gcnphkr

The van is mine. I don't know what it would cost for the troop to insure it but it doesn't cost very much for me to insure it.

The only real problem I had was that Whitey didn't know how to tie a bowline. People who pick it apart are more like Ralph Hastings than Lem.

"Young man you are a popinjay...and you are an employer of popinjays."(This message has been edited by jet526)

Camping--It is dirty, uncomfortable and boring.

Cooking--Anything beyond using a microwave and boiling water is just showing off.

Knots--Velcro, bungees and tie-downs all work fine.

Fires--What's the big deal? All you do is light the ends of the wrapper.

Hiking--All the things with camping, plus sweaty and blisters!

Flag Etiquette--Patriotism is old fashioned, we are the world.

Patrol Knowledge--Stupid flags and yells. They make us look like dorks. Beside we do everything as a troop.

Physical Fitness--Exercise! Enough said.

Map and Compass--All I need is my GPS to get to the campground with showers and flush toilets.

First Aid--That is what first responders are for. When was the last time you had to splint something, give CPR or stop a bad cut from bleeding. Boys don't even use axes, saws, hatchets or knives since they don't need firewood or to cut up meat or vegetables.

Lashings--Useless. I don't need a tripod to hold an cook pot over a stove and I don't need to build a litter because I'll just push a button on my radio and a 'copter will be out in a little while to pick us up.

Plant and Animal Identification--You don't eat it, cook with it or build with it so who cares? Tree, bush and bird is find. Besides, you don't see anything more exotic than a squirrel anyway.

Swimming--Those with pools can, those without pools don't need to. Lakes are too cold to swim in and I'll never be on a boat without a PFD.

So why do we learn all these skills? Because we are Boy Scouts! If we didn't want to camp, hike, climb, get dirty, jump in a lake, burn our food and fingers and be proud of our country and patrol then we would have joined some candy-ass after school program and glued pasta on construction paper, that's why!

SWMBO and the CO will not allow me to be a MB Counselor. They say I've enough to do as the SM to be a MB Counselor.

BTW, the 4 months tenure that the handbook requires is a little inexact. Depending on the year (leap or not), and number of days in each of the months, 4 months can range from 120 to 123 days total (try it in Excel). I would bet he has already met the minimum for this.

Our council's Eagle Application instructions says: "It is BSA practice to assume that all months have 30 days for calculating rank advancement and leadership requirements." That may be true, the Advancement Guide does not say.

I doubt this will be an issue.

I use ASM for Assistant Scoutmaster in normal conversation. Some purists around here go nuts so I used the SA code. Likely the same ones who will make sure you know that while you may have a Venture Patrol in your troop that there is no such thing as a Venture Crew only Venturing Crews.

[diving for cover]

This scout has NYLT as a participant and a Troop Guide. He has also been to NAYLE. His responsibilities in the troop would be to take most of the SM duties in the TLT and to conduct the followup Patrol Leader training we do as a troop.

It is possible that he would be allowed to at least help with IOLS. The District Training Chair is always jonesing for instructors. It was a class at Univ. of Scouting that was lead by a scout that sold me on NYLT, this scout could do the say for others.

I thought it was an interesting thought. But apart from age restrictions the JASM is a SA. SAs are to have that training so why wouldn't a JASM? We sometimes has SPLs come to the Scoutmaster Specific, I understand it is a bit of a challenge for the SM as the SPL starts doing the "aren't we supposed to do this?"

So what training should a JASM take--New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster Specific and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills? Would these carry over if the scout goes on to be a SA when he turns 18?(This message has been edited by jet526)

All your everyday shirts are scout related.

Were waiting for your Scout Shop to open the morning the new uniform went on sale.

You want your patrols to use bell tents because if they were good enough for Baden Powell they are good enough for you.

I'd prefer unit level EBOR. For one, 9 of the Eagles in the district this year are from my troop. We should have 3 more in December, if they finish their paperwork and get with me for their SMC. So unit EBORs would be more convenient personally, not that I mind giving up a night a month for this.

