Gold Winger

Heaven's to Murgatroid! Quoting the founding fathers. Whatever was he thinkig? Which founding father was quoted?

My "let 'em sue" was about the absurdity of BSA suing member unit over trademark infringement. That would really provide BSA with the good publicity that they desire. BSA does have the money to wage endless court battle. The middle class moms and dads (I don't think Spiral Scouts are run by Republicans) who start up an organization don't have the money to pay for a good lawyer to fight BSA. So looking at losing their house and the kids college fund, they decide to fold up their tents and cease to be "Venture Rangers" and become "Exciting Activity Group."

Interesting how JFK's comments on seperation of church and state include nothing about mangers in parks or prayers before a football games.

That's one of the great things about politics. You can say one thing whilst your supporters are saying another.

Found these web sites, http://www.crew700.org/ http://www.troop700bsa.org/ It says nothing on their web sites about the units being for children with special needs. It does show that there is a great overlap between the adult leadership of the two units. The charter org's website is mute on the whole issue.

I know that when I was called out for OA, I was told about the scant food and water so I told the advisors that I was diabetic and asked if there were allowances for me. One piped up that I had to surrender all insulin and test equipment and suffer with everyone else. Turned out that he was joking and was a diabetic himself. The reality is that they said, "eat if you have to, just don't go hog wild with a Sub from Subway" or something like that. I checked my blood sugar regularly and ate some candy when I was getting low. I've found most handicapped/disabled/physically challenged people to be reasonable when it comes to things that are designed around normal abilities and will ask for reasonable accomadations and will help look for solutions. Then there are the militants who expect that everything be changed to accomodate them at the drop of a hat. I could see a militant showing up at ordeal without ever asking about accomodations for his condition and then launching a suit because they couldn't do much to accomadate him. Of course we'll probably never know the entire story.

However, they are doing their best to limit what can go on a shirt. Look at the list of Boy Scout trademarks http://www.bsalicensing.org/trademarklisting.htm You couldn't have your shirt say "Boy Scout Troop 954" because Boy Scout is a trademark. What about Philmont shirts? Philmont is a registered trademark as are the bull and arrowhead. You could have a locally made shirt that says, "Troop 954, Expedition to that big place in New Mexico." As it says on the website "In effect, just about any mark that reasonably relates to BSA or its program is protected"

Mormons are Christians. The name of their church is The Church of Jesus Christ etc. As for the whole concept of holy scripture, it was written by people to achieve their own goals or maybe it was God whispering in the ears of men. Gold Plates? Where are the rocks that Moses brought down from the mountain? Where is the cross? Why are the scribblings and rantings of a tent maker any more valid than the scribblings and rantings of anyone else? Why shouldn't a politician use religion to garner votes? I'm a bit young to remember it, but I understand that JFK played the Catholic card quite well. Black politicians play the black card. You play the cards in your hand. That's politics. I view organized religion with the same jaundiced eye that I use to look at BSA. For the people at the bottom of the heap it means one thing, for the people at the top it means power and money and more money means more power.

We need to wonder if BSA's diligence in protecting their trademarks should really extend to the members of BSA. Unit have always been allowed to use BSA logos, until now. Is there really an issue with quality and insurance? I seriously doubt it. Even in my twisted mind, I cannot concieve of a scenario in which a troop orders crappy t-shirts from "Jim's Shirt Shop" and then says, "Dang that BSA, their shirts are so crappy." No, they'd just find a new shirt supplier. I really doubt if insurance is an issue either. Perhaps if a scout fell off of a cliff and was caught on a tree branch that hooked his shirt collar and then the shirt ripped and he plummeted to his death. This being America the named defendants would include BSA, the Scoutmaster, Hanes, and the shirt shop. Yep, it's all about that exta buck or two that they can garner from each shirt.

I should point out that I am happy that the Scout that I mentioned was given his medal. It was his BSA training that gave him the knowledge and skills to do what he did instead of just standing there, either dumbfounded of futilely trying to get the attention of the lifeguard.

There was at least one given out after the attack on the world trade center. A Scouter and volunteer firefighter from outside of NY was in town when the planes attacked the WTC. He rushed to offer assistance, identified himself, and was put to work. He was one of those who died when the buildings fell. I think that either adults are held to a higher standard or no one ever thinks of giving us one. For example, if I used an AED to save someone's life, folks would say, "It's lucky that old guy knew how to use that box." If a 14 year old did it, it would be news and of course he'd mention that he is a Boy Scout and someone would think of giving him a medal. A Scout in my son's troop got a medal because he was at the pool, saw someone in trouble that the life guard hadn't noticed so he jumped in and dragged the person to safety.

" The BSA is scouting," That's like saying the Pope is Christianity. BSA just happens to be a Scouting organization, one that is money grubbing and petty. However, BSA is not Scouting.

