Joni4TA

Actually I think it's pretty cool when a Dist. person comes to our events or meetings. It's rare I realize this, but sometimes it's a first come, first serve basis. If I invite the DE to something, and his schedule permits, he'll usually come. Most of the time he seems like he is so swamped with stuff that he never gets to leave his office!

Months, even sometimes years go by... Adult Leaders, Committee Members and parents of Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts have had no training. They want to provide input and instruction to Packs and Troops but just don't get what's going on or how the Programs work. What to do? You can only suggest training and give them the details when District is giving the training so many times. Basically, our District does training almost every month with the exception of a couple. People have signed up, then backed out. There is nothing that makes BSA Training mandatory, I know this. But gosh.. you'd think they'd WANT to be "in the know."

Anyone else experience these kinds of issues in your units?

Any success stories?

I couldn't have been more thrilled to see this topic in these forums today!

Our Troop is struggling on all ends with this dilemna now. Basically, the former SM (now an ASM) lead the Troop for several years. The man is a genius at many things. He is well organized, extremely intelligent and very giving of his time to Scouts. he is friendly, and kind, and all that good stuff. He is well trained, has Wood Badge, taken many Leadership courses, been in Scouting many years, etc.

However (yes there is always a "but"), within the confines of his great talents, he has produced a SM-run Troop rather than a Boy-Run Troop. At PLCs, SPLs and PLs were handed an intriquite itinerary, along with a calendar of annual events, well-planned by the SM with dotted i's and crossed t's. The guy was efficient, had all the campouts planned, where, how, why, and when... would produce packing lists for all the boys "so they wouldn't forget anything," the whole nine yards!

The SM also allowed, advocated and taught Merit Badge instruction (both Eagle required and non-Eagle) during almost every weekly Troop meeting. In fact, the Troop Meetings were designed specifically to promote the teaching of MBs. In addition, the SM was such a great organizer, he could easily handle the task of handling Troop instruction in the Troop's entirity, so 30-50 boys learning the same MB, at the same time, in the same meeting, every week. As a result of the Troop functioning in "totality" instead of Patrols, none of these boys know what a Patrol Method is either.

The "Mommies" would plan things for the boys, the SM would plan things for the boys, everyone was planning things for these boys except THE BOYS! The former SM would constantly send emails as to what the Troop was doing, far in advance. It was a "well-run", and "flawless" Troop, from an untrained, parental eye. You heard from the SM and Committee frequently... and things did go smoothly.

ENTER A NEW SM...........

The "NEW" SM is a 16-yr Veteran to Scouting Leadership, has likewise been well-trained, earned Wood Badge beads, etc., etc.

First thing the "New" SM does is put a STOP to the "Merit Badge Mill" that the Weekly Troop meetings had become. He says there will be NO MBs taught in the weekly meetings, as long as he is the SM. After much grumbling and dissatisfaction, it is suggested and put into effect that MBs can be taught an hour before the weekly meeting or on another day, and only one MB per month.

Next, the "New" SM declines to use the former SM and Committee's "pre-planned annual plan." And, he ("New" SM) insisted that the PLC was going to make the decisions!! Well needless to say, this has been wreaking havoc in the Troop. New SM's also insisted on the Patrol Method being utilized, has assigned ASMs each to be Patrol Advisors to assist in the conversion from a PL doing absolutely nothing in the Troop to actually performing his job functions.

Though the SPL was not being challenged prior to the change of SM command, he is now showing signs of great growth. He's finally getting to use the skills he's learned in Leadership!! He's walking, not running.. but he's getting there, and new SM is so proud.

Of course the "New" SM is not perfect. None of us are. He makes mistakes, he has his weaknesses, and we should expect that from him. But he is abiding by the policies of the BSA and should be both respected and commended for his efforts in trying to turn this Troop around.

On to the parents, Committee, Former SM -

They have tried (unsuccessfully) to stage a coup to get the new SM to step down. Parents are furious that all these changes are taking place and they feel the Troop is "disorganized" and no longer functioning "as it should be." (Rather, as it was) I am on the Committee and I agree with the changes the SM is trying to implement, because it's clear what the Troop was before - was NOT a Boy Scout Troop, but an extension of the Cub Scout Den Program!

