Kudu

Kudu, Not sure I understand your question. In the unlikely event, that Congress would revisit the BSA charter, here goes.

 

"The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies and other youth organizations:

 

1) The ability of youth to do things for themselves and others,

2) To train them in Scoutcraft, and life skills.

3) To teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues,

 

using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. probably remove as methods change over time

 

30904 Powers

(2) The corporation may dispose in any manner of the whole property of the corporation only with the written consent and affirmative vote of a majority of the members of the corporation.

Are "members" the CO's or scout and scouters? Rewrite! I sure as hell did not vote to shutdown Schiff Reservation!

 

30905 Exclusive rights... have "scout" and "scouting" become genericized like aspirin and escalator?

The corporation has the exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases the corporation adopts.

This section does not affect any vested rights.

 

What if another youth group, say the "1911 Scouts" formed and decided to use the requirements listed in your link? I can't understand anyone complaining about their name or program.

 

My $0.01,

But we did that already, of course.

I could see the parents in the background cringing. Any thoughts on getting the parents engaged?????

 

 

Yes, if you offer backpacking, climbing, scuba, canoe trips, shotgun, on a regular basis, word will get around, and high adventure parents, district/community/friends of friends will volunteer for those trips. These are adults who want NO part of typical BSA monthly campouts.

 

As for regular recruiting:

 

Consider a Facebook, YouTube, and Web presence: We get a slow but steady stream of Scouts who transfer to us from standard Troops. I plan to add Google+ soon.

 

Also, we make sure that Scouts earning the 1st Class "tell a friend or lapsed Scout about Scouting" requirement, to bring their friend to a cool campout (they do NOT have to register). Figure another 10% per year there.

 

And, of course, anyone with access to a public or private school can bring in an extra twelve (12) to twenty registered Scouts per year using my 6th Grade Recruiting Presentation:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

Parents are overrated.

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

But these are serious leaders.

I could see the parents in the background cringing. Any thoughts on getting the parents engaged?????

Yes, if you offer backpacking, climbing, scuba, canoe trips, shotgun, on a regular basis, word will get around, and high adventure parents, district/community/friends of friends will volunteer for those trips. These are adults who want NO part of typical BSA monthly campouts.

As for regular recruiting:

Consider a Facebook, YouTube, and Web presence: We get a slow but steady stream of Scouts who transfer to us from standard Troops. I plan to add Google+ soon.

Also, we make sure that Scouts earning the 1st Class "tell a friend or lapsed Scout about Scouting" requirement, to bring their friend to a cool campout (they do NOT have to register). Figure another 10% per year there.

And, of course, anyone with access to a public or private school can bring in an extra twelve (12) to twenty registered Scouts per year using my 6th Grade Recruiting Presentation:

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

"The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies:

1) The ability of boys to do things for themselves and others,

2) To train them in Scoutcraft, and

3) To teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues,

using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916."

　

With more alternative scout groups' date=' I wonder if that Congressional charter will be revised as much has changed since June 15, 1916. [/quote']

　

Really? Which of the 1916 requirements (marked in red on the following URL), are you glad we "revised" out of our side of the agreement?

　

http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm

　

Isn't that why we sell Boy Scout camps?

　

William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt said that:

　

The Program = The Requirements

　

The point of specifying the exact date of June 15, 1916, is so after Congress imposes our corporation on the American people as the absolute monopoly on Scouting (defined as Scoutcraft), we can not just decide on June 16th to replace (or redefine) Scoutcraft with, say, "leadership" skills (or "hacker" skills).

　

To the BSA's credit, we waited longer than a day to do that!

　

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

[h=1]Boy Scouts threaten to sue Oakland-based nonprofit for using 'scouts' in name[/h] By Paul T. Rosynsky

Oakland Tribune

Posted: 08/23/2013 05:55:41 AM PDT | Updated: about 11 hours ago

OAKLAND -- Youth groups beware: Don't use "scouts" in your name unless you want a fight from one of the largest youth organizations in the country. Oakland-based nonprofit Hacker Scouts, a group that fosters science, engineering and technology learning, is learning that lesson.

