kenk

Just thinking ... some might say that the larger (higher) tents don't do well in strong wind, but they are all built with supplimental lines that are to be staked out in high wind conditions. The manual will tell you how. Even the smaller dome tents need these supplimental lines when windy. Also, ALWAYS make sure you stake down the tent!!!!

My suggestion is to replace the lines that come with the tent, which are black, with orange parachute cord (http://www.countycom.com - follow the "other items" link - kind of an odd site, but they have a good reputation and FANTASTIC orange parachute cord - I love the stuff!!). That way kids are less likely to trip over it. Also make great lanyards for knives, flaglights, whistles, etc so you can more easily find them when dropped in grass.

I too heartily recommend Eureka tents. Eureka's quality is MUCH better than Coleman's (though I've heard Coleman has improved its quality in recent years). You just will not go wrong buying a Eureka tent (I have four of them).

With a family of four I would recommend you look at tents that claim to sleep six (room for gear and elbows).

I'd recommend something like the Eureka Headquarters ($300 from campmor.com), which is a modern version of a two-room cabin tent (12'x8.5', 7' high), or the Eureka Kahuna ($370), which is a two-room rectangular dome-style tent (11'x7.5', 6' high). The multiple rooms are nice when different genders want some privacy dressing.

I myself have Eureka Lodge, which is discontinued, but very much resembles the Headquarters tent. It has an 8'x10' sleeping area with an attached 6'x10' screen room. The Headquarters (and Lodge) tent has VERY heavy duty aluminum poles like those of the Timberline tents, as opposed to the thinner fiberglass or aluminum poles that smaller dome tents have - much more kid-proof.

The 6-person Timberline is a solid tent with many years of improvements, but because of the A-frame shape, it may not be as suitable for a family with kids who might need to spend exptended tent time during rainy weather - plus it costs about the same as the Headquarters.

Hopefully time has healed your pain a bit.

I'm curious if you had looked to see if there was another troop in the area that you could have moved to. I'm sure they would have been more than happy to have an excited experienced boy join their troop.

Please don't let one painful experience sour you on Scouting. It is a wonderful program that means a lot to bazillions of parents and boys. There are a lot of great adult and youth leaders in Scouting that live the Scout Law every day.

It unfortunately sounds like the apple you pulled out of the apple was a bit rotten. Even rotten apples can grow impressive apple trees though ... it just takes time.

I am a Webelos Den Leader who's boys will be Webelos II in the fall. As is typical, our den is looking forward to camping with several Boy Scout troops and we are hoping to take several short hikes.

When making recommendations for hiking boots, should I suggest they stick to 100% leather boots, which could more easily by waterproofed? I'm guessing 100% leather boots would likely be expensive. When I was a kid - back in the 60's - we used the higher working-type boots. I would guess most use the mid-height boots these days. Or am I wrong there?

The part-fabric type are nice, and usually less expensive, but it seems the boys would have to buy the much more expensive Gortex lined models in order make them waterproof. I hear the Gortex in boots has a very limited life before they start leaking.

My thought is that the non-Gortex part-fabric boot would get soaked if walking in morning dew or wet weather.

I did come across a few troops that specifically ban locking blade knives. My guess was that either they felt a locking blade was so similar to a sheath knife that it shouldn't be used (I don't think the 1.5" locking Gerber Micro LST I carry every day would fall into that category), OR that a cheap folding knife - who's locking mechanism might have a chance of failing - might be more dangerous than a non-locking folding knife (that would be a concern, but easy to test for locking strength).

Anyway, here is a useful link to state knife laws:

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

Keep in mind that there are other laws that might apply such as in some cities, federal properties, and national parks/monuments.

OneHour,

Your ps is correct. I suppose I'm so used to the Day Camp scenario - where the adult leadership is primarily kids' parents who don't want to be there in the first place. The first day of Cub Scout Day Camp three years ago I was called and asked to come remove him because of his meltdowns. Like I said, all he needs is a near-adult (an older Scout would be well) that can help him calm down after a meltdown (which are getting better as he ages).

