Gold Winger

"Will he become a weapons specialist or pilot for the military?" Most likely not because he'll be so out of shape that he won't pass the physical.

"At anywhere in the US except the BSA Venturing program 18 is an adult." Not in a liquor store.

Is drinking really setting a bad example? My children have seen me drink hundreds of times, they've seen their grandfather drink hundreds of times but they've never seen either one of us drunk. For the record, I like American beer.

" red shoulder loops(I forgot the name (epital sp.)" They are just called "red shoulder loops." The tab that they slide over on the shirt is an "epaulette" although some will argue that an epaulette has fringe (think 19th century naval officiers) but the current fashion industry thinks otherwise.

I have many pistols, a pile of revolvers, a bunch of rifles and a few shotguns. So?

If you were truly an environmentalist, you'd eschew the car for your commute and pedal. When you say "plow" with the truck, I'm guessing that you mean snow. A really green person would be out there with a shovel.

"Would be a cool father/son project but early research indicates about $14k for the conversion kit, not including the donor car." So being green isn't worth any cost?

Gern, I should be shocked but I'm not. I get a charge out of how many self-proclaimed environmentalists drive gas hogs. LOL!

I'm just baffled why you say the BSA rules will go right out the window. Back in my youthful days, my church youth group had members from the 7th grade through college age and one or two adult advisors. The whole lot of us went on trips together with nary a problem. Mostly the groups broke down by age with mixing happening for things like singing off key or the daily poker fest. Maybe it was a simpler time but no one worried about the 20 year old guys trying to seduce the 14 year old girls. If anything, it was the 14 year old guys trying to convince the 20 year old girls that we were studly enought to warrant their attentions. It must have been rather comical.

A big GM stationwagon. 350 cid engine (5.7 l for you metricans) with fuel injection, overdrive, and a locking torque converter. No towing package either. Once it is up to speed, it doesn't take much to keep it there.

" National rules forbid being tapped out OR going thru Ordeal with a lodge other then your council's." I think that this is where the confusion started with my situation. One advisor said that it was okay and another said no. Evidently the one was thinking of call out because you can be called out in another lodge. "A lodge may not call out candidates from a visiting out-of-council troop or team unless the unit leader presents a letter from the home lodge chief and lodge adviser, requesting the call-out and identifying the members to be called out." Source: "Guide for Officers and Advisors"

"If your 14 year old daughter (Crew youth, freshman in high school) was hanging out with a 20 year old boy (Crew youth, sophomore in college) I'm sure the BSA rules will go right out the window!" So you're saying that you'd approve of them sharing a tent?

". Now, it's a bit more aggressive - mountain biking and skating and snowboarding half-pipes or rails." Those are the kids who are out doing something but they are really in the minority. Look at all the fat kids today, they aren't skating or mountain biking.

I can see shutting the engine off while sitting at a red light but while coasting down a hill? Since most cars today have power steering and power brakes, controlling your car could become problematic, to say the least.

I wonder how you can plan on stopping at the top of a hill instead of at the bottom. I usually stop wherever there are stop signs or stop lights.

"Wnen you say that parents are "running the show" in Boy Scouts or Venturing, do you mean patrol meetingn, Troop meetings. activities and outings?" Patrol meetings, troop meetings, planning, outings, everything. "Do you see this as a feature of the Scouting program, or as a probelm of leadership in the unit?" It isn't a feature of the program, at least it isn't an intended feature. I think that too many of today's parents aren't willing to let go and let the kids make mistakes and thereby learn.

LOL!

It doesn't take any longer to turn on a CFL than it does a regular bulb, does it? So other than the initial cost of a CFL, there's no impact on me and the CFL will pay for itself in about a year. However, three more hours behind the wheel means at least one more cup of coffee, another pee stop and maybe an extra meal. So that $2 in gas savings might wind up costing me $5 or $6.

Who has the time to go camping anymore? Kids are on the go all weekend long with one game after another. When I was active with my son's troop, it used to drive me nuts that we'd go to all the trouble of driving 30 miles to camp and then break camp at 9 AM on Sunday because parents insisted that their kids be home for other activities. Heck, you're there in the woods, enjoy the day.

Sorry but I'm not that altruistic. $2 isn't worth three hours of my time or should I say, three hours of my time isn't worth two dollars. We'd probably save much more oil if people carpooled or took mass transit but I'm not to be riding the bus anytime soon. It takes me 15 minutes to get to work if I drive. If I take the bus, I have to transfer and the whole process takes more than an hour and costs more than driving. Where's my incentive?

