kenk

By the way, I have noticed the same thing at family campgrounds. Many sites seem to run smoldering fires all day. At the last campground the air was filled with smoke. I wondered what the EPA's stance on campground pollution was.

Not that I'm being grumpy - mostly that it is unnecessary pollution and a waste of wood. I LOVE campfires - at night.

During our Cub Scout Pack's overnighter, which was also attended by one of our local Boy Scout Troops, I couldn't help but notice that the patrols essentially kept a fire going all day long. Most of the time it was smoking more than burning - to the point that the smoke became irritating while the Scouts gave presentations to the Cubs.

My memory of Scouting was to light a fire at night, mostly for story-telling and fun - all our cooking was over charcoal. Except for winter camping, I don't recall lighting a fire during the day.

What do your troops do?

Mike,

I'm wondering what your thoughts are?

Most Scout leaders will probably follow the BSA rules - any boy who has earned the Whittling Chip card may carry a knife, so long as allowed by other entities (school, parks, etc...).

My own experience with our Bear den has a tremendous breadth of common sense and responsibility, though they are maturing quickly. Some boys could easily be trusted to carry a knife and use it responsibly, but other boys could be dangerous to themselves and others. That is why I'm leaving it up to the parents to make the decision. They know their boys better than me.

At our recent Pack Overnight, we recommended that ALL boys leave thier knives home. Our pack has done that for the years I've been involved. I'm not so sure if that is necessary though. Again, if the parent camping with the boy thinks its OK, then it is fine with me.

I just finished up the year as a Den Leader for Bear Cub Scouts. Here are my thoughts.

First, for most boys of Cub Scout or Webelos age knives should be controlled by parents and "checked out" to the boy for use. I would strongly suggest that parents closely monitor use of the knife when it is checked out.

I would suggest that boys get plenty of practice whittling on several pieces of ivory soap with a good heavy butter knife just to get a feel for controlling a blade. They will almost certainly cut themselves when using real knives, but you might as well put that off as long as possible.

I had my share of cuts from learning to use knives properly, and certainly remember having my Boy Scout pocketknife accidently close on my fingers. The nastiest cuts were on the back & side of my left pointer finger from "misses" when I was holding something with my left hand, cutting with my right hand, and not watching where the blade was going to go when it slipped. I also remember letting my hand slip forward over the blade and cutting the inside of my right pointer finger.

While many (most?) might suggest the boys acquire a Cub Scout or Boy Scout pocketknife, my own preference is for the boys to use a small locking-blade non-serrated knife. The locking blade prevents accidental folding. The serrated knives are too hard to sharpen and will give really really nasty cuts if there is a slip. I was also looking for knives that had some kind of hilt-like feature between the blade and handle that prevents accidental movement of the fingers up over the blade. Not many folders have this feature.

I also want the knife to be high enough quality to work smoothly and take a good edge, but not cost too much if it gets lost. I tended to look for something under $20.

I did a lot of searching for a knife for my son (just starting Webelos now) and my daughter (a year younger). Most lock-blade knifes were just too big for them to comfortably use or just too expensive to risk loss.

Much to my wife's dismay, I bought several potential knifes from http://www.knifecenter.com (nice site, nice people, decent prices) and let the kids select the one they felt most comfortable with. I tended to find the Gerber knives to provide the highest quality with the lowest prices. There are many other great knive companies out there (Buck and others), but their prices were much higher.

Last year I purchased one of the locking blade Swiss Army knives. Nice knife, not as well built as a Gerber or Buck lock-blades, but the blade is much too long for a beginner.

My son liked the Gerber Magnum LST Jr (junior) fine edge. Though the name makes it sound big, it has a 2.63" locking blade, and a nice grip that makes it VERY unlikely his hand will accidentily slide onto the blade. The cost about $17. This is probably my own choice for a beginner's knife.

My daughter liked the Gerber LST II, which is an updated version of the original Gerber LST. It has a 2.56" locking blade, but unfortunately doesn't provide hilt-type feature to prevent my daughter's finger from slipping up onto the blade. I actually encouraged her to consider the Magnum LST Jr., but she found it too hard to press the locking button on the back of the knife. The LST II's button is definitely easier to operate. It cost about $21.