Parents and Committee Members are blasting the SM behind his back, encouraging "mutiny" for a lack of better characterization. What's upsetting is very few of these folks who are so irate about how the SM is trying to implement the Methods Of Scouting, are even BSA Trained. Nor have they taken the time to look into the fundamentals of Scouting. They just got so used to something for so long that "looked good" (like a wolf in Sheep's clothing) and ran well. Now they are being force fed the harsh reality that their Boys have not been participating in a Boy Scout Program all this time, but instead have been herded like cattle in a mindless 3rd Year Webelos Program!

I believe in encouraging TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING! The SM is going to do a "Mini" JLT for the current PLC members. I can only lead the rest of the horses (Committee Members and Parents) to the "Training trough", but I can't make them drink! I send out emails, provide them with links to check out on the internet with great information on the Ideals of Scouting, Merit Badge processes, encourage them to read their son's BS Handbooks, you name it. It is working? I don't know.

Can you guys help out a little? Is there anything you could think of that would be helpful? I don't want the parents to hate the SM, and I've tried internally forgiving them of their ignorances of the BSA Program. The SM has suggested to the Committee Chair that he designate a Committee Meeting and I can help plan for the District Training Team to come in and get these folks trained. (I am on the District Committee as well, along with the new SM). Haven't heard back from that yet.

Opinions? Anyone? Suggestions?

Thank you, this link is really cool. I had no idea. At first I was eye-brow up thinking, "How in the heck can you get THAT training online!?!?!" But it wasn't the "Aquatics" I was thinking of. Safe Swim and Safety Afloat is a doable online training!

Thanks again!

I would have the boys in the Webelos Den/Patrol think about what they like to eat when they're out camping (I am assuming they've done some camping by now either Family Camping or as a Pack). I don't know if you have more than one Patrol or not but begin having the boys plan the menus. Put on a big board, the three meals per day. Let them agree or disagree on what they want to eat. Ask them questions, lead them into making the proper decisions about food choices; i.e., "What's really needed to make omelettes, boys?" "What else?"

Let them decide (within a timely manner and plenty of Adult Leader help) which 2 boys will assist an adult in cooking or cook alone, each meal or meals for the day. Let them pick a couple boys for cleaning up after meals, and another 2 boys for washing dishes. Let them pick a "grubmaster" for the campout. Perhaps they can guesstimate how much each person should contribute to the food shopper for meals.

Bottom line, let the boys have as much input as you can, but ensure there is plenty of adult backing both in the decision process and in the campout. Let them "forget" a thing or two... make a mental note in your head, and ask them later if they forgot anything? Boys will learn from their mistakes.

Good luck!

The most important thing I have learned is that we are all volunteers in Scouting, and because of that, we all do what we can, not necessarily everything others want us to.

DeMann -

I wonder the same thing... which is why I can sometimes catch my SDE buried under mountains of paperwork in his office. I am thinking of getting a bullhorn so I can talk to him behind the paper-stacks! lol

You guys crack me up! (With the SWEET TEA thing)

Here, I have only heard of banning gameboys and walkmans or at least confining them to one's tent, and like some others have said - only on an as needed basis.

Candid-

Welcome to Scouter.com!

I grew up in your neck of the woods, even went to college at Pierce. Anyhow, I have found this site and these boards a wonderful resource to enhance my volunteer service. I am sure you will too.

I started collecting links for an upcoming roundtable and thought I would share them here.

MERIT BADGES

http://www.meritbadge.com

MeritBadge.com! This site is devoted to Scouting advancement. You'll find lots of information and resource links to help Scouts work on their advancement requirements ... OVER 500 PAGES. Includes all Merit Badge Requirements and printable worksheets for completing Merit Badges in both Adobe (.pdf) and Word (.doc) formats

http://www.usscouts.org/boyscouts/MBC_Training.html

Merit Badge Counselor Orientation Supplemental Adult Leader Training; Provides merit badge counselors with understanding of the methods of counseling and their role in the advancement program of Boy Scouts of America. Explains the procedure for a Scout to earn a Merit Badge from beginning to end

