John-in-KC

Finallyyy... I used to be an Owl, and a Good Old Owl Too. But now I've finished Owling and I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Owl No More; So I'm going to work my Ticket if I can... Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can. John HOOT! HOOT OWLS!!!!

Scouter 4321 wrote: "I was thinking "we" as in the troop leaders. But I guess the scoutmaster could decide at the Scoutmaster conference whether he goes on any further after the project is finished." Having read through this thread, I have two specific recommendations for Scouter4321, in direct regard to the advancement of the young man: 1) Contact the District and/or Council Advancement Chairman. Do this today, not tomorrow. They need to be brought up to speed on FACTS and CIRCUMSTANCES. Should the young man appeal a denied Eagle at any stage, they are key players in the process. 2) Contact the Scout Executive soonest. Find the attorney the council uses as General Counsel. Find out if there are Scouters who are GOOD criminal defense attorneys. Visit with them. Know the law regarding how youthful offenders are handled IN YOUR AREA. Follow that law to the T. (NOTE: Point 2 follows on from NLDScout. THANK YOU for pointing out the rules in your area. That's the impetus of the above). I also have a recommendation in regard to the rumormongering: 3) Do what Lisa'Bob says about one (or more) Scoutmaster minutes about "what people know" and "what is property crime."

Scouter4321, We're not being quite clear enough. EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE EAGLE BOARD OF REVIEW MUST BE COMPLETED BY HIS EIGHTEENTH BIRTHDAY. Merit Badges, project, POR, Scout Spirit, and Scoutmaster Conference. If all that is DONE, THEN AND ONLY THEN (at least in my council) will the Council Service Center entertain a delayed Eagle application. As OGE said, 90 days of delay seems to come with no questions asked. Beyond that, the Council and/or National get involved. If the work isn't done by the 18th birthday, then normally usually generally 99 44/100 per cent of the time, the young man is a Life for life. (Special Needs are another situation altogether). As far as the rumormongering goes, A SCOUT IS TRUSTWORTHY, LOYAL... rumormongering helps no one, and can hurt many. The Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster need to put their feet down and stop it. If you don't, you risk making a bad situation worse. At best, spreading a rumor may garner the attention of the defense attorneys, who will want to impeach the prosecutions case. At worst, if the young man is innocent or acquitted, there can be some slander suits heading the way of boys, parents, and Scout leaders. Taking things one bite at a time: - Keep the young man working towards his Eagle SM Conference. The app and the EBOR can take care of themselves. - Don't do dumb things. - Stop the rumormongering.

