John-in-KC

Nine months? Sixteen meetings? Whatever happened to the premise of weekly Den meetings? Kids need frequent engagement, or they forget. BTW, lest folk think I'm talking about my own Cub experience (too long ago), I'm talking about EagleSons... 10 years ago he was about to promote from Wolf to Bear. As for advancement, who said a Den cannot work on advancement? The last time I checked, both the Cubmaster and the Den Leader were part of Akela every bit as much as the adults in the Cubs' home...

Ed, If the Pack makes the choice, then the Pack should underwrite the cost. At the time, 75% of my disposable income went to my rent, mortgage payment on what was still our house, and child support. A dictum like that would have resulted in me taking his membership elsewhere, probably out of Scouting. My opinion.

Fred, Yes, I did, in writing to the Course Director, copied to the SE of the hosting Council. Heterodoxy is not good. Frankly, I don't attend OA induction weekend chapels in my lodge anymore. Talking about the goddess Gaia ripped the envelope. John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

And it doesn't... trust me!! EagleSon was not even 5' when he bridged. When he went to Philmont on the mountain trek, I had just bought him an adult large shirt. He was a little small in that. He's 6 foot something now, and boy do I wish Supply Corporation made a large-long shirt!

Fred, When we were at Philmont for "Scouting in the Church's Ministry" together back in 2003, I had a long talk with the Lutheran Chaplain to the Reservation ... the guy that did our opening night service. We talked at length about what happens when you mix people of multiple basic religions together. Pastor was adamant: Mixing and matching within Christendom was one thing, going outside is a clear breakage of the Gospel message. His advice was, if the audience of a worship was broadly Christian, proclaim that message. If not, do not "mix and match," rather do a lesson on a basic moral tenant and allow people to pray silently in their own tradition. What BSA proposes approaches anathema. A Christian can offend a Jew when he freely proclaims Christ as Messiah. Yet, that is what the Christian is called to do in worship. Equally, a Muslim denying Christ as the Godhead is offensive to the Christian. Joshua 24:14-19 is but one passage to be cited. In Matthew, Chapter 10:17-21 is another, 11:20-24 still another, and 12:1-13 a third. Mark 9:42-50 is yet another cautionary verse. I'm going to the Lutheran conference at PTC during Relationships week, this is something I'll be discussing with the pastoral advisor as well as the relationships staff pastors of ELCA and LCMS. I know BSA means well, but it should stick to its premise that the family is the responsible agency for faith. This is of eternal importance. As a Scouter, I cannot and will not prosletyze. As a Christian, God calls His people to proclaim the Word as written in Scripture. The tipping point is, within the Scouting community, to allow each to worship in his own way. My thoughts on this matter. Peace be with you, John

Mine is as I last posted it a long time ago, but I need to update it...

Mine didn't. He fit his blue shirt, he kept it through bridging.

Stosh, Not quite so. Any use of artillery would require a waiver... as National has added artillery systems to the prohibited list in G2SS... John

I apologize... somehow I caught Cubbing, not Boy Scouting. Indeed, NLE and Troop Committee Challenge. You may WANT to take Scoutmaster specific, even if to simply understand what your partner in crime goes through. Outdoor Leader Skills can be a good class, especially if you are new to the outdoors. Roundtable still applies. Get to know your District Advancement Chair! To me, one important person on the Committee is the person who keeps your unit database, whatever form it takes. This person has a lot of closely held info on your fellow leaders, as well as the kids. He/she will probably be the one who does the bulk of the recharter work and the Internet advancement work. Enough said for now

E, My issue is with folks who think the only place to show Scout Spirit is the Troop meeting or activity. We're human, just like Doug. Lord knows EagleSon has seen me spike the temper, more than once. He also knows one of my watchphrases is "get mad, get over it." I'd be delighted if we Scouters understand the concept of Scout Spirit to seek to live the Oath and Law 24/7/365 outside the Troop meeting place. That we should expect that in the meeting place is just that... a simple expectation.

You don't tell us what training you already have. Youth Protection Fast Start ... use the e-learning center at My Scouting New Leader Essentials training Pack Committee specific training then... Safe Swim Defense BALOO Attend Roundtable. Most of the administrative information from Council is shared there. If your Cub RT is at all good, it also runs a model Pack meeting. The Scouting website, in the Cub Scouting section, has lots of good info to help you spin up. Visit with your Unit Commissioner. If you don't know who he is, ask your DE to have the District Commissioner give you a call. KISMIF!

GW, Let's ask the other half of the question: How is your Council doing on fundraising targets? - Community FOS - Family FOS - Popcorn - United Way The short version is it takes $$$,$$$ to turn on the lights and pay the staff at your Scout office. Are there enough $$$,$$$ to meet the payroll, or is re-aligning the districts so 1 DE covers 300 units a sign your Council has some dollar problems?

