Joni4TA

Our Bear den did one about 5 years ago that was great. We lived in the Mojave desert and there was this invasive shrub/tree called the Tamarisk or "salt-cedar." They have the ability to take in great amounts of water (up to 300 gallons a day or something) and at the same time deposit salt into the soil, neither of which is good for the already drought-ridden desert.

Anyhow, our Den found many of these shrubs growing in flash-flood canals. They grew quickly and blocked openings for drainage. We contacted the local Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs directorate and worked out a plan where our den would go find a good collection of these salt cedars and we would hack them down to just above the roots and then the NREA would come in and poison the stalks so they wouldn't grow back.

It was great fun, a lot of hard work (just think, Bear scouts with saws! ) and the den earned their World Conservation Award!

Good luck with yours!

Congrats Kristi!

I, too find these forums a great resource. Any time you can bounce things off a colective bunch of Scouters and come out informed, refreshed and even more enthused about Scouting, it's an awesome thing.

PN - you're so right it is easier said than done about removing the emotion. It may be possible, maybe even after the initial blow-up, but at first, I have seen no other way than to be driven by emotion. People are driven by emotion for the most part, especially in volunteerism. If we're passionate about ourselves and our Scouting, it's difficult to remove that aspect of ourselves. Plus, Rixkidz said #1 was "She", and I am a female leader too; believe me, I am driven by emotion!

I agree with a neutral body, or mediator and that would be the best thing. It's sometimes very hard to find one of those though when things get out in the open. Often there is a right and a wrong, and people are naturally not looking at the grey in between.

I am still trying to understand why, if #1 is the Den Leader, where did #3 and #4 come from? Are they parents of other boys in the Den? If so, then they should be familiar with #1 being the Den Leader, right? Perhaps #3 and #4 could still be a wonderful Scouter resource if put to work outside of the Den. A Pack can always use good, dedicated committee members. However if #3 and #4 are interfering with the Den program I can see where that needs to come to a head and stop, quick-like.

We have similar issues in our Troop and sometimes I think it has come down to "it's either you, me or the highway for one of us" kind of deal. Things can seem hopeless, irrepairable, and even downright petty. As much as you're driven by emotion that ticks you off, you can be driven by the emotion that you CAN make it work!

Good Luck!

Why in the heck would we have so many YP videos out there in circulation anyhow? And they are all so different from one another! That just doesn't seem to make sense. Then again... it does make sense, I stand there sometimes looking at our District library of materials and wonder "How old is THAT one?!?!" when I am looking at old beat-up JLT notebooks and such Since we'll be using the new NYLT, will the old JLT be phased out or will we still use BOTH, or either.. depending on how much time we have???

KS, I hear ya... and I feel your pain. I agree, the bridge during NLE was a little corny (and I am being nice). I think the best part about me taking the NLE was that they gave me a really nice binder with a Leader handbook and a bunch of xerox additions and I got to meet some other folks involved with neighboring units in our District. I had already served as a Den Leader for 3 years, a Webelos Den Leader for 1 year, and a Pack Advancements Coordinator for 1 year before I ever took that training, so I basically got OTJ training before training. Does that even make sense? Oh well...

In any case, you're right about not being able to make people go to training. Painfully so, I am afraid. And I have heard it said, time is precious and no one wants to give any up (or any more up than they already do).

Fast Start feels like a "band-aid" as you call it, especially for folks who have had no training but have been involved in a unit for a while. The video explains just enough to recognize how things are ideally supposed to be, but not enough to make you want to go to NLE or Leader Specific.

And some people think they know it all and it doesn't matter who tells them differently, they still believe they are right. Don't they call that self-righteous? Well, maybe they do, maybe they don't but it's a sticky situation when dealing with volunteers anyhow.

Training is definitely one of those subjects that could go on and on...

If you don't do advancement awards, you may consider certificate of appreciation awards for adult leaders to be presented at the B & G. I have always felt the birthday was a good time to show thanks to the selfless volunteers that untimately make the program a reality for the kids.

