Its Me

How does tying a knot as a Tenderfoot support the aims of scouting?

Wow! such great and useful replies.

Our summer camp is approximately 600 miles from our meeting house. There was another troop in our council going to the the same camp on the same week as our troop. One of our committee members contacted their SM and suggested we hire a bus. The other SM was all for this and the two troop sizes worked out great for a 50 seat bus. The cost came to about $115 per seat round trip. About twice the cost for personal vehical transportation. This got us a professional motorcoach that could hold all our gear (read no tariler) with a driver. Many on the committee were all for it. But our SM was completely opposed. Even though at the time we only had three drivers and were looking at renting a panel van. He came up with all sorts of reasons why a bus would be a bad idea.

First he said he wanted to stop and overnight at a special place. No problem the other troop was planning on the same stop.

Next he said at camp we may have to drive the boys to a meeting place. No, was the answer from summer camp director.

We may want to take the kids to town for laundry. Use the bus or use the laundry on site we told him.

Then he said he didn't want to be trapped at camp during the day. Your going to leave our boys?

Next he said he may need to take a kid to the hospital. Use an ambalance we suggested or find another scout troop leaders with car. These guys are typically a helpful bunch especially when a scout is in need.

Its cheaper. Ok but our kids will all be together and there is a bathroom on the bus.

Many thought that the bus experience would add to the overall experience. The SM thought otherwise.

What is your experience with hired buses for scout transportation?

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Quote:

I talked to another SM last night at an OA ceremony and he said his troop replaced one meeting night per month with the PLC meeting. Said it increased participation in the PLC and gave him 90 minutes for planning with no distractions. I might just suggest that to our SM.

That is exactly what I have proposed to our scoutmaster.

I know what the book says should occur. I have read Kudo's Court of Honor Patrol. I know what we did in Woodbadge.

But our PLC looked nothing like those. The PLC meeting is set to take place 30 minutes before the troop meeting, once a month. It took 15 minutes to track down all those believed to be on the PLC. Then the Scout master chided all the scouts for not having pencils. No meeting minutes were read let alone signed.

What happened next was that all the scouts were given a blank paper by the scout master and told to make a two column 4 row chart to create a set-up amd clean-up duty roster. All while this is occuring boys and parents kept entering and leaving the small room. After 20 minutes it was over. No votes, no reports, no opening, no closing.

Thanks Eagle Pete,

As of today this boy is still in scouting, a full 7 months after the incident and now five months into his parent's marital problems. The dad has moved out and filed for divorce.

No problems with this scout on the last few Boy Scout campouts. No problems prior to the knife incident either. He still may drop out but it won't be because of the incident. Even if he does by that time he will have had four years of cub scouts (10-12 campouts) and a year of boy scouts (7-8 campouts). Not bad to have under your belt.

Who knows he may eagle out in five years. That would make me especially happy.

The virus warning isn't coming up today. Someone at Scouter.com must of gone in and cleared it out.

It happens at work with mountains of fire walls and at home with open wifi.

Here is the message.

Message: Virus Detected

Date: 6/26/2007 9:37:02 AM

Pathname: Script executed by iexplore.exe

Detected as: Exploit-YIMCAM.gen

State: Script execution blocked

Since Sunday I keep getting a virus warning every time I log into scouter.com. Some nasty trojan thing. My virus software prompts me to remove it but the virus alert returns the next time I log in. And this is only occuring at this site.

Weeks before we joined an entire patrol left for another troop. The charter has a large pack and out of the ten webelos that crossed, only one went to our troop. There is no hiding that this troop lost somewhere around 50% of its scouts this past spring. A mom came up and said why would you join this troop, I would pull my son in an instant if my divorced husband would let me. It goes on. When I press for a root cause, all I get is that there was an ASM who wanted to take over the troop and he upset the whole apple cart.

Let me say again, this troop is my son's choice. And he is having great fun.

In March we joined the troop of my sons choosing. I would have preferred the one of the two others that were much better organized.

Now four months into this I am going nuts. My biggest issue is that the patrol method looks more like the den method. Advancement is weak. We only have one kid above first class and of the 22 boys in our troop only three are first class. Last month our senior patrol leaders eagled then aged out in the span of two weeks.

The campout plan was established be youths no longer in the troop. The last two campouts have been one night only with considerable driving distance +3 hrs one way last month and about the same for this month. The campouts have no written plan, no aspect of goals, training or elements to work on. Not even a schedule, at least no written one. The SM has one in his head but doesnt seem to want to share it with his ASM or the scouts or their parents.

