gcnphkr

One more reason to have the scouts >300 ft away. About the only memories I have of adults on campouts as a youth was that they camped far away, we never visited them and that the CC smoked a pipe.

Recently my son was at a lodge training event. He texted me about adults smoking around the scouts. I told him to either remind the scouter, or ask an advisor to do so, that adults should not smoke around scouts and that smoking is not permitted at that camp (there is a smoking area out in the parking lot). That took care of it for the weekend. But this reminds me that I need to talk to him that courtesy goes both ways. As a scout he should not go hang out in the smoking area and expect the smokers to stop.

Congratulations!

That is long. Regarding confidentiality. I would take that as a restriction on the BOR not the scout. BORs and SMCs are an opportunity for the scout to open up. Sometimes things will be discussed that the scout wants to keep private, but just like a meeting with clergy, lawyers or counselors the subject is always free to discuss what happens.

However, nine separate ECOH's would take an awful lot of energy!

We had 12 earn Eagle in the last year. Seven still need ECOH's. I'm glad some are combined (brothers, best friends). Scheduling them can become a challenge, conflict free dates are hard to come by. But finding a date that also works for out of town guests would be a major downside of a combined ECOH--although if scheduled far enough in advance it should be okay. I must say, it is a good problem to have.

evmori,

You test your seems in the middle of the night?

I find is interesting that so many are upset about this. Yes it will effect many scouters. But putting aside the ambiguity of 30 minutes from evacuation, don't we all pledge weekly to keep ourselves physically strong? I say this knowing that I've at least 80 lbs to lose. I can choose to complain about how this keeps me out of the backcountry (okay, Jamboree, since most are unlikely to be doing much in the backcountry anyway) or use it to motivate me to keep my pledge.

SMEagle.

Boy led troops can be chaotic at times. Parents see that and want structure. I try to coral the parents during times I'm expecting chaos and talk to them then about the troop. While the troop does things to help the packs I tend to focus on recruiting the adults.

One that has not been mentioned is the Scoutmaster Award of Merit. It is not a trivial task to earn and reflects not only on the SM but on his unit in general.

And while not properly worn on the uniform, I like to see mentor's pins. An Eagle Scout saying, "This person helped me become the man I am today", is meaningful. I'll take a mentor's pin over a training knot any day.(This message has been edited by jet526)

"Maybe the idea of eating a half cooked pigeon cooked in newspaper and mud is a hard sell to the youth of today?"

I guess I'm not old enough. Even as a youth I thought of pigeons as flying rats. A half dozen quail or a rabbit on the other hand...

We are having a campout next week and having a bunch of Cub Scouts come along. We are going to have a chicken fry for dinner Saturday. One adult has a couple of chickens that have stopped laying. He asked if we wanted them for the scouts to catch and butcher. I'm good with it, so I asked the ASPL's that are planning then weekend. They said, "We thought about it but decided it would traumatize the younger scouts".

Gunney2862 stated:

Recruiting can feel like a bear in the best of situations, Scouts will sometimes take an option just to show they can, Other Leaders will poach on Packs you have relationships with, Some folks are just overly competitive about the whole thing

So what constitutes poaching and why is it a bad thing for the scout? If Troop A has a program that appeals to 11 year-olds while Troop B is boring why should the Webelos in Pack B only go to Troop B?I'll recruit from any Pack that will let me. I believe we have a great unit and would love to have them join us. But it also does not bother me when the scouts end up choosing another troop. If my scouts are being Den Chiefs, doing ceremonies and otherwise engaging the cubs then why should you expect the scouts to go to your troop?

You might hollow out a place under the car to put the weight. You need to make sure you have clearance. I also drill several small holes in the bottom. Once the car is painted and the main weight is attached you should be a little under 5oz. I then put small wood screws in the holes until I get to exactly 5oz. If you are over on the pack scale then you take out enough screws to get it right. In general, you want the center of gravity as far back on the car as you can about an inch in front of the rear axel.

