JoeBob

If you picked six or eight core skills, and taught in depth courses for one or two skills each year at camporee, you could reach your target audience. Spreading out the courses would enable you to go into the depth of instruction and practice time you need to understand the whys and how's of the best way to do things. It would take a scouter three or four years to take all the classes, as it should. I'll suggest some core skills: Knife, axe, and saw. Camping, firestarting, and cooking. Hiking, backpacking, land navigation. Nature First aid Canoeing and rowing Pioneering, ropes and knots. What else?(This message has been edited by JoeBob) (This message has been edited by JoeBob)

Basement: I apologize for reading your typo literally: "scouter. Com is the only place that the gay rights folks can push their views on scooters." But Damn! It's too funny the way you wrote it! Any Shriners in the audience?

To whomever cleaned up my earlier pre-caffeine post: Thank you. I should know not to touch a dangerous keyboard before my third cup. JoeBob

When I took ITOLS recently, it was very similar to Desertrat's observation: "But if the newcomers think training is a bunch of crap, it doesn't matter what the trainers think. Word gets out and people stay away in droves." The trainers were having their time together. The pontification level was high. The learning level was low. How low? We touched a hatchet once, to pass it around a circle of seated trainees, saying "Thank-you" before releasing it to the next person. How good do you feel about setting those folks loose to teach your kids knife, axe, and saw skills at the troop level? The volunteer training coordinator is a good fellow. He wants to do well. But he's afraid to alienate the good old boys. Chain reaction: 1- Training is crap. 2- Word gets out and people stay away. 3- Training gets distilled to online lessons, to cover the BSA backside. 4- Skills deteriorate and knowledge base is diluted. 5- Outings and adventure drops off because leaders lack the skill to lead boys in the woods. 6- Adventure brand is diluted 7- BSA tries to become more like a computer game, because that's what they think will keep boys paying dues. Suggestion: BSA should quit trying to compete with screen time. Scouting should be the antithesis of screen time! Don't pretend to sneak up on someone in 'World of Warcraft'; do slink around the woods playing an actual game of capture the flag. BSA is not going into the wild as much as we need to in order to be the reality version of adventure. Outdoor Skills training for adults that can be passed on to our youth could start the revitalization.

Moose, You purport that I am misbehaving. What you really mean is that I Don't agree with you.

"To all Republicans in this thread.. Let me tell you that I am ashamed you consider yourself representives for scouting.." In what context can this be taken as other that an attack?

Moose, You no longer have any credibility. "So to date then we have No Republicans that will say that voter suppression is wrong, on the Thread.. Just 3 independents. Beavah, Sentenial and myself." You're going to have a hard time trying to find an example in this thread of myself, or any Republican in this thread, supporting the idea of voter fraud or voter suppression. Voter ID laws are aimed at protecting the integrity of the ballot box. Yet YOU seem oppose them. ACORN having a federally funded effort to register thousands of dead/fake voters hardly compares to one rogue employee at as single firm in Florida that the Republicans have filed charges against. "State Republican officials already have fired the vendor it had hired to register voters, and on Thursday took the additional step of filing an election fraud complaint against the company" http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VOTER_REGISTRATION_FLORIDA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-28-11-41-48 Any paid worker soliciting registrations is going to be tempted to up their pay. Requiring an ID to prove that you're who you claim to be negates that fraud. Real voter suppression is two Black Panthers with pipes standing in front of the voting place in Philly. Unless you're Eric Holder. The ad hominem grows wearisome: "To all Republicans in this thread.. Let me tell you that I am ashamed you consider yourself representives for scouting.." Guess what, we're ashamed of you, too. But at least we're making an effort to understand why your thinking remains so un-focused and blindered. "Oh look! A rabbit..."

