gwd-scouter

I'm going to chime in here again. It is wonderful that so many of you have had good experience with your Webelos and Boy Scout Troops. When I posted earlier I said "from my experience" the 4th graders were not ready. I was a Webelos Den Leader years ago and the Troop that had the same CO as our Pack just expected the Webs to crossover to them. I didn't know there was any other way to do it, so I tried to set up dates for joint campouts. The Troop did not want the Webelos along until the fall of their 5th grade year. Then, the Webs were not given a program planned more toward them but were expected to just jump in to the patrols and act like the rest of the older Boy Scouts. Not a very fun experience for the Webs. It pretty much has always been that way between that Troop and Pack. I am now SM of a small Troop and trying hard to increase our numbers. Have worked this past year helping a Cub Pack get on its feet and just last week we were happy to take 2 Web IIs on their first camping trip EVER! Yes, way too late I know, but there were Den Leader issues involved (to be posted in another thread later). I will continue working to build a good relationship between our Troop and the Pack and hopefully when the Pack starts up again at the end of summer we will be able to supply them with a couple of Den Chiefs and get any Webs they have camping earlier with us.

Yes, our Council (Blue Ridge, South Carolina) does this too. It is called Gold Star Unit. Units must meet criteria each year at recharter and then all rank badges are free. Requirements are: recharter on time, recharter with at least one more youth than year before, hold a Family Friends of Scouting meeting for the Troop and participate in popcorn sales, and conduct Scouting for Food drive or other service project.

Back from the Council Exporee. Over 2500 Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts and leaders in attedance. The weather Gods were smiling on us. Thunderstorms rolled in Friday afternoon as the troops were arriving but ended by 7:00. Saturday was fantastic, sunny and in the 80s. A brief thunderstorm Saturday evening around dinner time and thoughts of the evening's assembly and show being cancelled. But, our local news channel's chief meteorologist was on hand to tell us no rain for the remainder of the evening. He was right! Great evening. Bit of rain in the early morning Sunday. Woke to cloudy skies and fairly brisk wind (which dried the tents nicely). Packed up and just as we were leaving the temperature started dropping and the rains came. Great time had by all!

I would follow the G2SS which says nothing about the grade of the Webelos Den. F rom my own experience, however, 5th grade Webs II are usually more experienced and have a better time interacting with Troop members when camping. The 4th grade Webs I are still learning how to do just about anything for themselves and it can be a bit overwhelming to be in a group of older more experienced Boy Scouts. Not much fun for the Boy Scouts either! So, while I wouldn't say that 4th graders CAN'T join a Troop campout, I would suggest that the Webs I concentrate on learning some skills on their own den and pack campouts and then let them look forward to camping with the Boy Scouts in the 5th grade year.

John, My son has taught weather MB at camp for a couple of years. I'll check with him and get back to you if he has any plans/materials. KB

Reading the last paragraph of the article: I think it is a raw deal. It stems back to the fact that they have been on top of us for years. For this to come up and for them to take our charter away is unbelievable, and I am still not sure what they are charging us with. There will be about 60 boys thrown out of scouting because of this, Geissinger said. Wonder what "they've" been on top of them about for?

We are heading off tomorrow for our Council Exporee. All Boys/Cubs from upstate SC can attend. Big time event held once every four years. Oh my, weather forcast says thunderstorms all day tomorrow, continuing through the night, scattered thunderstorms on Saturday, and cold (well, 60s) and rainy on Sunday. All those Scouts/Scouters moving around and camped in a gigantic field in the rain? Sounds like a muddy mess to me. Can't wait - bring it on! SR540Beaver - "boys in tin foil hats holding an extended fork in one hand and a spoon in the other while standing on an open hill during a thunderstorm" would definately lead to an exciting weekend. Think we will just stick with the planned activities instead. (LOL)

Oh goody, I'll play Red door is fine, but the ONLY choice for camp buildings is green building/brown roof (even though it is not specifically written down anywhere, or in BOLD). I cannot even begin to imagine the anarchy that would ensue if the colors were reversed. OK, my afternoon fun is over.