In Boy Scouts my son will be with youth and adult leaders who will have a chance to get to know him. I will say that I have been more than impressed with the youth leadership at Cub Scout Day Camp.

Lately we've purchased several books on Asperger's Syndrome that are written to be read by kids in hopes he'll share them with his classroom and his den. Much of his problem is simply that people misinterpret why he thinks/acts the way he does.

In the back of my mind though I fear that if they know he is has AS, then they'll bully him even more. AS is a tough condition for kids to have - they call them "bully magnets" or "the perfect targets".

My only solice in the long run is that he'll be VERY big (likely 6' 7" by mid high school) and has been in Taekwando for two years now and plans to continue(learning how to focus and how to defend himself both physically and mentally, if necessary).

My son, who is currently Webelos 1, has Asperger's Syndrome. It is an often misunderstood and misinterpreted condition. Many adults, with all good intentions, see AS kids as weird, argumentative, troublesome, unorganized, and, well, the list goes on.

Though AS is recognized, well defined, and well documented, it is subtle enough that most adult will feel that AS child should not get special consideration. I often say that my son would be sometimes be better off if he'd been bore with full-blown autism, muscular distrophy, or blind. At least with these conditions adults would understand.

AS kids need just a little help from adults. Adults dealing with AS kids need to have a bit of training on what it is and how to deal with it. Its not complicated.

I would demand that your Council intervene in this matter.

Ken

Very Cool! You should have a great time.

I went to the 1973 Jamboree in Idaho when I was a boy. It was lots of fun.

One bit of advice I'd give based upon my experience as a youth is to do as much as you can to get the patrols together beforehand so they have time to get to know each other, to bond, and to gain that "patrol" mentality. It doesn't have to be camping - it can be several one-day activities that have patrols work together on skills or goals, much like a Klondike Derby.

Oh man, do I dread having to go through what you're going through right now.

My son will be Webelos II next year and will graduate to a troop in Spring 2006. He has Asperger's Syndrome (AS), which means he definitely has some social issues (he's a NICE kid - just doesn't understand how to behave or get along sometimes) and problems organizing (completing requirements). For example it is very common to find him arguing very loud about something simply because my doesn't understand the whole situation. My son thinks "he's right", when he might not be. But he can't let it go. Another problem is when he has a melt down either because he didn't win a game, or because he couldn't complete a project on time. It can ruin the rest of his day. All of these are very typical AS.

In Webelos I'm trying to have him organize completion of the Activity requirements, but it is very hard for him to do on his own. He learns new skills VERY fast (typical AS) but struggles to plan ahead and organize (also typical AS). At least he's trying.

As you say, my plan is to help him learn skills at home - at least those that he can learn at home, but to be as hands off as possible. Because of the AS, I will likely try to be at most activities - to help handle any AS-related situations that arrise - but otherwise to stay in the background and help where ever needed. I've done that at Cub Scout Day Camp the last two years, and that seems to work well. This summer I will do the same, but try to stay even more in the background as far as my son is concerned. He just doesn't do well unless there is at least one adult that understand his AS issues and steps in when they flame up.

I was very glad to hear that many troop put boys into a "new scout" patrol. This should help a lot, especially if a bunch of boys from his current den join the same troop.

Most likely my son and I will have to have a discussion with his adult and youth leaders so they know what AS is and how to help deal with my son's special issues/needs.

I just happened across this site today.

http://www.troop97.net/bshb1.htm

Boy Scouts gives relatively little guidance as the the selection of a folding knife. I've search and searched on the internet and it seems the #1 recommendation by Troops is the standard Boy Scout Pocketknife, though some Troops recommend a locking blade. Some require blades

Yeah, I still have my Yucca pack. It still has my big leather 1973 National Jamboree patch sewn on it. I loved that thing.

As I recall, my brother had an older style that had leather buckles that held the small flap on the front down but mine has red cord ties. It seemed that the leather didn't do well over time.

