Fuzzy Bear

Scouting, what are the benefits? Age 13, what are the benefits? Characteristics first Boys this age cannot see past the end of the school year. Boys this age have begun a new phase of sexual development. Boys this age are social. When a young person of this age has learned the basic understanding of what is happening to them and if they have developed enough inner strength to contend with these pressures, then they can accept longer term goals. Even this is limited by the person's perspective that life goes on forever and immediacy is all there is to life. The benefits of Scouting are immediate, like camping and fun activities. To an 11 year old, it is heaven but by the time a Scout reaches 13, the new has begun to wear thin. Part of the developmental phases in Scouting has to do with taking more leadership roles as the Scout matures and increasing the complexity of the camping experiences. It is my observation that advancement follows roughly the same contour. If it is done too quickly, then it becomes a burden and loses its appeal. When advancement is overemphasized, then it becomes the goal. It should be an outcome of growth in Scouting rather than the end. Another benefit of being 13 is that the world becomes bigger and more activities are allowed. Such things as Church, sports, the Order of the Arrow, and friends now may be taking the place of the joy of Scouting. This is a good thing, of course, the idea is to learn balance instead of focusing on one thing to exclusion of all else. This is a life long skill that helps a person adjust to the many changes in the world and work, school and leisure. Accepting that a person is no longer a child which begins around the age of 13 has a lot to do with learning about service and the benefits of service. Accepting that a person now will be an example to others is a big step. Many do not understand or accept this idea but it is part of Scouting. Service for the sake of doing good, the Good Turn, is not something that is easy to learn or accept. The value is very hard to understand because it is complex. We do not always see the benefit of a service project. It is important to bring Scouts back to the scene of their service to show them the results. Many times it is astounding. Some times it is minimal because even service projects need time to mature. The overall mission of Scouting is to instill the values of Scouting. These are large goals and need allot of time and effort to develop. If we focus on attaining the goals of the Scout Oath and Law, then we can learn to be patient when teaching. When faced with a challenge, we must ask ourselves, which value have we learned today rather than think of the immediate failure before us. We can share those lessons with our Scouts and sons. It is important that the example we set as an adult, a Scout Leader, an Eagle Scout is that of the Law and the Oath, always. FB

PS I would love to say that I have absolute faith but I fear that it would only be for some of the time. FB

OGE, I have just finished the winter wood cutting myself and will need to sharpen the saw teeth, change the oil and make a few repairs to the saw. I had just dropped one fairly large dead tree and it landed into a nearby tree. I cut it again about four feet off the ground and it swung a little closer to the other tree. I cut it again and again each time trying to get it to fall. It just kept getting closer. Finally I saw that one good push would bring it down, so I laid the saw on the ground and pushed. Sure enough it fell and, of course, it fell right on top of the saw breaking the bar from the bottom housing. It is still usable but my pride in preparedness was broken. I decided it was time for a break so I sat on a large rock and began musing about the BSA, much like you. Sometimes, I think that things are really bad because I am so much more aware and skeptical as an adult than as a youth. I also find individual Scouts all of the time that just need that little extra attention that makes them take off in the program. I find that so many excel in spite of what we do or what we think we should be doing. I recently sat on an Eagle BOR and listened to three Scouts that were the best examples of an Eagle that anybody could possibly find. I was amazed by their intelligence, insight, and adventurous spirit. All these Scouts were so industrious and each had worked right up until they were almost 18 I am not trying to say that all is well but things are never all well. Steven S. could make a movie right here today and find so much material to work with and it would all be true. I doubt kids would then march into the arms of Scouting even if it won all of the academy awards for the next year. I know that some kids would find some programs to be less than what they should be but then there are some programs that are more than we could believe. We might even capture the imagination of a number of Scouts that would grow up and become adult Scouters. Well, I could go on but it is time to pick up the pieces of my saw and get on home. The foliage has begun to green and thicken. My work here is done pretty much for the winter. I will get back out in the fall for more of the same. (*I love it.) FB

