Its Me

I would react strongly to this. Even if things work out this SM has implanted a very harmful memory in these boys that they cann't lead. We can discuss this reason and that reason for why the SM did this, but if we look at the obvious reason it was to open up these positions for preferred boys and to disguise it as a Venturing opportunity.

I would call council with 20 questions on this matter. (the boys did this is that why he fired them? Can you be forced to join a crew? Should the SM have worked with the boys before he fired them? At the end of those 20 questions the council rep will liekly acknowledge that something is amiiss. Otherwise why have a local council?

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Wow as a Webelos leader I wouldn't plan a trip like that. That is way too big a distance for cubs and their families, There has to be plenty of camping within 4 hours of your north florida location to providing suitable sorroundings to teach Webelos the basics of outdoorsmanship.

Heck, you might be able to get to the Appalachian trail in a days drive. But even that seems grandious for 9-10 year old boys. We took seventeen, Webelos I camping a week ago in a county park some 15 miles from our charter organization. All these boys needed to have fun was a fallen tree to climb on, a stick to cook marshmellows and a fire to poke. Grand vistas are not required.

Funny, I thouht I wrote my "steelwool presenation" as a joke too. I thought is was so obvious that I didn't even need a .

I too think that Seattle Pioneer is right on target for what a quality program should look like. Where good outdoor skills developes good character and sound leadership.

Most schools can delivery the public speaking and leadership development through debate, drama yearbook, student council, sports and various other elements. I know back in the 80's when I was in high school we all had to take speech, work in groups and write reports. But it was done in a classroom not the outdoors and I really don't recall a class where I had to teach students two years my junior a skill.

Leadership is import but to think that the youth will only be exposed to leadership skills through scouting is a mistake. However, scouting very well could be the only place where the youth is taught outdoor skills.

The relevance of learning outdoors skills is on par with learning Latin? Jeesh!

First I agree that at times especially in the Webelos program the material looks like academic course work such as Latin. But we all know Latin can be FUN. Right! Its all in how you present it.

Second I think there is an old guard mind set that elevates the importance of any youth program such as scouting, or sports, or youth ministries in the child's development. Its just a component in the child's life. The mere fact the youth is involved in program is 80% of the battle. Get him out there doing tactile things, with like minded buddies and like a seed sprinkled with water he will grow.

Leadership, and the command and control structure should be secondary.

MollieDuke wrote:

"Shouldn't they get these basics down so they can survive and then lead others to do the same? When you're starting from nothing which do you choose?"

No you are wrong, you should teach them Power Point and how to type a meeting agenda first. Then assign them cool research projects like how steelwool was invented and have them present this material at a meeting with their newly learned power point skills. Do this with the lights low of course. Also teach them to sweep the audience with their eyes while talking. To tie this in with the outdoors get some of those cool inspirational posters that show people rowing together with the word "TEAMWORK" above it or my favorite a guy climbing a mountain with the word "ACHIEVE" above it.

These boys could be spending the rest of their lives at a desk doing reports and sitting in meetings, at 13 & 14 they need to acquire these meeting survival skills as soon as they can. They can go to the outdoors some other time when they have more free time.

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I will say yes, the program seems overly focused on leadership and less on skills.

At the turn of the century society needed fit, trainable and rugged boys who could be easily converted into soldiers for expanding empires. Hikes, minimalist backwoods cooking and patrols simulated an army on the move. The 1909-1940s societies of Britain, Germany and the US all had youth movements and wanted its boys/men to be prepared for protecting each countrys way of life and social economic structure. War loomed during the founding days of the scouting movement.

Now our societies ask for boys/men to be soldier of economic war. They must have the skills and drive to build corporate empires and to survive and function within. The BSA delivers what society wants. Society wants leaders. Leadership is presumed to equal financial success both for the individual and for his nation. The skills of public speaking, the skills detailed study and research are valued over pure outdoor skills such as knot tying, knife sharpening and animal tracking.

When you knock on a door and say "Its Me" they always let you in.