Now I'll have to go down to the basement and look at it to be sure.

I was told that the military has decided that when the flag worn on the right shoulder, the field is to be closest to the heart AND such that when moving forward it appears to "wave", so the flag's field is on the forward side, thus it appears backward.

See

https://www-perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/FAQ/FAQ.htm

Scouts wear the flag the opposite way. Neither is wrong since the positioning of the flag on a uniform is not specified in the U.S. Flag Code.

I understand. Thanks.

The reason Venturing is so much on our mind is that my 3rd grade daughter is already tiring of Girl Scouts and is excited about Venturing. She has met several Venturing teens at the Cub Scout Day Camp family events and really liked them - really impressive young kids.

Its not because the Girl Scout program can't meet her "needs", but because the parental leadership doesn't have the outdoor skills/inclination, and my daughter LOOOVVVEESS the outdoors.

Yes, I probably should be more involved, but I'm already mildly overtasked with Cub Scouts AND the other girls don't really seem to be the outdoors types.

My son plans on joining a Boy Scout Troop next year. I would assume he'd make First Class by the time he and his sister are old enough to join a Venture Crew. I'm sure my daughter won't care about the rank issue so long as she gets to camp/hike or whatever.

I am waaayyy ahead of myself considering my son is just ending his first year of Webelos, but since it is on my mind I'll ask....

Can boys (and girls?) in a Venturing Crew advance through the ranks of Star, Life, and Eagle? Or, are these ranks only to be earned by a boy in a Boy Scout Troop?

I searched through old posts and see hints of advancement and dual-membership issues, but not a clear answer, so your answers are appreciated.

You certainly reacted the way I could only hope I would have. Please don't feel that you did anything wrong.

I'm just not sure that this should turn into some kind of inquisition. It seems that the troop needs to make amends to the campground. Maybe have the troop's leadership get together with the campground owners and identify several service projects that need to be done and that could be done by the boys.

Then spend the next few months working on these projects (I like the silence idea, but it could be tough to comply with for boys). To make sure the boys show up for these projects, make it clear that participation in the service projects is mandatory for participation in the month's outings.

My ultimate goal is to show the campground owner that Scouts will do the right thing ... and let peer pressure from those Scouts who know who did the damage dole its own kind of punishment.

Based upon the description on page 241, the only thing that might affect the natural setting is the clearing of the stones and sticks that might poke you or damage the bottom of a tent. A

The rest of the section talks about using a ground cloth, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, blankets, and storing your gear.

Assuming the clearling of stones and sticks is done with care, and you're not clearing a densely forested area or a gravely outcropping, preparing a ground bed should be very LNT friendly.

The thing I'm still struggling with is ... should boys bring TWO ground cloths - one for under the tent and another for inside the tent?

I interpret the GTSS term "guardian" as "legal guardian".

With that in mind, one common GTSS mistake is allowing the boy and an uncle to sleep in the same tent. This is NOT allowed (unless of course the uncle IS the legal guardian).

The only real alternative is to have the boy sleep in a tent with another Scout, and to have their parents/guardians sleep nearby in separate tents.

You have really opened my eyes to the Webelos Den to Boy Scout Patrol transition process. Thanks so very much.

I'm currently the Den Leader for 6 great boys who will be Webelos 2 next school year. I feel part of my job is to expose the boys/parents to as many troops in the area as possible and to leave the troop selection decision up to the boy/parents. Even so, there is already a strong den pressure to keep the boys together as they move on to a troop.

Any advice or words of wisdom?? Both from a parental and a Den Leader perspective.

Eagerleader,

In response to your question: "So, knowing this now, do I step down as DL and remove my kids from Cub Scouting?"

The straight answer to both, based upon the information you've given, is yes to both. You should step down as DL and your son should remove himself from Cub Scouting. You and your son simply do not meet the requirements for membership.