Lisa'Bob is certainly right. In fact, for maximum synergy, and to keep your "one hours a week" in check, ALL THREE PROGRAMS should roundtable the same night, at the same site. Our Cub RT commish runs her meetings as a model pack meeting. ... skits, songs, the works. We're blessed to have a not quite mega-church as our facility host: Cubs get a large room (100 seats or so) and 4 20 person breakout rooms; Boys get the gym and 3-6 20-40 person rooms, and Venturing has its own 40 person room. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I'm a serving roundtable staffer. I have physical arrangements as my area. First, if roundtable is not ONE STOP UNIT SERVICE for your Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, Crew Advisors, Committee Chairs, and Scouters in general ... point yourself to that goal. Here are the monthly things that happen at the roundtable site, on roundtable night, that are actually furnished by the District Committee and its operating committees: Advancement: - Eagle Leadership Service Project review and approval. - Merit Badge Corner: Bring in a counselor to show his passion in one of the non-Eagle MBs. Consider, since National seems to be revisiting every Eagle required badge, providing update training on them as well. Training: - New Leader Essentials Common Core. - Merit Badge Counselor Training - Youth Protection Training Membership: - Membership chairman has a table with recruiting/retention promotions. Relationships: - RED Team Camping and Activities - Camporee Signup, Klondike sign-up, GTFA publicity - OA Chapter meeting. Key 3: Always around to chat and take notes. Building synergy helps give people a reason to attend roundtable. They KNOW they can get their business done. As far as program ideas go, the sky is the limit. Last year we had a night of cooking demos. Dutch ovens, camping stoves, backpacking stoves. Last year we also had a car show during "mechanics" themed month. Went over really well. Indian attire in support of honor camping organizations is always a hit. We're in a Mic-o-Say council, and we have a large OA lodge, so we get double payoff. Fitting backpacks has long been a program we give in January (just after kids get their Scouting Christmas) ... goes over huge with adults and youth. For Cultural Diversity (March 06 theme, RT in 2 weeks), the SM for our 2007 World Jamboree Council Troop is coming to promote a trip to Gilwell. "I'm going to Scout Camp, and in my Camp Box I have..." One of the Camp Directors for the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation is a UC in our district. He's going to have a talk with first year Scouters and first time Camp Scoutmasters ... not the drone heard at Council orientation, but the tried and true survival hints. - A standing feature is "Scoutmaster to Scoutmaster." Improve how units get to true boy run units by sharing what works and getting feedback on the challenges. Training IS available for Roundtable commish and staffers. Philmont Training Center offers both a Boy and a Cub Scout Roundtable Course. http://www.scouting.org/philmont/ptc/courses/courses.cgi?c=Boy+Scout+Roundtables (this won't hyperlink ... cut and paste to your browser) For 2006 the course is 11-19 August. I'll also invite you this November to the Heart of America Council Commissioners College course: Bachelor in Roundtable Service. Cheaper than PTC (but not "out in God's Country... tonight!, either). Our council website is http://www.hoac-bsa.org . Have fun with your journey as an RT Commish. You are a key resource to your District!! John A Good old Owl Too(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Lisa, It's ok to vent, and it's ok to vent among friends. We wouldn't be very good friends if we only wanted to see the good side of you. Only one woman on this planet should have permission to decide your agenda: Her name is Lisa'Bob You, and only you, have your strength, skills, and passion for this Grand Game. You have an idea of where you want your piece of the jigsaw puzzle to fit. Claim it! :-D It's all for the youth. If we aren't here for them, then we may as well be in some other service organization, or perhaps in a power lunch networking group. But ... we are, and we choose to be, Scouters. Your Troop 1 neckerchief isn't a green light for every other volunteer in your Council to say "come help me burn both ends of the candle." Do what you see that matters to Scouting, your unit, and your family. You're part of the 15%. In spite of everyone hitting you up, you don't have to be the 15% all by yourself. John who has to assess each "only another hour a week" rather carefully anymore.. ... and a Good Old Owl Too...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I agree with Lisa, and I hope one of our attorneys (paging Kahuna) would weigh in. There are potential Fifth Amendment issues, for the boy, and potential slander issues, for the Committe, in exploring "did you do this?" Specialists with their specialized tools and skills are needed here!

To my way of thinking, again, common sense applies: Check the emotional relationship at the Crew door. The next simplest solution is Jack and Jill register as ACMs/ASMs in Cub/Boy Scouting. They are then Scouters in a program.

Congratulations !!! John A Good Old Owl Too...

Fred, I'm not blaming BSA here. I just haven't thought this particular challenge through. Thanks

Eamonn, I violently agree with everything you say. Troop Committee Challenge is a GOOD course for any level of the Scouting program, imo.

My crew is not co-ed ... yet. Will that day ever come? Maybe. Other area Crews are co-ed. The rules are voiced, rather than written, and fairly simple: - Leave the emotional part of the relationship at the door. - Understand that if you break up, you are both still welcome in the Crew. - Understand that your teamwork is essential to the Crew working well. - Understand we enforce the rules on sleeping areas (gender AND age separation). (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Please define "older." I'm assuming you are talking about HS students. There are many, many opportunities for older youth. Not all of them may have weekly attendance at Troop meetings tied off to them. 1) Look at each one of them as an individual. PLAY TO THEIR STRENGTHS AND DEVELOPING INTERESTS. Got a young man contemplating ministry? Make him a Chaplains' Aide, but see if the local Cub Pack would like him to counsel do God and Me (Wolf/Bear Protestant curriculum). Another interested in medicine? Send him off to take EMT training. When he comes back, make him JASM to oversee first aid instruction. He can train the trainers. A varsity swimmer? Give him oversight of the unit aquatics program. 2) Look at other resources: Is a young man interested in leadership? Get him involved at the Chapter or Lodge level in Order of the Arrow. Is he a budding Thespian? Again, to the OA Lodge ... but have him seek out the Ceremonial Team. Maybe there is a Scout interested in the bio-sciences. Get him on Council camp staff, and get him some skills in presenting instruction, as well as deepening his knowledge of content. 3) Is keeping him in the Troop the best path for the young man? Would sending him to a Venturing Crew be better for his growth and development, including his socialization skills? To restate: - Look at them as individuals. - Look at the resources of your Council and area. - Look at the best path for the Scout.