Less than a year after the youth organization was formed, the Boy Scouts of America sent a letter demanding the removal of "scouts" from their name and threatening a lawsuit if Hacker Scouts refused to honor the request.

The Boy Scouts of America says it's simply trying to "protect its intellectual property and brand." Hacker Scouts representatives say they're being bullied.

"Scouting has been around a lot longer than the boy scouts," said Samantha Cook, founder and executive director of Hacker Scouts. "It seems ridiculous that they can own that word."

http://tinyurl.com/kejr9d2

Welcome back!

"Kudu is as bad as Merlyn Leroy, only worse!"

Beavah

FYI' date=' 13 years old for COPE is a national standard, can't get around it.[/quote']

 

Take Climbing Merit Badge instead.

 

Our Troop's vertical ascent record is held by a ten (10) year-old who spent his first summer camp on a tower.

 

That's his voice:

 

http://troop452.com/climbing/index.htm

 

　

A NOTE TO YOUNG READERS:

So you Googled "Baden-Powell" and "Scouting Heritage Merit Badge" and found this thread? Here is a checklist you can use to compare Baden-Powell's "Patrol System," to your Troop's "Patrol Method."

　

When camping as a Troop, how far apart do you camp your Patrols?

a) 300 feet (Patrol System)

b) 5-20 feet (Patrol Method)

　

From whom did you learn your Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class skills?

a) My Patrol Leader, of course (Patrol System)

b) Troop Guide, Troop Instructors, and strangers at summer camp (Patrol Method)

　

　

Who officially confirmed you as a Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class Scout?

a) My Patrol Leader on a Patrol Hike (Patrol System)

b) Mommies and daddies at a Board of Review (Patrol Method)

What is a Troop committee?

a) Patrol Leaders, of course. There is no adult committee (Patrol System)

b) Parents (Patrol Method)

　

　

Who controls the Troop's money?

a) The Patrol Leaders, of course (Patrol System)

b) Some adult (Patrol Method)

　

　

How long have you had the same Patrol Leader?

a) As long as I have been in Scouts, but he's our best woodsman (Patrol System)

b) We vote for a new one every six (6) months (Patrol Method)

　

　

What is the purpose of your Patrol?

a) To explore the woods by ourselves (Patrol System)

b) To learn "leadership skills" next to other Patrols (Patrol Method)

　

Which do you think is actually boy-run, the Patrol System or the Patrol Method?

a) Baden-Powell's Patrol System, of course

b) My Scouting Heritage Merit Badge Counselor says there is no difference! (Patrol Method)

I'm thinking of using Story of the Boy Scouts by Wyatt Blassingame as a basic primer when I offer this badge; any opinions on the book? I like it because it acknowledges Seton and Beard's pre-BP roots (though it does neglect to even give events' years with those two while meticulously dating BP's actions).

I had hoped to Google up some of my own posts from 15 years ago, in which I also give examples of Baden-Powell "borrowing" the badge system and other program elements (including some Birch Bark games) from Seton's program.

As for my "B-P-Blindness," only my legendary modesty prevents me from pointing out that I was the first person in the world to provide Seton's (and Beard's) entire pre-Scouting handbook on the Internet. In the years before Google Books and the rise of the Gutenberg Project, my Boy Scout Website was the only such digital reference anywhere, including the links on Wikipedia and the Seton Institute itself.

http://inquiry.net/traditional/seton/birch/index.htm

http://inquiry.net/traditional/beard/pioneers/index.htm

B-P's military patrols, however, (and his military scout games like Capture the Flag, Spider & Fly, etc.) predate Seton. Real Patrols are the reason that Scouting became overwhelmingly popular with boys. Their absence now is why most American boys hate Scouting as much as they would hate sports if we removed the physical distance elements of any game and replaced them with "leadership skills."

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p/aids2scouting/a2s_167.htm

Eagle92, I saw a product demo at Jamboree from the rep for Gear Aid. They have a glue for sole separation. He was doing a land office business with that stuff. You might try it.