Water balloons - that brings up another subject. When I was Cub Scout Resident Camp Director, the theme one year was Knights of the Roundtable. We had a gigantic water balloon catapault for the Saturday field day activities. BIG problem with all the bits and pieces of balloons all over the meadow at the end. Not exactly living up to the leave no trace principles on that one! And, there was only 24 hours between when cub resident camp was over (noon Saturday) and boy scout summer camps began (noon Sunday). Fun for the Cubs, no fun for the staff. Live and learn!

Whoo-boy I just love this Forum! Never even occurred to me that someone would wonder about a squirt gun and the BSA policies. I've heard so much about the BSA stance on shooting at a living or representation of a living target. Can someone show me exactly where that is written? Because, if there is an explicit written policy about not pointing/shooting a firearm (or any kind of projectile) at a living target, then I guess we should do away with squirt guns too. Whew, maybe this needs to be in the politics forum! :-)

Hey STM99 and welcome to the Forum! This question has been talked about in many threads. I had the same situation and questions when I first became SM and was dealing with a Troop history of PORs not actually being done but scouts getting credit. First, no, there is no National written definitation about what active means and what serve in a position of responsibility, meaning there is no defined percentage of time, etc. There are many troops out there that have by-laws that scouts sign (like yours) that say you must attend 50% or 60% (whatever) of meetings and outings. This, of course, is a troop policy, not a National policy, and some will say it is adding to the requirements (also talked about at length in other threads). In essence, unfortunately, unless you removed the Scout in question from his POR before the six months was up, he gets credit. I don't agree with that and many on this forum don't either, but that's pretty much the way I understand it. In our Troop's history, all the guys were given credit for their POR whether they did anything or not. We use TroopMaster and it will count the dates from the time you enter a Scout's POR. Then, magically, 182 days later they get credit for time served. I can only share with you what I have done over the past year and a half in our Troop to change that culture. Every month, I meet briefly with those guys that have PORs. If they were showing up and doing their jobs, they got a big "atta boy" and encouragement to continue. For those guys that are not attending meetings or outings, a warning that their POR would not count toward their next rank unless I saw improvement over the next month. I pretty much laid it on the line for them. We read the requirement together. I told them that serving in a position of responsibility for six months meant BEING at scout meetings, GOING on outings, DOING the job requirements. I did not give them a percentage. The end result of this drastic turn around in our troop's culture: 2 guys that have been sitting on Life rank 2003 stepped up to leadership, did it VERY well, and this year made Eagle. Still have 2 more Scouts that have been sitting at Life rank since 2003 because they will not serve 6 months in a POR. Oh yeah, they get elected to something, but then we never see them again or only sporadically. And yes, they know that I am NOT the same Scoutmasters they've had. The result, their job is removed and someone else is put in their place. They will just have to try again. These ideas by the way were given to me by reading the advice of some very experienced Scouters on this Forum. Oh, before anyone gets on my case about removing a Scout from his POR and not letting the SPL, ASPL or patrol members do it - we're just not there yet. We are only a year and half into these guys actually KNOWING they are actually supposed to DO their jobs and that the patrols/scouts can elect to "fire" their PL/SPL and elect someone else. Still have to have a lot of SM oversight, but I'm stepping back more and more each month. Admittedly, this change in our Troop's culture was met with a lot of resistance. It's been a slow bumpy road this past year and a half, but oh how I do love to see the progress we're making! SMT99, good luck to you. You will probably lose the fight over this one Scout. But maybe you can help change the culture in your Troop and raise the bar of expectations without arbitrary percentages for attendance.

We've experienced both types of new Scouts the past year. Last year, we got one new Scout about 3 weeks before we left for summer camp. That was his first experience with the Troop and he's still with us going strong. Last March we got two new 11 year-olds. Their first trip with us was our April backpack trip. A bit strenuous for one of the lads, but the other loved every minute of it. Both complained about how cold it was at night (high 20s in the mountains). But, both are eager for this weekend's Council Exporee, signed up for summer camp pathfinder program (for new Scouts), and seem to be enjoying themselves with the Troop. This weekend, we are taking two Webelos to the Council Exporee. These guys will be crossing over to our Troop in a couple of weeks. I'm a little nervous taking these guys since I haven't even met them. Their Webelos leader is somewhat the type described by EagleDad and has been ready to give up her den and have these boys get into Boy Scouts for over a year. They have very little camping experience, so our PL will have his work cut out for him this weekend. Like EagleDad, I would prefer to get our new Scouts all at once rather than the dribs and drabs we've been getting. But, being such a small Troop and trying hard to increase our numbers, we'll take them any time of the year.