I know you trainers are just following the syllabus but I can I read a book on how to light a camp fire, set up a rain tarp or pick a backpacking stove. So if you are going ask for my physical presence for an 8 hour outdoor event you "should" make it as hands on as possible.

Don't spend 10 minutes on why you prefer wood matches and how you like to keep them in a water proof conatiner. Just pull it out of your pocket and, if I have one I won't think twice, if I don't, I will ask.

Here is some cheese to go with your whine.

Let us know how the training went.

You seemed to have walked into a trap.

To make the necessary changes you need clout, and right now you don't have any. A call to your District commissioner or district executive is a good start. Depending on how active the charter is, the CO is also source for clout. You need to demonstrate that you are a principal connection to all that is good in scouting. By bringing in leaders from the Charter organization and the district to reinforce that you are indeed implementing a scouting program you will gain clout. Right now they are managing you.

No you can't quit in mid year. Give it to the end of the year and if you can't turn it around by then, go ahead and quit but give at least a month notice.

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fleetfootedfox wrote:

"I appreciate all the free advice, but I wasn't really asking for that."

Uh?

fleetfootedfox started out with:

Spouse thinks scout leaders are geeks

Then:

In fact, there is a perception among some of these parents that the "smarter and more athletic boys quit Scouting around 5th grade".

And You finished with:

Maybe I should be writing this to Dear Abby instead

Of course we(the forum posters) will offer opinions and advice based on your intial post.

Unless you are wearing your uniform to dinner parties don't worry about your image. While in uniform and surrounded by eager youths, your image will be that of a carring dad and a community leader.

I have been involved in horse ridng clubs where you had to wear a white shirt, sport coat and 19th century tie in order to participate. But the group was extremely well-off and very geared toward proper manners and hospitality. A fine and wonderful group of well educated and well contected individuals.

I am a cyclist. I am in a local bicycle club that rides every Saturday. As is custom (and quasi-functional) in our sport we wear the most outrageous cycling clothes with Italian cement company logos and Belgium lottory ads wriiten all over the clothes. Great group and I would put any of their resting heart rates against a fashionable comfort bike rider.

The clothes don't make the man. If you were to see me away from my riding group in my 19th century riding clothes you would think "what a geek." Little would you know that I would be honoring a 300 year old sport and associating with some of the biggest movers and shakers in town. If you were to see me in my bicycling clothes away from my club and bike you think "what a geek." Little would know that I train 4-5 times a week and have the endurance to ride for hours without a break.

If you were to see me in my scout uniforma away from my unit you may think "what a geek." But little would you know of the adventures we take, the friendships we form, the responsibility we leaders have accepted and the commitment to the positive development of youths that we "geeks" have.

You can mock my silly clothes, but please don't mock the man in them.

Here is what I wrote her back.

Dear Junior's mom

Junior was a model scout who was a joy to have in our den. We enjoyed your whole family and the (xxx family) will surely be missed. I completely understand the desire to improve school performance. We will keep the door to returning to our den open. Should Junior want to return to scouting either as a Webelos or latter as a Boy Scout he will be most welcome.

Sincerely

Den Leader

She replied thank you and said she would pass this along to junior.

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I used to be a Bear, and a Good 'ol Bear too,

But now I'm finished Bearing, I don't know what to do.

I'm growing old and feeble and I can Bear (or Bare) no more

So I am going to work my ticket if I can

Back to Gilwell, happy land; I'm going to work my ticket if I can.

Bear Patrol

SR 676

What does a Bear do in the woods?

What ever it wants to.

FScouter wrote:

"It would be nice if they would tell the real reason they are quitting. Maybe that's too much to expect."

I would like to know too.

It could be they didn't like me or another family. They had been very good at coming to meetings and outings last year. I liked the dad, he was fun to have around, and the mom was nice too. Their boys are well behaved and easy to handle. Their younger boy will remain in our pack in a wolf den. Maybe 7 scouting activities a month are just too much.

