JoeBob

"The thing that's driving training just seems to be legal CMA not any demonstrated program benefit for the kids." CONCUR! I second John-in KC's concurrence. After four years since coming back as a Scouter and eight or ten training classes, the only thing that I've actually learned in training is how to fill out paperwork. If they actually taught something useful, I wouldn't view training as punishment.

Gern, Most of the firearms are in the Red States...

I like to stay ahead of the curve. I'll take WB22C when it's offered.

Boys are changing. The culture is changing. The answers have to change. Video Gaming belt loop? Using a GPS for geo-caching? Sexting? That's a tiny sample of the answers that weren't even questions 5 years ago. I'm lurking in ambush for 'Woodbadge for the 22nd Century, EDGEed or Dull?' JoeBob

I've always thought that the first two steps were backwards. How do you Explain Scoutcraft without first Demonstrating it? I'm for DEER: Demonstrate the skill you want to teach. Explain why you did it that way, and how the student can learn to do it that way. Encourage the student in his efforts to do it himself. Review and Repeat as needed.

Our Fire Department did such a great job hosting the Tigers, that I felt that I had to do something in return. So I went to Sam's an got them enough New York strips to feed the crew. Since they cook their own meals at the firehouse, they appreciated the meat as a foundation for an exceptional meal. If you borrow this idea, don't make the same mistake I did: I should have left them MY address, in case there's ever a fire.

Sherminator, I'll probably never take WB21C. After probing beaded individuals face to face, and contemplating all the opinions expressed on this forum; I've reached the conclusion that WB21C is a leadership course aimed at retaining leaders in the BSA after their sons age out. And I really could use some more in depth material on being the best CM I can be. The position specific training was well intended, but shallow. Right now I need a good resource for pack games that involve 65-plus cubs in a cafeteria. After the various relay races, what is there? Roundtable? There is definitely a vacuum in the training curriculae. JoeBob

Not enough hard data. 1- You don't know which side is true, and you shouldn't use hearsay in an EBOR. 2- How large is this mom to be slapping and intimidating a 17 year-old boy? 3- Tales of abuse get you lots of sympathy and sleep overs at friends' houses. 4- If your dad is spanking you, and my dad isn't spanking me, which of us is being abused? Let me add that I'm glad I'm not in your position.

I must be more insensitive than most. I kept wondering what's wrong with sleeping cold under a space blanket... How else does a lad learn to use boughs as cover, buddies as bun warmers (NOT like that!), or to pack adequate sleeping gear in the future? 50 degree lows? I keep my bedroom at 62 when I can afford it.

You failed to include the 'North-bound Bi-pedal Border Crosser'. I hear they're quite common in Arizona and leave an easily distinguished trail of trash. Sorry. I couldn't help myself...

Empty coffee tins hung upside down on a string give a nice ring and jiggle for awhile when hit. Do head to head competitions using 3 knock downs and a bell-ringer. First to knock down his 3 targets and ring the bell (cofe tin) wins.

Did camp make a profit? They might be willing to let your kid go unpaid for the next two summers.

Scoutfish, You have a unique situation that I think makes many of us envious. A CO with the facilties to host overnighters onsite, close to home, and you're invited! I know I'm jealous. Regular overnight sleeping forays (I didn't call it camping) with the two Bear dens should lead to great bonding between boys and dads. Like I said earlier, it's not a camping trip; it's a sleepover at the CO's house. Go for it.

A follow-up to the argument that you're teaching the Cubs to break the rules: The Cubs are unaware of the intricate little micro-managing rules imposed by lawyers who are afraid of the dark. So you're not teaching them to break a rule they don't know about.

Scoutfish, I think it's a great idea! I can also see how 2 Bear dens camping would drive the BSA lawyers nutso. It's against their rules.. So don't involve the BSA. Have your hour long den meeting. And then adjourn to a group sleep-over at the CO's house!

Sherminator: It's not about you. I made a historical query about your screen name: "Grady spotted General William T. Sherman in the audience, the celebrated Yankee soldier who was credited with defeating and burning much of Georgia, and particularly Atlanta, on his infamous march to the sea. Without missing a beat, Grady acknowledged the general by noting that the people of Georgia thought Sherman an able military man, "but a mite careless about fire."" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_W._Grady Being careless with fire is un-scoutlike. Where's the 'no sense of humor' flag?

I guess I was a 'Rogue Den Leader' for awhile. I felt that the Leader meetings were overly long and unproductive. I had to choose between tennis practice and leader meetings, and so I only made the meetings on rainy nights. Now that I'm CM, I'm gonna work hard to make sure that the meetings move quickly and stay on a short track.

NJC: "I want the BSA national leadership to do the right thing" I appologize. I didn't know you were the one who decided what was right. Heck, even California voted to keep marriage as a social contract between a man and a woman. If California feels that way (federal judges not withstanding), the bulk of Scout parents have to be to the right of the Hollywood State. sherminator505: Is your screen name related to William Tecumsah Sherman? Although he was a good general who invented terrorism, he's known in these parts to be somewhat careless with fire. Very un-Scout-like!

No one could refute the argument that the LDS is being used as a whipping boy for the gay issue. Most Scout parents are on the same side as the LDS. Since the posters who feel that having gay scout leaders is a requirement for our eventual enlightenment (Is this somebody's WoodBadge ticket?) didn't want to attack a majority opinion, they went after the LDS. A few of us old farts didn't want to lend tacit approval to gratuitous LDS bashing, so we substituted ourselves as targets. Nobody changed their mind. End of topic. Old Farts vs. Young Flatulaters: Old Farts = 1

If BSA were to change policy and allow gay leaders, how many parents would pull their kids? I bet we'd lose more than the 15% represented by the LDS membership. At least in that respect, LDS is just verbalizing principals that many of our old-fuddy-duddy parents believe in.

Still waiting to hear of a BSA policy stand that the LDS forced BSA to take against our will...

"And things that other Christians might find offensive and divisive." What things? What policy has LDS forced on BSA that we don't like? Why are we discussing the undue influence of %15 of BSA membership in such an oblique way? What have they done that you won't name?

In what direction has the LDS taken the BSA that we didn't want to go? LDS seems to be saying out loud what many Christians, hobbled by PC, are quietly thinking. Just my opinion. JoeBob

Here a link to the official New Method: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/cubscouts/ppt/CubScoutsNewDeliveryMethodWebinarv3.ppt#292,30,Slide 30 Slide 30 lists the nomenclature. If you read the whole thing, the new method is focused on a higher retention rate. Do they really think boys will like being called 'A-Holes' ? Arrow of Light Scouts AolS Is my mind the only one in the gutter?

The presentation I saw used 'Arrow of Light Scout' to mean 5th graders. Do these power-points come solely from national?