kenk

Or . . .

I suppose the two boys in my den that did not receive the Tiger Cub badge could opt to get the diamond-shaped Webelos badge and go with the older style 4-badge configuration, and the four boys that did get the Tiger Cub badge could opt to wear the oval-shaped badge by itself.

Seems like too many options to me.

I'm a Webelos 1 den leader and my boys are about to receive their Webelos badge and am trying to understand whether they should receive the diamond-shaped badge or the oval-shaped badge.

My theory is that the diamond-shaped badge is an older-style intended to be used by boys who did NOT receive the diamond-shaped Tiger Cub badge. The diamond-shaped Webelos badge would "finish off" the four-badge rank diamond (Bobcat+Wolf+Bear+Webelos).

My boys were one of the first dens to receive the diamond-shaped Tiger Cub badge. Most of the boys are currently wearing the "new" four-badge rank diamond (Tiger Cub+Bobcat+Wolf+Bear).

So, continuing with my theory, my boys should be receiving the oval-shaped Webelos badge, which should replace the four-badge rank diamond, and be worn alone on the shirt pocket. My understanding is the oval shape was to more closely match the badges of rank used in Boy Scouts.

I've never read any official word from BSA. I still need to check with the insignia guide, but as I recall it doesn't give much guidance on this matter.

Do some Packs place the diamond-shaped Webelos badge alone on the pocket?

If it matters our Webelos wear the tan uniform shirt.

Your thoughts???

What is the brand name if the sleeping bag?

The combination you list - Qualofill, mummy shape, rated for 0 degrees F - all indicate that the bag should meet the needs for winter camping, BUT the quality of the bag's construction is a big factor. The better bags are sewn such that there aren't cold spots where there are seams.

Also, a bag rated for 0 degrees F, though absolutely necessary for winter camping, may be too hot to be comfortable for a cold summer night of camping. I myself purchased two bags for myself and my son - a winter bag (very warm 0F mummy) and a summer bag (lighter insulation 40F square).

Regardless, talk with your troop leaders - they'll know what works best for their boys.

I have both NG Topo! and Delorme's topographic software. While the Delorme software is nice - I use their street atlas all the time, it is not nearly as good as the Topo! product.

I think the Topo! maps are actual scanned USGS maps, while the Delorme maps are built up with data.

I would stick to the NG Topo! software.

While I certainly agree that some parents are clearly too involved in the building of the cars, I do think parents need to be very involved, especially for a Tiger Cub, and the involvement should wain as the boys age.

When my son was a Tiger Cub, we built the car together with him doing as much as he could possibly do. He did the design on paper, with some slight suggestions from me (usually when just too complicated for him to do).

When it came to tranferring the design to the wood block, I held the paper on the block and instructed him to trace the design.

When it came to cutting, that too was a joint project. He did most of the cutting, but I helped guide the saw and made sure his hands were clear. Yeah, it came out a bit crooked, but not bad.

My son did most of the sanding, though I did sand some of the end-grain areas that he ignored.

When it came time to painting, well, I'll admit, I did most of that. He picked out the colors and told me where they should go, but since it is well below zero here in January, we needed to paint inside the house. I just can't risk damage to carpeting and furniture, so I did the actual spraying inside a box.

We did some filing/sanding of the axles. Since this involves use of a power tool (Dremel), I didn't want my son holding and controlling the tool itself. I did the filing. He was there holding the sandpaper strips.

Finally came the wheel assembly. I was told we could just push the nails into the block with our fingers. My son tried but couldn't do it. I tried too, and managed to get them pushed in. The first year I superglued them. The second year I let him superglue them - he got glue on the wheels. What a mess. This meant getting another nail & wheel from the derby chair and lots of work disassembling and repairing. Since then, I applied superglue to the nails to secure them. This year I used the gel-type of glue. That worked well.

My point is that it was a joint project between us with both of us learning how to do it. My son has Aspergers Syndrome, which requires me to guide and help more than most boys his age, but as he's gotten older, the designs have changed each year, and he's done more each year, but even though he was a Webelos 1 this year, he still needed my help and I still did the spray painting.