Trevorum, (*you may have to forgive my enthusiasm) You know, I can state pretty much that I grew up in Scouting. I started in Cubs and graduated from Boy Scouts into college. I obtained Eagle and paid my way to Philmont. I was voted in to the Vigil and I learned Indian Dancing and built my own costume. There were so many exciting things that came my way in Scouting that it is difficult to list them. My Dad didn't enter into much of what I did as a youth but his work allowed me to live and be able to do some things that many might not have been able to do. I am grateful to him for looking out for me and my brothers and our Mother. All of that to say that Cub Scouts stayed in my blood after all of these years. I still have my Wolf Cub book and I have found that I learned or started to learn many things that began for me right there. I am not sure of the reason that I found those achievements to be so exciting but they were. I learned to collect things and build some things and to talk to my parents about some things. Sometimes, I take my Cub books out and the ideas just flow all over me about things to do and I am an adult! I am unsure if other Scouts get that excited about the program but to me it was the best. If I had stopped at any point along the way, I am sure that other things would have taken its place but even with all that I did it was not enough. I never could figure out what other kids were doing because later on there was just a minority of older youth left in Scouting when I was a senior. I just knew that I had found something that was of great worth. Scouting as an adult really began when I went to WB. I know it is a term used by some in the Church but I felt like I was "reborn". That was when things got really exciting for me. I can testify that it is a great program where ever we stop or start. FB

NJS, You are right that a person does not have to belong to a Church to be in the BSA. I was attempting to say that the BSA does not want to become the chosen place of worship and would reject such an objective. Let me try to explain my explanation: Religion is personal, people believe that their God is the one and only God and this alone has has lead to much division and continues. This is easily shown by history, present day news reports and in this forum. The BSA's policy is not for the expressed purpose of worshiping God like a Church or an organization that worships God. The BSA's policy is more like an umbrella for people to come together that has some concept of God. The BSA's policy makes their organization available for all those that believe in a God to come together. This can only be accomplished in a non-denominational way (*watered down). The BSA's policy about God is one with a noble motive. The BSA does not want to become the organization for the purpose of worshipping God. The BSA continually refers Scouts to their Church or their parents for their answers. People that have no God, question the existence of a God, or do not have an organized way to find their answers or worship their God would find that the BSA does not fit their spiritual needs or lack there of and the policy would be contrary to that person's personal beliefs. This same policy, no matter how noble, has become the subject of several lawsuits because of several reasons stated elsewhere in this forum. I apologize for the confusion. FB

Part of being a human and a Scouter, I have found myself sometimes angry or wrong or both. I try to use the backspace button but sometimes my fingers override my Scout Laws. It is at that point, I try to use my request for forgiveness button. With all of my failings, I will need to keep those buttons for the future closer at hand. I wish it were not so. I will try to do better. FB

I have been a teacher in a program where I had young people that were Scout age but all of them had some kind of problem(s), any combination of intellectual, behavioral or emotional. We had several problems over the years. I was generally able to find the culprit to most of the "crimes" committed. They always waited until I was out but they always had witnesses. These students were not Scouts but most had a sense of justice, fairness, and truth. Once I understood what had occurred, I would take several suspects into the hall one at a time and question them. They were told not to talk when they reentered the classroom. They always talked when they returned and before they left the hallway. I would finish with the investigation and most of the time, I would have it narrowed down to the perpetrator and the witnesses. These students always talked even though they were sworn to silence. They talked because I shared leadership of the program with them, much like Scouting. They talked because these "bad" kids have a sense of rightness. Once I knew who, then we started restitution and/or the punishment phase. As Scoutmaster, I made several mistakes in dealing with similar problems. One important thing is to narrow it down to the suspects as quick as possible. The more time that elapses after the event, the more time that people have in coming up with different stories to separate themselves from the event. You can still figure it out because most give clues and contradictions in their stories, which is your job to listen carefully and use accordingly. If you can figure out who, then tell him that he will need to speak with his parents and to the CC later. Try not to put yourself in the position of being the one who does the punishment. Find out the total cost for fixing the machine and for replacing the contents and any money that may have been taken. Restitution will need to be completed and any punishment that the CC deals out before moving on. The Scout will need his parents along during this phase. This was not a mistake and don't call it one. It may be a symptom of other things. It may be a learning experience but it certainly merits swift action. The other Scouts will understand when they see the machinery in place and it will reduce the occurrence of similar things in the future. Young people talk and remember. FB

