon filament use in military issue clothing and how it acts to keep you warm or cool depending on the climate. Needless to say, the Troop MBC had to back down.

Same Scout with Native regalia and camping techniques. He uses actual furs for regalia and on occasion for bedding. Everyone thinks he's nuts when he appears dressed in furs and it in the 80's. Again, the fur is hollow and acts as a radiator drawing heat away in the summer and preserving it in the winter. It can be raining. Everyone else's tents will get wet, but if you camp with him, even with no tent, just pines for shelter, your dry.

He's only had trouble with two MBC's. The Troop MBC which rectified itself and the MBC asks for his advice now on occasion and one Eagle badge MBC.

Our Troop makes the Scouts go to different MBC's.

What I would like to see on our MBC list put out by our District is the MBC qualifications to do the MB, Professional in the field, not a Professional but years of experience in particular MB area, a hobbyist, or just an interest in the subject matter. That way we would be able to determine which MBC might be best for a particular Scout.

As for a SM saying "Can't do that badge, no councilor. Find another MB to work on."

String him up by his toes at the Pioneering MB site at next summercamp. If an adult, either parent or other leader, hears the SM say this to a Scout, they should tell the SM to get off his lazy @#$@$, call Council and find out who does do the MB in question. Yes the Scout may have a 20 or 40 mile one way trip on their hands, but if they really want to do it, the SM is suppose to be there to help and support them, not blow it off.

Jaime,

A future Venturer in the making, eh?

Chuck,

Why not come up with an adult sguare knot requirements for adults Scouters involved with Scouting in the Middle Eastern communities. If I'm correct, we already have one for Scouters involved with the Hispanic and I think either the Vietnamese or Southeast Asian communities.

Chuck,

How many other Packs or Troops in your District or Council have the same mix as yours?

Since there is probably a good mix of Hindi, Shii and Sunni Muslim, Christian, Jewish, possibly some Buddhist, and other Mid-Eastern religions, why not have a one day Cultural Jamboree. It can be as small as a Pack event, or as large as a Council event.

You can have activities and or informational sessions geared toward the Scouts and the adults.

They can teach eachother different games, songs and dances from their respective cultures.

Have storytellers there from each culture telling folktales and mythological stories. The Cubs might find it interesting how many of their own histories and mythological stories are very simular to the others there.

You can discuss cultural diversity and tolerance.

Have someone from the Council's Relations and Membership Committee's Religious Awards subcommittee have a booth or better yet a presentation on Scouting's Religious Awards program and the different awards that can be earned by the Cub's and Webelos, and how the parents can get involved as mentors and councilors. Do this at what ever level of activity you hold. There are so many parents and Cub leaders that have no idea what is offered and available out there for them and their Scouts. The Scouts can talk about an interesting item or their favorite part of their religion.

Have a dinner with food from all the different groups represented. Have a religious leader or parent from each group give, in English, a short prayer before the dinner, so the Scouts (and maybe some parents) can see that we are not all that different.

After dinner, have a campfire. Maybe start out by the leader light one candle and talk about how the one candle by itself glows, but the surrounding area is still dim. Then have the leader light the candle of the person next to them and so forth around the circle. When all the candles are lit, the leader then makes a statement about how now the whole area is a lot brighter now that all the candleas are lit. They can then somehow tie that in with how when one person tries to do something, how hard it may be, but when everyone, even from different cultures, religions and backgrounds work together, how easy and brighter things become. Close with an inter-religious prayer and a promise to be more tolerant of eachother.

Have a service project. Maybe collect funds that could go toward helping another National Scouting Organization out, like the Irani Scouting Movement. Have the Cubs make pictures of Cub activities and send them along to the other NSO.

This whole idea may allow the Cubs and leaders to qualify for Scouting's Internation Activities Patch.

Good luck. Let me know what you plan, when it is, and how it goes.

Eric

gwd,

Another thought. have you ever checked out Outward Bound. May be a bit pricey, but awesome climbing programs in the Carolinas and Georgia if I remember right.

