gcnphkr

Ideally they should be dropping by your unit on a regular basis (once a month or two) to see how things are going, and help ensure you have a quality program.

So is this like the 1 hour a week they told me about.

:-)

That it was a "touchy" situation indicated to me that the "peaceful discussion" had already occurred. I certainly could be wrong.

When I am dealing with my son it can be very difficult to do so as the SM, it is far too easy to be a parent. It generally is not fair to him. I either enable behavior that I would deal with in another scout or I am harder on him than he deserves. My biggest mistakes as a SM have been in dealing with my son. Although, I've managed to make some whoppers that had nothing to do with him as well. But if I make it so that parents and scouts are unable to talk to me about something then that problem will affect other aspects of my performance. Having a leader that you have to walk on eggshells with is not conducive to a healthy environment no matter how well he does other things. If he is touchy about his son then he is likely touchy about his other baby, the troop.

We have this issue in my son's troop and it's the scoutmaster's son. Which makes it a little more touchy to say anything. We've been hoping that the peer pressure would work, but he's pretty oblivious to it

I just do not understand this. If you have the sort of Scoutmaster that either runs interference for his son or that would not allow his son to be disciplined by others then it is time to get a new Scoutmaster.

Isn't the dinning fly little more than a trap with poles? You should be able to get those for $30 at Cabela's. Of course if you get a fancy tarp you could spend up to a $100 for that. I don't know if I see the need for the ridge pole.

I've not found a good alternative to the cook kit. http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___82013 is not bad, but I don't like non-stick coating on camp gear. Things still seem to stick and you can't use sand to scrub it.

Two lessons that everyone needs to learn.

1. If I borrow something and it breaks I have to fix it. It is my fault for borrowing it.

2. If I loan something and it it broken I have to fix it. It was my fault for loaning it to someone who never learned the first lesson.

Of course the corollaries of these are:

Never borrow something you cannot replace and never loan something you will miss.(This message has been edited by jet526)

--Jet, What will you use for this Patrol Leader Training?

The Green Bar Patrol at Inquiry.net: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm They may need to adapt it some, instead of having it on a separate night they may end up having it as a part of the PLC. PLC runs from 6:00 - 7:00 so they would likely extend it to 8:00. If they decide to do it on another night that is okay with me, but parents tend to be more of an issue as you add nights. Also, I would prefer that the SPL be the Patrol Leader instead of me. I want to get the scouts used to adults only being there in a supplemental capacity. That may be too much for the SPL though with his other responsibilities. Long term I could see this being a good responsibility for a JASM.

--Anyone else experiencing a similar situation?

I had two scout attend this Summer as participants and another scout as a Troop Guide (he also went to NAYLE this Summer). They were excited when they got back and believe that they can make the Patrol Method work in the troop. They should be the next SPL and ASPLs for the troop so they will get their chance. There certainly has been improvement in the way all three scouts present themselves and the way they lead. They will be conducting the next TLT. I will only be sharing my vision for the troop, they will do the rest. They will continue through their term with on going Patrol Leader Training.

"Buy a copy of the Scoutmaster-specific training course and read the session on the Patrol Method. The chapter does not even MENTION Patrol Leaders or Scout Patrols!"

Yep. It talks about adult leadership methods (Directing, Coaching, Supporting and Delegating)and the presentation no longer follows the syllabus but goes into EDGE training methods at this point. About as useful as the videos in the course (which at the last district training was the most popular Stop, as in "Stop using those videos"). No wonder scouters don't have any idea of what the Patrol Method is.

Thinking back to when websites were done in Notepad and people actually knew HTML. Am I really that old?

SWScouter,

The son was on a ceremony team. He said they started Friday night from about 6:00 - 10:00. Kept the fire going all night and started in again after breakfast until about 3:00 Saturday afternoon. I may have to go next year just to watch.

oops(This message has been edited by jet526)

I didn't have to re-earn anything. But I was frustated when I went from just a few MBs to a lot of MBs for Eagle and wouldn't have been qualified for Life with the new requirements.

It seems that most are only looking at the BOR as a tool for evaluating the progress of the scouts. This is not the only reason for a BOR. From the advancement guide (page 28):

A periodic review of the progress of a Scout is vital in the evaluation of the effectiveness of the Scouting program in the unit. The unit committee can judge how well the Scout being reviewed is benefiting from the program. The unit leader can measure the effectiveness of his or her leadership.

If only the scouts that are advancing are given a BOR then this aspect of reviewing the program and leadership will be skewed. Six months may be ideal, but impractical. But these talks should not be left to the SM. If the SM is the problem, it is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion.

BTW. The Board of Review Training dates from February 2006.

1) Two-deep leadership: Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older.

I understand.

That the Local Tour Permit is not useful for patrol activities doesn't matter. But the G2SS, the Council's interpretation of BSA policy and the Council's stated policy all require a tour permit whether the tour permit is useful or not. Now they can change their policy, National can change the G2SS. They can revise the Tour Permit. But until one or all of those things happen my unit is stuck having to complete a Tour Permit.

BW,

I absolutely believe that patrols can camp without adults. The problem is that both the G2SS and the Tour Permit have statements that say something else. Additionally we have Council P&Ps that tell me Tour Permits must be filed for all activities outside of the home meeting places. The Council wants a Tour Permit on file. There is not effective method to do this for a Patrol. I asked what I should do. I was given an answer that makes the Council happy in that it gets the permit and allows my patrols to go camping. Simply telling the scouts to go ahead and not worry about a Tour Permit is not a solution unless I has something that specifically says that they can do that. Until I have such a document the patrols will file permits.

