Gold Winger

"What I'm proud of? You'll notice we're offering courses entirely in Spanish. " Do you offer them in German, Hungarian, Mandarin, or Swedish?

I've been involved with various volunteer organizations for about 30 years. Unless, the organization has a program set up to foster new volunteers, finding new volunteers is difficult. One problem that Scouting has in common with other youth activities that many of the volunteers are just counting the days until their child leaves the program so that they can get out. They are quick to complain when something doesn't happen but they don't realize that events take place because a bunch of volunteers have put them together. For volunteer organizations in general, the problem is complex. Often new volunteers are rebuffed, "No, we got it covered." Other times, the old-timer who has been running the event is hostile to newcomers. Heaven help the new guy who offers a new idea, "I've been doing this for 20 years and we never had tea on the coffee bar! We don't need it now!" Something else that happens is that a old-timer who always did everything himself will suddenly quit, usually because of burn out. There was no assistant or staff to pick up the job so it falls to the hapless new guy. Now the new guy is floundering because there was no turn-over file, no contact phone numbers, nothing but the vague handwaving of people who had been to the event. So the new guy comes up with his own ideas only to be greeted with "John never did it this way!"

"Shoehorn units in? If we are all running the same program (and we had better be) then there isn't any shoehorning." I guess you've never been in a commissioners meeting where folks were trying to fudge numbers to make sure that QU gets met.

Many, many years ago, when Bobcat was recognized with a round pin, the tradition was that it was pinned on upside down until you did your first good deed. I did something like opening the door for my mother and flipped it around. Is it in the program? No. Does it cause harm? Nah. The boy has his badge, what's wrong with a little encouragement to do something nice.

A few years back, a girl scout unit came to a Camporee and kicked butt. It seems that they figured that they were going up against the cream of the crop, after all the competition was BOY SCOUTS so they practiced and trained. Boy were they surprised. Rumor was they weren't invited back. :-( Of course, they probably broke about 5,000 GSUSA rules by being there because the men weren't sleeping in the next county and I'm sure that the farm that was being used didn't have GSUSA approved insurance. One would think that young men would welcome an occasional opportunity to interact with young women. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. I knew a Venturing advisor whose crew was all girls. They futilely searched for an all boy crew who wanted to go on joint activities like hiking or canoeing or rock climbing. Never happened. Personally, I think that the boys would benefit from interacting every now and then with the distaff side of Scouting. I just wouldn't want to see it mandated.

Dry cleaned or laundered? I get my cotton shirt laundered with heavy starch and a military press. My oldest shirt is nearly 10 years old and still holding up well. Even though the poly-wool shirt is washer safe, I have it dry-cleaned.

Do your best? That's an interesting idea. On the conservative side, I'd say that most are well intentioned but less than half "do their best." The SM that I met at summer camp who wasn't coming back to that camp because "the boys had too much fun." Yep, too much fun. "Summer camp is not to have fun but to work on merit badges and this camp doesn't offer enough Eagle required badges." The SMs that appoint the SPL and/or PLs. The parents that insist on packing their sons' packs. The Scouters who say, "We have to run these boys through x,y, or z so they can be Tenderfoot before school's out." The Scouters who say, "What do the rules matter, the kids are supposed to be having a good time." The Cub Scouters who hand out the AOL, earned or not, just so "Johnny won't feel bad." The District Chair who used to position to arm-twist the Eagle Board into passing her son. He's the one who told me this and at age 25 he still doesn't feel that he earned his Eagle.

"Quality Unit does indeed mean something." Not really. Not when the DE is pressuring the commishes to shoehorn units into QU status so the district can get QD and the council pressures the districts so it can get QC. It really has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with numbers. How many advance, how many retained. Nothing to do with the actualy quality of the program.

Maybe it just isn't important to the Scout. There was an Eagle Scout from my son's troop who earned his Eagle right before he left for college. He didn't have his COH until the following fall. So time really isn't a factor.