In all seriousness, my daughter faced the same thing. Three years or so back she was furious that she couldn't be a Cub Scout just because she was a girl. She too didn't meet the requirements for membership. As in your case, there is simply nothing we could do about it and were forced to accept it and move on. I'm not making this up.

You might consider doing what we did - consider enrolling your son in Taekwando. It does wonders for the mind, body, and spirit, but does not have gender (or religious) requirements. A very impressive experience.

It hasn't been said yet, but ... make sure to buy cast iron, as opposed to cast aluminum.

1. Cast Aluminum can melt if heated to hot

2. Cast Aluminum can be hard to hold temperature on a windy cool day

3. Cast Iron, if taken care of, will last generations.

I've read somewhere that the best way to store the dutch oven is to clean it (no soap) and store it in a brown paper bag (to allow it to breath and to keep dust/dirt out. Don't store it in a plastic bag.

Buy a high quality 12" wide Camp Dutch Oven. I myself like the Lodge cast iron, but there are other quality brands too. My 12" oven is the deeper (8 qt) kind. Don't forget to get a good lid lifter.

Here is a great site for info:

http://www.macscouter.com/Cooking/DutchOven.html

Other bits to consider:

When we have our Pack campout, our Pack tends to camp by den (much like a Boy Scout Troop camps by patrol). This makes it easier to plan the gear and food, plus gives the smaller groups a chance to sit around the fire and tell stories (in addition to the bigger Pack campfire on Saturday night). We've found that amoung the parents in each den there is usually sufficient "gear" to cook meals.

The parents work together to cook meals and clean up, though as the boys age we've tried to get them more and more involved in meal planning, food prep, and cleanup.

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND each den provide some kind of dining fly like shelter for rain protection!! Just imagine that it starts raining at 4pm on Saturday afternoon. Would you expect the boys to spend the rest of the day/night inside their tents or cars? You can buy plasticish shelters pretty cheaply.

Another bit of advice - to protect the tents - is to have parents leave any non-critical guy lines (ropes that pull sides of tents out to provide more interior space) unstaked until bedtime just so boys don't trip over them while running around - which could damage the boy and the tent.

For safety, our den purchased whistles that come on telephone-cord-like wrist bands (from http://www.orientaltradingcompany.com . Search for "whistle". They only cost $3 per dozen. They are warned that these are NOT toys and should only be used if they get lost. I strongly recommend each boy in your pack carry a whistle and a large garbage bag.

My den also bought little cheap fanny packs from the same company (search on "fanny"), and put the whistles and large garbage bag inside the fanny pack. We found orange bags, but any color will do. They are told have carry the fanny pack at all times. See http://www.gpsar.org/hugatree.html for more info.

Also, we do require each parent to provide their own tent. Most end up buying Coleman brand tents from the local Target, Walmart, etc... They'll use them at each year's campout, so it is worth spending a bit on a decent tent.

Finally, you may run across one or two boys that for some reason are just deathly afraid of camping. What we've done for this is to ask the boy to "try" to sleep overnight. We tell the parent that if the boy is really too scared to stay, then to leave quietly during the night leaving all their gear in place. Then the next morning they can come back to rejoin the den/pack and to break down their camping gear when the time comes. If something comes up, the rest of the den would just pack up their gear for them and make sure it gets back to them in good condition. The goal is to make this a enjoyable as possible with no fear, or embarassment.

Chapstick is definitely not just for girls.

When I was there as a kid (I was there with my parents but too young to backpack - it more like a summer camp) I got what seemed at the time like a near fatal case of chapped lips. It was really really bad.

As I had mentioned, when my boys became Webelos they all switched to the tan uniforms. They were excited about it, no complaints from parents, and some of them were a bit snug in the blue shirts they were swimming in as Wolves.

During this school year - before they earned their Webelos badge - they've been wearing the 4-badge configuration using either a commercial badge holder or a homemade version (badges sewn on red felt with a loop sewn on).

We'll go with the oval badges. To be honest I'm sad to see my son's 4-badge diamond come off the uniform. Many many great memories for both him and myself.