"GW; Your car must be an exception." Boy 3%! So if that's true, I'd get almost 26 mpg. Wow! What a savings. :-) So one of my weekend jaunts of 500 miles would only cost me $63 instead of $65. That's really worth spending another 3 hours sitting my car. I believe that I get the mileage that I do despite my car's 5,000 lb weight is that at 80 mph, the trans is in OD and the torque converter is locked so I'm only turning 2,000 rpm. Ed, Mythbusters is interesting but as scientists they make really good SFX guys.

BSA's membership numbers have dropped since the 60s. Why? One arguement is that there is much more pulling at the kids today than there used to be. Sports have become a year round activity and not in the traditional sense of the four letter man. Basketball is year round. Soccer is year round. Baseball is nearly year round. If you want to play a sport, that becomes your life. But sports have a process of natural selection and most but the very talented drop out of overly organized sports by the end of middle school. I don't buy the argument of girls and cars either. Despite what we want to belive, our teen aged boys are not junior Cassanovas. At least the boys that I know. Strangely, it is usually the thugs that have the girlfriends. Go figure. Let's just look at life in general. Until the fourth quarter of the last century, where did kids spend most of their time? If they were healthy, they were outside. If it was hot, they were outside. If it was cold, they were outside. Often, even if it was raining they were outside. Also, who were the heroes of the youth of yesteryear? In general, they were outdoorsmen. Buffalo Bill, Dan'l Boone, Davey Crockett, Tom Mix, John Wayne, Roy Rogers, Lewis and Clark, the Lone Ranger. Even before movies, radio or TV, dime novel cast outdoorsmen in heroic roles. So what did boys do? They emulated their heroes and went into the woods looking for adventure. Even as far back as when Twain wrote "Tom Sawyer" this was the case. Tom and a friend played "Robin Hood." So Scouting would have a natural appeal to boys back then. Hey! We can go play in the woods and our mothers won't get upset about us getting dirty. Something else was different back then as well. Kids of all ages played together. No play dates. No play groups. It was just "play." The older kids ran the neighborhood and saw to it that the younger ones understood and lived by the rules of the block. There was a natural order of things. You may not have been best friends with everybody but everyone made an effort to get along. I learned to play football by playing it on the street. No coaches. The "big boys" explained plays in simple terms. The same was true for baseball. Of course there were times that the big guys would be playing tackle and the little guys couldn't play but that was okay. No one ever said that you had to be included in everything. Also, by being in a mixed age group, you learned that there was different behavior for different situations. Belching was cool if you were just chillin' after a football game with the guys but if you were a young guy and decided to belch when one of the big guys was chatting with a cutie, you most likely would get walloped. This translated into Scouting in that the older boys expected to be in charge of the younger boys and teach them what they need to know. So where does that leave us today? Who are the heroes of today's suburban youth? Not Davey Crockett. Do we even see kids playing like we did back in yesteryear with complex games with complex rules that they make up? Okay, if I shoot you . . . you have to fall down until you count to 100 or the medic comes and patches you up unless I throw a grenade and then . . . Kids don't just go outside to play. Nowadays it's play dates and play groups of very select kids. If Jimmy has a disagreement with Johnny, one is going to be excluded from the play group. Older kids don't go outside to play anymore. If they aren't mezmmerized by their video games, they are being shuttled from activity to activity by their parents. No pick up games. No made up games. Parents are in charge of everything. And of course, everything is divided by lines carefully drawn by age. So where does that leave Scouting? In a big mess, that's where. What's the appeal of going camping to kids who are really afraid of the outdoors? Other than a casual mention in social studies, they have no idea who Davey Crockett is and so have no desire to emulate him. We look to the older boys to provide leadership since their lives have been spent only interacting with people their own age, they see no value in providing leadership to the younger ones. So after 14, they usually drop out instead of saying, "Hey, this is my opportunity to lead." Today's parents are so used to controlling every aspect of their children's lives that they insist on running the show in Scouting. So is it any wonder that Scouting's numbers are dropping? (This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

Life just isn't fair sometimes. Adult OA membership isn't supposed to be bestowed as an honor to the adult but because those doing the nomination believe that the adult has something to offer the OA. Sadly, that usually isn't the case and most adults in OA are like the youth and do little other than pay their dues.

Sometimes the adult advisors stick their noses in where they don't belong. A few years back, a young fellow couldn't go to his ordeal because he was ill, very ill. He was going to be spending the summer working at a camp where they did call outs and ordeals every week. I tried to get permission for him to do his ordeal at the camp. The Lodge Chief had no problem with it but one of the adult advisors said, "nope. no way. uh-uh. ain't gonna happen." And that was that.

"Meanwhile, out on the freeway, people still are driving their gas guzzlers at 80+ mph. Go figure." My car gets 25 mpg on the highway at 80 mph and 25 mpg at 60 mph. Why take more time to get there?