This weekend one of my Webelos who I thought was one of my core scouts quit. His mom sent this email:

"Hi DEN LEADER - my husband and I have decided (with Junior) that he is not going to be participating in scouts this year. He is having a lot more school work and is already having a tough time keeping up with it. Thanks for your great work with the den and I'm sure we'll see you around at the pack meetings for Son 2 (who is a wolf and is staying in scouts). thanks - Junior's mothers"

I am crushed. After raising a stink in here about the Webelos porgram being too academic, I followed the boards advice and thought outside the box. I arranged for the fitness requirement to be given at a YMCA by their fitness director. We have ordered custom den t-shirts with the den's mascot chosen by the boys impprinted on it. I have planned a two night, Webelos campout complete with a written program for all three webelos dens in our pack.

This is the second boy who completed his bear rank with me to leave scouting. But the other scout was weak at attending, didn't like camping and his mother just had their third child.

Woodbadge

I that the personal development of youths its best done through the use of descreet suggestions rather than overt comands.

Ok technically I haven't finished the book yet so this is a review in progress.

I read the first 75 pages or so of the Baden-Powell writings what struck me was the sort of the creative fun he inspired in his leaders to take. His writings are more "Well this os what a scout should be taught and here is one way to teach it."

But the introduction by Elleke Boehmer, OMG! This is a total psychological analysis of Baden-Powell. According to her if he succeeded (the town siege in the Boer wars) it was luck. If he failed (getting into Cambridge) he lacked ambition and drive. If he tried to do his job as an officer by going on patrols he was a thrill seeker.

I fail to see why such an opinionated psychoanalysis belongs in this book.

The sort of macro analysis of Edwardian Britain was interesting. How the Boer wars shocked the British into believing that the empire was fading due to a slackened male profile. But the critical and demeaning way in which she handles Baden-Powell is strikingly meant to de-hero Baden-Powell. I had to double check to make sure her name wasnt Mrs Merlyn_LeRoy.

My pack is running a food booth at a Library festival. We plan to sell hotdogs, sodas and chips. The sale will last four hours (10:00 - 2:00). What is the best way to have ready-made hotdogs over and an extended period of time?

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If he is in a perpetual game of tag that is only interrupted by school, church and sleep, then he might be a cub scout

4-H is bigger than boy scouts? Is 4-H including the animals in their count?

I like the concept of building the car then immediately racing it. But there is not a lot a boy can do with a block of wood without adult assistance. Maybe have three-four ready made, roughed-in models for the boys to pick and glue things on. Other than painting, glueing and sanding there isn't a lot an 8-9 year old boy can do with a block of pine.

At the Mall of America they have lego races. Four big bins of legos with lego wheels are available for the boys to build a car and race it down a short track. Some cars run fast, some crash, others just fall apart going down the ramp. The kids have a great time.

I would still keep the actual pine wood derby in its present form but add an aditional build-n-race meeting.

Eamonn my friend, your post seems to wonder. Is it just another rant about dumb leaders not following the book or do you a have a more definitive position that you are trying to make?

I found a company in Switzerland that makes precision watches that was able to polish four new axles to our exacting standards. The wheels are being dynamically balanced in California. Sure we had to eat white rice for two weeks in order to cover the cost but we are talking district here. Maybe even council baby!

I have already scheduled a local showing and emailed my den on this movie.

The Webelos fitness program seems to focus on the bad behavoir within for example tobacco use, drugs, alcohol and overeating. Its more of a morality approach to fitness, "you are a sinner if...". I would rather have a more positive approach to fitness education.

Replace with:

Exercise will increase your heart rate which will improve your health because.....

Take your pulse at rest then play a game of soccer/basketball/tag for 20 minutes, then take your pulse. What changed? why?

Do push-up every other day for two weeks, Could you do more at the first time or last why?

The link below is as close as I could get to what i would include in the program. I was orginally looking for the requirments for 4th grade, Presidential and National fitness requiremnets but google failed me.

http://www.uen.org/core/core.do?courseNum=7540