Another of the knives I purchased was a Gerber Gator Mate - a smaller version of the Gerber Gator that cost about $26. It's blade is 3.13", which we found to be a little too long to be comfortable for my kids. It would make a great knife for a young Boy Scout though.

My own opinion is that scouts should carry knives in a way that leaders know they have them - either in sheath on a belt, or hanging from a carabeener or similar. I tend to prefer a sheath. The two smaller Gerber LST knives do not come with sheaths. I found the small generic nylon sheath (part # SH236) sold at knifecenter.com for $3 fit perfectly. The Gerber Gater Mate comes with a nylon sheath.

My own favorite, for me, is the Buck Alpha Hunter Drop Point Folder w/ Rosewood handle. The rosewood version has a much better blade material than the rubber handled version. It comes with a beautiful leather sheath, but I find myself using the medium generic nylon sheath (part # SH237 that I bought in my attempt to find sheaths for the kid's knives. It was kind of expensive though, and is a bit heavy.

If I were to purchase a less expensive alternative, I would almost certainly purchase a Gerber Gator Drop Point.

This is probably more than you wanted to know, but I thought I'd share my experiences.

A happy story with a sad ending . . .

I was about 13 years old and on my way to the National Jamboree in Oregon with a bus full of fellow scouts. The bus broke down outside of a small town - Libby, Montana. The troop's leadership apparently contacted a church in the town who responded by taking the boys into their homes for the night. Three other boys and I spent the night with a delightfull family. They feed us eggs and fresh trout for breakfast. They took us on a tour of their town's plywood factory in the afternoon. The bus was ready to go on the second morning, and off we went to Oregon.

Though for the life of me I can't remember their names, I'll never forget the care and hospitality those people gave to complete strangers.

Recently my wife and I saught additional information about Libby as a potential retirement location. We were horrified to find out that in addition to the plywood factory, Libby's other main industry involved a vermiculte mine. The dust created by the mine has apparently covered that town in dust that has been linked with cancer. It broke my heart.

I just got a new dutch oven and am currently in the midst of seasoning it on my gas grill. After reading a bunch of related web sites, I still have two questions:

#1 - I read that uneven heating can be dangerous to cast iron - maybe even leading to warping or cracking. Can I use my 12" deep Lodge D.O. like a pot on top of a gas stove without damaging it?

#2 - I'ver read that some people use the D.O. lid upside down as a griddle. I like the idea of one D.O. serving so many needs, but I'm struggling to picture how to do that. It seems that it would tip easily. Maybe I need to create a little tripod with rocks or small cans (tuna can size)?? Is this done over charcoal briquettes or would it be done over a gas stove - pending the answer to #1?

Thanks for any advice.

My rule has always been, when in an official BSA uniform (shirt at a minimum - many Cubs choose NOT to wear neckerchiefs - mostly because the darn slides keep coming off), you salute. When not in uniform - even if a pack/troop standard t-shirt - you place hand over heart. Both are appropriate signs of respect for the flag.

Ken

My point exactly.

Assuming the patrol box includes:

>>a fixed-blade kitchen knife and a can opener, AND

>>a scout's latrine kit includes a fingernail clipper (great for cutting fishing line too)...

... a Scout really doesn't need anything but a simple moderate-sized folding knife - though I can appreciate the benefit of a locking-blade knife.

S.E.,

That was my point. After writting my post, I checked scoutstuff.org and found the rollup "Chef's Tool Kit" that indeed includes two fixed blade knives. The "slicing knife" looks to have about a 7 or 8 inch blade.

I think the key point here is that the Scouts are not carrying that large fixed blade knife around on their person, but it is available in the cook kit when needed.

That meets Scoutings recommendation for boys not to carry large and/or fixed blade knives, but also makes a large knife, often completely appropriate for food preparation, available in the correct setting (food prep).

In my experience, for most non-kitchen related activities in Scouting, a locking-blade folding knife will do just fine, EXCEPT in food preparation.

Maybe we are going about this discussion backwards. Maybe what we should do is list the tasks for which a Scout needs a knife, and then for each one identify the types of knives best suited to those tasks.