SR540 is correct about the weather here in the Southern Region! One year we were getting ready for our cold weather camping trip in February. Weather here in upstate South Carolina in February is typically cold, wet and windy. So, we got the guys prepared by spending several weeks before camp to go over all the necessary cold camping skills. The weekends leading up to the trip had temps of the mid 30s daytime and low 20s nighttime. Then, the big weekend came - it was in the high 70s during the day and mid 40s at night. Not exactly cold weather camping!

Our Council (Blue Ridge) has had a Cub/Webelos Resident Camp since 1994 - at least that's the first I went to with older son and thought I heard it was the first ever for the Council. A few years later, starting in 1999, I became resident camp director for the next 5 years. With summer camp Boy Scout staff on hand and a handful of volunteer adults, we put on quite a show for the lads. Scouts were put into dens based on age/grade in the fall. We had 2 programs running simultaneously - a cub program and a webelos program - and did all the activities throughout camp appropriate for their rank (BBs, archery, rowing/canoeing, swimming, nature, crafts, knots/lashings, fire building, knife safety, games and athetics, swimming, etc.). Webelos even left camp for one night and hiked a mile to a remote camp for an overnighter. Like msnowman said, the best part I think was that the boys that attended Cub Resident Camp learned all about Camp Old Indian and it was like home when they finally arrived for a full week as Boy Scouts.

Guess since I started this I ought to chime in. I travel about 5 miles each way to Roundtable. It is attended by the usual crowd. Many Packs and Troops are not represented. I think this is a universal problem and necessarily due to travel distance.

John, I have always liked the idea of making our own neckerchiefs. Did you use a large square? How were the edges stiched? Can you remember back that far?? :-) We have Troop Ts and hats that are kelly green and yellow. Green neckerchief with yellow binding would look very nice.

This topic reminds me of my sons' visits to their pediatrician. With each yearly checkup the Doctor would ask them a bunch of different questions: what do you like to read, what is your favorite subject in school, do you do chores at home. Yep, that's right. He asks them both if they do chores at home. Over the years my sons have had varying responses to that question. Clean their room, yes. Clean their bathroom, yes. Help with dishes, yes. Feed the dog and clean water bowl, yes. Cut the lawn and help weed the gardens, yes. Clean out the garage, yes. Laundry, yes. Wash the kitchen floor and hallway, yes. Did they do a good job? Nope. Did they do the jobs willingly? Nope. Did I at their ages? Nope. My sons have always been very busy people (as some of you folks have posted) with school, homework, after-school clubs, scouts, band, sports. I also firmly believe that our children need time to just hang out and do nothing. But, a household is a family and each member has to do his/her part to maintain that household. I don't know if it has been a result of doing chores, our influence as parents, or being scouts, or something else, but both of my sons are usually the last guys to leave an activity because they are helping someone with something. I am proud of them both for their desire and willingness to help others. By the way, I do like Beavah's use of the word "service" rather than "chores." Service to one's family. That's nice. Maybe I'll start using that. Think my guys will do their "service" at home more cheerfully?

Congratulations to you Eamonn and especially to OJ. Those long-term Lifers and 11th hour Eagles sure do leave us breathless don't they?