Sorry gents, last night I had an Alzheimeric moment. I knew Lodge was wrong, but the mind just couldn't come up with Committee.

Venture Scouts, alright, their are not Crew members, their Venture Patrol members. Not the same thing, apologizes again.

OGE and Beavah,

Sorry I have to agree with John. Most of the leaders are the 16-20 year olds. If it were opened up to the Venturers, yea, not all 16-20 year olds would want to be involved, but you see adults there right beside the 12 and 13 year olds doing grub work. If the 16 to 20 crowd are interested, and yes I see a lot of 16 - 20 year olds be tapped out, they will be there along with the young ones.

OGE, as for "let's not mix them", if the Venturers have fulfilled all the equivalent requirements, and meet the age specifications, they are a part/division of Scouting, why not allow those that want to, to join if elected.

As for the ladies, they are suppose to be equals, but we are going to throw up barriers? As epalmer points out we already allow females into OA, albeit leaders. So why not the interested V girls. Again if they really want it, they will meet the requirements work along side the boys. Granted for Ordeal Weekend, the Council will have to have female advisers for the girls, but there will probably be female leaders going through Ordeal already. Thanks epalmer, I was going to make a comment about seeing females being tapped out, but I wanted to hold off until I made sure this wasn't just a local Council idiosyncrasy.

OGE, if the boys are to lazy to get up there and campaign/fight for the Crew or OA leadership positions, shame on them. If they think the position, Crew or OA, might be to much work and don't run for the position, or if they do, but half heartedly, again shame on them. Who knows, maybe the ambitious females that might run for an leader position might turn around some of the suffering Lodges. NO, I'M NOT A WOMEN. But since National instituted Venturing as a division of BSA and allowed our better halves in, and they're suppose to be equals, then let's not discriminate. Is this the reason National refuses to let Venturers hold elections, to keep the females out? I'll have to go back to my OA book and look it over carefully to see if the requirements actually say boys/men (oops, there go the female adult leaders), scouts or just elected candidates.

emb, when I stated "National Lodge (meant Committee) and Council, Council meant Irving, Texas.

As for Cub's being a division of BSA, come on gents, let's get real and not use that as an argument about clarification of divisions. Of course the little guys aren't going to meet FC, camping and age requirements. Venturers sure come damn close though. This analogy is like saying that because Little League (being a division of baseball, a strech, yes) ball players can't be called up to the Majors, therefore AA and AAA players can't be called up either, again because they are in a division of baseabll. Just because a walk-on may have never played LL, High School or College ball, doesn't mean he can't show up and kick some you know what all over the field if he's good.

Round 3 tomorrow, same time, same station.

Good night until then.(This message has been edited by ASM915)

CNY,

Thanks for the information. That is the way I thought it was meant to be, but I didn't want to read anything in to it and be wrong.

Dianna, Let us know how it goes with the SM.

Dianna,

Sorry. I'm not trying to hijack the thread. I have a minor clarification to my question for CNY. Then if I have to, I'll spin off a new thread.

CNY, when you start Venturing you earn a Bronze Award. Does this first BA count for the Gold requirement (double dipping), or do you need to earn one of the other BA's for your GA?

I read in another forum site that Crew members are not elegible for OA. I have some questions and thoughts.

If a Crew member use to be a Scout and had achieved 1ST Class, why is he not elegible for OA just because he is now a Crew member?

Are not Crew members allowed to work independently of the Scouting Program, on Star, Lifa and Eagle rank without being Troop members?

Is not the Venturing Program (and Venture Scouts) a division of Scouting just like the Varsity program and Varsity Scouts?

