Gags

OGE,

I first did the trail up the Sunfish Pond when I was a Webelo - since LNT was mostly unknown at the time, I was able to collect a few cool rock specimens for my Geoligist activity pin along the way. :-)

I've probably done the trail about 3 times, and have also done the "switchback" trail, which I think is the official AT portion, in the interest of saving time. It's a great hike - that was the destination of my first backpacker. We ended up doing a lap around the whole pond b/c my SPL was delirious with a fever and didn't recognize where the campsite was. Ahhh, the good ol' days.

Last time I was there (2 or 3 years ago), the "popular" thing seemed to be to build rock towers in the pond out of the shale/slate. Makes for an interesting shoreline, but does make you realize the impact one person can have, then another, then another...

Have you done much hiking in PA/ Northern NJ? There's a 20 mile segment between 2 camps you can do that has a numbered patch to go with it.

--Gags

I love this program. (I love any program that has maps in it, but that's beside the point). I use it every day for my job, and especially for the size of the program, I highly recommend everyone to give it a shot.

As a caveat, it does not have great resolution for every part of the US. Most areas, once you're down to around 1000 ft altitude, you won't be able to pick out much detail. That being said, most Urban areas have less than 1 meter resolution - which you'd normally have to pay for from Terraserver.com or topozone. Once you have this loaded, check out sites like the Empire State Bldg or Sears Tower in Chicago - you'd almost think you can tell the color of the hair on the tourists heads!

However, in some areas, it has amazing resolution. For some reason, the entire state of NJ has been photographed and made available to a resolution of probably less than a foot (meaning you can see details/objects as small as a foot wide). This is great for me, as that's where I'm from, and I've been able to locate not only the campsites but the lean-to's that we've used as well.

For coast-to-coast picutures, I highly recommend NASA's Worldwind program. This one's a monster, and will suck your computer dry of memory. I use it on a Thinkpad T40 (1.5 yrs old)laptop, and everything else gets noticeably slower. But it's worth it. www.worldwind.arc.nasa.gov . I don't recommend downloading it over a dial-up. The best feature is that it incorporates terrain elevation into the imagery (something GoogleEarth does, but not nearly as well). This allows you to actual tilt the image and see it rendered 3D, using a process called vertical exageration (sp?). The Delaware Water Gap looks a whole lot different when you can actually see the mountains rise up from either side. Unfortunately, it also makes the trail seem that much steeper, but that's another issue.

Oh yeah - you can also switch back and forth from a topo map to a satellite photo.

That's all for now. I'll take off my Geek Crusader cape and return you all to your regular programming.

--Gags

While I'm sure we are all in agreement that fighting is incompatible with the Scout Law, I would also be hesitant to view a fight with ones brother in the same light as a fight between two non-related scouts. As Eamonn mentioned, it could just be an extension of their home environment. While this is still not an excuse, I think it needs to be considered before you implement the third strike and ask him to leave the troop.

Lastly, you may even find out it was the other brother who started the fight, just to get his sibling in trouble.

Just some thoughts to help un-clarify the issue for you. :-)

--Gags

To be honest, I was a little disappointed in the quality of the satire. I was almost wishing it would have been written by "The Onion" staff.

I have to admit, though, that the part about God working out at the YMCA is pretty funny. Goes well with the bit part that Jesus is playing on recent episodes of "Rescue Me" (not a show for the easily offended, btw).

--Gags

To be honest, I was a little disappointed in the quality of the satire. I was almost wishing it would have been written by "The Onion" staff.

I have to admit, though, that the part about God working out at the YMCA is pretty funny. Goes well with the bit part that Jesus is playing on recent episodes of "Rescue Me" (not a show for the easily offended, btw).

--Gags

Here's another article - finally has a somewhat positive tone to it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702251.html

Actually, upon further review - the original story I read is no longer available. They must have updated it with the one at the above link. The original article was titled "Hundreds of Boy Scouts Fall Ill from Heat", the new (or just updated) article is titled "Presidential Visit to Scouts Jamboree is Postponed".

