Kudu

Google Sky!

 

You point your smart phone (Android, anyway) at the sky and it identifies what lies in that direction (even in the day, which can be interesting). If you point it at the ground, it shows what is currently in the sky in that direction on the other side of the earth (including the location of the sun at night).

 

The Small Dipper is sometimes too faint to see, so we view it with Google Sky, after the new Scouts show with a green laser how to find the North Star using the pointer stars of the Big Dipper or the Big W (Cassiopeia).

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Google Sky is a feature for Google Earth and an online sky/outer space viewer at http://www.google.com/sky. It was created on August 27, 2007.^[1] The application allows users to view a collaboration of images from NASA satellites, the Sloan Digital Sky Survey, and the Hubble Telescope.^[2]

 

It is available on Android and can be used on a smartphone as an augmented reality application.

 

(free)

 

What modifications have you made for today’s Scouts?

When "leadership skills" replaced Hillcourt's Patrol Method, the popularity of Scouting crashed. As a result, today's Patrols are often spread over a larger geographical area.

1) The purpose of the course is to teach the Troop's most talented leaders (the Patrol Leaders) how to hold neighborhood Patrol Meetings, Patrol Hikes, and Patrol Overnights. In most young Troops the Patrol Leaders hold the Patrol Meetings at weekly Troop meetings, and the Patrol Hikes at Boy Scout camps during the Troop's monthly campouts. Likewise, when a Patrol is ready, the Patrol Overnights should at first be at Baden-Powell's minimum 300 feet between Patrols (scaled up and down to each Patrol's proven maturity level). When I took Wood Badge, each Patrol's Overnight was located at a separate "secret" compass-bearing location on the far-flung edges of the Boy Scout camp.

2) In Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method, the most mature members of the Troop (the Patrol Leaders) pick the SPL, and the PLC is not otherwise dominated by the leadership skills "Troop Method" (no "Troop Guide," no ASPLs). In other words this is not "leadership skills" training. The purpose of Patrol Hikes is for the Patrol Leader (NOT the "Troop" Guide) to teach advancement skills:

The real Patrol Leader will...find that the requirements are not something separate from Scouting. On the contrary, Scouting is the Requirements. When you go hiking and camping the subjects contained in the requirements come up all the time.

http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

3) In today's young Troops you might hold a Green Bar Overnight (or Green Bar Hike) every three months, to teach the Patrol Leaders how to teach the skills they in turn will teach on the next three campouts.

These Green Bar Overnights are popular with the "older" Scouts.

Also what about Training for the Patrol positions (Grubmaster' date=' Treasurer, Cheermaster, etc) is that all on the PL [/quote']

Yes, in Hillcourt's Patrol Method the Patrol Leader is ALWAYS the expert, in this case because he has done each of those jobs during Patrol Leader Training:

 

(h) Election of Members: to fill the jobs of Patrol Treasurer, Scribe, Quartermaster, Hikemaster, Grubmaster, Cheermaster...Rotate these jobs monthly to give each boy a chance.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/1st.htm

　

I was looking at having our committee Treasurer or ASMs training those positions.

Then they would give a demonstration of each job to the Patrol Leaders at the first Green Bar Patrol Meeting.

For the training described would each of them take on multiple 'roles' as needed in the training ( I have a SPL' date=' 2 PL's) or would the APLs be included as well? (our quartermaster, scribes are just at the Patrol level). [/quote']

 

Yes, the Assistant Patrol Leaders are included as well:

 

The plan provides for you to gather with your Patrol Leaders, Assistant Patrol Leaders and the other leaders of the Troop, for one meeting a month for six months, and for one hike and one short-term camp.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

That would make a Patrol of six for your Troop (counting the Scoutmaster as "Patrol Leader")

Rethinking it a bit…I will likely do an initial training session where we meet and do a high level overview/discussion from the older Patrol Leader Handbook (i.e. job descriptions' date=' handling different types of boys, planning a meeting, hike/campout). Then do the monthly "Intensive Training's"[/quote']

 

Job descriptions, planning a meeting, hike, and campout, even handling different types of boys are all part of the "Intensive Training" meetings, but it is strictly practical hands on, "how to do it" material geared for boys, rather than "high level."