Why doesn't National Lodge set a requirement that Venturers that are not from Scout Troops, have to achieve the level of Outdoor Bronze Award or Ranger to be elected into OA. The Outdoor Bronze requirements pretty much meet all the camping and outdoor skill requirements that TF, SC and FC have to meet. Just make sure that the core requirements for Outdoor Bronze and acceptance into OA are First Aid, Land Nav., Cooking and LNT or Wilderness Survival to meet the camping reqirements. For the elective: Backpacking, Plants and Wildlife and Phys. Fitness. These would cover all the Scouting requirements except maybe the Flag requirements.

Does anyone see a reason that National Lodge and Council can not do this?

Sincerely,

The Kids of the BSA (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

DenZero,

How many troops do you have in your area?

Yes it is nice to have the same CO and COR for both, but not necesary.

Our Troop's CO is the VFW and the Pack's is the Methodist Church. Last week recruited the minister to the Troop Committee. He's a former SM.

If the Pack and Troop have different CO's, approaoch that Troop and any others in the area and see if they have adult leaders or parents that may be interested in helping at the Pack level. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. They need your Pack to keep their Troops afloat. With out the Pack, their future recruits drops.

I know that there are a few of us adults in our Troop that have been talking about getting involved with our feeder Pack, especially as Webelos leaders. This way we help the Pack, but also can start getting the Webelos in the right mind set (mold them a little) for the conversion to the Troop. We can help set up joint Troop/Pack activities.

Nothing says the help has to come from one Troop. Try to recruit help from a couple of Troops.

cb,

Contact Council and see if they have a Leave No Trace instructor. If yes, contact him/her. Have them check the LNT-L site (which they should have access to) and check out this weeks discussion on the MAZE GAME.

You set up a Maze using 36 inch black plastic making pathways (no dead ends). The Maze will have forks in it. At each fork, there will be a LNT situation with two options. You have to make a decision which way to go. Each way will show you what impact your choice made on the environment. With Cub, you can have pictures showing what to do, and what happens. One idea in reference to staying on and not straying off of paths would be to narrow the Maze, have 2 or 3 Kiddie Pools back to back. The Cubs will have no choice but to walk through the water. HEY, THEY'RE BOYS. THEY LOVE GETTING WET. Plus it will probably be warm out. Just Make sure that this is mentioned in the home-going information packet so the parents understand that their little ones will be getting wet. This can teach them how the area was before, and what might happen in the future.

Another idea we used the last two years:

I have a friend that is Native and does cultural awareness outreach education for who ever is interested. She teaches Native games, songs and skills for her time slot. At lunch time she tells Native stories. She dresses in tribal regalia. The cubs lover her.

Maybe someone on Council, at your local Historical Society or nearby University may no of someone who can help you with this idea.

Also see if your local county or state park system has a wildlife rehab. facility. They usually have permanent residents that they use as program animals. Some you can pet and hold. Some you can't. The parks are usually more then glad to come. This can be incorporated into the LNT principle of Respecting Wildlife.

I hope this helps.

Eric(This message has been edited by ASM915)

dianna,

Question 1)

Is the Crew an offshoot of the troop for the older scouts with the same CO as the troop, or is the Crew it's own entity with a different CO and not attached to the troop in any way?

If the Crew and the Troop are attached, there shouldn't be a problem using the requirements for dual purposes.

If the Crew and troop are not attached, the SM may feel he/the Troop is being gypped by your son being involved with a Crew fearing your son will spend more time there then with the Troop and that he is going to lose your son permanently to the Crew. I know a few Crews in our Council have instituted the rule that you must stay involved with you troop if you wish to be part of the Crew.

Question 2)

Was your son a member of the Crew and the Troop at the same time when he was earning the merit badges?

If yes, they count both in both programs. Usually the Venturing requirements are more rigorous then the merit badge requirements, so there shouldn't be a problem with them being used for the MB. A completed MB may not meet all of the Venturing requirements, therefore your son will have to finish completing the rest of the Venturing requirements for rank.

If no, then he may have to repeat requirements for the program that he is new to.

For Venturing POR, he may also use Den Chief, or an elected youth officer of a religious or school organization for Silver Award.