While I agree with Kudu's thoughts on physical distance -- I've learned that separating patrols makes it an effort to go "mess" with other patrols solves more discipline issues that anything you can do -- I have come to see that cooking a meal is the essence of a patrol. Every attribute we want to instill in our Scouts is learned, honed and tested while planning, cooking and cleaning up from a meal -- teamwork, cooperation, leadership, courtesy, reverence, delegation, compromise, dealing with adversity and other's shortcomings, not to mention the basic skills involved. We are a cooking troop which means our campouts tend to be more homesteading than trekking. Leave my guys in the woods long enough and they'll have crops in the ground.

 

Getting to that point took years. I could write a book on the things we did to get our Scouts to the point at which they were willing to put al little extra effort into preparing good meals. The hardest part was getting the boys to take some risks and try new things, have some confidence in their own ability and understand that their efforts would pay off in the end -- not a bad life lesson, huh?

 

The first thing I did was to ban both Pop-Tarts and Raman noodles. Yep, dictate top-down from the SM. What I found was that I could encourage several patrols to put the effort in to making a nice meal, but it only took a couple guys walking around munching Pop-Tarts and sneering at the other guys for being chumps to negate the positive gains. Pop-Tarts are the perfect adolescent meal -- easy, require no effort, no team work, they are devoid of any nutritional value, and allow the guys to be seen as bucking the system and getting away with something -- a home run for a 14 year old boy. One of our first cooking programs was a "Iron Chef" weekend during which the troop provided each patrol with an identical larder of food for the weekend (not unlike the way patrol meals are provided for IOLS training.) They were required to use every ingredient and were scored on the creativity and quality among other things. One of the obvious solution was to use the peppers, onions and mushrooms to make an omelet instead of simple scrambled eggs. We were encouraged when, on the next month's campout, several of the patrols brought peppers, onions, sausage, salsa, etc., and started to run with the idea. But the next campout, as all the patrols were working on their breakfasts, a couple guys from the self-appointed "cool kid patrol" walked from campsite to campsite chomping on their Pop-Tarts, bragging about how they slept in, had Pop-Tarts and were already finished with breakfast. The hissing sound was the air being let out of our program.

 

Which is all a long way to make the point that you shouldn't be afraid to step in and establish a baseline for the program. YOU, as Scoutmaster, are responsible for delivering the program. Youth leadership is part of that program, but isn't the tail which wags the dog. Don't get hung up on the idea that you have to wait for the boys to discover the correct path and follow it. ESPECIALLY when trying to fix a broken culture, the unit leaders need to layout the broad strokes of the program then let the Scouts take it from there. It may be necessary for you to reset some of the expectations for the older boys, especially if their current rules of operation are negatively impacting the program for the younger boys.

 

Scouts aren't born with the ability to lead, plan, camp, cook, hike, etc. It takes training. That the older boys have developed poor habits in these areas doesn't mean you are stuck with their poor example. Yes, it will be difficult for them to unlearn those habits and get on with the new program, but they need to. Of course you've got to decide which hills are worth dying on and how far you can push the older Scouts.

 

One of the most beneficial sessions in Wood Badge, I thought, was the one on managing change. My take-away from the session, now almost 10 years ago, was that to manage change you need 1) a clear vision for your end goal, 2) communicate that plan to the group, 3) the fortitude to stick with it, 4) and the willingness to accept some losses along the way. You may lose some of the older Scouts along the away. You've got to decide what are acceptable losses.

 

But most important is having a clear understanding of your goal and staying that course.

 

Twocubdad writes:

 

While I agree with Kudu's thoughts on physical distance -- I have come to see that cooking a meal is the essence of a patrol.

 

 

To be fair, I wrote that nothing changes the culture of a Troop FASTER than physical distance between the Patrols!

Within minutes of pitching tents in remote hideouts, the need for strong Patrol Leaders becomes obvious to Scouts and adults alike. This remarkable instant change in Troop culture is also true for Patrol backpacking as little as a quarter-mile from the Troop trailer.

I agree with TwoCubDad that cooking a meal is the essence of a patrol, and the time it takes to become the established Troop culture is worth it.

The downside of placing it before physical distance, is that when guys set their minds on a cooking priority, then heavy-duty Patrol Boxes, propane tank trees, and a car port dining area close to the Troop trailer is not far behind.