Wheels. Get extra wheels. Not all wheels are the same. There is even a website out there that tells you the performance of the various molds (the mold number is inside the wheel). You can try different combinations of wheels until the car rolls straight. You can get a short test track at the Local Scout Shop, or roll it down a low incline board with a line drawn down the middle. You want the car to roll straight down the line without pulling to the right or left. This is one of the biggest factors in slowing a car down.

Four is the minimum. That way if there is an injury, one can stay with the injured scout and two can go get help.

I told him that there are many adults in Scouting who would be only too happy to wear the tiny knot if they could go back in time and do some things differently.

I've considered leaving the middle of the bottom row empty for my "Regret Knot".

Perhaps wilderness areas would cover most of it. There may be developed trails but with restricted access and no developed campsites. Of course that covers most of the really cool backpacking areas in Arizona, but evidently nothing in Kansas or Iowa.

I've wondered about this. GTSS and Trek Safely state:

All backcountry treks must be supervised by a mature, conscientious adult at least 21 years of age who understands the potential risks associated with the trek. This person knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the youth in his or her care. This adult supervisor is trained in and committed to compliance with the seven points of the BSA's Trek Safely procedure. One additional adult who is at least 18 years of age must also accompany the unit.

I don't know what constitutes a "trek" as opposed to a "hike" nor what is considered "backcountry". I assume that backcountry involves getting away from any motor vehicle access.

I think the definition in the Individual National Camping Award is reasonable:

What Counts As Camping

Sleeping in tents.

Staying in rustic cabins (no electricity).

Under the open skies.

What Doesn't Count As Camping

Luxury motor homes.

Campers with electricity.

Lodges, motels, cabins with electricity.

Based on this, an Adirondack would be a rustic cabin with no electricity.

Troopmaster has an option to count cabin camping towards eligibility.

Many of us consider the standard from the Camping MB as the definition, but it is up to the unit if they will accept cabin camping or, I guess, sleepovers.

While I agree in principle, it practice I do not see that happening. Plants are easy to do, you can sneak up on a plant. But that is not always the case with animals. For starters most animals are adverse to noisy 11 year olds and the more backwoods you go the more adverse they are. If the scout is good with birds then this would not be too difficult. But apart from a few common birds, most would not be able to get closer than "finch", "owl" or "humming bird". While a naturalist could go out and identify ten animals in a couple of hours and the average woodsman could do it in a couple of days, few scouters, much less scouts, would get past, "cardinal", "robin" and "elk". They may have a whole lot of tracks, scat and sightings with someone in the party saying, "I think that's a red-tail hawk, but it might be a Harris hawk". Whereupon the scouts whip out their handbooks and proudly write down "hawk" or "bird" and the scouter congratulates them on how wonderful they are.

So if they can IDENTIFY them in the wild, then great. But I'd like them to know them well enough to be able to do this when they are in the wild rather than just be shown some elk droppings.

I will need to go back and reread the pages that BW noted in the handbook, but bear with me as I am just basing this on the requirements as written.

First, they state, "Identify or show evidence of". Not name, collect, observe in the wild or be shown. It does not specify how or where they are to be identified--hands on, observation in the wild or naming from pictures. If they can correctly put a name to the plant or animal then they have succeeded.

Second, the identification or evidence is of "ten kinds". I've no idea what "kind" means as it has no scientific meaningful definition. It could be species, order or family. I can only assume that it does not include class as that is the level listed for most of the groups in the Second Class requirement. Is skunk good enough? Or does he have to be able to tell the difference between a striped skunk, a hooded skunk or a western spotted skunk? The requirement doesn't say.

Finally, they need to be either wild animals or native plants. Not domesticated or imported. This can cause issues. Salt Cedar grows wild all over the West, but it is not native. Can that be used? What about apple trees? I'm not sure many scouters could tell you which are native and which are not. What about feral animals?