Another thing. In his Tiger Cub year he was in tears when he didn't win (much due to Aspergers). Now I REALLY try to emphasize good sportsmanship and de-emphasize the issue of winning. I told my son that if he was a good loser AND a good winner, that I'd take him out for pizza. I'm happy to say that worked very well. The second year he was actually kind of worried when his car won ("Can I still have pizza?"). We explained that it was even more important to be a good winner. Four years later, he actually roots for his den-mates much more than himself. He is quite a kid.

Its not the car. Its not the winning. Its the learning and the fun.

By the way, our Pack does have a "no rules" race that parents and siblings can participate in. No awards are given for that race. Each car is run on each of four lanes and we use the average time to score. We've also created enough goofy design-based awards that we make sure every Scout goes home with at least a medal of some kind. Again - its the fun.

I've seen several versions of the 3-bucket method of washing cooking/eating ware. Most seem to flip-flop the 2nd and 3rd stage.

I'm not sure what BSA's official method is, but...

From what I can gather searching the web, and also based on my own common sense about the killing power of chlorine and the possibility of re-contaminating sanitized utensils, here is what I think is the proper methodology:

1. Scrape dishes into waste container so they "look" clean

Wash cleanest to dirtiest

2. Wash in warm soapy water

3. Rinse in hot water (>=110F, hot to the hand, not scalding)

4. Soak in cool (75F) bleach/water solution for 2 minutes

1 tbs bleach per gallon water

3 tbs bleach for porous surfaces like wood

Too cold, chlorine won't sanitize

Too hot, chlorine converts to gasious state & leaves bucket

5. Air dry (in nylon mesh bag) - do not use dishtowel - or place on sanitized (wiped with sanitizing solution left on for 2 minutes) plastic surface.

6. Clean tubs backwards. Rinse soapy water tub with rinse water. Swirl each tub with chlorine solution and let air dry.

7. If no specific graywater dump facility, spread dishwater at least 75 steps from camp, lake, or stream, screening for solids.

The most likely breakdowns are (1) inadequate sanitation soak time, and (2) recontamination of utensils during drying/handling/packing.

It is critical that the utensils soak for the 2 minutes since even chlorine takes time to disinfect. I've read recommendations from 45 seconds to 3 minutes. Two minutes seems most common though.

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will ...

A Tiger Cub den of 11 boys is simply too big. It might help if you break the den up onto two dens - one with 5 boys and another with 6. A den with 11 boys of that age has got to be pure chaos.

My Webelos 1 den has dropped from 8 to 6 boys over the years (with a few added and others leaving) and I find that smaller size so wonderful to deal with.

If the counts of each drop later, they two can always be recombined as needed.

We recently started using ScoutTrack.com's online tracking tool. It allows den leaders to track requirements completed at meetings/activities and parents to track requirements completed at home. Den leaders can also enter requirements completed outside the den meetings. Den leaders can run reports to see a summarized status for advancement and/or the sports & academics program.

A week or so before each pack meeiting, our advacement coordinator simply runs and prints a report that lists out the number of each award earned since the last pack meeting (basically a shopping list) and then purchases them at the council scout store. He can go on-line to check off awards that have indeed been purchased.

He then runs and prints another report that lists exactly who earned which award, for distribution at the meeting.

After the meeting he uses the same report to electronically check off the boys who actually received their awards - as opposed to those who weren't at the meeting. Those that didn't get their award will come up on the distribution report for next month's pack meeting - so we don't forget them.

It works well and splits responsibility between den leaders, parents, and the advancement coordinator.

ScoutTrack also provides for an on-line pack directory, (parents can maintain their own information) and an on-line calendar that provides den-specific views (parents only see pack events and their den's events) that is maintained by pack leaders (pack level) and den leaders (den level).

I'm not at all connected with the makers of ScoutTrack - just a user. Our pack was struggling with maintaining records on a single database system managed by several different people on different PCs - they were simply never up to date and couldn't be merged, nor were they EVER backed up.