SCOUTMASTER/ TROOP COMMITTEE

http://usscouts.org/scoutmaster/index.asp

RESOURCES FOR SCOUTMASTERS AND SCOUT LEADERS

http://www.scouter.com/compass/Medical_Issues_Library

Working with Scouts With Disabilities - links here, to information available on the Net that may help you better understand that Scout who so desperately needs your understanding

http://hometown.aol.com/baldibear/

Resources for Disabilities Awareness in Scouting

http://usscouts.org/boyscouts/bstroop.html

Troop Organization - Let's take a look at how a troop functions. In order to support the troop's operation, you will need to know its structure

http://www.greenbar.ws/4adults/index.cfm

This Web Site is designed to get adults involved in Scouting to think about what Scouting is, and concentrate their efforts on doing real Scouting instead of getting caught up in politics, social theory, or other distractions.

http://www.macscouter.com/Scoutmaster

This is the starting point for resources to support Scoutmasters and Troop Committee Members. These include the Scoutmasters Minutes and the Guide to Conducting Boards of Review

http://www.scouter.com/forums/default.asp

This is an interactive, private community provided by SCOUTER Network and reserved for Scouting related discussions. Basically a worldwide discussion board where BSA Leaders, Scouts and Parents can interact together, ask questions, relate to others, etc.

http://home.att.net/~chicagobsa/forms.html

A HUGE collection of BSA forms. Most forms on this website are generic forms for any Scouter across the country

http://www.scouting.org/forms

Here is a repository of the latest official versions of popular forms available to download

BOY SCOUTS

http://www.macscouter.com/BoyScouts/BoyScouts.html

BSA Boy Scout resources to support Scoutmasters, Troop Guides, Senior Patrol Leaders, Troop Instructors and Troop Committee Members. You will find lots of resources here to help develop and enhance your program

http://www.greenbar.ws/4scouts/index.cfm

The basic unit of Scouting is the Patrol. Everything you do can and should be done with your Patrol. Real Patrols are quite a bit more than just a group of names on a piece of paper. Discover the full potential of your Patrol and how you can make it the best!

http://www.scouting.org/fun/

An arcade of BSA educational and entertaining games, quizzes, and interactive resources

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p/first_aid.htm

A collection of Scout Troop/Patrol Interactive First Aid Games by Sir Robert Baden-Powell, with links to many other games that boys can participate in to keep their learned skills sharp; Scouting, Stalking, Tracking, Strength, Indoor, Camping and Night games

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/direct/games/index.php/#/idx/cubgames.htm

United Kingdom Scout games, just like the above but from our Brother Scouts in the UK

COOKING - CAMPING

http://papadutch.home.comcast.net/dutch-oven-recipes.htm

This is Byrons collection of favorite Dutch oven recipes, substitution lists, conversion of measurements, etc. Excellent cooking resource for our Dutch Oven Scouts!

http://users.aol.com/lwjones/table.htm

A great set of plans for collapsible Patrol Tables that break down flat, as well as some wood Chuck Box plans. Courtesy of Bob Myers

http://www.netwoods.com/d-cooking.html

Recipes for activities ranging from light-weight backpacking to base and long-term camps

http://www.cadvisor.com/akaluga/campfire.htm

http://www.camppatmos.com/campfire/howtobuildacampfire.html

How to build indoor, artificial and propane campfires.

http://www.pinetreeweb.com/ethics.htm

What is the purpose of a Scout campfire, really?

GRAPHICS AND MISCELLANEOUS

http://www.nwsc.org/graphics/index.shtml

Just some graphics !

http://www.scouter.com/compass/Graphics_and_Clipart/

41 External links and 8 sub-categories of graphics.

http://www.djmorton.demon.co.uk/scouting/campfire.htm

Songs, Skits and Yells!

http://www.scoutxing.com/

Monthly themes, ceremonies, skits, games, songs, stories, quotes, pre-opening activities, jokes, stunts, campfire helps, etc., etc., etc. A wonderful source on anything scouting! MEGA-resources for Leaders, too

I sort of took this whole post as a learning exercise...

My husband is the SM in our son's Troop. I am a Committee Member. We're both active on the District Staff as well.