The really cool ones do! Lots of chromes, blinking lights and hubcaps. :-)

That all sounds good but we are hearing only one side of the story. There are usually two, sometimes three. Maybe the troop leaders believe that four adults are required. Maybe they have previous experience that leads them to believe that having four adults is a good thing.

Wearing a bell? http://www.nps.gov/aplic/fieldtrip/bear_safety.html Packsaddle, sounds like you've done some off trail exploring.

" (you shouldn't go in a group of more than 4)," Never understood that. When I ask the experts, I get a lot of hand waving about "reducing impact" but no one can explain how five groups of four leave any fewer footprints than one group of 20.

Actually, eight separate paths would be better. The brush has a better chance to recover. "until you really hate (and I mean loath) when people have the gall to cut down trees to make paths so that they can walk unhindered through the forest with their little backpacks on...." And people have the gall to call me undiplomatic. What a way to alienate the folks who you are asking for advice.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

You're right about the get from A to B as quickly as possible ideas. That is very prevalent in our society in general. I used to belong to a large car club that frequently had "tours" in which we'd head off on a pre-determined route through the countryside or mountains. Cars would start separated by a couple minutes so they wouldn't bunch up. After my first one, I elected to take the tail end Charlie position. Granted we had sports cars but everyone was hell bent for leather to get to the end point as quickly as possible. No one noticed the old barns, the cows, or the little purple flowers. I'm with you. I like to take my time. Look at the trees. Stop to look at a spider web. Etc. As for doing things like climbing on logs. You're young and invincible. I was once young and invincible. If I was by myself or with a group of peers, I might still do something like that. The difference is that now I'm usually not with a group of peers. I'm supposed to be the responsible adult which means that I'm not supposed to let the youth go do dangerous things without safety precautions. Imagine this. You're off with your youngsters and you come across an old long that is 20 feet above a rocky creekbed. You think "Hey, we can do this!" So you and your charges scurry across but the last one slips and falls the 20 feet, dashes his head on a rock and is bleeding profusely. He survives but is severely impaired. Now you find yourself in a witness chair trying to explain why you didn't forsee the possible outcome of walking across a rotting log.

"Wait. 1200 U.S dollars for an 80 mile hike. people actually pay money to do that!?I mean wait. sounds like fundo it all the time lol what exactly is Philmont?" Philmont Scout Ranch is a large (over 200 sq. miles) Scout facility in the Sangre de Christos mountains in northern New Mexico. Very lucky Scouts and Scouters get to go there for what is one of ultimate Scouting experiences. I say lucky because getting a slot for crew is based on a lottery. I went last summer with a group from son's troop. Base camp is at 6,000 feet, we spent 10 days in the back country, covered 80 miles, most of it over 10,000 feet and made it up to 12,400 feet. For most in Scouting, it is a once in a life time experience. Each of the 12 members of the crew ponied up $1,200 to cover Philmont fees, transportation, lodging along the way, meals, visits to musuems. I did get a few hundred back after the trek but I figure that I had already spent that on souveniers. So yep, $1,200. To get ready for trek we did a monthly training weekend hike, covering between fifteen and twenty miles. The cost for those was about $15 each for food. The best thing about a Philmont trek from a Scouting perspective is that if the adults are doing their job, they don't have much to do. A youth is the Crew Chief and he makes the decisions. The adults are there as advisors and to make sure that no one dies. If the boys want to sleep until noon, we sleep. If the boys make a wrong turn, we get lost. A great learning experience. Was it worth the $2,000 that I had to pay for my son and me? Yes. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. Could I afford it? Not in my current employment situation. Compare it to what people pay to go on cruises or to the Dominican Republic for Spring Break. The difference is that anyone can do those.

Just because I can, doesn't mean that I should.