Sorry for the confusion. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it that the newer article is a vast improvement upon the old one!

--Gags

Is there any good press coming out of this Jamboree?

From this mornings Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/28/AR2005072800329.html?nav=hcmodule

IMO, I find the first few paragraphs very misleading. While I'm not quite ready to chalk it up to "liberal media bias" (or LMB in conservative lingo), it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Story summary - 300 scouts treated for dehydration / heat exhaustion.

I was listening to the radio this morning (104.1, a local DC adult/top 40 station). One of the DJ's of course was saying "after 4 deaths, why don't they cancel the event" and "I know one thing, my kid's never going to a Jamboree". Needless to say, for once, I needed no help in waking up this morning. Then of course they follow up these comments with the usual ignorant listener 5 second phone calls such as "I know for a fact that the SM's and higher ups are all staying in B&B's in the area" - leaving the average listener with the impression that it's just 30,000 scouts left on their own every evening after 8 pm.

They even had one of the medics from a Spotsylvania County hospital (neighbor of host Caroline Co) that treated some of the scouts. She lasted all of 10 seconds, enough to say "they were so pale and dehydrated coming in, what were they doing to them out there?". Gee, way to get both sides of the story.

I would have called in, had they not waited until the commercial break to give out their 800# in about .00001 second of air-time, and then played music and interviewed Gwen Stefani for the next 15 minutes.

I'm still waiting to hear one positive story that's hit the airwaves.

On another note - I'm still looking fwd to heading down on Sat for my first visit.

YIS,

Gags

Hi Mark.

I'll start with the obvious question - are you already an OA member?

If you've been out of it for a while, and was once a member in another lodge, there's a transfer form you can fill out to have your membership transferred from your original lodge to the new lodge.

Otherwise, the lodge would be getting a check from someone they don't recognize as a member.

Also, Amangamek is so huge that they actually have individual Chapter meetings, as opposed to a Lodge meeting (although I'm sure they have those too, just not as frequent). Check with Council as to who the Adult Chapter Advisor is, they should be the best source of information for you.

Hope this helps,

Gags

I'm not quite sure how to say this, but is the title of this thread supposed to be play on words, or a just a typo? If a typo, is it possible for a moderator to correct this?

Thanks,

Gags

Student,

Depending on the length of the course, you may be able to get away with a USGS map. However, if a course will be taking them over hill and dale, I suggest an actual orienteering map, of which the most useful feature will be identification of underbrush and/or impassable thickets. A USGS map will not give you enough terrain detail to properly plot a course from point to point.

(Pulling out large 5 inch paint brush labeled "Stereotyping")

I'm going to assume that since you're "Western US", you're in the mountains. Us lowlanders here on the East Coast are used to topo maps with a contour interval of 10 feet (sometimes only 5 along the coast). My maps of Colorado and Yosemite vary from intervals of 20 ft to 50 ft. An orienteering map will be able to show you details of hillside much better than a 7.5 USGS map will.

Here in the DC area, the Quantico Orient. Club has created maps for several local parks, including Prince William National Forest, where there's a permanent course set up with wooden poles scattered around the woods. You just choose a course and pick up a copy of the map at the rangers station, and off you go. The parks by you may have courses pre-established.

But the best advice is to get a local Orient. club involved. Most will be happy to help, and they are already experienced in teaching large groups of novices the basics of orienteering (I hesitate to use the phrase "map & compass" b/c there is a slight difference), which they do at just about every competition. Check the back of your local outdoor enthusiast magazine (usually found on the way in and out of your local camping store).

Enjoy, and don't get lost!

--Gags

This story keeps getting worse: (Sorry for the length - posting the link would eventually just show a new lead story)

MANCOS, Colo. A medical helicopter dispatched from Durango to help search for a missing rafter in Farmington Thursday later crashed en route to an unrelated emergency call near this southwestern Colorado town.