When physical distance comes first, the beauty of Lightweight Patrol Cooking is obvious:

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/lightweight_camping.htm

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/cooking/lightweight.htm

LHScoutmaster,

 

3. Strengthening the patrol method is paramount! Focus efforts on anything and everything that improves this, such as ... locating patrol campsites far away from one another (including adults).

 

Add Bearclaw's suggestion #3 to my collection of physical distance suggestions for this thread!

It is easier for adults in transition to picture Boy Scout Patrols designing Patrol Flags, selecting menus for a campout, assigning a duty roster, and participating in inter-patrol competitions. These can all be done under "controlled failure" supervision.

Patrols camped far apart and backpacking without two-deep helicopters can be more difficult to imagine.

LHScoutmaster, is Baden-Powell's 300 foot minimum standard for the Patrol System of any practical value to you, or is it just words?

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

NSPs aren't forced? LOL. Ok that is a whole different discussion, but with the same answer to this discussion. If two different SMs use the methods differently with equal success, is one program worse than the other? And what if those two different adults went to the same training. I used to have this same discussion with another respected scouter on this forum on our differing opinions of running a boy run troop. He at that time believed there was only one way to run a program to get the BEST results and until everyone was of the same mind (his), they could never achieve his vision of perfection. While I was SM, I guided a servant leadership style program. I know through the years of your post that you did too. But we have a completely different vision as well as completely different program style to reaching are vision. Can you conceive a way to train other adults to use servant leadership without changing their style of using Aims and Methods? Our troop did not put a special focus on advancement and yet we have as many Eagles percentage wise as the Eagle Mill down the sreet that is three times bigger. The only striking difference was the average age of their Eagles was 14, ours was 16. They are known locally as an Eagle Mill, but can we honestly say they don't use servant leadership? How can we measure when a troop uses servant leadership and when they don't? I know a lot of SMs who say they are boy run (including the Eagle Mil troopl) but look nothing like our boy run program. How do I tell them they are doing it wrong? Does anyone reading this thread believe they dont encourage a servant leadership style with teir scouts? I'm not saying National couldn't do a better job encouraging servant leadership, but I do respect the challenge. I'm not really sure you and I agree on the concept and that was how we each ran the troops. Yep, you have to respect the challenge. Barry

NSPs aren't forced? LOL. Ok that is a whole different discussion, but with the same answer to this discussion. If two different SMs use the methods differently with equal success, is one program worse than the other? And what if those two different adults went to the same training. I used to have this same discussion with another respected scouter on this forum on our differing opinions of running a boy run troop. He at that time believed there was only one way to run a program to get the BEST results and until everyone was of the same mind (his), they could never achieve his vision of perfection. While I was SM, I guided a servant leadership style program. I know through the years of your post that you did too. But we have a completely different vision as well as completely different program style to reaching are vision. Can you conceive a way to train other adults to use servant leadership without changing their style of using Aims and Methods? Our troop did not put a special focus on advancement and yet we have as many Eagles percentage wise as the Eagle Mill down the sreet that is three times bigger. The only striking difference was the average age of their Eagles was 14, ours was 16. They are known locally as an Eagle Mill, but can we honestly say they don't use servant leadership? How can we measure when a troop uses servant leadership and when they don't? I know a lot of SMs who say they are boy run (including the Eagle Mil troopl) but look nothing like our boy run program. How do I tell them they are doing it wrong? Does anyone reading this thread believe they dont encourage a servant leadership style with teir scouts? I'm not saying National couldn't do a better job encouraging servant leadership, but I do respect the challenge. I'm not really sure you and I agree on the concept and that was how we each ran the troops. Yep, you have to respect the challenge. Barry

I'm thinking of using Story of the Boy Scouts by Wyatt Blassingame as a basic primer when I offer this badge; any opinions on the book? I like it because it acknowledges Seton and Beard's pre-BP roots (though it does neglect to even give events' years with those two while meticulously dating BP's actions).

Patrols, pg 82

 

"The Birch-Bark Roll offered 'a coherent scheme for organizing boys into manageable self-governing units...

Scott is quoting the rabidly anti-Baden-Powell leftist Michael Rosenthal.

I had marked the facing page because it was the first time I had ever seen David Scott agree with Tim Jeal.