 

In other words, the goal of the course is to teach them by example how to physically lead a Patrol:

 

For this training purpose the Patrol Leaders Council takes on the aspects of a Patrol, with the Scoutmaster as its Patrol Leader, and the boy leaders as members. Throughout this training discussion we shall refer to the Patrol Leaders Council group as the "Green Bar Patrol."

 

This "Green Bar Patrol"... is then conducted in a manner similar to a regular Patrol, with meetings, hikes, camps and special features such as might be planned and executed by a normal Patrol, with the possible exception that many of its activities, such as games, contests, handicrafts, become "condensed," i.e., started as demonstrations of what might be done in a Patrol rather than carried through to their absolute conclusion.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

Hillcourt did assign chapters to be read before each session. I have now added those reading assignments to coordinate the course with the 1950s edition of his Handbook for Patrol Leaders:

 

Example: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/1st.htm

 

 

When you start inferring that other BSA program styles are the basic causes of problems, you are going to get resistance, especially when the examples are not typical of the BSA scouting program. Lets use your suggestion from the other thread to assume other posters here don't have enough experience to know different. Instead of suggesting that scouts don' t need training, a better discussion would be how to get scouts prepared enough to have a positive experience without "over training" them. That is actually a pretty difficult task for the new SM of a new troop. I'm confident that you and I have two different styles to achieving that gaol, but I'm also confident our two different styles are equally successful. Actually I think we are probably very much the same, but we let the clutter get in the way. As you said, lets everyone here give an example of their successful experience and go from there. Barry

So are you saying that the football teams of large, centralized school districts should have more than 300 feet between their end zones, or less?

How about Wood Badge? Did you replace Baden-Powell with Bruce Tuckman?

Moved to Hillcourt-Specific Training

 

The BSA program is designed to get a Cub Scout survivor to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back.

 

If an indoor boy loves paperwork and office manager theory, why not Eagle at twelve?

 

As for proven "leadership ability," how many Eagle Scouts have even one (1) night of what Baden-Powell considered Boy Scout camping? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?

 

Won't be tapped to be a NYLT Staffer? How many NYLT Course Directors experienced as a Boy Scout (or can even define) what Green Bar Bill called a "Real" Patrol? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?

SPOILER ALERT!

The final sentence of my "Leadership Training Weekend" guide to "Master and Commander:"

"Certainly, a tale in which a one-armed 13-year-old boy competently assumes command of a man-of-war ship facing overwhelming odds in a battle at sea would be a poor choice for Scoutmasters who forbid 13-year-old Eagles!"

http://inquiry.net/patrol/training/movies.htm

If we do that correctly' date=' the scouts follow their own vision, not ours. [/quote']

 

That really is the salient point here.

 

I will disagree on the biology comment, however. It is true that biology (physical development) may be an obstacle to effective leadership (because physical size has an advantage), it can be overcome by how the boy handles himself with his peers. That really does come back to the boy, and to training.

Yeah, Brewmeister, I thought I agreed with you, but now I can't tell :-)

The real thing may be cheaper than you think. Always check AddAll.Com for old Scout books. Currently they have 15 copies available for under $5.

The search function is not exact, so check the description before you buy:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lg4j2py

Are you using Hillcourt's Patrol Leader specific "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" course?

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

Some of us have experience in using the course with "21st century Patrol Leaders" if you would like feedback.

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

If we do that correctly' date=' the scouts follow their own vision, not ours. [/quote']

 

That really is the salient point here.

 

I will disagree on the biology comment, however. It is true that biology (physical development) may be an obstacle to effective leadership (because physical size has an advantage), it can be overcome by how the boy handles himself with his peers. That really does come back to the boy, and to training.

Biology?

 

That would be "squeakers:" Twelve-year-old midshipmen in leadership positions over adult gun crews before their voices changed.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/training/movies.htm

The BSA program is designed to get a Cub Scout survivor to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back.