One challenge I see coming at us is RENT. That's right, RENT. Not a one of the area schools anymore will let a civic group (any civic group) in for free. You want to use the facilitiy, open the checkbook... for our footprint (250 Scouters across the 3 programs) each month, we estimate we'd be paying local boards $500 a month. Not acceptable. Some churches are starting to charge external agencies rent. This is especially so for the "mega churches", it seems to us. 500-1000 person auditoria and the accompanying facilities again are high demand by all manner of folks, profit and non-profit. Other churches are having theft issues. I don't understand the logic, but paying rent seems to keep external actors and their light fingers at bay (assuming the theft happens when the building is open). Not good...

GW, Like BW said, Councils massage districts all the time. It looks like in your case the Council isn't meeting budget, so one cutback is to zap the unit serving exec corps. That's sorta important for your IH/COR to know. They need to insist on the correct level of support they get from Scouting, as the Chartered Partner. That starts with the annual service visit from the DE to the IH... You must be in a really big, really urban county. We are two counties with a bit over 100 units on charter, and we have a team of 3 Professional staff (District Director, Sr DE, DE).

Agree with ScoutNut. Even if your Pack has finished its program year, I assume you're going to Day Camp or doing some other summertime activity. Do it there, in front of all!!!

What we do... 1) FOOD. More than a few of our Scouters come straight from work to RT. It's sad but true, life is busy these days. We sell chicken nuggets and roller tacos and.... keeps the wolf from that door. 2) Annual chili cookoff fundraiser. Bring a cooker of chili and your recipe. Voting is done by the $$$ in the can next to your crockpot. 3) We like doing a Mechanics/Autos theme each June in addition to whatever the National program that year is. We have a car show, Scouters bring their wheels. Again $$$ in the can sets the winner. 4) We've done outdoor gear garage sale a few times. Donate the stuff you don't want. Someone buys it (trust me on that...). Our proceeds fund a door prize drawing at annual program fair. We've had the SE drop by for the car show, he knows what we're doing.

"Scoutmaster quietly reminds scouts during conferences of the scout spirit requiirement in most things scouting..." Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/life.aspx I don't get it. What part of everyday do we Scouters not understand about this Scout Spirit thing? [ rant ] It should be a Blinding Flash of the Intuitively Obvious to even the Casual Observer that a Boy Scout is to model the Scout Oath and Law when he's at a Scout meeting, camp, or activity. It's the rest of the 24/7/365 that the words Scout Spirit come into play... [ / rant ] sigh (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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Lisa, Things which can be done for low/no effort: 1) DE annual service calls to the IH/COR. Talk about how training is part of Council's support to the chartered partner. Are the units taking advantage? 2) Ask the DC to send the UCs out and discuss this informally with CCs and Program Officers. 3) Re-look your training frequency. Is training convenient to the student? Lowering barriers is part of the process. Thoughts, good lady. Have a good Scouting day

E said: "On our District List of Counselors there are a few MB's that only have one name listed as being the Counselor for that MB." That is, in my mind, the only reason on the planet a SM should allow a Scout to have his own parent be his MB Counselor.

From Requirements #33215 (online version)... "While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others " Plan and develop, Ed. Black and white. When it's developed to the point where someone can take it and run with it is entirely reasonable. As I said, from a unit-serving perspective, I've bought in, as have numerous other local Scouters. That said, we agree to respectfully disagree on this one. It could be worse; we could go on for 10 pages, have sixteen of our comments deleted by a Mod, and still not have changed each others minds. BTW, I like Dutch Oven Cobbler and ice cream. Do you want the last word?

Ed, I don't even need to call him for that... He'll look me straight in the eye and point to: ELSP Workbook 18-936 "and the council or district advancement committee" ACP&P #33088 (I don't have it with me for the moment) ... where it says his committee has the duty and authority to review and approve ELPs before they begin. He'll simply say, laser points in his eyeballs, that the standard is his way of assuring that his 10 approvers (our District averages 25 projects a month on initial presentation, and 90%+ get the go-ahead on the first pass) implement their training and work from a common perspective. He won't even hem and haw. As I said earlier, my own son made the bar on the first pass, and his was an out of the box ELSP. I have no problems with where the bar is locally.

I'm sorry you had to play "catch the javelin" on this one. Romans 12:17-21 comes in handy for times like these... 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Best thing you can do is be nice to her ... and as others have said, make sure you single out her Cub for appropriate high praise. BTW, it might be worth asking the school principal if there are economic or family issues which would have made being at B&G uncomfortable for the family. If there are, quiet help to overcome the barriers may be in the "right thing to do" box.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Gentlemen, While you are in your rare moment of agreement, I will invite you to Kansas City to explain the error of his ways to our District Advancement Chairman. I'll even buy you a barbecue dinner... after all, the condemned deserve hearty meals. As I said, there have been, to my knowledge, no local appeals of EBOR based on the District/Council advancement committee approval process. That to me is empirical evidence that our local advancement folks have shot inside the X ring.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Welcome to the Forums. Remember that Webelos are still within the Cub Scout program... they aren't yet Boy Scouts, and the Patrol Method is not yet in the lexicon. You can make the decision for them, if they get out of control. One option is to give them a limited set of choices to begin with...