As the kids say, or used to say, "Whatev dude."

A YP incident could be a Scouter driving his neigbor's son home without another person in the car. Without any allegations of misconduct, no one is going to do anything. What we're saying is that at the slightest glimmer of an allegation of misconduct you get to hang your tan shirt in the closet and may never get to wear it again.

Who hates Scouting? " The BSA saw that many people (not in scouting) where using their logos so they put a stop to it." Since the old rules about the logos prohibited people outside of Scouting from using the logo, that was already covered. It's about money. Beyonce and Brittany are still going to wear Cub Scout shirts. The only difference is that now troops will be expected to pay BSA for their troop t-shirts. If it wasn't about money, it would have been simple enough to clarify the language and say that units could could continue to use the logos to have locally made shirts, shorts and neckerchiefs but exclude sleeping bags, packs and pocket knives. Money, money, money, moneeeeey.

Well, I gotta admit that this is news to me and sad news as well. "Official Licensees are contractually bound to and regularly monitored by the BSA to ensure that they adhere to product quality standards, maintain levels of insurance necessary to protect the end user in the case of product failure, and abide by a code of conduct that compels them, among other things, to provide acceptable working conditions for those producing products bearing BSA trademarks." I do have laugh about this. Go to the Scout shop, the Switch back pants are being made in China, as are mugs, tents, etc.. I'm sure that BSA has given the Chinese strict instructions about working conditions and pay. And we do need to make sure that our T-shirt printer has enough insurance in case one of the shirts explodes. This is about squeezing every dime out of the membership that they can. Instead of getting your shirts locally produced for $10 each, you'll have to get them from BSA for $12 each. Even if it is $10 each, you won't be able to get YOUR design, I'm sure that it will be like Philmont, only a few designs each and you have to live with it. Maybe we should withhold payment from BSA or just carry on like we have been and let BSA sue us. :-)

BP called it a cowboy hat. The proper name for that had is a "Montana Peak Hat." The army calls it a campaign hat but that is the third version of such. The Marines call it a field hat.

"When my daughter joined a Venture Crew, the question came up that she had earned a religious award as a Girl Scout, therefore was she able where (sic) the knot on here Venture uniform?" Since the award is neither a Girl Scout nor Boy Scout award, she may wear it IF it is an award RECOGNIZED by BSA, pin and knot. The key thing here is that the knot represents the medal. If the medal isn't recognized, then you cannot wear it and by extension cannot wear the knot to represent it. I wasn't a Boy Scout but if I had earned the Alpha-Omega award as a youth, I could now wear both the knot and the medal because the award is recognized by BSA. People may try to spin this any way that they want but that's only because they don't understand the Religious Awards program.

Those refer to commercial uses. Read http://www.scouting.org/identity/contents/12.html For the convenience of BSA units and the media, the following trademark and signature files are provided in JPEG and PNG formats, each in black-and-white and color. . . . No council, unit, or third party may use BSA proprietary marks for any commercial purposes (e.g., manufacturing, creating, or selling items bearing BSA proprietary marks or manufacturing or otherwise creating items that could potentially be for resale), nor may any organization other than the BSA National Council authorize such rights, either actual or implied, to any third party. So, a unit may have shirts made with the BSA emblem for its own use but may not make and sell first aid kits that say "BOY SCOUT FIRST AID KIT." At least that's the way that I read it and the way that it was explained to me by our DE when I asked long ago, "Do we need permission to have shirts made?"

Maybe BSA tries to avoid making statements so that when push comes to shove, they can say, "that's not in the books. Our double secret memos say . . ."

As has been pointed out to me, Mr. Walton's page is not an official BSA page. Of course, I've been slammed for quoting council sites. Go with whatever you want to believe, there are no uniform police but nothing in any official publication on my shelves indicates that Mr. Walton is correct. The sad truth is that getting an answer from BSA is nearly impossible. If you find a way to ask National, they'll say ask your Council. If you ask your DE, he/she will just shrug and say, "I don't know" in an irritated manner that implies "why are you bothering me, I have more important things to worry about like creating new units."

That's not what it says.

" Any of your youth members who earn this award, and who are also members of BSA, can wear the universal religious square knot for earning the religious emblem award of their faith, they simply would not be able to wear the award itself on the BSA uniform." Are you sure? The knot represents the medal/award, if the award is recognized by BSA the knot wouldn't be authorized.

If you have the time, driving is the best way to experience America. Get off the interstates and have lunch in the little towns, look at their parks and monuments, talk to the locals.

Because that's what my DE told me long ago. He said if there were allegations of sexual misconduct or abuse, membership was revoked to seperate the alleged offender from any situations where the situation could repeat itself. Not an exact quote but close enough.