Ever :-/

However, Jeal does not agree with Rosenthal:

"Seton's most serious accusations should not be taken seriously, nor should Michael Rosenthal's recent argument that Baden-Powell found in the structure of the Woodcraft Indians 'an organizational model that provided solutions for almost every problem he faced'." There were indeed similarities between Seton's Indian 'bands' and Baden-Powell's Boy Scout 'patrols'. Both were placed under a boy leader who was himself under the more distant authority of an adult, but there were many other precedents which Baden-Powell could just as well have chosen to follow. When the True Blue War Library was running its Boy Scout stories, the newspaper inaugurated a boys' society called 'The True and Trusty Band'. Members swore to obey various laws, and joined groups of from six to eight under a boy captain. There were secret signs, and badges to be won.

"In the 5th Dragoon Guards and in the S. A.C., Baden-Powell had trained men in groups of six under an N. C.O. rather than an officer, and had long been an admirer of the public school system of supervision by senior boys. Seton's bands were considered viable at anything between 15 and 50 boys; Baden-Powell therefore followed his own precedents in determining the number for each Scout patrol. The name itself came from his own book Cavalry Instruction (1887), in which he had called all small scouting groups 'patrols'. Nor is Rosenthal correct in thinking that Baden-Powell derived his idea for First- and Second-Class Scouts from Seton's division of his Indians into Braves and Warriors. Scouts in the 5th Dragoon Guards had been divided by ability and knowledge into 'First and Second Class' [Jeal, The Boy-Man, page 380].

I will try to respond to more of your quoted passages, as best as this poor sufferer of "BP Blindness" is able. :-/

I'm thinking of using Story of the Boy Scouts by Wyatt Blassingame as a basic primer when I offer this badge; any opinions on the book? I like it because it acknowledges Seton and Beard's pre-BP roots (though it does neglect to even give events' years with those two while meticulously dating BP's actions).

"At Silver Bay, groups of six boys, each led by an adult, raised shelters, cooked meals, and met each evening around campfires hosted by Seton" (page 111).

Scouter99 commented:

And your issue with Seton presiding over the camp fire at Silver Bay? BP led the fire at Brownsea, assigned the patrols, made the names and flags. pg 77

Um, yes that is an "issue" for me.

The central issue.

You see Seton presiding over the Silver Bay campfire, and Baden-Powell doing the same thing at Brownsea.

I see Seton forming Patrols of six boys led by ADULT Patrol Leaders, and Baden-Powell's Patrols spread around Brownsea island without adult supervision.

THE BSA UNDER CHIEF SCOUT SETON:

"Care should be taken by the Scout Master that the patrol leaders do not have too great authority in the supervision of their patrols...The activities of the patrol should not be left to the judgment of any patrol leader"

I'm thinking of using Story of the Boy Scouts by Wyatt Blassingame as a basic primer when I offer this badge; any opinions on the book? I like it because it acknowledges Seton and Beard's pre-BP roots (though it does neglect to even give events' years with those two while meticulously dating BP's actions).

What Seton and Beard introduced to Scouting was the use of word games to pretend that the Patrol System (and Scouting in general) is anything you say it is, as long as you use words such as "Patrol" or "Scoutcraft" (the BSA now uses both terms to mean EDGE theory, for instance).

Such word games appeal to our modern use of the term "Patrol Method" to mean little "controlled failure" leadership skills laboratories cramped into small established campsites under the close supervision of two-deep helicopters.

The comparison of Seton's division of Woodcraft Tribes into Bands is an analogy to Troops and Patrols, not a true comparison.

For instance, take Scott's description of Seton's Silver Bay encampment:

"At Silver Bay, groups of six boys, each led by an adult, raised shelters, cooked meals, and met each evening around campfires hosted by Seton" (page 111).

