gcnphkr

There have been a few campouts that would not have happened without women going. They were the second (and 3rd/4th) adult. Some can have a tendency to hover, but I've fathers that are as bad. The women understand that this is basically a boys club and if they are going to be bothered by dirt, smoke, creepy crawlies, no toilets and the occasional fart then they will be happier not going.

Hyperbole: Deliberate exaggeration for effect.

Before everyone breaks out the champagne.

Just because the DAC is doing his job in empaneling an EBOR does not mean that the scout has passed it. The DAC will have the information from the troop as well and likely those issues will be raised at the EBOR. The board is not limited to only considering the references the scout provides, and will likely include the opinion of the SM in their deliberations.

Now the board members will likely not have an emotional stake in the situation like the SM appears to have, nor the political stakes the unit committee has. Therefore they are less likely to want to fight a losing battle. So unless there is much more than we are aware of then they will likely pass the scout. But that is by no means a given. That the SM has dug in this much and the committee has backed him despite the likelihood of being overturned, tells me that we do not have the whole story.

I think it is a silly custom. Teach the boys how to safely use a tool. When they use it improperly I correct them. If they abuse it then I admonish them and remove the weapon. I've never asked for a card.

And then make them use the money they earned at camp to pay for their trip to NOAC. One more week, one more week! WOO-HOO!

As to the topic. Different parents have different expectations, and my own have changed over the years. I encourage them to spend some time on advancement, make sure they have fun, and hopefully become a better performing group by the end of the week. I'm interested in seeing how camp goes this summer. The troop is going to a camp they have not been at in years. This camp only does MB classes in the morning leaving the afternoon free for patrol/troop activities. I like the idea and hope it works. I don't care for the "every man for himself" mindset that can occur in a camp were they can take (earn is a stretch) a dozen MBs.

Try to schedule the BOR later if they are willing. It is silly not to have the BOR one week short of 6 months. It should not take 2-3 weeks to process advancement. Enter the awards into ScoutNet, print the forms, turn them into council and pick up the badges on the same trip.

Do not do the BOR early, this can create an issue once your son is ready for his Eagle. These dates are checked. Getting rank and the COH this go around will not be worth the headaches down the road.

I'd prefer they'd kept their pants on, thank you very much.

I'm needed to re-cert on my BSA LG this summer.

Be_Prepared: Is this what I should do or am I needing to do the Aquatics Supervision courses instead? Does the BSA LG cover the other two? It is going to be hard enough making arrangements to retest for the BSA LG as I'm not going to camp this summer and will have to arrange with the AI to test me on a day that I can get up there.

Took it today. It is clear that the presentations are made at the patrol level. There is only enough time allotted to do it that way. We only had 17 taking the class in four patrols. It felt odd standing to make the presentation to three people at a table, so I sat down to do it. I think I was the only one to do this.

I never took TTT or TDC so I can't compare. There was an assumption of some basic skills but there are areas that the presenter could have gone into greater detail. Especially in the trainer's use of voice, eyes, ears and body language to manage the class. Useful handouts from the syllabus anyway.

I know it is called the "Trainer's EDGE". But I could have done without another 30 minute explanation, complete with all 4 steps. I'd like to think that by the time you get to this course you've heard and taught the model a number of times. I guess that is not always true, Cub Scouters and Committee might have only encountered it if they went to Wood Badge. On the plus side, we did get to make paper airplanes.

All of our staff, except for the professional, were former WB staffers. Mostly 3 beads with a couple of fromer CDs.

Heard something like this today to the Trainer's EDGE Training. Starting with unit leaders in 2010 and youth contacts in 2011. Getting Scoutnet to get this right seems to be a stretch.

I need to give some consideration to the order of the scouts on the preprinted ballots. They were just in alphabetical order. Those elected were spread throughout, but I may make a way to print them in random orders next year. There was also more discussion between the scouts than should have occurred, despite being told by the election team not to talk while voting. Writing the names out would have made the team's job very difficult. They had a hard enough time with the printed ballots, I'm not sure how they would have fared with reading some of the handwriting and spelling that would have been produced.