If an indoor boy loves paperwork and office manager theory, why not Eagle at twelve?

As for proven "leadership ability," how many Eagle Scouts have even one (1) night of what Baden-Powell considered Boy Scout camping? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?

Won't be tapped to be a NYLT Staffer? How many NYLT Course Directors experienced as a Boy Scout (or can even define) what Green Bar Bill called a "Real" Patrol? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?

Google Sky!

You point your smart phone (Android, anyway) at the sky and it identifies what lies in that direction (even in the day, which can be interesting). If you point it at the ground, it shows what is currently in the sky in that direction on the other side of the earth (including the location of the sun at night).

The Small Dipper is sometimes too faint to see, so we view it with Google Sky, after the new Scouts show with a green laser how to find the North Star using the pointer stars of the Big Dipper or the Big W (Cassiopeia).

From Wikipedia:

Google Sky is a feature for Google Earth and an online sky/outer space viewer at http://www.google.com/sky. It was created on August 27, 2007.^[1] The application allows users to view a collaboration of images from NASA satellites, the Sloan Digital Sky Survey, and the Hubble Telescope.^[2]

It is available on Android and can be used on a smartphone as an augmented reality application.

(free)

but after a lot of discussion is going to be allowed to attend PLC to see if they want him to teach the class according to his plan. He figured it fit in with the rest of the knot and rope stuff' date=' and based on status of the troop rope box, they all need to learn some rope respect [/quote']

 

So he is going to research the topic, instruct the entire Troop for a month on how to throw a lasso*, and then lead your rope-throwing campout?

 

This should get him started:

 

HOW TO SPIN A ROPE:

Lariat throwing,

Rope Spinning

and Trick Cowboy Knots

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/spin_rope/

 

To introduce the topic with a Scouting context, here is an introduction by one of the BSA's founders, Dan Beard:

 

Lariat

*Properly speaking, there is no such thing as a "lasso." You may lasso things with lariat, but you cannot carry a "lasso," because lasso is a verb, and no cowboy carries a verb coiled at his saddle-bow though he may have strings of forcible adjectives under his tongue...

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/autumn/lariat.htm

 

The OA thing is a failure of the Scoutmaster......You have got to know your boys. You know who is ready or not. Who can pitch a tent and follow directions.

 

But I remember Krampus and his parents saying that his opinion that a boys wasn't ready wasn't good enough. There had to be a rule in writing somewhere.....

"almost 1/2 of the SMs never had a scouting experience, they don't know what honor camping is."

Baden-Powell designed a seven day immersion course to teach indoor volunteers how think like outdoorsmen.

Now we teach indoor volunteers how to think like office managers.

Sometimes PLs need to get their guys back in line. Disciplining one's mates is a very difficult part of leadership. Don't excuse them from this.... Same if you have to confiscate a phone or iPod.

And we wonder why they leave.

Well, ok, I'm enjoying the context of the discussion very much. It's rare to get in deep philosophical and intelectual discussions on this forum because emotions tend to take over. Brewmeister's post is profound to me because it says the issue isn't about tradition and trying to get back to the old ways, it's about understanding why some of the old ways worked. At the root, boys of today are the same of boys of yesterday and we need to understand what makes them tick to understand why the program is more prissy (sissy) or not. I do appreciate Kudus part of the discussion, but sometimes quotes without reasoning just aren't enough. Because of the challenges of WWII, my dad was not only an Eagle, but also a teenage Scoutmaster of his troop back in the early 40's. Through him I can learn what actual scouting was like at least that far back. When I ask him about hiking 14 miles for 1st class, well he laughed. Mind you my dad's troop rarely used vehicles to go camping because of the cost of fuel, they met at the church and hike out of town to their camp site. So it's not like they didn't hike. They were literly a back packing troop. I have a lot of respect for Kudu's vision of scouting and mean no disrepect, but how far back do we have to go to not be prissy or sissy? How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves? As Brewmeister says "We go camping because it is the most useful way of achieving the aims of Scouting". Everything else is just clutter that slows down or even stops that process. I really think that is what Kudu is also trying to say. I would love to ask more questions, but my pragmatic nature sometimes pushes discussions off the edge. So I will just watch and enjoy. Barry