Repulican Voter Fraud? Thanks for the link, Moose: "Strategic has a zero tolerance policy for breaking the law. Accordingly, once we learned of the irregularities in Palm Beach County, we were able to trace all questionable cards to one individual and immediately terminated our working relationship with the individual in question. Strategic is committed to following the letter of the law and will continue to cooperate with the Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections to ensure that this issue is resolved." This should prove beyond any doubt that voter ID laws are needed. 1- One bad employee (a Democratic activist?) tainted the registration pool, even though that worker was employed by the party that is trying to eliminate voter fraud! 2- ID required to cast your ballot cleans up the problem of phoney registrations. (Unless you get phony ID to match phoney registyrations... Nah - too much trouble for too few votes) ****** Have your thoughts about the Obama administration hiding their failed foreign policy by blaming a video changed at all? Now that many Democrats, like John Kerry, are starting to ask about the security damage caused by not enacting the 'terrorist protocol' after the attack? If CNN can find the ambassador's journal lying around in the ashes, do you wonder where the hard drives went?

Moose and Beavah, Simple question: If Obama was NOT trying to divert blame for attacks on our embassies to a video, why did he bring it up so often before the UN? *** Moose, if you spent less text trying to demean folks who don't think like you, you might be able to make a valid point and change some minds. These statements: "Only makes you guys look like fools" "To walk around in side the mind of a Republican is sometimes very difficult.." "Do I need to say more then he is a Republican?." only elicit applause from people who already think like you. So you accomplish nothing but cheerleading. As to dismissing arguments by claiming they have no support, please refer to the multiple news sources I've been linking to. Just for you, I avoided using Fox News.

Moose: Your Man at the Windmill: "That is what we saw play out the last two weeks, as a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world. I have made it clear that the United States government had nothing to do with this video, and I believe its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity" "We understand why people take offense to this video because millions of our citizens are among them." "I know there are some who ask why we dont just ban such a video" "There are no words that excuse the killing of innocents. There is no video that justifies an attack on an Embassy." Editted for brevity, not to twist the meaning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9565687/In-full-Barack-Obamas-speech-to-UN-General-Assembly.html Sure sounds like Obama is blaming the video, and not his foreign policy, for the death of Ambassador Stevens. CNN reported that Stevens said specifically mentioned the rise in Islamic extremism, the growing al-Qaeda presence in Libya, and said that he was on an al-Qaeda hit list, in his journal. But Obama isn't willing to admit that Kum Bah Yah as a foreign policy has failed, and wants to talk about a video before the UN. To argue that Obama didn't appologize before the UN totally misses the point, and is a typical subterfuge of someone who just lost an argument.

Moose, have some sugar to go with your Flavor Aid: "Unrest and demonstrations against US interests in the Arab world are because of a YouTube video." They did acknowlege that there was a hint that the Ambassy, looked like it was more.. But, they did not confirm it until analysts went in did a full investigation and reported back..) But, the start up demonstration was about the video, and the other protest throughout the middle east is about the video.. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/26/14105135-libyan-president-to-nbc-anti-islam-film-had-nothing-to-do-with-us-consulate-attack?lite The video had been out for six months. No riots. And not from Fox News. *** http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/26/u-s-officials-knew-libya-attacks-were-work-of-al-qaeda-affiliates.html So, we knew September 12th that it was terrorism, but this week Obama is apologizing for a naughty video while at the UN. Proud?

Josryan, Thanks for the link. I pulled a few tidbits: "Scouting involvement served a significant protective function for youth when compared to reported rates of abuse in other youth serving organizations, activities, and even within the family itself." "In 1980 BSA had approximately 1.1 million Scouting-involved adults registered. In that year, only 25 IV Files were created. This indicates that 0.002 percent or 2 per 100,000 of all registered Scouting involved adults in that year came to the attention of BSA because of alleged inappropriate sexual behavior with a child or adolescent. This suggests that youth were safer in Scouting than in society at large." (And those were allegations, not convictions.) 60% of the files contain public knowledge references, newspapers etc., so BSA was not trying to 'Cover up' or keep 'Secret Perversion Files.' Just because BSA didn't routinely publish false or unproven allegations does not mean that BSA was trying to hide unsavory acts from the public. People trying to make the IV files out to be a big deal, are trying to make a hot air ballon out of a condom. Makes you wonder what their real agenda is?