Aloha, Kahuna, I think you're right and wrong in your comment about the Senators not having to ask technical legal questions. It should have been blindingly obvious, very fast, that Judge Alito has forgotten more law than most of these "politician attorneys" ever learned in law school. OTOH, silly season for 2006 is open, and Sam Brownback even showed us Presidential silly season for 2008 has had its opening gong rung (digression: There's an idea: Citizens playing "The Gong Show" with Senators.) Both sides of the aisle were posturing to their bases as part of silly season. As for me, I agree: If the Democrats try a filibuster, they deserve what they get. OTOH, I am still against using the "constitutional option" of changing the Senate's rules of filibuster. That will come back to haunt whoever forces that change. Not now, not five years from now, but it will. Finally, where are Mark Twain and Will Rogers when we really need them? Quite a few of our 535 elected denizens of Capitol Hill could do with some ego deflation.

Fred, Something we DIDN'T cover when we took "Scouting and the Church's Ministry" at PTC: Americans, by and large, use monotheism as our construct of God. Other nations in the World Movement have polythesim bases for substantial population elements: Hindu on the Indian subcontinent, and Shinto in Japan. How does BSA relate for those youth whose families profess these two faiths in particular? Looking at PRAY's website (and crosslinks with the National Relationships Committee), I see US Hindu youth can earn one of two awards, maybe three. Are there other polytheistic bodies which have award programs? Your classmate John Now a good old Owl too

Lisa, All I can say is: Do the things as a Scouter you are good at, and that give you a personal sense of service. Knowing when to say "sorry" is a vital skill to a Scouter working with other adults. The old adage from church is: 15% of the folk do 85% of the work. Truer than we want it to be. John A Good Old Owl Too

I gotta wait for a Fox to show up, then it's my turn Does it count if my TG is a Fox? Can I sing their verse for them? John A Good Old Owl, Too...

In one of my son's non-Scouting lives, he is a 4th year tuba player. I was taking him home from his lesson yesterday when NPR started the evening summary of the day's confirmation hearings. We like backtalking the radio: "Shut up, Ted! By the way, how's Mary Jo Kopeckne?" "Shut up, Sam! This isn't the 2008 Presidential race yet." "Shut up, Dianne! Do you understand the concept of Beating a Dead Horse? No? Too bad. You've been doing it for hours!" Then I introduced him to that favorite line of Mr Clemens: "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a Member of Congress; but I repeat myself." The Brits have it right. Our Congresscritters need to be able to stand some heckling!!!

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Eric, That's a huge opportunity, make the most of it. Keep working towards your Eagle!!! Tell us what you can when you can! John

I took Venturing Leader Specific Training about 14 months ago. It covers both program and support sides, along with VENTURING YP training! The key takeaway is more and more decisions, along with more and more operational responsibility, drops down to the members. Committee folks are there mainly for mentorship, backup, and legal cover. John A Good Old Owl Too

I'm beginning to wonder if Ms Meiers wasn't a stalking horse nominated with malice aforethought by the President? I still believe she would have been a competent Justice; but what's done is done there. I'm waiting to see how the politics of confirmation will play out. I am exceptionally leery of the "Constitutional option;" it will come back to haunt those who put it in play. Of course, with Judge Alito being rated a strong "well qualified" by the ABA, I believe the politics lie with the 14 who made the compromise last year. If they say they'll support 60 vote cloture in a filibuster, it's all over, including the shouting.

Since Jerry Schleining is ready for beading, is it time to do another virtual round? Okay, let's get started. Is there a Beaver in the house?

Congratulations, Jerry !!! May you have many happy years of serving youth by Scouting. John A Good Old Owl, Too

To tack on a REGULATORY/MANDATORY statement from BSA National, I've extracted the following from the current Guide to Safe Scouting: "Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting "The BSA has adopted the following policies to provide additional security for our members. These policies are primarily for the protection of our youth members; however, they also serve to protect our adult leaders from false accusations of abuse. {portions omitted} "No secret organizations. The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." I trust, VCservice559, the point is crystal clear now. In Cheerful Service!