When I moved here the DE did the school hours presentations. When he moved people told me the policy had changed, but a couple days ago our feeder Pack's Cubmaster told me the local schools allow him to recruit on their morning shows. I didn't know that. I substitute for a gym teacher that needs an Eagle Project done for his school, if I was a Scoutmaster I would follow up on that. I would also look for private schools, university "laboratory" schools, as well as public school administers involved in Scouting.

Seek Logic: The fact that it is irrelevant to you that 80% of sixth-grade boys can get just as excited about outdoor adventure as sixth-graders did on June 15, 1916, does NOT in turn prove your assertion that they don't join because of the competition of World of War Craft or Black Ops, because "they lack the stomach for physical discomfort and stress of being outdoors," or because their friends point out that the prissy program promoted by our Chief Scout Executive is "for pussys, or it is gay and for whimps."

Einstein's paraphrase of Spinoza's pantheist "God is the sum total of all the natural laws in the universe" worked for all of eight of my self-declared atheist Scouts over the years, since it does not require belief in the supernatural.

According to one biographer, Baden-Powell and his theologian father (on whose book, "The Order of Nature," B-P based the spiritual aspect of Scouting) were pantheists.

See:

http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm

and

http://inquiry.net/ideals/order_nature/pantheism.htm

As for a pantheistic invocation, how about:

"Heavenly Father, by definition all knees must bend to Thee, as Thou art the sum total of all the natural laws in the universe."

An emblem of faith is easy enough: One of those Baden-Powell portrait patches, worn on the temporary patch pocket.

If you can't find a Baden-Powell patch, simply substitute one of Bruce Tuckman, since nobody in Wood Badge can tell them apart.

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

Well, ok, I'm enjoying the context of the discussion very much. It's rare to get in deep philosophical and intelectual discussions on this forum because emotions tend to take over. Brewmeister's post is profound to me because it says the issue isn't about tradition and trying to get back to the old ways, it's about understanding why some of the old ways worked. At the root, boys of today are the same of boys of yesterday and we need to understand what makes them tick to understand why the program is more prissy (sissy) or not. I do appreciate Kudus part of the discussion, but sometimes quotes without reasoning just aren't enough. Because of the challenges of WWII, my dad was not only an Eagle, but also a teenage Scoutmaster of his troop back in the early 40's. Through him I can learn what actual scouting was like at least that far back. When I ask him about hiking 14 miles for 1st class, well he laughed. Mind you my dad's troop rarely used vehicles to go camping because of the cost of fuel, they met at the church and hike out of town to their camp site. So it's not like they didn't hike. They were literly a back packing troop. I have a lot of respect for Kudu's vision of scouting and mean no disrepect, but how far back do we have to go to not be prissy or sissy? How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves? As Brewmeister says "We go camping because it is the most useful way of achieving the aims of Scouting". Everything else is just clutter that slows down or even stops that process. I really think that is what Kudu is also trying to say. I would love to ask more questions, but my pragmatic nature sometimes pushes discussions off the edge. So I will just watch and enjoy. Barry