All three aboard the helicopter the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic were killed, according to officials at Tri-State Care Flight, the Bullhead, Ariz.-based company that owns and operates the helicopters.

The cause of the crash was unknown.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Allen Kenitzer said the FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board are conducting the investigation.

Montezuma County Sheriff Gerald Wallace said deputies responded to reports of a helicopter crash at 2 p.m. in a wooded mountain area east of Mancos, near the La Plata-Montezuma county line.

We arrived and found a downed helicopter with three occupants. All three were dead at the scene, Wallace said.

Names of the victims were being withheld, pending notification of family.

The helicopter, which is based at Mercy Medical Center in Durango, was responding to a logging accident near Cortez, Colo., when it went down, said David Bruzzese, a hospital spokesman.

The crash occurred before the helicopter could pick up the injured logger. A medical helicopter from Farmington later transported the injured man, Wallace said.

The helicopter that crashed had been helping rescue officials search for a 15-year-old Boy Scout who was thrown from his raft into the Animas River near Flora Vista earlier Thursday.

It was the search helicopter that eventually spotted Chase Hathenbruck near the Murray Street Bridge in Farmington.

Rescue workers managed to pull the youth ashore but were unable to revive him.

Deputies remained at the crash site overnight to secure the scene for the investigation, Wallace said.

NTSB and FAA officials were expected to visit the crash site today.

Jul 1, 2005, 11:15 pm

I am well aware of how strong a current can be even in the absence of rapids, but are there any whitewater experts out there that could explain how a life jacket could get pulled off? (leVoyageur?) How loose / poor fitting does it have to be? I'm assuming these were NOT the orange "summer camp" style that just goes around your neck. Has anyone seen this happen before?

Thanks,

Gags

I think you could have just made the subject "Troop Committee/Parents Yearly planning session", and it would have the same meaning/effect.

Is there a seperate planning meeting w/ the SM and PLC?

Perhaps one of the questions you could bring up is why are you losing a 15 yr old Eagle? Is he cutting ties altogether? Maybe the rest of the committee will realize what's lacking in the program (Advancement sounds like it's there - they may just need to work on the other 7).

Always easier said than done when you're only one person - but perhaps the MB process would be a good place to start introducing Adult Association to the boys. 6 Methods to go!

Lastly - 7:45 am? How long is this going to take? Will IV drips of caffeine be avaialable?

Good Luck,

Gags

The nearest scout property is Camp Snyder. It's undergoing conversion to a cub world camp, but I think they still allow camping there. Very small property, right off Rt 66, about 25 minutes from the Vienna Metro (1/2 hour metro ride to the Mall/monuments.) You can call the National Capital Area Council @ 301-530-9360.

That being said - Greenbelt is still probably your best option. Or try Lake Fairfax Park in Reston, VA. A little closer in than Snyder. If you're considering hotels, there are several along Columbia Pike in Arlington that are an easy 10 minute bus ride to the Pentagon Metro, and may be within budget. Email me if you need more info.

And bring water. DC humidity has been known to make the toughest men whimper for mercy. :-)

--Gags

I'm thinking of proposing a scavenger hunt for this fall's camporee. I'm running into a mental road block of what they'd be able to find within a few hours of searching. My DRAFT list so far combines both objects and answers to questions:

1. Name of an Eagle Scout who's at the Camporee.

2. Name of an Eagle Scout who was President

3. Leaf Identification: FYI - we're in the Mid-Atlantic region

a. 2 Different kinds of Oak Trees

b. Maple

c. Sweetgum

d. Sassafrass (sp?)

e. Tulip Poplar

4. Evidence of animal life

5. Compass

6. Bowline

7. Canteen

8. Mess Kit (I wouldn't be surprised if this was the hardest object to find!)

9. OA Lodge Flap (still attached to uniform is OK!)

10. Whipped rope

11. Scout belt

12. Wooden tent peg

13. Name of Eagle Scout who walked on the Moon.

14. Reef knot ( sort of a trick question - I need to check the Handbook and see if this is mentioned at all. If not, I'll probably leave it off).