Ken

My point, and its been talked to death in this forum, is that a fixed blade knife is no more dangerous than a folding knife, an axe, a hatchet, or a saw. The danger is in the actions of the holder. A sharp folding knife is just as dangerous if mishandled as a fixed blade knife - maybe more so due to the risk folding accidents. Misuse of axes, hatchets, and wood saws will result in MUCH more serious injuries (I have the scar to prove it - one slip of a bow saw on the pointing finger of my left hand). Unfortunately, fixed blade sheath knives are the "assault rifles" of the knife world - the public perceives a greater danger, whether justified or not. Carry a big (5") fixed blade sheathed knife in public and you're likely freak out people, or worse, get stopped by the police, even though it is entirely legal in my state.

My council has banned fixed blade sheath knives at Scout activities (excluding fixed blade kitchen knives apparently), and I abide by those rules and uphold them, but that doesn't mean that I agree with them.

I agree with the comment that Cub Scouts do not need knives. I am now in the middle of my boys' Webelos 1 year and I have yet to see a time when they need to have knives in their posession other than specifically for knive safety training. On the other hand, given the amount of outdoor activities for Boy Scouts and possibly Webelos 2, I can see where those boys WOULD need to carry a knife with them.

I agree wholeheartedly about the split. It won't be popular, but it is for the best. My Webelos 1 den has six boys right now and it is soooo much easier than it was even with eight boys. If the dens' sizes dwindle later, the two can always rejoin together.

Also, I borrowed an idea we used when I was a boy in Indian Guides. They had a "talking stick" and, during discussion times, the rule was you couldn't talk unless you had the talking stick. Now, with young boys I don't recommend they hold a large stick. When my boys were Tiger Cubs I got a small tiger beany baby type stuffed animal and told them they couldn't talk unless they had the "Talking Tiger". They enjoyed tossing it from boy to boy as each participated. You could do the same thing with your den too.

To clafify, this was only during sit-down-type discussion/presentation times. When they were working on projects or other activities, they were simply encouraged not to scream and run around too much. I found a buzy boy tends to be a quieter boy.

Has anyone on this forum REALLY ever witnessed first-hand someone hurting themselves with a fixed blade knife while it is in its sheath?

If so, please share with us what happened!

To LauraMO: Creating a requirement that a boy earn his Bear rank BEFORE he is allowed to earn his Whittlin' Chip Card means he cannot choose to do the Shavings and Chips Achievement. Is it appropriate for a Pack/District/Council to tell a Scout that he cannot do a particular Achievement listed in the respective handbook? I don't think so. I DO think a parent has that authority though.

I'm a big big fan of Eureka tents.

For most camping I tent toward the 4 person tents rather than the 2 person tents. A 2 person tent just doesn't have much room for gear. I'd probably put 2-3 boys in a 4 person tent.

I had a hybrid version of the 4-person Timberline (it was called an Aurora and had fiberglass poles that pushed the sides out for more room) for the last 15+ years and loved it. These days the fly's coating is starting to age and has gotten sticky.

I recently purchased a 4-person Eureka Assault Outfitter, which is relatively new. It is a commericalized version of the tent that Eureka makes for the U.S. Marine Corps. You can read about it at http://www.eurekacamping.com/assaout.asp

I really like the tent. It is ROCK SOLID and very weatherproof. At $250 it is a fantastic value for a sturdy four season dome tent. It is about the same price, height, floor area, and weight as the Timberline Outfitter.

For Scouts it has a few issues:

1. The aluminum poles are very long and therefore it seems more prone to damage than the Timberline.

2. It is somewhat more complicated to setup than a Timberline, since you have to insert three poles and "lift" to the dome shape. It would be the same with any dome tent.

3. There is no "fly" covering the doorway, so when entering tent in rain, some will get into tent. I wish they'd made the front door lift up to create a sort of fly effect. Most dome tents will have this same issue. The vertical nature of the Timberline helps prevent rain from entering the door.

I find I keep coming back to the Eureka Timberline Outfitter for Scouts. It is easy to setup, tough as nails, and will stay very dry in the rain.