It's pretty darn difficult at times to remember I am not "MOM" once we throw on our Official Uniforms. It's hard not to give him "the look" (you know the one parental look your folks could give you that meant *You aint gonna live to see tomorrow if ya keep that up*) when he's acting like a donkey.

Sometimes I need to do exactly as was suggested - nudge the PL or SPL to broaden his vision. Usually it works. If not, there is always "THE LOOK" (This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

I sort of took this whole post as a learning exercise...

My husband is the SM in our son's Troop. I am a Committee Member. We're both avtice on the District Staff as well.

It's pretty darn difficult at times to remember I am not "MOM" once we throw on our Official Uniforms. It's hard not to give him "the look" (you know the one parental look your folks could give you that either meant *You aint gonna live to see tomorrow if ya keep that up*) when he's acting l

Volunteer:

Sharing the gift of giving

KS, thanks for the wisdom... you seem to have a good format going there. I appreciate finding the post.

acco -

I appreciate your thoughts but I don't know if we are allowed to disclose a scout's medical and/or behavioral issues to the PLC. I will have to look into that and see if that violates the Privacy Act or whatever. Not sure it would do a whole lot of good either. I mean, kids that find out a weakness of another kid usually will use that against them first, don't you think?

Here in the Marine Corps we have something called the EFMP - Exceptional Family Member Program, for disabled kids. I am thinking of scheduling a speaker to come and talk to the Troop, prior to any formal action. Of course I can't decide this on my own.... it has to be a PLC decision (guided by myself I hope). And it's the committee where I am concerned. Half the committee (and 2 ASMs) are the same parents that have the hard-on for this boy.

But surely they wouldn't want to deny Scouts an opportunity to LEARNnnnnnn () about their peers with disabilites would they? I am trying to be sneaky in my approach. Sometimes if ya teach kids without them knowing they are supposed to be learning, their minds light up in a sunbath of understanding!

acco -

I appreciate your thoughts but I don't know if we are allowed to disclose a scout's medical and/or behavioral issues to the PLC. I will have to look into that and see if that violates the Privacy Act or whatever. Not sure it would do a whole lot of good either. I mean, kids that find out a weakness of another kid usually will use that against them first, don't you think?

Here in the Marine Corps we have something called the EFMP - Exceptional Fam(This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

LMAO BW, I was thinking the same thing

Actually it's weird here, and our SDE does dang near everything haha

In addition to being responsible for Okinawa, he frequently makes trips to Thailand and the Phillipines, but also to the Council on mainland Japan. He runs the District Service Center/Scout Shop - you name it, I am sure he does it or has had to do it.

It's funny... going through this with the BSA and the dreaded uniform issue...

Kids join sports teams of all kinds and are told they WILL wear their uniform to practice or games or they won't get to play - THEY DO wear their uniforms no questions asked.

But the Boy Scouts of America suggest a uniform and everyone is up in arms about it. Make sense of that...

Personally I feel the boys should wear the uniform to every meeting. I think it should stay "by the book" in that manner. Older scouts usually feel the same way if their hearts are really in Scouting and they've grasped the ideals of it. Of course the younger ranks are going to him and haw and prefer a T-shirt. Who wouldn't?

My thing is... if we allow them to him and haw about a uniform for Scouting, we might as well allow them to him and haw about wearing decent clothes to a future job interview while we're at it.

Dan -

I suppose so.

It's just something our District has set up, a MB of the Month program. Based on that, our Troop picked it up as an "in-house" deal and we decided to offer a MB of the Month within the Troop as well.

Sometimes we don't have a MB of the Month in the Troop because parents who are MBCs are too busy or the Troop is too busy but most of the time we do.

Boys are given a list of the MBCs for the District as well and are still entirely free and encouraged to seek out MBs on their own!

Formerly, our Troop did MBs in almost every weekly Troop meeting and every monthly campout. That's what we just put a stop to. It was a serious disservice to the Scouting program.

Hey Dan -

I see what you mean, but I mean the Troop (38 boys at last count) has several active parents and registered leaders who are also Merit Badge Counselors. Any of those MBCs can step up and offer to hold a MB session. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not going to be done in the regular weekly Troop meeting, that's all. So in essence, the entire Troop is offered a Merit Badge of the Month (not an eagle required).