We ate them cold out of the can. Maybe heated in a stir fry would help. Myself, an ASM, the SPL and ASPLs who thought of it, ate them twice. We tried them a week before just to see how bad they could be. It turns out pretty bad. Think of eating a squishy mud-ball that had just started to get a crust on the outside. Still, I preferred it to the oysters. But then canned oysters are vile.

Remarkably, no one got sick. One scout did later, but I think it was dehydration that did him in.

We bring our own in 7 gal jugs (1 gal/person/day makes for a lot of water). Even if the free chlorine goes south there is little chance of a problem as long as there is no source for organics. The big nasties (Amoeba, Giardia, Cryptosporidium) are highly unlikely and you are much more likely to get something from the dust around the camp.

Saturday meals tend to be cooked. Pancakes, eggs, bacon (they are learning the joys of the precooked bacon) for the most part. Lunch tends to the canned ravioli/spaghetti-o's or sandwiches. Dinner is normally stews, foil dinners, or dutch oven meals (pizza is popular with one patrol) and will typically have some form of dessert. Typically there will be some sort of fruit with few veggies with the exception of salads, which seem to be fairly popular. There is some type of cracker-barrel after the campfire. Most likely popcorn. This may be for the whole troop or the patrols may go back to their campsites and do their own thing. The PCL decides on this in advance.

Sunday tends to be meals that require little or no cooking. Sunday lunch may be in the road on the way home at a park or rest area.

NSP tend to have the best balanced meals, with the meals going towards easier and less nutritious as they get older and the adults stop (give up?) riding them about the meals. Then, somewhere along the way, about 15 they start being more interested in making the effort to make good meals again. Sometimes the nutrition is horrid, they tend to get hungry and start doing better after that. I figure that no one starved to death on a weekend campout. The patrol that has the diabetic does do better than most of the others.

We had a "Survivor" campout last fall where the food was provided by the troop. One meal took a couple of hours. From California rolls and tomato juice to squid, octopus and tongue, capped off with silkworm pupae. Now they will eat just about anything. "Hey, it's better than silkworm".

Our patrols are on their own food wise. Occasionally we might be having a special meal, event where the troop purchases the food, but for the most part it is up to the patrols.

In a perfect world they plan their meals, including a budget. They they turn in their money a week ahead of time so that the grubmaster has the money to buy the food. The grubmaster then goes to the store, buys the food and then brings it to the campout. If they did not budget correctly the grubmaster has the authority to change the menu in order to reduce costs. Extra funds are returned to the scouts, or kept in the patrol kitty.

In the not so perfect world, the scouts don't turn in their money in advance. The grubmaster buys the food and is stuck trying to collect it after the fact. Generally, the scout(s) who had to be chased down, get to be grubmaster the next month. Eventually they learn to pay in advance.

For the most part it works out to around $8-12 for the 4 or 5 meals. The most I've heard of was $20, the least was $5. Some patrols eat ramen noodles, PBJ and pop tarts, others eat steak, meatball subs and omelettes. Some patrols have developed odd traditions on what they eat.

Rocky Mountain High Adventure Base in Colorado. http://www.rockymountaincouncil.org/RMHAB.htm

As for le Voyageur's Arizona suggestions. Troops and crews do both of these (and Mt Baldy, Grand Canyon, Aravaipa Canyon...well the list goes on). I'm not sure we would want them mucked up by getting the Council involved. Both Raymond (the camp abuts the Sycamore Canyon Wilderness) and Geronimo (at the base of the Mogollon Rim) could organize HABs with very little effort indeed.

Yes, tact is needed. The statement was not intended to be used word for word, but a condensation of a discussion. I would be very surprised if it ever got to having a meeting with all the parents as once they understand the need a qualified person will likely accept.

Eamonn,

Did you miss my first paragraph? "...you say to Mrs. Brown, 'I need to to be the Den Leader for the Webelos Den starting in June. This is what you will need to do and I and the CM will be there to help you get started. Will you do it?'" That is asking a specific person to do a specific task, I assume that palopinto is capable of asking someone that is qualified.

