ASM915

Unofficially 50% for the main troop and 70 % for POR, this sounds good.

My son and I (both ASM's) have been toying with presenting the same idea to the committee and the troop. We're 2 of the 4 main leaders.

The new SM has a lot of ideas for activities, almost to many to fit into a schedule. Luckily, he is with us on the idea.

I would like to see an unofficial attendance requirement. I agree with Acco. I would like to add to it that "If you are tied up in a sport, especially at the Varsity level, and you can't attend due to that sport/school activity, bring me a letter from the coach/ band director, etc, to that effect with a schedule attached." I've seen to many so-so scouts use the sport or other activity as an excuse for not showing up, knowing that their practice was over at 4 or 5 PM. If there are problems with grades, let me know. I might confirm it with your parents though.

I also let the Middle School and High Schoolers know that a lot of what they do in their classes can be used toward MB requirements if they think it out and plan accordingly.

Sometimes you still need to dangle a carrot to peak interest.

I would like to see our troop do a High Adventure trip every other year for the whole troop. On the off year have another trip for the scouts that meet certain requirements, 50% (maybe 70%) of the troop meetings, campouts, service projects, fundraisers. Bonus points for addition things, NYLT, Rel. Awards, Den Chiefing with the pack, being active with the Lodge or Chapter.

As my oldests HS Swim Coach use to say, "I know that you young adults have lives outside of the pool, at school, church, scouts, etc. I now that these will on occasion conflict with our schedule. That is why I have the COACHES AWARD. It is for those of you who make all the practices and meets, except when sick (needed to come from the parent). It is not to punish those of you that run into these conflicts but to award those of you who really make the effort to be here." My son never did receive the Coaches Award. One year was at an international youth peace forum, one year a national church youth convention, all four years blew off the Sat. practice for those that didn't go to an invitational for Klondike. Coach understood and Dave understood.

No reason we can't try the same thing. It's not a punishment, it's just awarding the scout that put forth the effort.

If you have a good program, they will participate.

Sorry for the ramble.

This weekend we're camping. Of coures there is a band function planned for Sat. We told the boys when it is over come on out anyway. There is know excuse not to. One of us four, whose son is involved is willing to drive them out. "See you about 5 PM. We hold dinner, can have some fun later and it will count toward Polar Bear."

(This message has been edited by ASM915)

Quite touching.

John & Eammon,

I stand by the body of my last post, but agree the voting as a bad idea. Wasn't thinking clearly when I tossed that in. 10 PM is nap time. I do better at this time of night being a long term nighter.

The first part of the last post is pretty much the same as you all are recommending.

Let the boys hold the interviews using either example.

Lisa, if the committee, CO and IH feels better with it, use #2. Let them narrow it down to the best two candidates. By sending them forward in the process, the Committee has conveyed their belief that either one will be a good choice.

Have the PLC sit down with a couple of mentors from the committee and run through:

How to hold an interview.

Appropriate Questions.

Inappropriate questions.

Proper Behavior.

After the PLC interview, have them sit down with the committee, the CC and IH and give their input.

Since the blessings were given prior to the interview by the Committee, the CO and the IH, being that either candidate was fine, let the boys feel that they were the real deciding factor in the process.

As stated in earlier posts,

They have seen them at their best,

Probably close to their worst,

How they act in front of the adult,

How they act away from the adults,

How they interact with the boys.

To deserve RESPECT, you need to show RESPECT.

We're going this weekend (big summercamp honors project weekend, last year 600 there on Sat). We'll have 10 scouts (4 brand new ones)and 5-7 scouters. The boys set the menu at tonights meeting.

Fri. snack - Hotdogs, cookies

Sat. breakfast - Green eggs and ham, milk and OJ.

lunch - provided by the camp, usually stew, P&J sandwiche

cookies ,again, and bug juice.

dinner - Chili, cornbread, a dutch oven potato concoction,

cherry cobbler

bedtime snack - green jello mixed with hot H2O in the Nalgenes

for the drink (HEY, IT'S ST. PATTIES DAY) and I

don't remember the rest.

Sun. breakfast - Oatmeal, cereal and bananas.

Being Good Turn Weekend we'll be troop cooking teaching the newbies how to use the equipment. Next month I think we'll do a cooking campout, patrols of course.

Lisa,

What a great concept. Two ideas here.

1) Have the PLC hold the interviews. Then have the PLC sit down as a whole with the Committee for a discussion on the candidates, pros and cons, why they like the one that they do over the other two.