That description of an adult-led Band is not far from what would soon become the YMCA's Patrol leadership theory in the BSA:

"The Patrol Leader and the Scout Master

"Care should be taken by the Scout Master that the patrol leaders do not have too great authority in the supervision of their patrols. The success of the troop affairs and supervision of patrol progress is, in the last analysis, the responsibility of the Scout Master and not that of the patrol leader. There is also a danger, in magnifying the patrol leader in this way, of inordinately swelling the ordinary boy's head. The activities of the patrol should not be left to the judgment of any patrol leader, and if the Scout Master wants to delegate the work of the patrol and troop, the whole group should reach a decision in regard to the plan"

See:

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/index.htm

And for Seton's Tribe and Band structure:

http://inquiry.net/traditional/seton/birch/organization/organization.htm

Once BSA works through the homosexual ... issues' date=' maybe they can tackle the pull-up issue.[/quote']

 

Pull-ups ARE gay.

 

Transgendered to be precise.

 

Pull-ups are not a requirement until after the "leadership skills" crowd sliced "Patrol Leader Training" off the program.

 

The outdoor naughty bits gone, Hillcourt's training to lead a Patrol into the woods was replaced with sedentary office theory.

 

You can hardly tell its fake!

 

Apparently you flunked Diversity Wood Badge.

 

I'm thinking of using Story of the Boy Scouts by Wyatt Blassingame as a basic primer when I offer this badge; any opinions on the book? I like it because it acknowledges Seton and Beard's pre-BP roots (though it does neglect to even give events' years with those two while meticulously dating BP's actions).

Scott's excerpt from the censored chapter of "Hardly a Man is Now Alive," in which Beard lies outright to claim his invention of the term "Boy Scout" years before Baden-Powell, is by itself worth the price of Scott's book:

"Beard's account gave to understand that Scouting arose directly from his efforts...He liberally reconstructed his conversations with 'Recreation' publisher William Annis about starting a boys organization. 'Annis, I think I have a great idea,' Beard recalled telling him. 'We will form a Society of Boy Scouts and identify it with the greatest of Scouts by calling the boys ''The Sons of Daniel Boone'.' Annis was immediately enthusiastic. He cried, 'Mr. Beard, we'll sweep the country with it.' He little knew that we were going to sweep the world" (page 221).

Like all pro-BSA historians, Scott casts the villain of his story as "The American Boy Scouts" (America's sole objector to the YMCA's goal of an absolute monopoly on Scouting in the United States), but fails to acknowledge that the YMCA's classroom-based replacement of B-P's outdoor badge system, and the YMCA's horrifically anti-Patrol System program was as wide of the mark as the American Boy Scouts' militarism.

It was Seton and Beard's spotlight on stand-alone Scoutcraft skills (which were then, and now once again tested indoors by adult "Boards of Review" rather than in a Patrol on patrol), that delayed America's widespread adoption of the Patrol Method until the late 1920s.

Word on the street is that because of Tim Jeal, the BSA allows only proven pro-BSA historians to examine its archives. The Scouting Heritage story I would like to hear is how James West (himself a YMCA man) transcended Seton and Beard's anti-Baden-Powell agenda, stood up to YMCA leadership theory, then single-handedly introduced the Patrol Method and hired William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt to implement it.

If only we had such a Chief Scout Executive today.

The other bookend to this forever-to-be-untold story is how Wood Badge's demolition of Scoutcraft and the Patrol Method began in 1965, months before Hillcourt was even out the door into retirement. Did Hillcourt recognize and object to the fatal Position of Responsibility requirements, as we know he did to Wood Badge's replacement of Scoutcraft with "leadership skills"?

Given that the unveiling by John Larson (the father of Modern Wood Badge) of Leadership Development's use of ad hominem attacks (as the ultimate defense of "leadership skills") was directed against William Hillcourt himself, what was the tenor of the internal memos in which Larson detailed the systematic destruction of Hillcourt's life work, and the BSA's subsequent fall from unprecedented popularity with boys, to the marginal cult of adult helicopter skills that is Scouting's Heritage today?

Mere sniping matches, Kahuna?

Strong campfire horror story to follow.

The EDGE method is good for teachers' date=' business, military, etc... its a tested and proven learning tool.[/quote'] Well then, that "learning tool" explains the 7.7 trillion-dollar business bailout, and why so many people hate the public schools

 

But "tested and proven"?

 

If you "tested" EDGE objectively you would "prove" that even the BSA's top national EDGE experts can not use EDGE to explain something as basic to Scouting as the Patrol Method, without leaving out the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol.