"wouldnt you love to spend $500 dollars so that you can kill yourself hiking 20 miles up a mountain!)." LOL! That sounds like Philmont, only it was $1200 and 80 miles. However, I do get your point. Sometimes, the very experienced crowd forgets that they were novices. I've also noticed that groups that don't make an effort to include novices and bring them up to speed often dwindle. Silly question, have to spoken with the "outdoor club" and asked if they plan on running any training sessions for novices. Maybe they don't because no one has asked. I pretty much concur with Annie except that I find town hikes to be boring. If you substitute county park hike for town hike, we're good. You can head off down the three mile loop at a park with nothing more than a bottle of water and a glance at the map.

" I suppose they could have the dads cool their heels in base camp instead of going on the trek, but that's a bit much to ask." Not allowed to do that. Until the end of the season, tent city is so tightly scheduled that you can't stay in your tent even an extra hour. BTW, why do you need two adults per vehicle? That's not required by BSA.

For that matter, there is really no need to have parents hang around during a Boy Scout meeting or a den meeting.

In some states it is a simple administrative procedure to get an affinity plate issued. Get a list of prospective people, submit a design and wait for approval from the DMV. Other states, it has to go through the legistlature. What amazes me is the commerciality (is that a word?) of some of the plates. I understand alumni association plates, Boy Scout, Girl Scouts, VFW, Rotary, Lions, even Nuke a Gay Whale for Jesus. The really strange ones are NASCAR plates and NFL team plates. I'm pretty sure that neither NASCAR nor NFL are allowing their logos to be used without some sort of licensing fee.

" hiking in the rain is NOT fun" Sure it is. You just have to be prepared for it. I wouldn't worry too much about the psycology aspects of the whole exercise. If the kids know each other and aren't likely to try to kill each other on the trail, I wouldn't think that you'd have any problems.

If I was in your shoes and knowing what I know now, I'd go on a hike that was almost too easy. Find a place with an improved trail, the type that you find in county parks with no rocks and little signs to tell you what the trees are. Do the hike without the kids so you'd know what to be looking for. Get a map of the trail so you can have the kid orient it and locate themselves based on landmarks. It's a great feeling of accomplishment when you can look at a map and say, "We're here." If the trail is good and the weather is decent and there are no streams to ford, they can get by with jeans and sneakers. A sweatshirt or sweater with a rainjacket is good enough for anything above the 40s. When I started hiking, I was surprised at how quickly I needed to shed my sweater even when the temps were in the 40s. Of course, when you stop to take a break, everyone needs to put on something warm. In that daypack, everyone needs to take basic first aid, including duct tape to stop incipient blisters. Other than that, you need band-aids, sun screen, tylenol, and lip balm. Other stuff in the pack would include a couple pairs of dry socks. Snacks like trail mix or jerky. A light lunch should also be carried. Knowledge of general first aid is good but since you're in cell range, you won't have to worry about broken legs and the like because you can call for help. Two, maybe three, quarts of water per person. One roll of toilet paper for the gang along with a trowel for digging a hole and hand sanitizer. Let me tell you, learning how to poo in the woods was an interesting experience for this old guy. Hats. A camera. Have everyone leave their phones, ipods and games in the cars. Figure on a half day activity. Plan out a trail that will take you about four hours to do which should be about five miles. If you're really humping, five miles can be done in about two hours but you want to take it easy. Look at the trees and birds and bugs. Stop at the half way point for lunch. Take a map of the trail and have the kids try to figure out where they are. Take a plant guide and try to determine what the local trees are. Just some random thoughts.

One nice thing about the Switchbacks is that they come in a variety of inseams so you don't have to try to make do with a pair made for the 5'10" average american male.

Recognizing that you don't know is a big step in learning. I'm a shooting instructor and getting people, especially young men and boys, to admit that they don't know what they are doing is hard. Experience here ranges from "Super Outback Ranger Dude" to "Enthusiastic Novice." I put myself right above the "enthusiastic novice" rating and I'll never reach "super outback ranger dude" status. I made some big mistakes when starting out and I'll be glad to pass along my wisdom and I'm sure the Super Outback Ranger Dudes will be glad to help. So ask your questions. We'll do what we can to help.