We've always been big on a "Fellas Cake Bake" or "Dad and Lad Cake Bake" in our Packs, silent auctions have worked also, skits, songs, some kind of entertainment presentation.

Personally, I am a committee member not an ASM, but I find myself being harder on my own son than I am on others. As a aresult, in order to give him his freedom, I choose to remain a committee member (even though I'd love to be an ASM and have taken Scoutmaster training). I want HIM to enjoy Scouting so I just sort of butt-out, but sit on the committee so I can at least make sure he gets a fun and exciting program.

I forgot to add...

I actually have found a few PPT files out there on the web for Scouting.

I have downloaded them - Leave NO Trace, Safety Afloat, and I think the last one was Junior Leader Training. They are created by other scouters so they should be checked for accuracy before use and tailored to your unit if needed.

Are you talking for Committee Meetings or what?

Our SM had a gorgeous PP Presentation for his SM's report last committee meeting. Unfortunately the copy of Windows 2000 Pro wasn't receptive, and he was unable to use it

I think a visual aide is always a good idea, if possible. I think folks prefer to "see AND hear" as opposed to just hear. I know I do.

Well, I love OGE's input on this. I felt pretty horrible for the OA folks and as I said, I was embarrassed FOR our Troop and I wasn't even present that day for the elections! This type of behavior just adds to the reputation our Troop has built up within the District over the last several years (self-centered!). The new SM, with the help of a few others, is trying to change that but things like this give the Troop several steps back unfortunately.

I am being challenged on the authenticity of this video belonging to the BSA catalog. I had Youth Protection in 2000 with the use of this video (20min. video). I have also had the longer 2-3 hour course (obviously.... as YP is an annual requirement and I have had no breaks in service since 1999).

Anyone else have this in their District libraries? Do people use it?

I have decided in lieu of a formal external training at this time, I can at least show the two videos Boy Scout Leader Fast Start Orientation and Youth Protection Guidelines, which are self-explanatory and really don't require trainer interaction at all. Of course they are fairly primitive and don't give much in-depth training either. But It's a start!

Thanks to Tsunami relief efforts, most of our District Training team is nowhere near us right now, but I have been in contact with one of them, and we're going to try and set something up the second week of Feb. Wish us luck!

Hi, I should have added some more background to the issue of the Advancements person handling the entire database.

1) the person refuses at times to make any changes the SM asks them to or it takes them over 6 weeks to make a change (something as simple as a calendar item - we won't even get into something like a training date or an advancement)

2) the person DOES NOT have a good cooperative working relationship with the SM, and instead does nothing but talk about him behind his back, trying to get others to hop on the "I hate the SM bandwagon". In fact, the Advance person went behind the SM's back just recently and told the CC that she wanted the SM's resignation! The CC was forced to call the SM to get his thoughts, then he had to waste his time calling every committee member to get their thoughts. Bottom line was, the CC didn't feel there would even be enough "votes" to get rid of the SM. Secondly, the SM has 100% of the District's support! So not only is the Advance person a problem, but they are also causing problems for the SM. That coupled with the ASM that won't let go being her spouse (they run as a team, I sometimes believe the ASM is doing the Advancements and not the Advancements person) it's a combination problem!

Seems like you've got a good program schedule there. You could always start earlier if you are worried about cramming too much in to the time frame you already have.

I agree with Johndaigler on the skit, song or run-on issue. Something I have always thought was neat at B&G's was to have the adults do a funny skit for the kids - they like watching the leaders be goofy at times, too

Here are some quick, funny gags that can be put into just about any show, or combined with other gags. These may also be useful as Scout meeting skits, classroom assignments, etc.

Funny Handshakes

This was made famous by the Marx Brothers. Whenever two clowns meet, they hold out their hands as though to shake hands, then lift their legs up into the others hand and shake each other's ankles.