Anyway, in addition, each of the Troops in our District volunteers someone to offer the entire District a Merit Badge of the Month. Each month, a different Troop Leader holds a MB session for the District on one Saturday per month. It's open to the first 16 boys that call up the Scout hut and sign up.

Please understand we are on an island, and separated from our Council Service Center by an ocean and a bunch of miles!

Eamonn -

As always, you have wonderful advice. I thank ya!

The new SM is definitely weaning the boys from the constant "we'll do nothing but MB work during Troop meetings." We have a MB of the Month - it's offered at a different time/day than the weekly Troop meeting. He has worked with the PLC, explaining how they can still do MBs in the Troop meetings, but they must be part of a theme, to include the monthly camping/outing. If there is no correlation with the month's theme, then a MB is just not feasible. In other words, if the month's theme is Camping, we aren't going to do the Dentistry MB in Troop meetings. I think this makes perfect sense!

I think what is upsetting the parents (who are also the committee members) is that they now lack the planning control they had a few weeks ago. The parents and committee was used to dictating the planning for the month, assigning the Troop to do a MB, and providing an instructor or MBC to teach the MB to the boys. The parents and committee chose the MB for the boys based on a Troop advancement report (you know, the big checklist of who has vs. who needs what MB). I always thought this was atrocious! But I was only one committee member and I really didn't want to butt heads about it without the SM and PLC support. We had a very weak "go with the flow" PLC before now, as well. The previous SM was instead saying (in essence), "Hey guys, most of you need ____ MB, so we're going to do that this month, okay." And what boy is going to say no? The intentions have always been great, and geared toward the boys betterment, just not exactly mirroring the methods of Scouting.

I am hoping for a good mesh, a compromise, and the weaning of the MBs as they've known it.

Thanks BW

I will do what I can. After all I am only one person and am only an influence on the boy and the Troop "a couple hours a week"

Sometimes that is enough to make a difference. if anything, my entire family, the SM, myself (Comm. Mbr) and a fellow Scout, have taken the boy under our collective wing. He deserves to be a Scout just as much if not more than any other boy in the Troop!

My 15yr old daughter (and Senior Girl Scout) served as a Staff Member at both Boy Scout and Cub Scout Summer camp this past summer. My husband was also on staff. We had two or three Senior Girl Scouts serving on the staff with no problems. I suppose screening a staff application for references and/or knowing who the staff applicant knows as far as other applicants may help quash any "hooking up in the woods" situations.

Hi LNT

Not sure where you were going with this... looks like you had a problem with the server cutting you off. I had a similar problem with a few posts. Thought I would respond to you and hopefully bump it up some.

I have to agree BW. I mean honestly, how much is a Scout really getting out of the program when he is an Eagle at 14 years old because he was constantly offered Eagle-required MBs by his Troop?

Up until this year, as far as I can tell the MBs were being taught to the entire Troop (about 40 boys) by one person (MBC/ASM/SM/SPL), mostly at Troop Meetings. So naturally the Troop was pumping out plenty of Merit Badges, but I wonder what percentage of those 40 boys have retained the information he was supposedly credited for learning?

A new SM has taken over and has made clear the Troop is not going to be an Eagle factory or MB mill any longer. Parents are freaking out now because they are afraid their son isn't going to like Scouting if he's not constantly handed a MB to do. (And I do mean "handed"; rarely before now were the boys responsible for picking a MB they wanted to do themselves.)

It's an uphill hike from here... things were made too easy for this Troop and now it's become the rule rather than the exception to constantly be on watch for how many scouts need what MB and make sure we get it taught. That, in my opinion, is not a boy-led Troop at all. What do you think?

The new SM could potentially lose Scouts by insisting on a boy-led Troop, the patrol method, and doing away with the eagle factory and MB mill. Essentially, the SM is

taking the Committee and Parents away from the power they have had for some time to dictate the way the Troop is run.

Is it better to lose Scouts in order to preserve the BSA program? I think so. I just wish the parents/ other committee members were better educated on what the Scouting methods are. This aint the 3rd Year Webelos Program!