Kittle, YIKES! You had your five year old right beside you while you were running the archery range? Don't have the literature in front of me and maybe there is nothing specific in the GTSS about it, but I can't see how you could possibly give 100% attention to the Scouts on the range while having to keep 100% attention on your 5-year-old as well. Now, back to the topic. We have 2 camporees a year - fall and spring. Only registered Boy Scouts and provisional campers are allowed at the Fall Camporee; the Spring Camporee is designed for Boys and Cubs, but again - only registered and provisionals. A number of years ago we did not have this policy, with the result being that the camporees became more and more a family camping event rather than a real Scouting event, at least for the Troops. Little kids running around, mostly unsupervised. The result was less and less participation from Troops. When I was a Cub leader all of our outings were for everyone. Bring the whole family. So, I thought it rather snobbish of the Boy Scout leaders to be so rigid about not allowing Cubs to the Fall Camporee let alone siblings. But, now I'm in the Boy Scout Leader role and I can see their point of view. There is a time and place for family outings. Yes, sometimes something beyond our control will come up and a sibling will have to come along. But, hopefully that is a rare occurrence and not an ongoing scenario.

Since 2001, our Council (Blue Ridge) has sponsored Cub/Parent weekends at Camp Old Indian each weekend in October and November. These are one-night events that offer BBs, archery, canoeing, nature - the usual activities - plus meals in the dining hall. The weekends are very successful in our Council. One difference though is that you must be a registered Cubscout to attend with your parent/guardian.

I've seen Chief Neckerchief and Stradri's advertised in Scouter Magazine. Has anyone used either of these companies for custom neckerchiefs? If so, were you satisfied with the product? Do any of you know of other companies that make custom neckerchiefs?

The magic of Scouting! Yes, I've felt it. I felt it early on in the Cub years. Started in 1st grade Tigers with older son. Continued serving a dual role in Cubs/Boys with older son in Boy Scouts and younger son just starting Cubs. That's when Scouting began to lose its magic for me. I was Cubmaster for younger son's Pack, Advancement Chair for older son's Troop, District Training Chair, Cub Resident Camp Director and, like many others, felt that if I gave up something the Scouting World around me would come crashing down. What hubris! Now, settling into my role as SM and leaving all other leadership duties to others, I get to feel the magic again. Oh yes, I've had ups and downs along the way. But the downs just make the ups that much more....magic. At last week's meeting, I saw a Scout who has never really shown much enthusiasm participate in the Troop's tent pitching competition. He grudingly began to participate. He saw that the Patrol Leader was having trouble with one of our new and more defiant Scouts. He took the defiant one aside and said, "Let's get this tent put up." Somehow, trying to get the new Scout to work with him gave the older Scout a sense of leadership. He came alive. "Let's go," he shouted, "we have to get ours up before those other guys." When he and new Scout succeeded, he yelled, "Yeah, that's what I'm talking' about!" High fives between them, gloating ensued. A bonding moment. He noticed some of the tents were missing parts. He asked if he should get the other tents out of the back of my car and set them up too in case they had missing parts. This led to another Scout getting paper and all the Scouts taking inventory of the tents. Then, they got the great idea of rather than having a bunch of tents each with some piece missing, they would sort of strip mine a few to make more complete sets and write down what was needed to complete the remaining tents. Never a word from me. Now, that's magic!

New Forum Member, Moxieman, posts that some of the leaders in his district travel 2 hours to roundtable. We can't even get folks from only a couple of miles away to attend ours regularly. How far do you and other leaders in your district travel?

Welcome Moxieman! Where abouts in the Maine Wilderness are you from? My oldest brother and his family moved last year to Haynesville. I'm planning to visit this summer.

I don't usually post in the politics section, but this topic hits a nerve. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants. The American Culture is made up of all those wonderful and diverse people who came here before us. But, not so long ago those immigrants tried to assimilate as soon as they could. They learned English and tried to fit into American Society. Yes, they kept their heritage. But, they worked hard to become citizens - LEGAL citizens. They were proud to be Americans. Americans first - not hyphenated Americans. What happened since then? Now, in certain parts of the country, an English-only speaking person can feel lost. I don't think we will ever establish a national language. I do sometimes feel we should, however, when I walk into a local establishment and can't be understood by the clerk because I speak English and he/she doesn't. And, a bit off topic, I don't think the immigration rallies going on around the country are doing much for the cause when the protestors carry the American flag upside down or carry the Mexican flag. The National Anthem in Spanish. What is the purpose? To make Spanish speaking people in the United States feel more American because they can sing the song? Somehow, this just seems out of tune to me.