Packsaddle, I'm giving you moral support. Beavah, how do you feel about Obama's foreign policy expertise now? "Egypt is not an ally." Unrest and demonstrations against US interests in the Arab world are because of a YouTube video... Carney: "If the president visits one foreign leader (while they're in town at the UN) he'll have to vistit ten." So he went on 'The View' instead... Obama has a foreign policy? Somebody needs to tell Susan Rice. I am truly miffed with many of my conservative colleagues who are letting the abortion issue lead the agenda over a cliff. Abortion should not be a political issue. Smaller government should not include extra regulation of womens' health care decisions.

Brew, You're right. Our troop has different outlines, but we're still not good at orienting new parents/scouts. It's sorta like weaning puppies. But since every troop is a little different, I'm not sure that national compilation would really be able to help much. (Do they ever?) As Scout-Parent Coordinator, I'll keep watching this thread. (And who designed that butt-ugly shoulder patch?) http://www.meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Scoutparents_unitcoordinator.gif

NYC Schools: Students may have a Morning-After pill. Students may NOT have a 32 oz. soft drink.

"Could you say that louder for the camera, sir? We're making a video for YouTube about intolerant gay rights activists picking on young boys!" "Where do you work? Smile!"

Brew, Ask the MBC, in advance, how you can help him get the boys to meet the requirements, as written. Because they obviously can't do it in a 3-4 hour class.

"I had fun. Thanks!"

Natural camouflage is the best! Let the mold grow. Troop members embarassed at summer camp by an ugly trailer? Supply them the answer: "Our trailer is Green. Your's is ... Silver?"

Natural camouflage is the best! Let the mold grow. Troop members embarassed at summer camp by an ugly trailer? Supply them the answer: "Our trailer is Green. Your's is ... Silver?"

Natural camouflage is the best! Let the mold grow. Troop members embarassed at summer camp by an ugly trailer? Supply them the answer: "Our trailer is Green. Your's is ... Silver?"

Hey Fred, I appologize that this post may seem personal. I really do not mean to offend. But I am overwhelmed with curiousity about your motivation to argue for a ridiculously low standard. Why no standards?

P A R S I N G words. See: "That depends on what the meaning of 'is' is"...

92: I think you hit it: "Also our society has much lower expectations of youth these days." 'rismith', 'fred', 'johnponz' and to some degree 'click' are all vehemently arguing that we should not expect high achievements from our Eagle Scouts. "Eagle should NOT be respected that much more then all the other ranks." "no matter how high we prop the Eagle rank up, it is no more than a set of requirements" I salute and thank those of you who hold true to the old-time standards, for every rank. It is easy to lower expectations, but damn near impossible to raise them up again. When a boy attains BSA's highest rank, he should feel like he has really done something worthwhile, not passed an open book test. He should know that he EARNED Eagle through his hard work, diligent studies, and selfless service. He should not be proud of Eagle because he parsed the words found in the GTA on the internet (Inspired no doubt by discussions on Scouter.com?) and negotiated his way out of having to attend OUTINGS or being active. Being able to squirm around nuances will really help him contribute to society in his future... To those of you who argue for paper Eagles and Once and Done: Shame on you! Quit trying to bring us down to your level. Expect more from your young men. You will be impressed by what they can do.

Hey Guy, I would strongly urge you to set a high standard instead of a low precedent. Whatever you decide now will be used for even more excuses/aspirations down the road. I am bemused at some of our more verbose forum members who invest so much of their time arguing for the lowest common denominator. I don't understand the motivation. If you want to protect your boys from challenges, don't join scouting. Why try to bring scouting down to the level of book-club?