Walking the Tightwire

Clown enters carrying the rope, an umbrella, a blindfold, and wearing a tu-tu. On stage are two chairs. He ties the rope to the back of each chair, then pulls them apart until the rope is tight. The clown now puts on the blindfold, (but loosely, so he can easily see by looking down his nose.) Now he needs the umbrella, but with the blindfold on, he can't find it. Fumble around for it, and when you finally find it, open it up. However, he is holding the umbrella the wrong way, and it opens up in his face, which knocks him backwards.

Finally get it right. Now he steps onto the chair, and tries to walk on the rope, but the chair falls. He goes over to the next chair, steps up onto it, and tries again. This chair also falls. Both chairs are fallen with the rope draped between them, sitting on the ground. Now it is an easy matter to walk the tight rope, but the clown still makes it look difficult. Get to the other side and bow for your applause.

The Highly Trained Flea

Clown trainer offers to show a clown spectator a trained flea for only five dollars, which is paid. Clown spectator is asked to hold the flea's jacket, boots, and hat, which he does. Now the flea does many amazing tricks, such as jumping from one hand to the other, doing back flips, etc. There is actually no flea, only the Clown trainer using his eyes and head "watching" how the flea is moving (pantomime).

When the flea is finished, clown trainer applauds, then slowly realizes that he just squashed the flea. He starts crying and acting very sad. Clown spectator is not upset in the least and he says he never believed there was a flea in the first place. Clown trainer pauses, and asks "Then why are you holding the flea's clothing?" Clown spectator gets angry, throws the flea's clothes down on the floor, and stomps off. Clown trainer smiles, then takes a big wad of five dollar bills from his pocket and counts all his money as he walks away.

Clown First Aid

At some point a clown pretends to get hurt, and two other clowns come on with a stretcher to take him away. However, the stretcher is just two broom sticks with a blanket laid on top of them. Lay stretcher down, roll patient onto stretcher, then pick up stretcher and walk off. The gag is, the blanket from the stretcher, and the patient, stay on the ground while the two clowns walk off with just the poles.

This is very funny with ambulance driver type jackets, siren sound effects, flashing lights, and frantic, hurried movements. A scout troop here in Atlanta wore hats with battery powered sirens on top. Very funny!

Running Gag

This means it is done throughout the show, the first part near the beginning, the second in the middle, and the third near the end.

1: Clown walks onstage with a case of soft-drinks (empty cans in cardboard box.) Another clown (or show MC, scoutmaster, teacher) says... "Where are you going with those?" Clown replies "I'm taking my case to court."

2: Clown walks on again with a case of soda and a small ladder. Other clown asks "Where are you going now?" First clown replies... "I'm taking my case to a higher court."

3: First clown enters with empty cardboard box. Other clown asks "What now?" First clown replies "I lost the case."

Question... does the Den Leader have an effective Asst. Den Leader? If not, perhaps you could step up to the plate?

I remember being a Wolf Den Leader. I actually only got the Cub Scout Leader Fast Start Orientation Training (which is about a 45 minute video) and that helped me immensely to better understand the format of running a den meeting, as well as the basics of cub scouting. This training is now avilable online at this link:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/faststart/

Also, there is a publication, the annual edition of Cub Scout Program Helps. It contains the entire year's program helps for Cub Scouting. You can get a copy of it from your local Scout Shop or by mail-order directly from BSA. Perhaps the Den Leader doesn't know of this, doesnt have one or forgot about it? Cubmasters usually have these books too; it helps them plan for the Pack Meetings. This book is great, it gives sample den meeting agendas for the different cub ranks and helps to incorporate the monthly themes into the meetings, and usually lists the advancements and electives towards earning that rank that coincide with the theme.

The suggested themes for this year are:

January 2005 Cub Scouts Spread the News

February 2005 It's a Scouting Celebration!

March 2005 Invention Convention

April 2005 Waterways of the USA

May 2005 Pet Pals

June 2005 Destination Parks

July 2005 Play Ball!

