Gold Winger

I was never a Cub Master :-) Maybe we are doing it wrong but I find it silly that if someone was dual registered that he'd have to wait six years to get his second award. Of course it would be nice to have a pipeline to the Gods in Texas to get an official ruling. Anytime that I've asked my DE a question like this, I'm told "I don't know. Why are you asking?" The time that I've send the SE and email with a question like this, I was told to ask the DE.

Sorry Brent but not quite. If you are a Cub Master from 2000 - 2004, you can put in for the Cub Master Award. If you are also Troop Committtee Member from 2001-2004, you can put in for the Boy Scout Leader award. If you are registered as a District Committee Member from 2002-2005, you are eligible for that award. It the same organization overlap that isn't permitted. You cannot use time that you counted for Cub Master Award for the Cub Scouter Award UNLESS you are a Cub Master with one Pack and registered with another pack as a Committee Member. Each simultaneous registration gives you another clock for purposes of awards. I'm an example of that. I earned the Boy Scout Leader Training Award and was working on the District Committee Key at the same time. Two registrations, two clocks.

My son's troop started off with a small trailer which has grown larger thanks to an adult who keeps buying bigger trailers for himself. Our current trailer is pretty big, big enough to have two axles. The back door is a double door. There is also a door on the side near the front. We have shelves in the front for stoves, and small propane bottles. There are also hooks for hanging shovels, rakes, rope, etc. which are held in place with bungees. PVC pipe on the roof holds flagpoles and tent poles for the flies. There was talk but I don't know if it happened of putting a rack over the tongue for the large propane tanks. Cost was nothing since it was donated.

" See what things the parents complain about." I retired from umpiring a few years ago. What I rember is that parents refused to believ that their Johnny couldn't hit the strike zone. Seems that since the pitcher is the glory spot, the most aggressive parents would be the parents of the pitchers. You mention Patrol Advisors. I understand the concept but in my experience they cause more problems than anyone. Usually, the PA is the parent of one of the New Scouts and refused to let go of the idea of being a den leader. Troop Guides and Instructors should be doing the job of "Patrol Advisor." In my opinion, the PA should sit in the back of the patrol meeting and keep quiet most of the time. Maybe he should say things like, "Hey guys, how are you going to get there? Do you know who to ask?" All too often the PA winds up arranging everything and even does a de facto appointment of the PL (Johnny needs a leadership position, all in favor of him being PL say "Aye." )

I like it.

"Never once did a manger ask me to prove to him that I could write a program on the spot. And that review was for real $$ not for First Class. " First Class is more important than $$.

This is so simple. If the badge isn't "earned" until it is entered into ScoutNet then a Scout might have to wait months before he could have a BOR for Life. "I know that you finished those merit badges Tom, but they haven't been earned yet." However, the date that should go on the advancement report is the date on the blue card and that is the date that Scout Net should reflect. So, if a Scout comes running in to a BOR, all out of breath and says, "Sorry I'm late but I had to stop by Mr. Smiths house and get my Camping blue card signed," would we say, "Sorry but that hasn't been entered into Scout Net"?

Why do we need so much parental involvement in youth activities today? I don't remember much from my Cub Scout days but I know that we only had a Den Mother, no Assistant DM. I'm sure that there were adults behind the scenes but they didn't have enough of an impact to make me remember them. In youth baseball, there were a couple dads who were coaches and that was it. I don't remember a mom bringing cupcakes or hot dogs for the games. In fact it was more like "Leave it to Beaver." The kids would play and Dad would ask "How was the game." No tailgating or parents yelling at the umpires. When I started umpiring in the early 80s, it was still much like that. Few parents in attendance. The coaches and a couple more who had volunteered to drive. I was involved in my church's youth group for many years, we only had two parents involved. That was it. We planned our own activities and fund raising. The adults helped with things like signatures on documents. I was an altarboy. The head altar boy worked for the priest and he ran the program. It was his job to see to it that the robes were cleaned, to make the schedule, recruit new altar boys. My son was an altar boy and there were three parents in charge of the program. There was a nominal youth leader but he had no responsibilities. I was in a slew of activities in high school. In drama club we had a teacher who did the choreography and another who was the overall advisor but we did everything else. Fund raising, set design, costume design, lighting, sound.. . . Occassionaly, we'd lassoo a parent to help with something like sewing a fancy dress. I stopped by a play rehersal at the high school recently and there were more adults than kids. The adults were painting the sets, running the wardrobe area, doing make-up, running lights and sounds. All the kids had to do was open and close the curtain and walk out on stage and say their lines. I wasn't a boy scout but I have many friends who were. Most, if not all, say that they didn't have the level of parental involvement that we have today. They'd go camping with the SM and an ASM and that was it. Now we have "adult patrols" tagging along. Is all of this involvement a good thing? Are we crippling our kids, boys and girls, by taking over their activities in our efforts to "make them better"?

Accepting one but refusing to accept the other is both rather closed minded and somewhat silly, IMHO.