Well, ok, I'm enjoying the context of the discussion very much. It's rare to get in deep philosophical and intelectual discussions on this forum because emotions tend to take over. Brewmeister's post is profound to me because it says the issue isn't about tradition and trying to get back to the old ways, it's about understanding why some of the old ways worked. At the root, boys of today are the same of boys of yesterday and we need to understand what makes them tick to understand why the program is more prissy (sissy) or not. I do appreciate Kudus part of the discussion, but sometimes quotes without reasoning just aren't enough. Because of the challenges of WWII, my dad was not only an Eagle, but also a teenage Scoutmaster of his troop back in the early 40's. Through him I can learn what actual scouting was like at least that far back. When I ask him about hiking 14 miles for 1st class, well he laughed. Mind you my dad's troop rarely used vehicles to go camping because of the cost of fuel, they met at the church and hike out of town to their camp site. So it's not like they didn't hike. They were literly a back packing troop. I have a lot of respect for Kudu's vision of scouting and mean no disrepect, but how far back do we have to go to not be prissy or sissy? How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves? As Brewmeister says "We go camping because it is the most useful way of achieving the aims of Scouting". Everything else is just clutter that slows down or even stops that process. I really think that is what Kudu is also trying to say. I would love to ask more questions, but my pragmatic nature sometimes pushes discussions off the edge. So I will just watch and enjoy. Barry

"his friends would pull him a long and say scouting is for pussys or it is gay and for whimps"

The point of this thread is that his friends are correct.

When I give my recruiting presentation, a couple such "hooligans" always sit in the first row and say the same kind of things as we wait for the auditorium to fill. They tell truth to power. Those are my future Patrol Leaders.

"One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction."

--Baden-Powell http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

Scientific Method: Anyone can walk away with the signatures of 80% of sixth-grade boys by thinking like a sixth-grader and using ACTIVE peer pressure:

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

The enemy of Scouting is not the virtual adventure of World of War Craft or Black Ops.

The enemy of Scouting is the ADULT peer-pressure of Leadership Development; Schoolwork Merit Badges; Position of Responsibility requirements; Scout Spirit requirements; Scoutmaster Conferences; Boards of Review; Eagle Projects; a Cub-Scout "Controlled Failure" Outdoor Program for Teens, and all the other anti-Baden-Powell things that boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

how far back do we have to go to not be prissy?

Answer: June 15, 1916

The Boy Scouts of America agreed to that standard because the 1916 program (as defined by the advancement requirements) is a timeless, perfectly reasonable 21st century "core program" standard of Scoutcraft:

http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm

Given modern lightweight equipment and the invention of the backpack waist strap, our nation's legal definition of Scouting is far easier to meet now than it was in 1916.

"Prissy" is a polite euphemism for the term used by tens of millions of boys who have quit (or would never join a Cub Scout program for teens).

How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves?

Answer: 14 miles

To prove themselves equal to the international standard of a First Class Scout.

Star (Scout Cord) is a similar two day, one night Journey

Life (Bushman's Cord) requires a Journey of at least 20 miles on foot or by boat, with not more than 3 other Scouts.

Eagle (King's Scout) requires the Scout to lead an "Expedition" of not more than 5 other Scouts at least 50 miles in wild country by land or water, with 3 nights spent at different campsites, or by horse back at least 200 miles in wild country.

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

What red-blooded American boy would not prefer to "prove" his leadership skills in such an outdoor-specific program?

Well, ok, I'm enjoying the context of the discussion very much. It's rare to get in deep philosophical and intelectual discussions on this forum because emotions tend to take over. Brewmeister's post is profound to me because it says the issue isn't about tradition and trying to get back to the old ways, it's about understanding why some of the old ways worked. At the root, boys of today are the same of boys of yesterday and we need to understand what makes them tick to understand why the program is more prissy (sissy) or not. I do appreciate Kudus part of the discussion, but sometimes quotes without reasoning just aren't enough. Because of the challenges of WWII, my dad was not only an Eagle, but also a teenage Scoutmaster of his troop back in the early 40's. Through him I can learn what actual scouting was like at least that far back. When I ask him about hiking 14 miles for 1st class, well he laughed. Mind you my dad's troop rarely used vehicles to go camping because of the cost of fuel, they met at the church and hike out of town to their camp site. So it's not like they didn't hike. They were literly a back packing troop. I have a lot of respect for Kudu's vision of scouting and mean no disrepect, but how far back do we have to go to not be prissy or sissy? How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves? As Brewmeister says "We go camping because it is the most useful way of achieving the aims of Scouting". Everything else is just clutter that slows down or even stops that process. I really think that is what Kudu is also trying to say. I would love to ask more questions, but my pragmatic nature sometimes pushes discussions off the edge. So I will just watch and enjoy. Barry

If you actually stand in front of an audience of skeptical sixth-graders and present Scouting as the adventure of June 15, 1916 (knives, matches, rattlesnakes, and bears), 70-80% of them will, in front of their peers, sign a list asking you to call their parents so they can be a Boy Scout.

