Kudu

Per the OP's question... a strong yes. I see the softness' date=' and lack of outdoor skills everytime I take a crew out on the river.... I've had crews in the past loaded with Eagles who's outdoor's skill sets were no better then Tenderfoots! [/quote']

 

Tenderfoot is about right.

 

In what Baden-Powell called Scouting, every rank is tested by a backwoods Journey of increasing difficulty.

 

In some countries, the test of Second Class is an eight mile backwoods map work Journey without adults or older Scouts to guide you. How many Eagle Scouts have followed a map & compass for eight miles without two-deep helicopters? One in ten thousand?

 

According to Baden-Powell, the test of a First Class Scout is a fourteen mile overnight by backpack or boat, solo or with another Second Class Scout.

 

Likewise after First Class, most Journey tests are either land or boat:

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

 

However, the whole point of Camping Merit Badge requirement 9b is to get indoor prissy boys to Eagle without a single night of what Baden-Powell called "camping."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong: Camping is the ONLY Merit Badge that lets you do something else if you don't like the subject matter (walk into the woods with a pack on your back)!

 

Imagine how popular the BSA would be if we offered a "requirement 9b" for EVERY Merit Badge!

 

"Oh, so you don't like Personal Management because you are a normal boy? That's OK! Here, instead you can ride your bike around for four hours and then eat cup cakes while floating downstream on an inner tube, just like you did for 'Camping' Merit Badge requirement 9b!"

 

 

 

 

* 1) Scout Camping: By Patrol (KUDU's 300 feet), Troop (adults in the midst and large cooking arrangements), hike in, backpack in, self contained.

If the Patrol System was included in the "mountaintop experience" of Boy Scout training, the 300 foot minimum distance between Patrols would be commonly known as "Baden-Powell's 300 feet."

You are correct to list Boy Scout camping as a subset of Cub Scout camping. For Camping Merit Badge to qualify as a Boy Scout award in Baden-Powell's program, it would require "scouting" (lower case) in his military sense of the word (the ability to move miles through the back woods):

1) Patrol Scouting: Scoutcraft learned in at least monthly Patrol Hikes and/or Patrol Campouts (in common with Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrols).

2) Individual Scouting: The Scoutcraft of each rank tested by a solitary or buddy backpack or canoe "Journey" without adult supervision.

The backpacking meals do not have to be done on a actual backpacking trip' date=' just using the methods. [/quote']

 

This makes it consistent with Camping Merit Badge, which is designed to get Cub Scout survivors to Eagle without ever walking into the woods with packs on their backs.

This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.

A naïve prospect would immediately associate the BSA with "Scouting," but we pay a guy a million dollars a year to badmouth Scoutcraft in the name of Wood Badge.

It's as if Congress granted the Yellow Cab Corporation a monopoly on "Taxi" on June 15, 2016. You call for a taxi on June 16th, but a guy arrives at your house to teach you "leadership skills."

No patrol camping? What?

Do you really want RichardB to decide exactly how closely leadership skills helicopters must hover? His centennial attack on the Patrol Method followed a "request for clarification" a member of another Scouting forum sent him to settle similar questions about Patrol camping. Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Our Patrols with serious Patrol Leaders do camp a mile away on backpacking trips, but backwoods adventure filters out most of the troublemakers, and the Patrol Leaders ban the rest.

We allow electronics in the backwoods too, so a mile is not very far.

No patrol camping? What?

RichardB celebrated the BSA's centennial by finally putting the Patrol Method out of its misery with a bullet through its brain in the "Guide to Safe Scouting."

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Who's "we," white man?

If your priority is Leadership Development's "Controlled Failure:" Elections every six months so that Positions of Responsibility change hands often then, yes, you must pack your Patrols in close together like Cub Scouts so that "we" adults "can respond in a more timely manner."

On the other hand, if like Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill you guide your most mature and gifted leaders to be Patrol Leaders, then they will handle the pyromaniac tendencies of boys just as well as they did before the invention of "Leadership Development," back when Scouting was popular.

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

I think you are the first person in the history of the Internet to admit to such a thing!

Patrol camping out of sight of the adults once made every campout a "favorite outing."

To do so safely requires strong Patrol Leaders.

BSA has to protect the brand or will lose it. Simple fact of life.

"...hypothetically a car club called 'International Harvester Scout Owners'."

I believe that the BSA went to court over the use of "Scout" as a vehicle name. Can anyone a Google a reference to it?

They did sue the GSUSA over the term "Girl Scouts:"

http://www.inquiry.net/adult/bsa_vs_gsusa.htm

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Some of our backpacking crews. Patrols are camped 300 feet apart:

http://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet

Parents are overrated.

 

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

 

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

But these are serious leaders.

I wonder why everyone is avoiding this thread now...