Needless to say I'm not happy with the wording of the requirements. In practice this is how I handle it: If there are found in the wild in the area then they can be used. Without help, they need to be able to tell me what the plant or animal is. Family or order is fine if that is enough to identify it locally. So "whitetail deer" is OK in Arizona, "deer" is not (there are three species if you include elk) and "_Odocoileus virginianus_" is overkill. So, while taking them to a museum would be a good thing to do, that a lone would not fulfill these requirements. But giving them a test latter where they need to identify ten pictures could.

The problem is too many Scouts who need a POR & not enough POR's to go around! And as, I think Beavah pointed out, this could be a result of employing the First Class First Year program suggested by the BSA. The problem could also be the adult leaders but I don't think this rest solely on their shoulders.

I disagree. Yes, there are challenges that result from a FCFY program. But rubber stamping a POR is the fault of the leaders willing at accept breathing as meeting the responsibility. In our troop the scouts are very aware that there are not enough PORs to go around and that if they are unable, or unwilling to meet their obligation they will be removed and replaced by someone who is.

Regarding filling out the paperwork. 12 Eagle Scoutmaster Conferences this year. There is a huge contrast in the quality of the paperwork that these scouts do. I've yet to see a first draft application that was 100% correct. Some of the project paperwork is very organized while other times it is chaos. Most take two or three passes to get it coherent enough that a board can look at it without excessive effort. But while they may need coaching, there is nothing there that the scout can't do themselves. The only paperwork that I could imagine an adult doing is the application, but that is also about the simplest for the scout to do--give him a copy of the TroopMaster application report and let him fill in the blank.

In case you missed it, another bit of clarification. A SM or ASM is not excluded from sitting on a board for a scout that is not a part of his unit. This might happen with a district or council board.

Thanks, my guess is that no one really cares. Even if it is the case that they should not wear the sash it is unlikely that many would stop. I also doubt that it would convince others that it was okay. If national made a clear statement at best it would just upset some people. It is one of those things, like having Conclave/NOAC/whatever pins on the sash, that everyone will do as they like.

So BrWWW--did you ever hear back from national on the subject?

Even in the old handbooks there is the qualification: "It should only be worn on occasions when members need to be identified as rendering special services." The current handbook has: "at OA functions and special Scouting activities, when members need to be identified as Arrowmen rendering special services."

The logic of both is the same.

It must be an OA function OR (special activity AND there must be a need to be identified as rendering special services)

SO why is it wrong to recognize those OA members whom the troop has chosen as rendering outstanding service to the unit at COHs?

You are likely only wearing it to identify yourself as a member of the OA. This is accomplished by the lodge patch and the pocket device.Wear the sash if you like but know that it is not correct.

See this thread for a lengthy discussion.Eagle92 is wrong, wear the MB sash instead.

Going more for the third option. There have been lots of changes this year. Patrols have been mostly just divisions of the troop with about the only things they did independently was cook and eat. This year we are making a change to really use the patrol method. The scouts seem to like it and the older scouts have made comments along the lines of "Wish we did that when I started." Not a simple task with lots of retraining and culture changes.

I like the FCFY if for no other reason then it has had a big impact on the dropout rate. Last year we lost about 40% of the new scouts, the year before was over 50%. This year, with 14 that crossed over and two that have joined since, we have lost 1 scout and that was because he moved about 50 miles away. They are having fun, learning the skills better than in prior years and are generally excited. It is starting to have an effect on the older scouts. They see a new scout get a rank that they've been dragging their feet on and they start moving again. The goal in not so much that they the get their First Class in the first year, but that they can function as part of an autonomous patrol. Still have a long way to go on that.

In the past scouts would go inactive during 10th grade only to show up again at 17.5 to finish up their Eagle by 18 but not really do anything with the troop. We are now looking at 15-16 and then keeping them active in leadership roles. We'll see how it goes. Fortunately we are very active in the OA which gives them an additional outlet in Chapter and Lodge positions, and several are also members of a crew. There are a few that are concerned that if they get their Eagle at 15-16 that we will lose them for the last two years. To me we lose them anyway, we just keep them on the books. This way they are at least active through their Sophomore year.