Crew 21, OGE or Beaveah, a question. For Silver and Gold it states "Earn one Venturing Bronze Award". Does this mean earn an additional Bronze Award after the first one for each of the next two ranks, or does the first one count for the next two?

Here's an idea to keep the new parents from interfering with the boy program.

Use the Adult Patrol. Free up an ASM and or other adult leader, or even a senior scout if one is available. For some of the open time, have these leaders run a troop Outdoor Leadership Skills program, especially for the green new parents that aren't use to camping. Not every new parent, even if they are use to camping, will know how to supervise (sorry, keep a watchful eye over) an ax yard. They may have only used a Coleman stove and have no experience with backpacking stoves, Camp Chef setups or Dutch Ovens. Have your YP officer cover YP. Cover First Aid. The list is endless and can be spread out over several camp outs. Keep them interested and busy for some of the time and then have coffee and BS part of the time. Hopefully this will keep them out of the boys hair, and teach/show them what Scouting is all about.

As for camping, we try to have all camping adults YP trained before going on a campout. Also CPR. Everyone is CPR trained except for the new crossovers, Scouts and adults alike. We're fortunate enough that we usually have at least an EMT if not a Medic on every campout. When a new scout joins, I try to get the parent to come onboard the Committee and start getting trained. If the parent is a camping type, then we try to educate them on how Scouting prefers to do things and why. If they have good ideas, we try to incorperate them if possible.

dS15 and Barry,

Interesting ideas.

Our Council WB is held every other year, over two weekends, a month apart, August and September. It would be interesting to see if WB and NYLT could be held together. I feel there would be enough staff to run both. Our Council is also fortunate enough to have two camps 20 miles apart. The NYLT is usually held at the older camp while the Staff week is held at the main camp.

The winter break would work with the older camp with indoor facilities being available, actually the main camp also. They could use the Webelos side of camp.

As for fall or spring break, sounds like a good idea, but I seriously doubt that we could get all of our school districts to coordinate being off the same week, unless it was state mandated. LOL. We cover 8 counties over two states.

The winter break is at least uniform. Maybe NYLT could be ran then for the Scouts planning on applying for camp staff and the summer for the rest.

Barry,

Have you ever come across the problem of yours or another Council scheduling NYLT/JLTC and Summercamp Staff Training week the same week? If so, any ideas on how to approach Council, and on a fix? Like I stated in an earlier post that is a problem here. I'm glad to see that our Council has kept our NYLT priced at the level that you had your scouts paying back when ever.

Hope to hear from you soon.

kb6,

"Every boy in my unit 1st class and above, 13yo or older attend. There's just no question."

How do you pull it off?

How do you get the scouts to buy in on it?, and the parents?, the rest of the troop leadership?

At tonights meeting, we the leaders, were having a long discussion on what we can do to improve the troop when it comes to older scouts stepping up and helping the younger scouts. We've had some issues lately. We have two 16 yo's (both 17 next week), one present every meeting (semi-special needs) and the other frequently. These two are alright. #1 has problems with some scouts taking him seriously, but he shows the most scout spirit and has been hired for camp staff this summer. #2 is going to NYLT this June.

Next come the two 15 1/2 y/o's. These two are an issue. One has a authority respect issue, maybe NYLT next year. The other has a follow the gang of one (the other 15y/o) mentality.

The last five are 3 11 y/o's, a 12 and a 13 y/o.

Tonight I made reference to your post, as well as the post about how some of the scouts had come back from NYLT and dropped something else to put Scouting higher on the priority list. They were wondering how you manage to enforce the NYLT deal.

The mother of the 13 y/o and the problem 15 y/o was present, waiting to pick up her boys (soccer mom/coach, marathon runner). First thing out of her mouth was a comment about only having 2 weeks a summer for family activities, because they were all so busy, two-a-days and what not. I gave the dates, the week after school is out, no two-a-days until July. "But he (the 15y/o) has summer school (so he can take an additional class in the school year).