Tasks:

>>Whittling-like tasks (carving, sharpening sticks to create stakes, making fur-sticks, marshmallow sticks, etc...)

>>Cutting roap

>>Slicing vegitables

>>Opening canned food

>>Tightening screws

>>Opening paint cans

>>Trimming fingernails

>>Cleaning fingernails

>>Removing bark from sticks

>>Removing small limbs from sticks

>>Opening taped boxes

>>Opening envelopes

>>Opening popcans w/ defective tab rivets

>>???

This morning I talked with one of the leaders of the troop that my Webelos are most likely to join (based upon history), and indeed that troop does not allow Scouts to carry matches or lighters. He said they were strick about it. He specifically mentioned the boys' potential discovery that fire and aerosol insect repellents do wild things together.

He said that they do provide the long-type of lighter for lighting stoves/fires, but those are in the patrol gear.

From my searches on the internet, I think forbidding matches/lighters is more common out there than the replies on this forum suggest.

Question: do patrol cook kits tend to include kitchen-like fixed blade knives? When I was a Scout, we used a roll-up kitchen utensil kit that include, in addition to a spoon, fork, spatula, and peeler, a large wood handled kitchen (chef) knife and a smaller paring knife. Is that still the case?

If yes, I'd be happy to say that "the proper tool for the job" is still alive & well in Scouting; If no, why not??

Ken

Understand that it has been a long time since I was in Boy Scouts (20+ years), but while surfing for on-line camp packing lists from the many fine troops that are out there, I kind of surprized to find that matches and lighters were one of the items that was forbidden - like firearms and sheath knives - and that matches/lighters will only be provided by adults as needed.

I found a lot of troops referring to the ten essentials, but then they must assume a few of those are left home.

My how times have changed. While I understand and have experienced myself the mischief that Scouts can get into with matches and lighters, it seemed odd to me. When I was a Scout we were taught to ALWAYS carry three items: a knife, a compass, and dry matches.

Are there any troops out there that still have their Scouts carry matches or the modern equivalents (lighters)???

I have a Webelos den that will very soon start to have some overnight campouts. They all have their own tents, and between us parents we have most all of the equipment needed.

I want to bring some kind of dining shelter. I have an inexpensive screen tent, but I don't think it will survive several weekends with nine boys. I'm thinking of getting some kind of dining fly, so I've been researching them.

I'm willing to spend some of my money on it, since I can use it for my own family's camping too.

In a related thread earlier this year, EagleInKY mentioned that patrols were moving toward an "enclosed canopy" instead of a more classic dining fly.

Did that refer to a screen tent? Is that in order to provide shelter against mosquitos as well as rain?

Can anyone point to web sites that provide dining fly descriptions? It sounds like most troops use homemade pole setups. Is that right?

Do you prefer plastic, nylon/polyester, or canvas tarps?

Sorry for the shift in this thread, but I just purchased a DO (Lodge - $35 from Amazon.com) and I've got to ask this:

Do you tend to cook directly in the seasoned "pot"? or do you tend to insert a raised round cake pan and then cook inside that cake pan??

I've heard discussions at my roundtable that people would have to be nuts to cook directly on the cast iron. That it make for a tough cleanup. But it sounds like many (most?) others cook directly on the seasoned cast iron.

Also, do many of you use cast iron fry pans (obviously only when car camping)? It seems a big cast iron fry pan would be a nice addition to the cook gear.

This thread got me thinking about a particular knife I once saw, but I can't recall who made it. I think it was called a "camp knife". It was a longer blade fixed knife, but it had a rounded tip, much like that of a bread knife. I'm pretty sure the tip wasn't sharp. The idea was that as a general purpose food preparation knife, it would do better scooping out and spreading stuff such as peanut butter, mayonaise, butter, etc...

Does anyone remember that knife or know if it, or similar, is still around?

My council leaders have made it very clear that fixed blade knives are to welcome at Scouting activiites and anyone who uses them are, well, misguided.

For hiking and general outdoor use, a folding knife does just fine, and is easier to carry than a fixed blade knife.