Meetings start a half hour late. Departure times start 1-2 hours late. During troop meeting the SM leads, teaches or otherwise just seems to demonstrate his extreme Eagle skills. Youths are not given a chance to lead. Recently at a lashing demonstration that was given by the SM, two older scouts just stood next to him holding the ends of the rope. Jeesh, let the boys try and demonstrate if they fail all the better; they will be better prepared next time, screamed in my head.

BUT

From my boys perspective this is a great troop. We have a strong new scout patrol, with boys my son has known for many years. These boys enjoy each others company and break and reform into pairs and groups of three all the time. It just depends on who is present or interested in doing something different. My son is confident that he made the right decision. I do not share this opinion.

The other troops we looked at were not interested in keeping all seven of our boys together in a new scout patrol.

Its getting to the point that I don't want to be a part of the adult leadership as an ASM. Such disorganization at the leadership level is driving me nuts. I look at this as a Thursday night recess club.

You cann't save this scout quit trying.

The issue is not that mom is a princess. The root cause is that mom wants johnny to be a Prince. She wants him to reject all that is crude and uncivilized. Move on.

The committee person stepped over a line. They acted as a substitute Scoutmaster. Ideally the committee person should have taken his concern to the scoutmaster and allowed the SPL and the Scoutmaters to work out the issues. I cann't help but think that either the action of the SPL or the Committe person will cost this Troop a scout.

Your intial question was "how does one empower the SPL to make these decision?" Through the PLC

"How can this be balanced with knowledge that the boy does not have? By interactions with the Scout Master.

Funny how the committee person thought the SPL leader had over stepped his bounds when it would appear that the Committee person did so.

The old book really didn't mention military. It decribed three vocations, Mechanaical Engineering, Law and the Farm industry. These were example outlines for the scout master to understand and apply as he sees fit to other vocations. Fairly lofty goals for 1935. When the book references vocation it is the generic sense and should not be considered merely as labor or technical trade training.

Clearly the merit badge system is a vocational tool. Why else would there be a Denistry Merit badge? Its not even trail denistry.

Since I have a daughter entering high school and a son entering middle school one looks for opportunities to council his childern on career selection. I did what any good scouter does and looked to "The Handbook". However, I found a disconnection between the old and new books.

I will answer my own questions:

-Why would vocational guidance no longer be a Scout Master obligation?

I don't know.

-Would not this be an essential element in a boys-to-men program?

Absolutely, I cann't think of a better place where adult leadership can really draw out the interest of the boy. The ready made structure of the merit badge system, the merit badge councelors and long term exposure the boy has with adult guidence.

-Should it be part of the Scout Progarm?

Yes, And I like the structured approach of the old book. It just addresses the issue well, without going overboard.

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Lisabob so far Boy Scout has been exceeding his and my expectations. The troop, although not perfect, is a very good match for my boy and the rest of my webelos.

I have a Scout Masters Hand Book from 1932. In Chapter XI of this book it explains that vocational counciling is an essential responsibility of the Scout Master.

"The Scout Master is urged to keep notes on his vocational conferences with the scout."

"The Scout Master should mobilize the best men in his community to act as vocational advisors to the boys"

The 1932 book goes on for several pages on the proper approach the Scout Master is to use to draw out the boys interests and aide the scout in deciding his vocational opportunities. This book ties in how the Merit Badge system can be used to assist the boy in chosing his vocation.

The current Scout Master Handbook does not list the word vocation in the index. Nor can one find career, job or employment in the index. A review of the current handbook has no reference to the Scout Master assiting the scout in vocational selection.

Why would vocational guidance no longer be a Scout Master obligation?

Would not this be an essential element in a boys-to-men program?

Should it be part of the Scout Progarm?

Just to let all know, our Scout Master really stepped up and clarified that Scouts need to be with their buddies in their patrols. That the patrol method depends on patrol bonding. That Webelos are welcome with prior approval but cubs and other siblings should be considered as detractors from the Troop's program.

I am just paraphrasing and doing a bad job at that, but he really split the hairs by saying this is how it will be going forward without saying it is a violation of Troop policy.

A velvet fist would be a good description.

Longhaul

You seem perfectly happy to accept this sleeping arrangement. To you it doesn't matter. There is no difference. The same scout pops out at the cycle's end.

Which program better accomplishes the aims of scouting? Why?

A) Boys age 11-17 sleep with their peers in their tents.

B) Boys age 11-17 sleep with their mom or dad and maybe a cub scout brother.