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting_boy_scouts_public_schools.htm

That 70-80% does NOT include the Cub Scout survivors in the audience that are ALREADY Boy Scouts. 2%? 5?

Well, ok, I'm enjoying the context of the discussion very much. It's rare to get in deep philosophical and intelectual discussions on this forum because emotions tend to take over. Brewmeister's post is profound to me because it says the issue isn't about tradition and trying to get back to the old ways, it's about understanding why some of the old ways worked. At the root, boys of today are the same of boys of yesterday and we need to understand what makes them tick to understand why the program is more prissy (sissy) or not. I do appreciate Kudus part of the discussion, but sometimes quotes without reasoning just aren't enough. Because of the challenges of WWII, my dad was not only an Eagle, but also a teenage Scoutmaster of his troop back in the early 40's. Through him I can learn what actual scouting was like at least that far back. When I ask him about hiking 14 miles for 1st class, well he laughed. Mind you my dad's troop rarely used vehicles to go camping because of the cost of fuel, they met at the church and hike out of town to their camp site. So it's not like they didn't hike. They were literly a back packing troop. I have a lot of respect for Kudu's vision of scouting and mean no disrepect, but how far back do we have to go to not be prissy or sissy? How far do our sons have to hike alone in the woods over night to prove themselves? As Brewmeister says "We go camping because it is the most useful way of achieving the aims of Scouting". Everything else is just clutter that slows down or even stops that process. I really think that is what Kudu is also trying to say. I would love to ask more questions, but my pragmatic nature sometimes pushes discussions off the edge. So I will just watch and enjoy. Barry

Moved To

Per the OP's question... a strong yes. I see the softness' date=' and lack of outdoor skills everytime I take a crew out on the river.... I've had crews in the past loaded with Eagles who's outdoor's skill sets were no better then Tenderfoots! [/quote']

 

Tenderfoot is about right.

 

In what Baden-Powell called Scouting, every rank is tested by a backwoods Journey of increasing difficulty.

 

In some countries, the test of Second Class is an eight mile backwoods map work Journey without adults or older Scouts to guide you. How many Eagle Scouts have followed a map & compass for eight miles without two-deep helicopters? One in ten thousand?

 

According to Baden-Powell, the test of a First Class Scout is a fourteen mile overnight by backpack or boat, solo or with another Second Class Scout.

 

Likewise after First Class, most Journey tests are either land or boat:

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

 

However, the whole point of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b is to get indoor prissy boys to Eagle without a single night of what Baden-Powell called "camping."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong: Camping is the ONLY Merit Badge that lets you do something else if you don't like the subject matter (walk into the woods with a pack on your back)!

 

Imagine how popular the BSA would be if we offered a "requirement 9b" for EVERY Merit Badge!

 

"Oh, so you don't like Personal Management because you are a normal boy? That's OK! Here, instead you can ride your bike around for four hours and then eat cup cakes while floating downstream on an inner tube, just like you did for 'Camping' Merit Badge requirement 9b!"

 

 

My post was clear: In what Baden-Powell called Scouting, sleeping in a canvas town did not get you much past Tenderfoot.

 

Le Voyageur's assessment is literally the same as that of Baden-Powell.

 

Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b dumbs down the previous requirement 8b: "On one of these camping trips, hike 1.5 miles or more each way to and from your campsite. Pack your own gear plus your share of patrol gear and food."

 

The international standard for First Class (including the Scoutcraft program specified in our Congressional Charter) is 14 or 15 miles without adult supervision.

 

To walk three (3) miles in the woods with a pack on your back was too high a standard for Eagle Scouts.

 

Prissy much?