The discussion died down with the suggestion that maybe we try to insitute your idea with the younger Scout's, that the troop will pay for tham to go to NYLT once they turn 13y/o, and that it would be a prerequesite for ASPL and SPL. If they opt not to go, they can be a Guide, Scribe etc., but not SPL or ASPL.

OGE,

"Do we let our children know it is okay to help others".YES, and then the national networks run todays breaking news at @ 1:00pm

Woman in New Jersey gets out of her car to help an elderly person across the intersection. Someone jacks the car with her child inside. AMBER ALERT makes breaking news, in OHIO at that!!

A fast history. Our Scout House is in one of our community parks. The park sits in a flood plain between a river and a canal towpath. The building is a WWII Memorial built by the Rotary in the 1950's and designated for Scouting use only. We get flooded 3-5 times a year when the floodgates up north are opened after heavy rains. The city just bought 33 acres for a future park in the next couple of years and will then turn the old park over to the county. The structure (made out of cinder block) has some foundation and wall crackes and someday will float away. We hose it out and clean it after each flood.

Tonight a friend (the Webelos II leader) stopped by for a minute. Talking with him on the phone later, he felt that the structure may be a major detractor when it came to our recruitment. The scouts like being in the park. He felt it might help if we looked for a new place, which has been discussed recently.

I'm thinking of approaching the park board to see if there is any possibility of the troop building a new Scout House (Green structure with solar panels tied to a dual-meter system for electricity, the power credits going to the city and park board to reduce thier monthly bill,ours usage is so low the city doesn't charge us; and heating either with the electrical system or with a wood pellet stove system.) at the future park site locating it next to a 1-2 acre wooded area with a deluvial pond. Parking only 10-20 yards away at the seniors center. The troop can be the land stewards for the wood and the pond. The local Pack could also use the new building possibly.

Fundraising: Approach our SO, the VFW, and the Rotary (since they erected the original building) about assisting with funding. The friend felt there if there was an article in the local paper, there were several older residents in the community that would donated to the cause, some of them with sizable contributions. I know my insurance company will match dollar for dollar up to $3500 since the troop is registered as a NPO. Two policies in the family ($7000 possible dollars). I know that the troop has to keep any fundraising to under $50,000 or we have to file at tax time.

Does anyone have experience and guidance with fundraising for this type of troop project?

Have any troops worked with matching grant proposals?

How have you gone about selling the committee on simular projects and fundraising?

Any ideas and suggestions will be apreciated.

Thanks in advance.

(This message has been edited by ASM915)

John,

I have a few more questions.

What do you consider a standard suburban township? Our township has a population just over 13,000 with a small city in the middle (makes up part of the townships pop.). Two major routes through town, both with a fair traffic flow.

Was the deli a family run business or a chain? We have a Subway in town.

As for races, the Towpath trail runs for ever, in all over 100 miles with only one section not open yet. Also running south aout of town on the other side of the river is another trail at least 5 miles with a middle trail head at the 2 mle marker that could be used for a loop. There might be 50 yards of roadway between the two trails at the midway trailhead. The township police or County park rangers have been pretty good about assisting with races and walks for charitable org.'s in the past.

John,

I have a few more questions.

What do you consider a standard suburban township? Our township has a population just over 13,000 with a small city in the middle (makes up part of the townships pop.). Two major routes through town, both with a fair traffic flow.

Was the deli a family run business or a chain? We have a Subway in town.

As for races, the Towpath trail runs for ever, in all over 100 miles with only one section not open yet. Also running south aout of town on the other side of the river is another trail at least 5 miles with a middle trail head at the 2 mle marker that could be used for a loop. There might be 50 yards of roadway between the two trails at the midway trailhead. The township police or County park rangers have been pretty good about assisting with races and walks for charitable org.'s in the past.

AMEM, BUGS!!

One of our Committee members is toying with the idea of dropping back to the Pack level to become a Webelos leader for just that reason.