gcnphkr

We have a bit of both. We have 19 scouts that are 15 or older, primarily Life or Eagle. There are 15 first year scouts 8 of which are either 1st Class or only need a SMC and BOR. The other 21 are a mix of mostly 1st Class and Star Scouts.

I don't push the scouts into POR's. But I try to have something for the SPL to tell them should they ask. They need to advance at their own pace, but I need to make sure they don't have to wait for an opportunity to advance.

I like numbers and I find the rank break down interesting:

8   Eagles 11 Life 4   Star 15 First Class 7   Second Class 9   Tenderfeet 3   Scouts

There is a bottleneck between 1st Class and Star but I'm not totally sure what is causing it. Part is that prior to this year we averaged 22 months to 1st Class so the first years are caught up with the second years and even some of the third and forth years.

What would you do with two Chaplain's Aides? For that matter, I'm not sure what I would do with two Quartermasters or a third ASPL.

As a point of reference. The troop currently has 57 scouts in 7 patrols.

We do not prevent people from holding an office just because they don't need one. Of the leadership team the SPL, a ASPL, the OA Rep, a DC and (soon) a TG no longer need their POR for rank advancement as they will either be Eagles or completed the POR for Eagle. I'd fight any attempt to remove these scouts from office to make room for someone else. I view these positions (okay, not the OA Rep) to be critical and not suitable for all scouts.

The patrols do tend to elect a PL that needs it, an on occasion a PL will step down in the course of his term to make room for someone else in their patrol. But this is neither expected nor encouraged.

The other appointed PORs go to those who the SPL chooses from among those who are willing and able with need being a secondary consideration. If a scout is not fulfilling their commitments they are counseled and if nothing changes they are asked to step down.

That would help in getting the Scout to Life, but the Eagle app itself calls for PORs held at each rank.

Are you looking at an old application? The current one states for requirement 4: "List only those positions served after Life Board of Review date."

It is.

Currently the patrols take turns teaching the skills each month.

The successful Instructor had targeted skills that he taught in a break out for those that needed it and generally did this at one or two meetings a month. Doing it every week for six months would be burdensome, so perhaps a team of instructors would work. We've only had one at a time in the past.

What wingnut said it exactly right. Vision, that is what is needed. People do not follow programs, policies or institutions. They follow vision. If the adults don't have it then the scouts never will. If the Charter Organization wants a troop then they need to find a Scoutmaster with a vision for what the troop will be and is willing to work to make it happen. Why the Scoutmaster? Because he embodies that vision to the scouts. The SPL may have a vision, but it will likely only be through his term in office. The CO and CC may have visions, but have no outlet to express it. So it falls to the Scoutmaster. A vision not just of the coming year but to what this ideal troop will be. Find a SM with a vision for the troop and the ability to give that vision to others and the troop will succeed. Don't and sooner or later the troop will fail.

It sounds like you are the closest to having this. Why is it that being the SM is not an option?

The Instructor is a POR which I've not found a way to utilize effectively. Most have not taken the initiative on this and had simply told the PLs, "Hey, I can do this for you if you want" and then waited for the PL to contact them. For the most part this has ended up being a "no show job" for the scout. The one time it worked was when the Instructor had a list of the scouts and the skills they needed to work on and would plan lessons around those skills. He would then get the scouts with that need together and work with them on that skill. At that it took a great deal of working with the scout, making sure he had a plan and was implementing it. Perhaps that is what it takes to make this position work.

Any suggestions?

"it isn't the SM's or Committee's job to "get the scout a position", eh? Boys earn a position either by election or through appointment by their peers."

My troop currently has 30 scouts 1st Class through Life. I have an additional 8 Eagle Scouts for a potential leadership pool of 38. Of those 18 currently need a POR (After BORs this will go to 43 and 26). Added up the troop has openings for about 20 PORs plus as many Den Chiefs as I can field. After elections and appointments I still have 6 scouts that need PORs. Some I'm working on getting them connected to Dens as Den Chiefs, others can wait until the next elections, etc. But two are 1st Class Scouts with less than 18 months until they turn 18. Neither has the temperament to be Den Chiefs and they can't blow a bugle. So, you bet I'm giving them opportunities to lead special projects. I can't make them succeed, that is up to them, but it is my responsibility to make sure they have the opportunity.

It is not a prerequisite, merely a requirement.

I did not know that about the effect of carbon on the canvas. Never who build a fire large enough to heat the canvas but I can see how maintaining a good seal would be a problem.

Here is a nice set of photos showing the versatility of the tent. http://www.bushcraftliving.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2542

My quote is from the ACP&P. The SMH is less helpful:

A Scout wanting to complete an advancement requirement must demonstrate to his leader that he has fully mastered a skill at the level expected. In a new-Scout patrol, that leader might be the assistant Scoutmaster or the troop guide assigned to the patrol. Scouts in regular patrols and Venture patrols might be tested by adult troop leaders or by their own patrol leaders, troop guides, or another junior leader, provided that the boy leader has already earned the rank the Scout is aiming for.

It gives examples of who the leader might be but does not specify how to determine who the leader is in any situation, and complicates it by assuming that a Scout that has earned a rank retains the knowledge of the skill. If only it was so.

(It sure is nice having these in PDFs. I need to get the Scout Handbook scanned).

From the advancement guide:

The Boy Scout is tested. A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member, or a member of his troop. The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates. The Scouts merit badge counselor teaches and tests on the requirements for merit badges.

The PLC delegated this to the correct person. This is your job.