Another very high potential that I think is relatively new is the Eureka Backcountry Outfitter, which is similar in size, an external framed (clips to external frame) 2-aluminum pole dome tent that runs for about $200. It seems the EXO clips would overcome the setup complexity of the dome tents. It also allows the tent and fly to be clipped at the same time, making setup very fast. It has a small fly over the opening that should help keep rain out of the door when entering.

All of this is for car/trailer camping. Backpacking is a whole 'nother issue.

... and if they can't follow the rules, extinguish the fire. Better safe than sorry, and besides, it pollutes the air.

Many campers who care about the environment are moving toward no-fire camping. They uses clean-burning gas stoves for cooking, and spend the day enjoying the out-of-doors rather than sitting around a smoking stinky firepit.

This is certainly not the case in family campgrounds though (non-Scout related). There you'll find campfires smoldering away nearly 24 hours a day, usually unattended. I find the air quality around most public campgrounds to be equivalent to the worst polluted cities that I've had the misfortune of visiting in China (required by my job).

When my pack goes camping, my den only builds a fire just before dark, maintains it, and then puts it out cold before retiring for the night.

Most of the other dens light a fire by 7am, leave it smoldering unattended during the day's events, and then get it going strong again in the evening. I don't know if they extinguish it at night or not. I've presented my thoughts on this to the den leaders, but nothing has changed.

Its not that I don't like campfires. A well maintained campfire accompanied by great stories and discussion can be a real delight, but they aren't absoutely necessary for a fun campout, plus a smoldering campfire is nasty air pollution!

My wife & I will vote after picking up our 8 & 9 year old kids from after-school Taekwondo. They are almost as excited to see us vote as we are to cast our votes.

My wife and I try to do our homework on local elections that most local people know little, if nothing, about. We've had lots of discussions at home, including the kids, about the candidates, what they represent, and why we're voting for each one.

Ignoring specifics about candidates and national issues, our biggest local concerns are:

ROADS (very nasty traffic congestion seemingly ignored by those who can improve it),

EDUCATION (schools saying they don't have enough money, and clearly try to make parents feel their pain), and

TAXES(they keep going up and up and up).

ozemu,

He sees your wife and kids just fine ... and he can hear you. Don't stop talking to your Dad just because you can't see him.

Eamonn,

I don't have much more advice than already given. OJ will have to make his decision - with your guidance. Unfortunately, rebels are attractive to a 17 year old. Make sure he knows what the right thing to do is.

I can picture sporting events where beer might be served to the public in the presence of scouts, BUT I think I would ask the scouts' parents to refrain from drinking these beverages in front of the boys.

A few weeks ago someone has suggested that leaders (and interested parents) have the Guide to Safe Scouting (GTSS) with them at all events, if nothing else just to be able to point to the rules. That was excellent advice.

The GTSS can be purchased at scout stores and on-line at http://www.scoutstuff.org . Of course, it is also available on-line at http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/index.html .

mn_scout,

I like your list a lot! Now that my boys are in Webelos I, I've tried to increase the amount of leadership they are asked to show.

While the parents are still very much involved and hands-on, the boys are leading small sections of meetings and, as a group, becoming very involved in making decisions for field trips/activities. They thrive on it.

You can also focus on age-appropriate precursors to common Boy Scout skills, such as compass use, first aid, and camp cooking. We've been doing that in our den since Tiger Cubs - increasing complexities as the boys aged/matured.

For compass, we play a pin the tail on the donkey game where we first teach them how to point the compass at the donkey and "box" the needle. Then we put a sheet over them, gently spin them, and help them learn to "rebox" the needle and then follow the compass to the donkey. By their Bear year (last year) I had them following a simple triangle course where I gave them three bearings (with parental help) and we marked where they ended up. When all were done, we told them where they were supposed to have ended up. They had a blast with that.

We've also slowly built a firt aid kit up over the years. We started with soap and bandaids, then added tape, larger bandages, and tweezers. Each year adding complexity and focusing on "self-help" AND informing adults of the injury. Pre-Webelos may be too early to focus on applying first aid to others.