But more importantly, one scout's 18th birthday was 89 days after the District EBOR, making him 2 days short for his palm. His palm was allowed because the date of the the EBOR was beyond his control. If it had been held at the unit level we would have conducted it earlier and there would not have been an issue at all.

It also provides an opportunity for feedback to the unit. This scout was only represented by his parents. If it had been at the unit level we could have talked to the unit leader and encouraged him to prepare his scouts better for the board. Thinking back, there was nothing wrong with this scout that adequate preparation would not have handled. It was very much like a kid going to his first job interview with no coaching.

I don't know of any sports that really teach leadership. Even the team captain rarely actually leads, and then only if his performance is high. Some church and civic groups do, but they also tend to be adult led with little opportunity for leadership. JROTC does teach leadership, but often only directive leadership--with far more issues with bullying.

One thing that Boy Scouts receive that rarely occurs in other groups is the wide varieties of activities that the scout experiences. Scouts experience swimming, canoeing, sailing, scuba diving, whiter water boating, climbing, various back country adventures all while learning first aid, firearm safety, survival skills, cooking, leadership of groups from 5-50. Not to mention the exposure he received with over 100 merit badges. To do and learn all of that would require being a part of dozens of groups.

Bullying is not a part of scouting. That is a problem in the program which should be corrected.

"Negative rights" are rights which permit inaction. You are free to speak, but you are not required to speak and the government is not obliged to provide you a means to speak. The rights laid out in the Bill of Rights are all negative rights that the government is not allowed to interfere with but is under no obligation to provide.

"Positive rights" are rights that require action. You have a negative right to be secure in your person. Make this a positive right would mean that the government is required to provide you the protection needed. Anything can be made a positive right, although you are correct in describing then as entitlements. When something becomes a "positive right" it is at the expense of negative rights.

emb021,

You must be a libertarian.

My biggest concern regarding an Obama presidency is his belief in positive rights. Once you do that then everything becomes a right. Education, food, housing, health care, Internet access, cable television, electric cars and pool cleaning.

Thank you.

Crew21_Adv:

It is likely that part of my reaction was because of the contrast between the candidates. If he had been first I might not have had the same reaction. Of course being late and making us wait for him to get dressed didn't help. I did find his "Public Spectator" merit badge amusing. I'm guessing he was a good kid, but unprepared. Perhaps telling him to come back next month with a list of corrections would have been the thing to do, it certainly would have been educational for him.

I don't mean to speak ill of all LDS scouts and scouters. Some of the best and most dedicated scouters I know are LDS. I'm sure that many of the fine scouts I've met are LDS, it is not like they wear an "I'm LDS badge". (Okay, the orange Varsity loops are a bit of a give away). And it is shameful that the LDS do the heavy lifting for FOS. But there are those units out there that when you see them you say to yourself "Must be an LDS unit", and that is sad. A traditional troop would not last long. I've been in so many training sessions were the answer to "Why are you in scouting?" is "Because my bishop made me" that being a scouting evangelist becomes a major role for the instructor.

I sat on my first Eagle BORs tonight. They are conducted by the district. Two of my scouts were there for theirs and they were short staffed so I sat in on three boards. The first two were outstanding young men and it was a pleasure to talk with them.

When we were done we were asked if we could do one more. We said, "Sure". We looked over the application, project write up and application. The packet was disorganized, water stains on the application and it was clear that the scout used a spell checker but had not proof read his work. Okay, something to mention to him. The project was a weak food and toy drive for a shelter. Useful? I guess, but not much leadership.