August 2005 Campfire Tales and Traditions

Another awesomely great resource for cub scouting is the monthly District Roundtable! I notice you are in Connecticut, and I am not sure where your District is, but you can find out by asking your Cubmaster or anyone on the Pack Committee (someone is bound to know). Roundtables are basically meetings that are held monthly for the purpose of giving adult leaders the skills and ideas to deliver an exciting program to our youth membership. These roundtables also serve to renew each Scouter's enthusiasm and dedication. Cub Scout roundtables feature ceremonies, games and activities for den and pack meetings built around the next month's theme.

A good semi-local web resource that may be good for you is:

Scouts NewEngland

http://sne.tripod.com/index.html

They cover everything Scouting related in the states of Connecticut,

Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont.

Perhaps sharing these or other resources you find, with the Den leader will give him the jumpstart he needs to be a better Leader!

Good Luck!

For those of you familiar with how the master system and satellite systems work on the TroopMaster program, I have a question for you.

Why should an Advancments Coord. be handling the ENTIRE (Master) database and providing the Scoutmaster with a read-only program?

We have an Advancements Coord. and their spouse, an ASM (who used to be the SM) that refuses to change their system from the Master to an "Advancements Satellite" and their reasoning is "We have a superior method for data safety and virus protection."

Shouldn't the Advancements person be handling ONLY the Advancements? To me, this makes sense.

If the SM isn't the Master Database controller, he can't make any adjustments whatsoever to TroopMaster, to include Patrol assignments, Adult Leader assignments; he can't update or adjust the calendar, input new scouts or basically anything.

With the Advancements person refusing to give up the the main database, they are maintaining complete control of the Troop and not allowing the SM to do his job, wouldn't you say? The SM has asked the Advancements person to make changes, and at times the Advancements person plain refuses to make the changes! Isn't this program interference?

What to do, what to do...

What do you do (or not do) with a Former SM (who ran an Eagle Mill and Merit Badge Factory), never allowed the Troop to be boy-run, and still interfere's with the new SM's position and program, as an ASM?

And then there is his wife, the Advancement Coordinator, who will not allow the new SM to be the "master" database keeper (in TroopMaster) and still has the Former SM signing Merit Badges, bad-mouths the new SM behind his back to anyone who will listen, etc.

Our CC is untrained and therefor I can't blame him at all for not assering his position in the matter, though he is painfully aware of the territorial pissing. The bad thing is, all the boys are aware too. We get boys who approach the former SM/ASM and rather than shuffle the boys to the SM, he handles things the way HE sees fit, and then never bothers to even consult the SM! The boy will tell the SM at some point about the advice he received from former SM/ASM and the new SM feel obviously undermined. Wouldn't you?

Example - New SM encourages ALL Scouts and Scouters to wear their FULL scout uniform to meetings. The Former SM/ASM tells the SPL that the SM can't decide that, it's a PLC decision. First of all the ASM is WRONG, but worse than that, the ASM undermined the SM's authority right there and then!

Former SM who won't let go, that's the main issue. What to do? Who says a Former SM should be an ASM? the New SM didn't appoint him to be an ASM, I guess he decided this himself... Your thoughts?

I don't blame the OA folks for being ticked off AT ALL! They came out of their way to come to our Troop meeting to do an election within the eligible boys of the Troop. Apparently some of the boys decided to be funny and placed votes for "Mickey Mouse", "Anyone but _______", etc. Some of them didn't take it seriously and as a result, screwed a couple boys out of a chance to be elected (because of the necessary votes needed to elect). The SPL was pissed and the whole Troop received a good ear spanking!

Here's where I have the question --

As we understand it, the election stands, and is valid.

There are a couple Adult Leaders that are upset and are voicing their opinions rather loudly, one even insisted there would be another election (she's wrong and we know there isn't going to be another election, but she's still whining and bad-mouthing the OA folks).

Now correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't that one female leader be more upset at the boys that voted the way they did? Why blame the OA folks for accepting the election as it stands? If they run an election and one person gets enough votes, that makes it legal right?