As I've mentioned in previous posts. Last year we created a "survival kit" using a cheap fanny pack, an orange plastic bag (purchased on the web), a whistle on a wrist lanyard, and a cheap LED light that fastens on the wrist lanyard. This year (Webelos I) I might try to show them how signal mirrors work using a blank CD, talk about fire-starting (with LOTS of parental involvement - most of our boys don't even know how to light a match), and talk about the "order of importance" from a survival perspective (Medical care, Shelter, Signal, Fire, Water, Food). Next year we start hunting? (No!!, just kidding).

During our Pack Overnight and at daytime picnic/hiking activities, we've tried to allow the boys to be very involved in meal planning, cooking, AND CLEANUP. Again, we've gotten more complicated as the years went on.

The boys are asked to carry their survival kit (fanny pack) and small first aid kit with them whenever we are on an activity outdoors. Starting the habit early.

The goal is to encourage early learning and skill development while still leaving something to be learned in Boy Scouts.

I am no expert in backpacking at Philmont. The only time I was there was as a young Scout - too young to go backpacking - more of a summer camp-like experience.

Here is a link to many Philmont related recommendations (backpack section is about 1/3 of the way down):

http://www.troop1188.com/docs/Philmont%20Advisors%20Guide%201999.doc

Want maps, then your choices are the Legend or the Vista. If you want to stuff lots of maps on at one time, then the Vista has LOTS more memory (24MB vs 1MB). One MB of memory isn't much.

Is it even possible to get two or more badges of rank per scout?

My advancement coordinator tells me that he has to fill out paperwork for each badge of rank purchased. Does he just tell the council that the boy is getting two - one for each uniform?

Plus, per the GTSS, since you are not his parent nor his legal guardian, you cannot sleep in the same tent as your nephew.

I feel sorry for your nephew. I feel sorry for any boy whose parents cannot "find the time" for such an important thing to a young Cub Scout as a scout campout. It is very very sad.

I had a boy in my den whose parents were almost always too busy to attend den meetings or other den activities. Most of the time it was because they had to attend their daughter's dance activities. This fall they dropped him from Cub Scouts altogether. I wonder if he will ever tell his parents how it feels to live in his sister's shadow.

With regard to the crying fits, have his parents ever "found the time" to discuss this with a professional, such as a psychologist? He may have a yet undiagnosed issue that could be addressed if only it was diagnosed. My son has Asperger's Syndrome. He also had "meltdowns", though they are lessening as he ages and as we work with him. Once we knew why, we could address them.

Of course, he could just be screaming for love and attention from his parents.

A wealth of info is available at http://gpsinformation.net/

What specifically are you looking to do with the GPS?

Do you need to have maps on your GPS? How important is this feature to you?

Do you want to have an electronic compass on your GPS?

Are you planning to carry the GPS hiking? On a vehicle dashboard?

Would you want (need) to attach an external antenna? (required if located away from vehicle windows)

How important is size and weight to you?

Is a color display a feature you are willing to pay for (+$200 or so)?

Any simple, inexpensive GPS can provide UTM coordinates and store waypoints. These are the tasks most commonly used in the field.

If you want to have maps and follow your routes in a vehicle, then you'll need a more advanced GPS w/ memory. May need a larger screen, depending on your eyesight.

Also consider the battery life.

I myself tend to prefer Garmin. I'm torn between the Etrex line and the Gecko line. Etrex is well proven and easy to use. Gecko is much smaller and lighter. If you need mapping capabilities, I would go with the Etrex Legend. If you don't, I'd go with the Gecko 201 (electronic compass sucks power and not really needed - bring a magnetic compass instead).

If using it in a car/truck, get a RAM suction cup mount - fantastic mounting system.

I asked at last night's district roundtable meeting. They were quick and clear to specify "Legal" guardian. They said notes from parents were not acceptable with regard to an adult sleeping in the same tent as youth.

After that I noticed that regarding Webelos adult supervision, the GTSS refers to "parent approved adult". It seems to me they are being careful to distinguish between a guarian (legal guardian) and a parent approved adult.

I asked about the situation when you have a very large tent (teepee) and have several unrelated adult leaders and youth sleeping in the same large tent. He said to follow the rules for cabin accomidations. I can't find anything like that in the GTSS though.