We went out to call him in and were told that he had just come from a soccer game (mind you this is about an hour after we started) and he was waiting for his mom to go get his uniform so that he could change. We wait about fifteen minutes for him to come in a be introduced. He gives me an anemic right-handed hand shake. Muddles his way through the Oath and Law and then plops himself down in the chair. Hands stuffed into his pockets and slouched down about as far as he can go without falling off. Ten painful minutes latter we ask him to step outside. The three of us set there in awkward silence for a moment. The board chair finally asks, "So what do you think?" Mind you, I've never sat on a board before tonight. I'm a SM, I don't do boards. I answered him, "If we allow him to be an Eagle Scout then why do we even bother with this?" Neither of the other board members were happy but I was told, "He completed the requirements so we have to pass him". The chair said, "He could have been better but I've seen worse". We had him come back in for a little chat about how he came across not caring about the Eagle and that with it was an expectation that he be an example as an Eagle Scout. We sent him out again and signed his paperwork, called him in with his parents and congratulated him on his Eagle.

Does this happen often? This scout was LDS, and while I don't have a very high opinion of many LDS scouts I found this shocking. I cannot imagine a traditional troop presenting such a scout for his board. I felt like I needed a shower and that the other two scouts' and my son's Eagle were cheapened tonight. I'm not sure what I could do, but I'm not sure I want to ever sit on another board again. If this is typical of LDS scouts then there needs to be an asterisk beside their Eagles.

One thing we did for to force the shared leadership was to put all the meetings for the year on post-it notes on a board. Each family took turns choosing an activity to plan. Once everyone had picked what they wanted, the remainder went into a hat and were drawn until all were gone. It actually worked out well with the families stepping up to do their part. Often a "we need you to do this" works better than waiting for someone to step forward.

No problem.

We also buy them the embroidered neckerchief.

We don't pay for extra mentor or parent pins, either. This has begun to get weird. I have scouts giving mentors pins to mom and dad. Mother's pins to friends of the family. I think one of the up coming scouts is giving out 7 or 8 pins.

If you mean an 18 year old having a his ECOH, I say let him wear the uniform as it is his day. In addition to the Eagle Presentation Kit, I would buy a knot as well. Further if the young man is continuing on as an ASM, get that POR patch and do an ASM investiture ceremony.

This is what we do, although we only get the knot if he is continuing as an adult leader.

Better a scouter with no children in scouting than a helicopter parent that is only willing to be(and may insist on being) an ASM for Huey Jr's patrol.

Some of the scouters I respect either never had or no longer have children in scouts. Give me a fat old guy still willing to ride a sled, paddle a canoe, carry a pack, cross a monkey bridge or climb a tower his scouts have built any day.

I'm not sure how a council could move money from any fundraiser other than Scout-o-Rama ticket sales (funds from which are generally placed in an account held by the council and can only be used to pay council). The money from popcorn sales it given to the unit. The unit then pays the council about 65% of the gross. The unit keeps the rest. If the scout/parent does not give the money from the sale of the popcorn to the unit then the unit is still on the hook for the cost of the popcorn. Failure to turn those funds over to the unit would be some sort of larceny and considering the amount involved could be a felony. It is not her money to determine how it is to be apportioned. If the committee chooses, it could gift money to another unit, in this case about $400. But it would be under no obligation to do so anymore than a business would be to give its profits to a competitor just because a salesman wasn't approved for leave on a given date.

The promise of scouting is adventure.

The reality is often car camping with your mom.

Sewing the patch on the tech pocket is not all that difficult. Even a fat fingers guy like me can do it. I first attached the patch with some fusing tape and then just hand stitched it. It took about 10 minutes.

Ugh to Velcro. It make the patch stick out too far and looks tacky. I can see doing it for those with multiple positions (unit, district, etc.) but even then...

Thank you everyone.

Yes, you would think a bunch of adults could make a budget. I would if I actually had the figures, but at this point I don't. Just some ballpark numbers. Doubling the annual fee would be difficult for many. This should have been worked out back in July so the numbers would have been available prior to popcorn sales. It wasn't. The amount is not higher than what most of you are stating, and I appreciate your sharing with me.

How would this be different from the pancake breakfast we host and which is approved by council?

We have food, they have food

We have entertainment, they have entertainment

We have...no motorcycles, they have motorcycles

Gee, I'm likely theirs more and more.

Be aware that having a CDL makes it so that you cannot take the defensive driving course to handle a traffic ticket.