I really appreciate all the posts, comments, and suggestions. We're getting there. I know it will be a slow process but I have faith this will turn around and get moving in the right direction. Too bad it will probably be just in time for us to have to leave it. (We are overseas military and we leave in 5 months to go back to the USA)

It's too bad this Troop was allowed to run like this for so long because they produced so many "Eagles" and yet not a one of them understands what it really means to have EARNED that title. Every single Eagle that they pushed through the Merit Badge Mill has never come back even one time to a Troop meeting to help teach a younger boy. And that is a shame!

Makes sense.. all the advice

I can't say NO ONE is trained in the Troop. The SM is, one of the ASMs is, the Advancment Chr is, and I am... but we have almost 36 boys, and twice as many parents. We have a full Committee, and getting THEM trained, as well as the rest of the ASMs is like pulling teeth.

Same thing here, we get that deer in the headlights look about how no one knew who's job it is and all that, and I constantly stress training!!! Hell I never intend to go be a SM and I went and got SM training just so someone on the Committee could relate to the SM better!! LOL

I guess I will keep jumping up and down and screaming it like Chicken Little and the sky is falling. Our District Training Team is all over the place right now thanks to operations in Iraq, the Phillipines and the Tsunami damage areas. (Military Scout District on an island here!) So no one is really available to do an "in-house" training session. And these folks keep blowing off the District provided sessions once a month.

I would give the training session but I really feel like it would be better absorbed if it came from someone outside the Adult Troop Leadership. Why? Because I think I am starting to sound like a broken record to these people and I don't want to sound holier than thou on top of that since I HAVE been trained!

I remember being a Wolf Den Leader...

Way back when I was lucky if I could get my Wolves to sit still for 5 minutes let alone pay attention long enough to effectively carry out a service project! The more the merrier!

I'd count it

Semper,

Luckily, we have an excellently strong CC! Unfortunately he's never had Training either But, he is very intelligent, resourceful and supportive. His son is our SPL, and he has seen the changes in his own son - change for the good. The CC even commented, he's watching his son having to THINK for a change! LOL CC does support the SM, and the changes in the Troop. We are working on getting all the parents trained (I think - I keep stressing the issue, some folks are actually looking into it), I am sending links to National BSA info on the net, as well as emailing the entire Troop when there are Training courses being offered anywhere in our District.

Our CC has already had a Parent Meeting and basically told them, that Hey... the new SM isn't the old guy, he's not going to do what the old guy did and he's doing things HIS way, and is supported by District as well as BSA policy. How can any untrained, ill-informed Committee/Parents argue with that? I sit on that Committee too, and I have been trained. I feel a little at a bias though, this "New" SM is my spouse.

I did not go to the Parent's Meeting on purpose so that the folks could talk with the CC and voice their opinions without feeling intimidated. However, in the Committee Meetings, I am constatly having to remind folks what they should and should not be doing, trying to plan, scheme, take from the boys' responsibility etc. I can't back down there, I am truly the only effective Committee Member for change, aside from the CC.

MBs are already being slotted plenty of time to be taught on the same days, but prior to, the weekly meetings. We have quite a few Adult Leaders who double as MBCs involved in our Troop, they are more than welcome to offer MBs any other time than the Troop Meeting. The SM is no longer "THE ONLY" MBC, that's all.

Also, a nearby Troop does a MB Day once a week and our Troop's boys have been unilaterally invited to attend that workshop and take on MBs anytime. This has been a few months now - None have attended.

I have personally provided each Scout in the Troop with a listing of all the District MBCs who handle Eagle Required MBs. So far, no one has approached the SM for a Blue Card, but we'll see.

On top of all that, our District does a Merit Badge of The Month where they provide a counselor and offer a MB to 20 boys (first come, first serve). The boys have to call up the Scout Shop themselves and sign up. So far, only a handful have participated in that program in the last year.