In our troop those things that require testing (those that say explain, demonstrate, describe, repeat from memory, identify or tell) are signed off by myself or someone who I know has that skill. Others are generally signed off as they occur or during the SMC. I recently had a scout transfer from out of state. All he had left to do for his Tenderfoot was 10b (show improvement). He wanted to know who should test him on this. I told him that he could do it himself. His eyes got big with surprise. I said, "You are a Scout. I know you would not cheat".

BW-

Flammability Warning

No tent material is completely fireproof. It can burn when exposed to continued, intense heat or fire. The most important safeguard is to keep flames away from canvas materials. For this reason, the following safety precautions are emphasized:

Only flashlights and electric lanterns are permitted in tents. No flames in tents is a rule that must be enforced.

Never use liquid-fuel stoves, heaters, lanterns, lighted candles, matches, and other flame sources in or near tents.

Do not pitch tents near an open fire.

Do not use flammable chemicals near tentscharcoal lighter or spray cans of paint, bug killer, or repellent.

Be careful when using electricity and lighting in tents.

Always extinguish cooking campfires promptly.

Obey all fire laws, ordinances, and regulations.

#1 would seem to prevent a fire from being built under the awning, which is about the best spot if you are using it for warmth. #3 does not say how close "near" is. The SMHB says they should be "well away". If you use the 5 foot rule that applies to vegetation (BSHB) then the closest you could place the fire it about 11ft from the enclosed part of the tent. It would take a large fire to provide much heat at that distance.

Oddly enough, I've not seen the OA be told not to build fires in their tee pees--but that could be a local thing.

Any small sticks about that size will work. Pencils are just very cheap (at least if your wife does what mine does and buys them by the gross during back to school sales).

Rope making is fun and a good place to start.

Teach him to correctly use an axe and a bow saw. Locate a stand that needs thinning. He'll make his own poles and a few brush piles for the wildlife.

Also, it might help if he could build models. Often projects on paper don't build so well. Pencils and kite string work fine for this and allow for proof of concept before going out and building one full size.

d'oh!

still $325 for the flame resistant is better than I've seen for a baker from anyone else.

Of course the nicest thing about the baker is having a nice fire out front, which is against G2SS.(This message has been edited by jet526)

Lean-To-8-W 8x8 water repellent 165.00

Lean-To-8-M 8x8 marine finshed 195.00

Lean-T--8-F 8x8 flame resistant 235.00

Those aren't the prices I find. Is there a discount somewhere that I'm not seeing?

(This message has been edited by jet526)

That was it. If you didn't make the cut off date then you had a bigger hill to climb with the changes. Based on the numbers and that I missed the cut off that would seem to have been 1975.

As a SM that is happy to "poach" cubs from any troop that is not helping the pack at all levels I think this is short sighted. I want the boys in the troop that will be best for them. I get a call from a parent about once a month asking about the troop. I tell them about it and then also tell them about a couple of other units in the area. To me, the important thing is that the scout find a troop that he will be happen in for the next 5-7 years. When I start thinking that my affiliate pack owes me new scouts then I've stopped wanting what is best for the scouts and am only out for ego.

This Den Chief should stay with the den as long as he is willing and able. His is their friend and should know what his is doing at this point. Why mess that up by bringing in a stranger who may not even care?

Nope, there are plenty of Lems out there and boys happily following them. You are confused by the number of Ralph Hastings that exist both in and out of scouting.

Sadly, into every one's life, some Ralph will come.

I doubt you will change the older scout participation any. For starters MB are targeted at 13 year olds and generally camps end up dumbing them down so they really can be dull for older scouts. You might do better offering a high adventure camp option for the 14+ scouts. Also, in a troop that size I would expect that a half dozen or so of the older scouts are either CITs or paid staff at camp.

We have started to rotate camps, but not for the scouts. The same number and age of scouts end up going. But after going to the same camp for several years it was difficult to get adults to go. Now that we rotate we seem to have happier adults. The bad thing is that the scouts don't get a feeling of loyalty towards a particular camp. That may have an impact in the future on older scouts who no longer want to work at the camp of their youth. Another disadvantage is that many camps give site and week preference to returning units. So if you start rotating camps you may find yourself in less than desirable sites or weeks. Although with 40+ scouts you will likely be restricted to the one or two sites large enough to accommodate you anyway.

There is no reason for you to not become a member next year. As SM you are plenty busy so your involvement may be limited, but being a member would allow you to go to some functions that you might otherwise feel like an outsider. Parents are allowed at OA events but the experience will be richer for you if you are a member.

I'm a Brotherhood member and a SM. My service to the Order is my support and promotion of OA within the unit. I go to an occasional ordeal and chapter meeting, but for the most part I allow the son to do his OA without me.

I could be remembering wrong. It has been a few months. I watch it when I have one of those "Why am I doing this?" moments. The first time I saw it was at the PTC and I kept thinking, "They would never let the scouts do that now". I played it for a bunch of first years coming back from camp and they loved it. One scout made a comment and the other scouts all went "Shut up, we are watching this!" They've never done that with any other movie. At the end they wanted to learn the song. I'm going to see if they want to watch it for a campfire on a campout were we have electricity.

He might see if there is a ceremony team he could be a part of. Find out about up coming service projects. If chapter elections are past, or if he doesn't feel up to an office then he should talk with the Chapter Chief and see if he can help one of the Vice Chiefs. VC of Inductions always need help and does the VC of Events. Go to ordeals and serve as an elangomat. Have fun. I can't think of a reason for him not to be the OA Rep for the troop.

I was referring to the scene where Whitey is saving the scout that fell down the cliff. Watch the know he ties. IIRC it is some variant of the two half hitches and not a bowline, or some other fixed loop.