Are these three all ASM's? Do they have a background as a scout?

the Committee is there to help the troop, but the boys run the troop and should have a major influence on the decision.

2)Have the Committe run the first round of interviews, then submit two names to the boys for the PLC interview. Again have all sit down for a dicussion and let the boys make the final decision.

I think it is great that the PLC is actually interested in wanting a say. Just make sure that they are not after the one who will be the least strict.

Maybe give the PLC two votes, the Committe one vote and the CO one vote. If there is a tie the outgoing SM is the tie breaker.

Please let me know how this all turns out. I'm really interested.

Our troop is infamous for the 11th hour Eagle. My son and two of his buddies kept up the tradition. At least they were involved with the troop. Since then we have had 4 more. Right mow we have 2 that are working on their projects as we speak or will be starting soon.One of these 2 has not been in a leadership capacity for 2-3 years. When he is around and is asked to step up, he claims he's paid his dues, doesn't need the position for the rank, let someone else have it who needs it. He plays soccer 12 months a year, the excuse for not being there.

The CC (former SM) calls these ghosts every 3-6 months to see whats up and to encourage them. He has also adviced the present SM and myself to push the Scouting Spirit ticket with them if they want their Eagle.

Actually I would rather have the older Life to Eagle then the younger ones. They're are more mature about the whole thing and usually have served their time, USUALLY.

Eammon, at least yours was involved at another Scouting level, a higher level other than that of the troop. Yes it counts, the service and spirit was there.

Brent,

In Council $210/ out of Council $240. If a down payment is by this Wed. deduct $30, If you are in Outpost ( the other side of the lake, a good 3/4+ mile hike to get to anything in main camp, knock off another $30 because you do your own cooking). "WHAT HAPPENS IN CALUMET, STAYS IN CALUMET." Camp staff liked that one last year at the opening campfire. Camp is usually at capacity except for the last week.

When Council ran into the financial snag during the audit, the one thing they were grateful for and made it known, was that the Summercamp program has always run in the black. They were glad that they didn't have to subsidize the program.

I'm fortunate enough to have a great DE (new to our District, but expierenced from the next one over). Since she took over in Dec. or Jan. we're on the tele. at least once a week. She's always at the RT's. I've seen her at the Klondike (with the FD and SE), our feederpack's B&G, a scout round up for our troop at the school, the followup Open House, and to talk with the adult leadership of our towns new Youth Interfaith Council about starting up one large YIC or four smaller church Venture Crews. All this in the last 6-7 weeks. Actually the FD was also at the YIC discussion and the Jan. RT. My wife thinks I'm having an affair with them, lol.

As for summercamp, our Council is lucky enough to be one of the few that doesn't need to subsidize summercamp. We year after year run in the black, due in part to a great camp honors program that draws troops from out of council, out of state, and from overseas. And the council can provide at least 50% camperships on average for the more needy scouts.

Council did hit some financial snags in the last 2 years, but the Pro's have got everything under control and have us moving quickly in the right direction again.

Back in my scouting days 30+ years ago, the troop I was in was unfortunately for them (before my time) credited with starting not one but two fires on campouts that prevented them from ever camping at those locations in the future. One I know was small, maybe an acre. The other was in another state. Of course all before LNT.

Now is the time to push, not to just mention or require reciting of the LNT principles, but to make the LNT Award no longer an award, but an actual core rank requirement. It can be dispersed throughout the TF to FC requirements including at least three LNT days camping. How about 10 days? The more, the better it gets driven home. Maybe they'll learn that there are very few rare circumstances where a fire is really needed, and then a very small one at that. If you're prepared, you won't need it for cooking or keeping warm. If you do, you need just enough wood for a small fire, around the size of your fingers so you can break it easily with your hands. Hey, then you won't need to carry that big cumbersome ax around adding extra weight to the pack. Maybe teach them how to use the ax for TOTEM-CHIP then put it away in the archives, except for demonstrations of Scoutcraft.

I feel for you Chip-29.

In our town we have one Troop and 1 Pack. 10 mi;es to the north, there are 1 or 2 troops im the next council. 5-7 miles to the east, 2 troops; 1 a few miles to the south. There must be an unwriten understanding between us because none of us seem to attempt to recriut near the other troops, even the one just a few miles south.

Our problem has been the large one 10 miles away.

The last 4 or 5 years we've been losing Webelos's to this troop. The reason, the former CM was affiliated with the larger Catholic church and troop down the road. He would tell everyone at the Pack that there is a troop in town, "but I would like to see all the boys down at St. Mary's.