As you can tell, I'm at a loss as to what other nature oriented objects I could have them find. There's not deer antlers laying around out there, no shed snake skins to collect. I defer to the collective wisdom of the forum for assistance.

YIS,

Gags

Thanks SWScouter. That's the info I was looking for - I'm going to assume 10x10 will shelter two scouts. It' now looking more and more like rain - I'm still debating whether to just use plastic sheeting or actual tarps from home depot. I'll take a look at the 4 mil - I've used 2 mil as a groundcloth myself.

Now I just have to find the poles to my own tent, otherwise I'm going to be bringing a tarp of my own. (Always a rude surprise when you reach for your tent bag at the fall camporee and realize it's a little on the soft side).

Tonka,

In my experience, I never brought a gift or card to a COH. Oftentimes, as a troop, it was an effort to get the scouts to show up at all. I did present a gift to one of my best friends when he made eagle, but I was 18 or 19 at the time.

Unless you're friends with the family, there should be no hurt feelings if you arrive with no present or card. If you're still concerned, then as jr56 said, a congratulatory card (with our w/o $) would always be in good taste as well.

--Gags

My troop has been blessed with gorgeous weather the previous 2 times I've taken them backpacking. They ended up just sleeping under the stars.

This weekend, we'll be on the AT from Harpers Ferry headed south. There's a chance of rain Sat night. The boys really don't want to bring a tent, thinking they could just wrap themselves up in a groundcloth if it rains (teenage logic at work).

I'd still like them to bring a tarp to set up, as the shelters are usually full. My question is, what size fits how many boys? i'm thinking an 8x8 would fit no more than 1, due to having to angle the roof for runoff. Does anyone have any suggestions? It's only 4 scouts going, so maybe they could fit under one larger tarp? Not sure how the logistics of that would work, but if they don't want to use a tent, they need to realize the consequences of being prepared with the alternatives.

Thanks,

Gags

Perhaps limiting posting ability to youth only? This would allow the forum to remain "open" for all to read, but keep adult comments out.

On the other hand, if a Scout is motivated enough to not only find this site, but also be interested in discussing scouting topics in a msg board environment, then I'm inclined to assume that they're mature enough to participate in our (usually) adult discussions.

The other question I would have is what topics would they be discussing here that is not offered elsewhere? Has anyone ever received feedback from a youth who wanted to post but was too intimidated by the rest of us 'ol folks?

If we're (or I should say, If Terry) is trying to encourage more scout input, perhaps putting a paragraph or two in the FAQ, or even locking a post to the top of the forums with a title of "Youth posters read here first", could alleviate any worries about contributing their view.

I think the idea of a youth forum is a good one. But IIRC, the posts made by new youth members tend to be along the lines "how do we get rid of a SM?" or something similar. Come to think of it, that could be the majority of adult postings as well. So much for that example.

I'll stop writing in circles and just ask - if we limit the forums to youth only - do we lose the valuable input of those who try run the program correctly, but can't pass this information/experience on to the Scout who posted?

Thanks for reading this far down in the post!

--Gags

So 2 scouts leave the campsite, with the SM's approval, obey his instructions to be back by 12:30, and suddenly they're not only getting a "reputation" with the Troop Comm., but the DC (or is it UC?) is putting the thoughts into peoples heads that barring them from Summer Camp is justified?

Am I a little slow today or is there more to this story? What rule were they breaking?

--Gags

Annie,

To answer your basic question - yes, that bag should be fine for all kinds of winter camping. Qualofil isn't the "greatest & latest" technology anymore, but it's still better than the rectangular $20 "sleep-over" bags. Since price is a concern (as it is for I think everybody), $50 sounds like a good price for a -5 deg bag.