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

To this day' date=' they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior... A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready [/quote']

 

 

Imagine how popular Scouting would be if the test of "leadership skills" was the ability to camp a Patrol at least Baden-Powell's minimum 300 feet away.

rubbing two sticks together while staying 300 feet away from other patrols (did I step on everybody's toes yet?)

Your heels are in good company: The BSA's Chief Scout Executive uses the term "rubbing two sticks together" to express his contempt for Scoutcraft.

Just curious: Have you ever camped Boy Scout Patrols Baden-Powell's minimum distance apart?

In the past 15 years, I personally have had to catch a runaway horse three times. So that begs the question how many times have any First Class scout had to perform CPR? NONE? Gee, maybe we ought to drop that too. I have had to do it 7 times and I'm glad I've had the training. Hmmm, lets do the math here. 3 horses in 15 years, 7 CPR's in 60 years. That kinda averages out to once ever 5 years for horses and once every 10 years for CPR. Yep, gonna drop my bi-annual CPR training and buy a rope. (Don't cha just love it when people start tossing statistics around?)

 

People just have to make sure their brain is engaged when they give gas to their tongue.

 

Stosh

I'm OK with going along with the people who have posted that MB's go along with the skills of the day.

I'm just not so sure about " Low-Rent".

Here in the area where I live, the units that are viewed as being good tend to be in the areas where rents are anything but low.

Not for want of trying. We don't have anything that might be seen as a unit that caters to any ethnic group.

Walk around our Summer Camp and it's rare to see a face that isn't white.

Eamonn.

"Prepared. For Life." is ... Less and less about scoutcraft and survival and more about plotting one's career and making life choices.

The Chief Scout Executive said as much in when he introduced "Prepared. For Life." as the opposite of the Scoutcraft of June 15, 1916:

"Did you know that there was a time when to be a First Class Scout--you guys didn't know this I bet--did you guys have to learn how to catch a runaway horse to be a First Class Scout? When was the last time you saw a runaway horse?"

Parents are overrated.

 

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

 

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

But these are serious leaders.

The Patrol System is based on physical distance.

Troop campouts work the same with two adults, or six.

Parents are overrated.

 

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

 

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

But these are serious leaders.

Parents are overrated.

 

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

 

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

But these are serious leaders.

Questions 1&2: I usually set the price at $10 per campout (which includes a good Dutch oven supper on Saturday), + a small refund. Money usually comes from the parents, but sometimes directly from the paper route Scouts' pockets...funny story about why I started permission slips --> a pair of European brothers who always paid their own way, and one weekend forgot to tell their parents we were going camping...

As for the number of adults on a regular campout, in the last urban Troop of which I was Scoutmaster, usually me and one other adult, unless you count the cigarette-smoking 14-16 year-old SPL who actually ran the Troop for my last two years. He joined the army on his 17th birthday, a couple weeks after I moved to Florida.

High Adventure always attracts more adults.

Backpacking: Maybe four to six on the low mileage Scouts' route (Patrols camped at least a football field apart), zero accompany the higher mileage Scouts when they plan to meet up with adults at a common destination before dark.

Scuba in a rural Florida Troop: One adult per two youth divers (total of 20 divers), including at least one certified divemaster with the ten to fourteen year-old divers.

I'm not sure what you are really asking...

Don't overlook the power of action photography on Facebook.

 

"Here's what my son Jimmy did this weekend!"

 

A surprising number of parents in other Packs around the county are "friends" on Facebook.

As for youth, most of our Boy Scouts have hundreds of "friends," so announcements scroll by unnoticed by them.

Don't overlook the power of action photography on Facebook.

"Here's what my son Jimmy did this weekend!"

I could see the parents in the background cringing. Any thoughts on getting the parents engaged?????

 

 

Yes, if you offer backpacking, climbing, scuba, canoe trips, shotgun, on a regular basis, word will get around, and high adventure parents, district/community/friends of friends will volunteer for those trips. These are adults who want NO part of typical BSA monthly campouts.

 

As for regular recruiting:

 

Consider a Facebook, YouTube, and Web presence: We get a slow but steady stream of Scouts who transfer to us from standard Troops. I plan to add Google+ soon.

 

Also, we make sure that Scouts earning the 1st Class "tell a friend or lapsed Scout about Scouting" requirement, to bring their friend to a cool campout (they do NOT have to register). Figure another 10% per year there.

 

And, of course, anyone with access to a public or private school can bring in an extra twelve (12) to twenty registered Scouts per year using my 6th Grade Recruiting Presentation:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

Parents are overrated.

 

What do you need them for, other than driving? Most parents are happy to do that a couple times a year.

 

Baden-Powell's version of Scouting requires neither parents nor an SPL. The Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

But these are serious leaders.

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/

 

What if another youth group, say the "1911 Scouts" formed and decided to use the requirements listed in your link?

That describes the various Baden-Powell Scouts associations, except they are based on B-P's more rugged Patrol System and badge requirements, with the specific year of either 1938 or 1965.