We were lucky if we received 2 or 3 a year, usually siblings. Lucky for us he has moved on with his boys.

The new CM is also a professional, formerly from our council, but now with the next council. He loves the CM position, He helps with the Webelos (he has one of his own) and seems to really enjoy that too. In our discussions he asked why our troop had dropped in numbers over the last several years. He had not been aware of the problem. Since knowing, he has made it clear to the Pack that we are the closest troop and that they are a feeder pack and this is where the Webelos should go. This year we received all 4 Web's II. Next year, hopefully 8. Granted we're trying to make a better impression on the Pack by being more involved with them.

Wish you luck.

Latrine duty and KP sometimes does wonders, especially if they're cleaning it every time their language gets crappy (yes pun intended). Two or three times a day for a couple of days will probably do the trick. By the way, the CO would probably be pleasantly surprised finding the restroom at the meeting place spic-n-span. Hit them up at the meeting.

For those pesky 1st degree and mild 2nd degre burns, nothing stops the sting and burning process faster the egg whites. I'm from the medical field and can vouch for it, use it all the time. Probably the only thing not in the Pharmacy that I would use. But then again my indiginious brothers having cures that aren't well known, and if approached to use one, I probably would.

By the way, If a line of Ants on a march suddenly have an object blocking their way, do they really stop, go right over top, or around? Lay some ant food out and see what happens.

Here's two:

1) Making fire from ice. It works if you know how.

2) What boils faster, a pot of water over the fire or one with a hot rock in it? Take precautions with the rock. It also works with making maple syrup and a lot faster then the boilers.

This might be more appropriate for the "Pranks" thread but went down at an EBOR. Several of our Troop Scouters had been involved at the District and Council level. Their sons were quite well known to the staff running the EBOR. Well. one of the boys had been involved in a prank involving an outhouse that had a toilet in it. One of the EBOR staffers knew of the prank, had the actual toilet brought to the EBOR and sitting in the room. The look was priceless even though not a single question was asked about the toilet.

Have fun gwd.

I agree Randy.

30+ years back were great times. Come home from school. Little homework. Lots of playing in the woods, fields, park, etc. Maybe Little League practice or game. Very little scheduling. Boys could go out and be boys without someone directing them all over the place. Cub's and Scouts were fun.

And yes Ea., modern day sporting programs have rally taken a toll. We never did Cub's. The oldest always wanted to be at the pool for practice. Could have done meets every Sat. and Sun. His friends talked him into Scouts at 15 1/2. He always was interested but the pool came first, until HS. At least he was focused and had a plan when he joined and managed Eagle out of it. To bad we have Summer League this, Indoor League that, and ooh the Traveling Leagues. Mom and Pop want a sports superstar and scholarship nowadays. Sorry for the hijack.

If the parential unit is disfunctional, you may want to/ need to look past the parents.

Do any of these boys have older sib.'s or relatives at the Boy Scout level that may be able to step in for the lacking parent.

Another Web. parent whose Web. is the boys friend, that can get the boys together after school a few times during the weekto help keep him on track.

Grandparents. Not all apples fall close to the tree. I've seen grandparents step up and take due to the parents lack of interest in the kids. Somtime it's a surprise to find that the Grandparent was a Scout or better yet , a few generations back, actually a leader. I found out at Crossover last month that a grandfather to one of the Webelos, a gent that I ran on the Fire and Rescue with for over 10-15 years, had at one time been a Scout in our Troop and was actually the SM for a while. Small world.

I know it's hard, especially when you have a totally worthless parent for what ever reason, but unless they are vengeful and controlling, there is usually a way to work around them and help the boy.

GOOD LUCK

ERIC

Let's close the Schism a little. I know most calenders are already set for May. May 12th is "Jamboree On The Trail" sponsored by WOSM. Have your Scouts take your feeder Webelos dens on a day hike. It doesn't have to be long. Throw in a "Trail Cleanup Project". If you camp, invite the Webelos to camp and invite the rest of the Pack to come for the day only.

Benefits:

1. Troop/Pack relations.

2. Boy Scout/ Webelos relations

3. Have the Scouts teach and help the Webelos knock off some of their rank requirements before and after the hike.

4. The Webelos get to see how the Scouts do it.

5. A cool campfire program at dinner.

6 JOTT PATCHES FOR ALL!!!

oldsm,

Part 2.) to my previous post: "any taining needed" is refering to YP and the "Does and Dont's" that you describe. As far as I know, Dac does it pretty much the way you do for new MBC's. In Feb. at our BPI, one of the classes is on "Being a MBC: Does and Dont's" that our DAC proctors.