BUT when it comes to food preparation, I still much prefer a medium sized fixed blade knife with a clip point blade (rather than a spear point) and a non-porous handle. I hate trying to clean meat juices, peanut butter, or even veggie guts from the knooks and crannies of my folding knife!!

The blade must be just long enough to reach to the bottom of my peanut butter jar.

I recently purchased a Buck Alpha Hunter - a rather largish folding knife for most scout uses. The thing I really liked about it, amoung others, is that it has an open blade chamber, which makes it much easier to clean that most other folding knives.

I do wish Scouting (my council) was more open to use of the proper knife for the situation.

I'm certainly not trolling for hard-edged complaints about Boy Scout policy here, but a lot of people I talk to are obviously confused about the Boy Scouts of America's position on religion/faith/reverence.

Can anyone point me to a web site that describes that postion in some detail?

During training from my council, it was specified that BSA is not limited to Christians or those who beleive in God. They said that the desire is to have Scouts have faith in some higher being or power.

I just want to have the story straight when discussing it with people.

Thanks!

I e-mailed Mr. Bradle in Iraq and asked if there was anything my Pack could do to help Iraq Scouting - such as raising money or sending gear. He replied very quickly saying that they are working to raise some $4 million for rebuilding a 15 acre camp/scout HQ along the Tigris River.

Of course, I'll contact my council to get the OK before raising any money, but what a great cause this would be.

In Mr. Bradle's case - and lots of other fine men and women in Iraq and other areas - they are truely living up to the Scout Law. Helpful, Brave ...

I purchased mine from http://www.omahas.com . It was my first purchase from them and I wouldn't hestitate to do it again.

Since I actually bought three spools of different colors (red, black, and olive drab), I might try to color-code the lengths: 100', 50', and 25'.

I originally bought the red thinking it might work well for tent cording - less likely to trip over red cord??

Thanks for all your inputs,

Ken

Pad - watch campmor.com for some great deals on Therm-a-Rest pads with slight imperfections. I might also recommend you purchase a matching stuff bag and repair kit.

If you want an small LED handheld light, campmor currently has a great deal on the tiny Princton Tec single LED lights for 1/4 of the regular cost.

I've got to ask, is your rain suit Gortex or just coated nylon?

The plan is to bring along several lengths for miscellanious uses - clothes lines, storm lines on tents, tie downs in canoes/boats, lashings for pioneering type stuff, etc...

I don't have any real specific use in mind. Just figuring having some lengths of rope in the camping gear would prove helpful. Just being prepared.

I just bought a 300' role of parachute cord and I'm trying to figure out what lengths are most useful/practical for miscellanious uses. I remember we had lengths of it back when I was a kid, but just can't recall how long they were.

I've read some troop sites mention 50' lengths, but I fear that length would get tangled easily. I'm thinking maybe 25' or 30' lengths??

As a suspender wearer AND a Cub Scout leader, I wanted to point out that I wear BLUE suspenders that match the blue ribbons on the epilets (sp?).

When (if?) I move on to Boy Scouts with my son, then my plan is to switch to the RED suspenders, again, to match the epliets, though I have wondered if wearing DARK GREEN suspenders would be less distracting from the uniform. The problem there is I have yet to find green suspenders. Blue, tan, maroon, black, and red seem to be the most commonly available colors.

I did hear my council's training coordinator complain about the number of scout leaders the are overweight and the bad message it sends to our boys about maintaning their health. I myself was offended by that comment since I have struggled with my weight since early childhood, having tried every diet under the sun and experienced the yo-yo diet issues. I was a fat Cub Scout, a fat Boy Scout, and now a fat Scout leader.

Is Scout leadership only for the lean? I hope not, since I feel I have a lot to offer ... so long as my pants stay up.

Back to the suspenders ... there is nothing worse than watching a man with a big belly constantly pulling up it pants. THAT is why I wear suspenders.

Last night, at our New Cub Rally, our coucil exec told us that starting in the fall Tiger Cubs will be wearing blue uniforms rather than the orange t-shirts.

Has anyone else heard that? Are there any descriptions on-line? Is there a new Tiger Cub Handbook?

Is there anything else new for for Cub Scouts next year?