 

What is worse, not a single Wood Badge Staffer or other EDGE trainer in the United States would notice them missing from, say, the Patrol Method presentation of Scoutmaster Specific Training.

 

Um, oh yeah. The BSA's top EDGE trainers did do that, didn't they?

 

Did anyone in any "local program" anywhere in the United States notice them missing?

 

The requirements for each rank are . . . pretty close to those 100 years ago.

 

If that was true, then why do the "leadership skills" types go nuclear when we suggest that the Boy Scouts of America (in exchange for our lucrative monopoly on Scouting) be "trustworthy" enough to "obey" the statute that we include all those requirements from June 15, 1916?

 

For the same reason that we pay the morbidly obese a million dollars a year to mock that law, to promote Wood Badge, and to explain why it is wrong for the Boy Scouts of America to expect a twelve (12) year-old Boy Scout to sleep in a tent away from his mommy and daddy:

 

Not a ten (10) or eleven (11) year-old Boy Scout, mind you, but a twelve (12) year-old Boy Scout!

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sittin...ith_adults.htm

"would it be worthwhile to require a Boy Scout (or an Adult Leader) to read a book at each level of advancement?" Diabolical! I love it!

Your Scouts might like some of Seton's Woodcraft Indian vigils:

The Initiation Trials, especially "8. Lone Camp. Go forth alone into the woods at sunset, out of sight and sound of camp, or human habitation. Take blankets, axe and matches, etc., and make yourself comfortable overnight, not returning till sunrise."

http://inquiry.net/traditional/seton/birch/organization/initiations.htm

And the Naming Ceremony: "To the singing of the GHOST DANCE SONG (Song No. 42), the Medicine Man leads the way toward the Vigil Rock, where a fire has been laid beforehand."

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/ceremony/naming.htm

"would it be worthwhile to require a Boy Scout (or an Adult Leader) to read a book at each level of advancement?" Diabolical! I love it!

In 1898 Robert Baden-Powell was more deeply influenced by his father's best-seller "The Order of Nature" following a spiritual awakening in Kashmir where B-P came to view camping and walking in wild places as an experience which transcended practical considerations:

http://www.scouter.com/forum/girl-scouting/387069-boy-scouts-girl-scouts-campfire-the-whole?p=387414#post387414

I'm sorry, I have to ask......

Why do all of these "original scouters" go by three names?

" .... and that doesn't explain Baden-Powell."

Robert Powell was 12 years old when his mother hyphenated the family's last name to include his father's first name, "Baden."

As a consequence, Robert's older brother, Baden, became "Baden Baden-Powell"!

According to Tim Jeal, she did it for the value that her husband's name recognition had in high-society, even a decade after his death. Baden Powell's book "Essays and Reviews" had become "one of the most famous books of the nineteenth century."

In 1898 Robert was more deeply influenced by his father's best-seller "The Order of Nature" following a spiritual awakening in Kashmir where B-P came to view camping and walking in wild places as an experience which transcended practical considerations:

"Going over these immense hills - especially when alone - and looking almost sheer down into the deep valleys between - one feels like a parasite on the shoulders of the world. There is such a bigness about it all, that opens and freshens up the mind. It's as good as a cold tub for the soul."

See:

http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm

This exposure to The Order of Nature "especially when alone" became the spiritual backbone of Scouting in the form of individual backwoods "Journeys," which are the final test for each rank (replaced in the United States with indoor, adult-led Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review).

Likewise, the Tenderfoot through First Class ranks themselves are earned from a competent Patrol Leader on unsupervised Patrol expeditions, replaced in the US with "controlled failure" (adult association and Wood Badge "leadership skills").

"In the United States' date=' the new BSA encountered the same situation as Baden-Powell had had with girls. James West, Chief Scout Executive, was also adamant that girls should be in a separate organization and that they should not be called "scouts." [/quote']

 

It was Baden-Powell who suggested to West that the term "Scout" should not be used for Cubs or girls' programs.

 

Success in my Boy Scout recruiting efforts always came from overcoming the negative association boys have with the term "Scout," meaning the unending childhood nightmare of indoor crafts called "Cub Scouts."

 

West did sue the GSUSA in 1924 over their use of the term:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/adult/bsa_vs_gsusa.htm