If you read the sections of Local Tour Permit you will see several sections that show that it is not an applicable form for a patrol outing when there is no adult supervision.

Which sections would do this? If anything the the text of the Tour Permit is that camping is not allowed without at least two adults: "Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours". The G2SS states. "All Scout groups are required to have an approved tour permit for trips of all kinds". It does not say units but groups which would include patrols. Yes, this is under the caving section, but the idea is that caving is not an exception to this policy.

Since I, nor most scouters have access to BSA P&P we have to rely on what our council tells us. If the council tells us that we are required to file a tour permit for all activities then we need to do that unless we can document that this is not the case. If you have documentation that expressly states that either patrol activities do not require Tour Permits or that only unit level activities require a tour permit then it would be great to have that. Otherwise we have to abide by what teh council says.

Loud Snoring Bear asked: "and how do you deal with tour permits?"

I checked with our council program director. It was a subject that the council had not considered. Here was his advice until the Council Fun Prevention Risk Management Committee could discuss it:

File a tour permit for all patrol activities away from their normal meeting location.

Note on the permit that it is a patrol activity.

Put the Patrol Leader information in the Tour Leader information blanks.

Make sure the Unit Leader or Scoutmaster signs the form.

Vehicle information must be given if transportation is provided to the activity location.

Our troop has about 16 canoes, although a couple need to be sent to the recyclers. We don't use them all the time. For example we did not use them at all last year but we have three or four outings planned for them this year.

Cold water and whitewater are not problems as long as the members are trained properly. Actually, cold water may be safer, the boys who can't seem to keep their canoe upright when it is warm do fine when the water is cold. We do stay in no wake zones on larger lakes and avoid areas with jetskis. Training for everyone includes Safe Swim and Safety Afloat, 3 hours of usage and safety training for the type of craft. Each float also should have adults with CPR training and rescue training for the type of craft. It is good to have multiple people with BSA Lifeguard. Any non-swimmers must be in a craft with a BSA Lifeguard. If you do whitewater then everyone will need to go to whitewater training.

Your council may require that you carry insurance, you need to check with them. The national policy provides secondary coverage.

Note, you are going into an existing troop with an existing culture which may not include paddling. Your scouts may need to do the paddling at a patrol level initially. Rocking the boat by forcing your love for paddling is not in your or the unit's best interests. It should not stop you, just be aware.

You imply that you are currently doing paddling activities as a pack. Unless they are council or district activities you are out of BSA guidelines. That does not bode well for future compliance.

"Racing through the ranks for the sake of getting them is not what the Boy Scout program is about and furthermore, the anxiety created in that race is a detriment to the troop as a whole".

"I havnt been at the last 2 committee mtgs because I have been too frustrated with the way things have been run in our troop and I needed a break."

Okay, something else is going on here and I'm guessing that the frequency of the boards of review is just a side issue where the committee choose to flex its muscles. The idea that a troop needs to pace the scouts is (how can I say this nicely?) a load of gopher pellets. So, if you are up to it, please share the big issue that has you so frustrated.

"What I had done the last 18 months or so of my tenure as unit advancement guy was do a summary Advancement report... I pulled everything from Scout up out of Troopmaster and submitted it."

That is what I do. I print out their advancement history and participation history as well and give it to them at their SMC.

liperazs,

I assume you are in the Grand Canyon Council. They do ask that you provide the letters of recomendation. Providing the letters makes the District Advancement Committee's job much simpler. In the GCC most of the work on the Eagle application process is handled at the district level. Use the forms they have on their Eagle Process webpage, it includes form letters of reference. Also their Excel spreadsheet Eagle Application is helpful and checks for some of the errors that are common on Eagle Applications. I highly recommend it over the PDF application on NESA. If you can, provide them a copy of the application on a CD along with a copy of your workbook. Being able to print out extra copies for the EBOR helps them.

So, do you need to do all of this? No. But a scout is helpful. You will find that whether it is an Eagle Scout Application, college application or a job application the more of the ground work you handle the more likely you will be successful. Right or wrong, submitting an Eagle packet to the District Advancement Committee with the attitude that "Checking the references is your job" may result in a more rigorous EBOR than you desire.(This message has been edited by jet526)

Ideally, a unit would have at least one BSA Lifeguard for aquatic activities. That needs to be renewed every three years. You should also have adults with American Red Cross (or equivalent) CPR and First Aid training. When you get to Boy Scouts or Venturing you can add ARC Wilderness First Aid to the list for treks. But these are all considered optional for individual scouters.

Thank you Highcountry. It is good to get current information. Do you know much about San Isabel west of Pueblo? Odd having a camp without Swimming or Lifesaving MBs.(This message has been edited by jet526)

First, there is no preparation for the Presidency. The the closest you come is being a governor or military commander, but even they pale in comparison. Second, no one can know enough. There is just too much to be an expert on everything. This is why you have a cabinet and advisers, experts in the various fields.

So what is it that "qualifies" a person to be President? Three things are required: a defined set of core convictions to operate from, be able to make difficult decisions and being able to prevail in the face adversity. These are all character issues, experience only allows you and others to see if you have these qualities. Great Presidents have these, poor President don't--actual experience did not matter.

It is clear that Sarah Palin has these three qualities in spades. She has gone up against the party machine and won, she has prevailed in person crisis, she has beaten the oil companies. What more would you like in a President?(This message has been edited by jet526)

The belt fits the old pants, shorts and switchbacks fine.