"The biggest and most often voiced opposition I get is that Scouting should be a place for a boy to be exposed to "positive male role models". That the inclusion of female scouters disrupts that bonding atmosphere." That's what I think. Strange how no one vociferously objects when GSUSA says that leaders must be women because girls need women as role models. As i've said before and I'll say again, the sad truth is that without women, many units would fold. We are plagued with absentee fathers, often because of divorce or because the mother has no idea who the father is. We also seem to have a large number of fathers who are around but don't want to be inovolved with anything unless it revolves around NASCAR, NFL, NBA, etc.. Boys really do need an environment where they can be boys without a mother, any mother, following them around.

"GW, FWIW, I do not believe that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel." But you don't have a problem with a tent maker having a "vision" while travelling which prompted him to start writing letters telling people what to do?

" Usually when I see "Advancement" happenin' in a crew, it's because some Boy Scouting volunteers . . ." Of course it could be that the boys want to work on advancement but I've sure that Beaver would never believe that could be possible.

Yes, she would have to remain in GS to earn GS stuff since Venturing has no formal relationship with GSUSA. If a boy is dual registered, he can get Star through the troop, Life through the Crew and then Eagle wherever he wants. It makes no never mind to BSA. Girls can earn the Gold award through GSUSA, which carries many of the same perqs as Eagle such as early advancement in the armed forces.

" Moses really had a prayerful, personal relationship with Divinity. Which would explain why the Mosaic code in the Torah was so novel and attractive, and why it endured." If you really believe that, I'll bet that you didn't know that "gullible" is not in the dictionary. The last six rules that Moses chisled into those rocks were adopted by societies around the globe. Societies that were polytheistic and atheistic. Why? Because they make sense to keep a society under control. BTW, if your God's injunction is against any sort of killing than he really must be an evil and vile diety. Look at all of the people that he wiped out in the great flood. How about all of the armies that were killed by the Jews with God's help? Or does it go along with, "I'm in charge so I don't have to follow the rules." Actually, that goes well with your ideas in general because you think that written rules only mean what you want them to mean. Ta!

"Yah, thanks to SWS for lookin' up that bit and providin' GW with a direct publication quote indicating that blue cards are optional. I take the change of topic to be his form of apologizin'" Well Beav, one publication says that they MUST and another says that they are optional. I'll go with MUST but you do what you want as I know that you do anyway. Maybe I'll look in the bible, apparently all of the answers are in there. As for the insurance thing, I'm just going with what BSA says. I know that you only like to go with what you believe but that's life. Now, if only IGNORE USER would work. I could ignore you and you could ignore and you could continue to give bad info to all near and far without any interference.

"Stealing is wrong regardless of the reason." Let's say that you are stranded in the bayous and Luc and Raoul are chasing you because they want to eat your innards for breakfast. You come across their truck with the keys still in it. You know that you can steal the truck, escape the parish and get back to civilization where the state police can help you. Would stealing that truck to save your life be wrong?

If you are registered with a pack, troop and the district committee at one time, then that time counts for the Cub Scouter, Boy Scout Leader and District Committee awards. As you have figured out, you cannot use you time as Den Leader to count for both the Den Leader award and Cub Scouter award. However, if you earn the DL award and then spend more years as a DL, you can use those extra years towards the Cub Scouter award.

About a thousand years ago, give or take a few decades. Why?

I don't have a requirements book so I can't peek but is there anything in there about the need to register or charter a unit? If there isn't, does that mean that units don't have to re-charter? According to you guys, it does. One only needs to follow requirements, not policies. Beaver, you are comical. You pretend to know so much but you really know very little. BSA says "insurance may be invalid if.. . ." but the all knowing Beaver says "oh no, BSA is wrong." So if BSA doesn't mean what they say, how can we know what we should do? I know, Ask the Beaver, he knows everything.

" What makes it so is readin' the rest of the Bible so as to understand." I've read the bible. I've read the Koran (in the original Klingon). I've read the book of Mormon. All interesting books but they were all written by men. Moses needed to find a way to control a bunch of rowdy people. So he went up on the hill and wrote some rules. Ohhhhh. You cry. God wrote the bible!! It is comical that most bible thumpers reject the notion that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel but gladly accept the idea that a tent maker had a vision which prompted him to "accept" Christ and write a bunch of letters. Those letters form most of the basis of "Christianity" to the point that it should really be "Paulism."

" killing someone in self defense is still murder" No, it isn't. Murder is the unlawful killing of another person. Self-defense is legal in most locales so cannot be murder.

" Every commandment is about personal growth and personal relationship with Divinity." If that's what you want to believe, go ahead and believe that but it doesn't make it so.

I'm registered in two councils. I didn't have to declare one to be primary. What irritated me was both councils insisted on collecting the $10 registration fee. You can join either OA lodge but only one. Adults can be registered with more than one troop but youth are only supposed to be registered with one but a younth may regestered with one troop, and 27 crews if they desire.

" Play fair or don't play" I'm playing fair, you just don't understand the game.

"Coveting is part of da big 10, GW, because morality is concerned with the health of each human soul" So those who don't believe that they have a sould can have no morals? Interesting idea. The last six have to do with keeping peace in the neighborhood not your soul.