As to the Blue Cards,

Our District has the scout turn in the part for the troop to the troop advancement committee member. Some how the card is forwarded to the GURU who checks them and gets them back to the troop. That way the District can keep tabs on what is happening within the District. That way Dac and the GURU can make see if a former MBC is still functioning under the radar and contact him about re-upping. Also, this way DAC and Guru can see if any MBC's that were pulled from the District list by the District due to problems (YP, bending requirements, etc), are trying to run under the District's radar,and take appropriate action as needed to reign in the rogue MBC. Hope this claifies things. It just might be a local varience.

We have the same problem here with Council being very outdated on their MBC list. Our District works around the Council.

Our District Adv. Chairperson also has a MBC guru. The way they run things at the District level goes as follows:

1.)Prospective MBC's fill out the MBC application and Adult registration form if they are not already a member of Scouting. This of course covers the background checks.

2.) DAC then talks with the applicant about their background in the subject matter and why they want to be a MBC, if they are restricting themselves to only their Troops or are open to the District. He then sets the applicant up with any training that may be required.

3.)The applicants are then to return the applications to the DAC who sends the appropriate paper work to the appropriate place. (What happens to it after that, flip a coin?) At least the DAC has a list of MBC for the District. If there is not a MBC for a particular MB for the District, the DAC usually has a name of a MBC from a neighboring District on the list that is willing to help.

4.)When a scout is ready to do a MB, they are to use a name from the District list, or contact the DAC as to why they wish to use a MBC from somewhere else and get the DACs permission. DAC HATES WHEN A SCOUT OR TROOP GOES TO A MB MILL FOR A 2 NIGHT CAMPOUT AND COMES HOME WITH 4 NEW BADGES THAT SHOULD HAVE TAKEN A FEW WEEKS TO DO!! DAC just wants to make sure that the MBC is on the up and up and that the scouts are getting a quality MBC.

5.) The blue card then goes to the Guru. He does actually check them. Helps to be semi-retired I guess.

6.) DAC requires that the MBC acknowledge his wish to continue as a MBC every year. He sends out a reminder. If the MBC doesnt re-up the name is dropped, If it is someone that DAC knows, he will ask in passing or might make a "just checking" call to see if the MBC forgot or is dropping off the list. The MBC's that DAC doesn't know he takes off the list. He has had situations in the past where a good intentioned scout calls a name on the list to have a spouse answer and inform the scout that the MBC has passed, making it awkward for everyone involved.

DAC's Special Considerations:

1.) If the Troop is going to do their own High Adventure Outting out of District or Council, say a 50 Miler, or a week of Whitewatering and Climbing at a qualified facility/outfitter that has MBCs on their staff, then he'll allow for those MB's. DAC really would like the scouts to do their MB's individually, but realizes that sometimes the MB has to be done as a group as not to have the MBC tied up for 7 or 8 nights trying to pass 10 or 20 scouts off on a badge where the MBC is the only MBC around.

2.) If the scout fulfills requirements for a badge at school and one of his teachers is a MBC from out of District or Council, and signs off, DAC won't argue the point.

Last Nov. whenI approached our DE about a school roundup, he also passed along a Taw list for 2006 crossovers who apparently had not joined a troop. Last month we sent out invitations for a Troop Open House and then followed up with a phone call 3-4 days beforehand.Out of the 13 boys within 5 miles, 2 had joined other troops. we had 4 crossovers this year, 2-3 each of the last 2 years. Prior to that, the former CM was affiliated with a troop at his church 9 miles away and had managed to pull at least half the the crossovers down to that troop even though they were our feeder pack. Other then this troop we only have competition from one other troop within 4 miles.

This year we (the troop) are making a consorted effort to be involved with the Webelos Dens and with being more visible at pack functions.

kb

I agree with Trev. It is a good problem to have.

Trev. 25, I'm envious, we only received 4. We're rebuilding, only have 11-13.

kb, how close is this group? What are their future plans after 18, college, military or jobs in the area? Would they (the boys), the SO and the troop be willing to throw a Crew together? How many would stay on until 21? This would/could give you 3 more years of holding onto them, letting them achieving new goals and making you proud.

My 20y/o has always wanted to start one, but the ones who would be interested, their wings have spread them far and wide.