It is only "after everyone who should do it says, 'No'", that you call the meeting. You've exhausted all your possible resources. All you have left are the parents. Yes, it is a press gang. No, it is not ideal. But at some point the parents have to take ownership of this. The CC/CM/UC/DC/DE cannot make this work if there is no one willing to be the Den Leader. Unless your CO is the LDS or some other group willing to tell a member that their "calling" is to be the Den Leader then it will likely need to be one of the parents.

Eamonn,

Which part do you disagree with? Asking the individual parents who should be doing it to do their part? Expecting the parents who should be doing it to come up with a solution? Being realistic that if none of the parents who should be doing it care enough to do their part that there is not reason to have the den in the first place? This doesn't seem to be the case where there is no one qualified to lead but were those who are qualified are unwilling to lead. It can be very easy for parents to hope that someone else will step up and take on the responsiblity, but at some point they need to understand that they need to do it.

Rarely will you get someone if you say, "We need someone to do this". You are more likely to get someone when you say to Mrs. Brown, "I need to to be the Den Leader for the Webelos Den starting in June. This is what you will need to do and I and the CM will be there to help you get started. Will you do it?" Do not say anything after that until they say, "yes" or, "no". You can answer a few questions, but make them short and to the point then go back to waiting. In things like this the first to speak loses.

After everyone who should do it says, "No", you call a meeting of the parents. You tell them, "We have to have a Den Leader for this den. I've asked you all to do it but no one was willing. I'm going to leave for 15 minutes. When I come back I need to know that either you've decided to not have this den at all and that your sons will be leaving our pack, or you will have worked out who the DL and ADL will be next year. Thank you." Hopefully you all have adults who will step up, otherwise, close the den down, suggest other packs that the can join and relax. As much as you like you cannot do it without parents who are willing to do their part and it is not worth the aggravation.

As for your Webelos Den, have the ADL step up to be a DL and you go with one den to help and the CM go with the other. You have 5 leaders, split it up if you are all going to be there anyway.(This message has been edited by jet526)

Letters of reference are an optional method (see the Advancement Guide p.31). The references are required in any case. If the scout had not provided the letters the references would have been contacted anyway.

That four out of five (or six) references say that the scout should not be made an Eagle speaks volumes, chances are these contacts will be getting phone calls from the chair of the BOR to get more details which will be discussed at the BOR. Depending on the scout's response, he may be denied the rank and he will likely appeal. The letters will be a part of the appeal process all the way up the line.

One has to ask, why would a scout ask 4 people for references that end up giving poor references? Most people I know would say to the scout, "I can do it, but I will not be able to recommend you so you might want to ask someone else". Any adult that did not do that does not have the character that I would like to see in a reference.

Daily self-assessments? What are those?

For the most part they went like this:

PL, "How are we doing?"

Patrol, "Doing good."

Okay, it was a bit different on day 2. About as close as we came to storming. Day 1, people had been tentative and holding back. By day 2 this had stopped and there was some jocking for who was top dog, regardless of who was the PL for the day. We had a bit of a discussion about that. We might not have had the talk if it had not been for the self-assessment. No telling what the result would have been, but it could have made day 3 very long.

There is some variation between councils. Here, the envelope that J-in-KC mentions is sent directly to the scout. The SM never is notified, I'm not sure about the advancement chair.

yeah, that is basically what I told him. A scout is trustworthy, even when we don't like it.

Yeah, generally the scouts do a good job in their selections. So far I've allowed everyone to stand for the election who is "qualified" even if I wouldn't vote for them. It has been rare that one is elected.

Part of the issue this year is that our ceremonialists are getting old and we need new blood, so our ceremony adviser was not happy and wanted to know why I didn't add some extra votes to the ballots. I guess that would be a solution, give the unit leader some discretion to put a scout or two over the threshold. There where at least two I would have done that with if I could have.