So they aren't being cut off from Merit Badges cold turkey, but as close to it as the SM could get. His goal was to remove MBs from the weekly Troop Meeting. For that, he has succeeded. I wish these people could get over it and grasp the fact that a weekly Troop Meeting is meant for other purposes than a simple MB session, and that there is more to Boy Scouting than constantly being handed a Merit Badge worksheet.

Funny you mention that the SM must elect his own ASMs! He just called and "recruited" some currently registered, and strong ASMs to be assigned to a Patrol, as a Patrol Advisor this evening. The SM's plan is to do the JLT, with the ASMs in tow, so that the Patrols and Advisors/ASMs will learn together!! It's a quick fix, and hopefully will take. It's like putting scotch tape on a bicycle handle grip. It's not going to hold forever, but perhaps it will spark an interest in the ASMs, and motivate them to get further training - the New Leader Ess., BS Fast Start, Scoutmaster Specific, SOMETHING --- ANYTHING!

I am probably emailing these folks to death about Roundtables, misc. websites, program helps, links to nearby Troop websites and information ALL OVER, to include THIS SITE! I want them to ask around, start figuring out why the SM is effecting the changes he is, and where he is coming from. Because you're right, you can't just stand there and keep throwing BSA policy in people's faces, you end up sounding like a pompous fool with an ego problem! That's not this SM - but he is very strong in his Scouting beliefs and is also very tired of the former regime trying to undermine his implementation.

One of the biggest problems is convincing the parents and Committee Members that they don't need to, and plainly should NOT hang out in the weekly Meeting hall, talking and kibitzing in the rear, and basically disrupting things as they see fit. I told the SM to simply open another room in the meeting place, and shuffle them into it, period.

A bunch of women yacking in the back of a Scout meeting is ridiculous, but on top of that many are overprotective Mommies and feel the need to insert their parental voices across the room to effect discipline. Hey, I am a Mom and I know that would be my first instinct if I was in the same room as my son and saw him acting inappropriately. Therefore, I am one of those Committee Members who stays home while my son attends his Troop Meetings. Unless I am ASKED to be there for a specific purpose, I don't see the point in going into the meeting and adding further disruption. I have been accused of "not being involved", only "showing up for Committee Meetings", BORs, picnics, parties, etc. And I make it clear, as a Committee Member, that is what I am supposed to do, not hover over the Troop like a mother hen cackling behind all the boys and pecking at them to stay in line!

I offered my advice to the SM. I felt the best way to tackle the problem was to remind these Moms, Parents, Committee Members that if they were bringing their sons to a Baseball practice, Soccer practice, or band practice, where they were sitting in the bleachers or in the audience hall, walking into the practice field or on the stage as they saw fit, they would most certainly NOT be hollering across the field or room at their children. And I am quite sure if it continued EVERY practice, the coach or music teacher would ask that they kindly discontinue the behavior. Am I Wrong? And the Troop Meeting is no different!

A work in progress, but Ahhhhh the frustration!!!!!!!!

Please, keep the suggestions and comments, war stories, success stories, COMING! I am very appreciative!

YIS

If I wasn't overseas, I would probably have the Jan issue already! For some reason we get our issues about a month late, due to the postage rate. :::shrug::: oh well!

Congrats!

OGE, that is a great idea. In fact, a Troop within a mile radius meets the same night and time our Troop does. Also, the nearby Troop hosts a special "MB day" once a week on a separate night.

I actually went through SM Training with one of the ASM's from this other Troop, and he gave our Troop an open invitation to join them at anytime for joint activities. Being a mere Committee Member, I can't do much more than inform the Committee and SM of these opportunities. I know the SM has passed on the information to the Boys but they are so used to being catered to by the former SM, this Troop never was big on inter-troop events or District functions. I think they are still in shock from having their "pacifier" taken away so to speak. No one has shown any interest in joining another Troop for much.

Perhaps the SM could use visiting another Troop's meeting as a "Training" Method though, for the PLC and ASMs!