Beavah,

I have to agree with LongHaul here. Maybe not all scouts/boys are lazy an want everything handed to them, but a darn big percentage of them come across that way. Must be waited on hand and foot at home because they sure seem to expect it. .

Guess again Boys.

I've talked with the new SM about really trying to push the patrol method. We'll become the OLD FARTS PATROL. We'll function just like the boy patrols, plan our menu, do our own cooking, have our own activities (well sorta) on the next camp-out. The boys will have to run their patrols. We'll only advise (help if there really is a problem, but not tell them that). Our NSP (I only use it because of our census right now), I think will show up the older apathetic scouts. My goal is "You had the time to plan and knew how to plan you itinerary, now your living by it this weekend." Afterwards sit down with them and discuss what happened, why and will they "BE PREPRED" the next time for a better outcome.

As for NSP, unfortunately our troop had a lot age out the last two years. We're down to 13 on the recharter, including the 4 crossovers. The problem we have is that 2 out of the four older scouts (15y/o) are lazy, want to hang together not really help with the younger boys. Another is semi-special needs and has a real hard time with remembering skills due to his LD's. He's probably the best scout when it comes to spirit though. This leaves the SPL and a 12 y/o to teach the skills.

The advantage of NSP over VP in our troop is that hopefully by not placing them in a patrol with the older scouts, we can shield them from the apathy the older scouts have toward the program and can show them how scouting and a patrol are really suppose to work, like LongHaul and I remember. Hopefully over the next few years as new crossovers come to the troop, with the help of these new ones, we will be able to use the multi-age patrol method. I really think it is more condusive to learning. I also agree that by being in a multi-age patrol, that if a friend leaves, the scout will have other acquaintances to fall back on and hopefully not follow the friend.

LongHaul, I miss the old days/ways. How about you?

Kahits, Congrat's no keeping your son interested and involved in the culture. We're in the process of researching the family (great grandmother was a fullblood from the Cherokee Confederation. Not sure of which tribe yet).

As for OA, if your son meets the nomination requirements, see if the troop elects him in. His Cheerful Service can be through the Ceremony Team run by IA (Indian Activities).

They might need an advisor, dad. He'll have to have the maturity to walk quietly until others see his attributes, skills and gift. When they do, they'll come to him for advice. If he goes radical over something he see that isn't correct, change will come very slowly. I know. My 20 y/o is just now calming down.

OA does their best but some are naive to the our ways. OA has come a long way. They require teams to use regalia, dance and song from their region after researching the styles and receiving permission from the proper tribal affiliation. OA has major competitions that your son would do well in.

Do you have other scouts and venturers that dance and sing. Maybe they can recharge the chapter. See my first post.

Another site you might be interested in is the www.aisi.com. Wish you and your son the best. Feel free to contact me.

Kahits, Congrat's no keeping your son interested and involved in the culture. We're in the process of researching the family (great grandmother was a fullblood from the Cherokee Confederation. Not sure of which tribe yet).

As for OA, if your son meets the nomination requirements, see if the troop elects him in. His Cheerful Service can be through the Ceremony Team run by IA (Indian Activities).

They might need an advisor, dad. He'll have to have the maturity to walk quietly until others see his attributes, skills and gift. When they do, they'll come to him for advice. If he goes radical over something he see that isn't correct, change will come very slowly. I know. My 20 y/o is just now calming down.

OA does their best but some are naive to the our ways. OA has come a long way. They require teams to use regalia, dance and song from their region after researching the styles and receiving permission from the proper tribal affiliation. OA has major competitions that your son would do well in.

Do you have other scouts and venturers that dance and sing. Maybe they can recharge the chapter. See my first post.

Another site you might be interested in is the www.aisi.com. Wish you and your son the best. Feel free to contact me.

What is the plausibility of assigning a scout (who is interesred)as a Den Chief to the Webelos I or II den, then have him be either the appointed PL (if that is how your troop functions) or as the Troop Guide for his Web's NSP? If he's the PL, make it for 6 months and rotate the newbies thru the APL position. Then at the 6 month mark, become the Guide and let the newbies start rotating into the PL position. This gives the newbies a scout leading them that they know and trust OR is this to much exposure to the same scout?

By the time the newbies are FC and around 13-14, maybe you can continue the cycle by having them be Den Chiefs for the Web. I or even Bears. 1-2 years assisting the Pack as DC and 6 months as the PL would make them about 16, a good age for Guide as stated in a earlier post. Just a thought. lso, what ever happened to training (competencying) the older boys in the troops like in my ancient times? I thought it helped us be better teachers.