Now for the variables:

If you son is still on the "small" side, be aware that a full size adult sleeping bag can leave unwanted space at the bottom of the bag that can fill with colder air. This can probably be solved by just stuffing tomorrow's clothes in the bottom.

Sleeping pad - you can spend $10 - $100 on sleeping pads. The beauty of it is that you'll stay just as warm with a $10 close cell foam as with a luxury thermarest close cell / air mattress combo with 3 inches of comfort for $100+. Pad's can get expensive in a hurry. Walmart/Target or any outdoor store should have these pads. Close cell foam is just a 1/2" or so of "squishy" foam, similar in size but thicker than a yoga/exercise mat. Comfort isn't a big factor for 11 year olds (that what leaf beds are for underneath the tent). What you need it for in the winter is to reflect your body heat back up at you, and reflect the cold back into the ground.

Before this gets too long, I'll just add one more suggestion. See if you can buy a bigger stuff sack than came with the bag. 11/12 year olds have a very difficult time putting a sleeping bag into a stuff sack. In fact, the biggest hold up (for me anyway)during backpacking trips in the mornings is waiting for the kids to pack up their sleeping bags. Especially a -5 deg bag. It will be big. He'll need help. You can always get whats called a compression sack. Once he gets the bag stuffed in, there are straps around the outside that will be easier to cinch down (and compress the bag)than trying to stuff the bag back into it's original stuff sack. Just something along the lines of not setting the kids up for failure.

You won't necessarily need another bag for summer. Just lay on top of the winter one, and bring a sheet or two for cover.

Holy cow this turned into an essay. Best of luck on your purchase. And if you have the brand name, I'm also curious as to what it is.

Cheers,

Gags

Take Canoeing out of the first year. The non-swimming aquatics badges are enjoyed the most around the 3rd+ year of camp, in my exp. 11 & 12 yr olds don't have the strength to handle a canoe by themselves (and most will have trouble with a partner).

Lifesaving at year 2 - only if he's on a swim team. Again, I'd put this off another year mostly b/c it's a demanding requirement.

Rifle shooting - find out the kinds of sights they use. They actually use scopes @ our latest camp. I don't think anybody in the entire camp failed to qualify that week. It may be a good badge for a 2nd year scout.

YIS,

Gags

FB: "is a Red Ryder Super Delux BB gun. "

You'll shoot your eye out! [big black boot descending towards camera] Ho....Ho....Ho....

There may be a Metrobus route that goes by the park entrance that can also take you to the Metro. But in the interest of saving time, driving to the Metro is your best bet, especially since parking is free on weekends.

You don't say from which direction you're coming from. There are several campgrounds within a 10-15 minute drive from a Metro in Virginia as well.

Pohick Bay Regional Park has a youth group campground with showers and all. (should be www.nvrpa.org/pohick) Used to be the NCAC's (National Capital Area Council) Camp Wilson. They sold Camp Wilson and Camp Roosevelt to buy Goshen (down by Lexington) way back when. (Useless trivia fact of the day for you).

Pohick is about 10-15 minutes from the Springfield Metro, which is the end of the Blue line. Greenbelt NP is in MD, almost the end of the Green Line.

Lake Fairfax Park (Fairfax County Park Authority)is located in Reston, again about 10-15 minutes from the West Falls Church Metro (Orange Line).

It depends on where you're coming from as to the best place to stay. Send me an email if you require any specifics or suggestions.

Gags

CJGags@yahoo

I was with Troop 53 in Fords (Woodbridge Twp.) Yes, our claim to fame is that McGreevey used to be our mayor. But that's a topic for "Issues & Politics".

I gotta' say - compared to camping in northern NJ, the Pine Barrens can't be beat for feeling like you're in the middle of nowhere. (should that be 2 words???).

Gags