C) There is no difference.

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I am new the troop as we joined some five weeks ago. I am the ASM for the New Scout Patrol. The dad is a committe member.

There were enough tents as the pratol in question had an unused two man tent. Plus one tent was large enough for four tenderfoots.

Longhaul the issue is that the patrol method is not being used.

The problem is this has been occuring for a long time. On our previous campout another family had the same situation. Even Cubs are allowed to come on campouts. I checked the SM handbook and could not find where Cubs are prohibited.

I like the idea of having an adult patrol. The SM is and Eagle scout from this exact Troop. When I discussed how I want to bring the NSP up to speed with patrol flags, calls and camping as an indepdent patrol he is all for it. He encourages me and gives me copies of his boy scout manual from 1978.

What I don't understand is how he got to where he is at. He knows how the patrol method works. He has deccribed how he took his patrol on hikes and outings without an adult when he was patrol leader.

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At our recent campout we were told by a dad that his sons were going to sleep with him in their family tent. The youngest boy is the patrol leader for one of the patrols. So his patrol buddies pitched two tents next to each other and six boys piled into two tents. Their Patrol Leader slept with his dad and brother some seven tents away.

To compound this, the family's oldest boy took over for the senior patrol leader when the SPL left to attend his senior prom. Thus, we had our senior patrol leader and a patrol leader sleeping in their family tent with dad.

What is wrong with this?

What should be done?

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I congratulate on going after a ceremony. At my son's cross over it was very dissapointing. The CM didn't annnounce what was happening. He had all the kids line up on one side and the two SM on the other. Then cubs walked a plank on milk crates. The audience was in a state of "huh?"

Make sure the CM explains what is occuring. Many in the audience won't have a clue what is happening. A sense of omp and circumstance will help too.

">>Ok, there I have said it. I am crossing the Atlantic in a canoe.

Ok, there I have said it. I am crossing the Atlantic in a canoe.

So I have discussed this with the SM, informed the scouts and their families and set this up with the troop guide. All are in favor of this.

Given that we are emaberking on this, how can I make this work as well as possible?

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I coach youth soccer in addition to being a scout leader.

In soccer there are two programs recreational and competitive. In the recreational program the players all get equal time. Coaches are free to set up their team as they wish but we are instructed to make sure the kids have fun so if a kid who routinely plays midfielder wants to play a forward you let him. Any one player can only be goalie for a half a game. The emphasis is on fun and rotating the players through all the positions.

In competitive soccer the kids try out. Under developed players are left for the rec coaches to develop. The coach does not worry about getting all players equal time. The parents know this and do not push the coach on this issue. The coach is expected to develop the most competitive and winning team he can. Goalies only are set, they go to goalie specific training and a team may only have one real goalie. In fact the teams players are set, so a new kid would have to try out for a specific position such as a back, mid and forwards. I am sure baseball teams are the same way.

As a rec coach I always wondered how much more I could develop the 1/3 of the kids with talent. Bench the weak leg ones. Play the same forward line all year. Team work among a few would improve. But I would lose 1/2 my team and have angry parents if I did not play the all the kids.

The analogy is this; Kudu is running a more competitive program. The scouts he has in his program are likely responding to the faster paced training. He can do more and get better results because he has set his program so that not all parents expect their kids to get equal time in all positions. The BSA program is set up more as a rec program. It is designed not to develop kids in as much as to keep parents and kids happy. There is room for both programs. Are league has both rec and competitive teams.

Well as many of you that follow these forums will recall, I had a Webelos II kid in my den pull out a knife and brandish it in a threatening way on other kids. This happened in December We had a conference with his parents and the kid was compelled to write a letter. I confiscated the kid's knife with the promise to return it at cross over. We crossed over Saturday and I returned the knife. Things are hunky dory.

Of course we all analyzed this and thought that there might be bigger issues. We were right. Three weeks ago, the mom told me that the dad wanted to separate. Last week he moved out. The guy is leaving a wife with three kids 13, 12 & 11. Talk about walking out just as the going gets tough.

In my own psycho-babble, it would appear that the dad had become distant and the kid was acting out in a way to get his dad's attention. I liked the dad, he was an ex paratrooper and was always nice to be around. His boy is more like his mother in looks and tends to be more of the -artsy crafty type. The boy had come along way in my den from being afraid of night hikes as a Bear to playing man hunt in the pitch black a Webelos II. I doubt that the boy will stay in scouts. I think he was doing this to please his father. But this kid has surprised me before both good and bad.