According to the book of Acts, people that were already followers of Jesus did not refute what they experienced, which gives you the stronger argument. A blessing was given to those that did not experience those events and yet believe. I appreciate that your belief in faith as being 100% or 0. I do not believe the same as you do about those attributes of faith. According to your definition, Huxley a skeptic and I would have no faith and would be considered having the same label. The criteria of experience you set have long ago passed, so we would have little chance of ever finding that faith. FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

Blade, I want to apologize for my statements that offended you and anyone else in your Church. I was attempting to say that I know little about the present day Catholic Church but what I saw from a distance of the Pope was that he was a great person. Your assumptions about me in regards to the Evangelicals, etc., missed your intended mark. I have many other failings that you may wish to elaborate on. FB

Semper I misunderstood your original message thinking that you were concerned with personal perception rather than with policy. But you have restated it as a concern with the policy, meaning you believe that the Church does a better job with the idea of God than the BSA. This makes it a better and more involved question. I believe that we cannot get away from our personal perception of the one True God idea because of human nature; we personally believe we are right. The BSA attempts through policy to bring people together under an umbrella that most would normally find it impossible to do so any other way. The BSA has very rightly identified the perceptional error and has given it a policy instead of an organization. The BSA has simply pointed people in the direction of their own personal God and has told them to stand by those principles but within their own organization outside the BSA. The BSA does not attempt to take over the work of the Church but points individuals to their own Church to follow those principles on a daily basis. I believe that to be a genuinely inspired thought. The next idea that some might want is to make the BSA a proving ground for finding God. This is a high ideal and one worthy of consideration but it is wrong. The reason is the BSA does not nor should not take the place of ones worship. The BSA wants people to bring their own personal God to the organization and learn the expression of good works for others in general and not directed just towards those we find agreement. This gives a generous face to the policy, one that is worthy of a parable. Those that have no religion or God would find this type of policy empty and contrary to their own belief because the policy is founded on a faith in a God and the use of an organization/Church to express that faith. The BSA policy is based on one bringing ones personal God to the BSA but watering it down so as to be able to be with others that may have a totally different concept of God but then the policy wants each one to return home to practice their own faith. A person that does not have a God might have any organization to express their personal beliefs and would find all of the watered down talk about God as disrespectful. It would be disrespectful and that is the reason why an agnostic or atheist would not be a good fit for the BSA policy. Note: The Roman trial(s) of Jesus found him not within the proper jurisdiction and not guilty (they used the Rule of Law); the trial by Caiaphas pronounced him guilty but was illegal within their own system of jurisprudence and everyone present knew their own many violations. This is not just sour grapes; investigate just a little bit more. No matter what the verdict, the judgment could not be carried out without a Roman trial. He was then inexplicably offered up for a holiday release instead of being openly released by reason of innocence but lost the voice vote to Barabbas. It was politically expedient to wink at Jesus' innocence to gain favor all around and get rid of a nuisance. (*a win-win situation) FB

People can be confused by the policies of the BSA but the policies are there in B/W to be read. Many of the policies are taught in training sessions. Most of the policies are recited and memorized. I am certain that some miss the policies even after all of the attempts have been made to teach and to learn them. I am uncertain how to make the policies known 100% of the time but I stand by the point that they are not hidden. As for Thomas, he believed in God. He did not believe in the resurrection. That did not make him an agnostic but a skeptic. As for Missourian's, they are not necessarily Agnostics but skeptics, just like Thomas. Part of the book of Acts is a proof for Jesus life over death. This account was also used as an early proof to establish a controversial first century doctrine of the Trinity. Huxley could have stuck his hand in Jesus' wound just like Thomas was asked but Huxley would have needed more proof to say that Jesus was God and that God was God. Huxley would merely have said that Jesus was alive and would have questioned the crucification. FB

Blade, I base my opinion on the Catholic Church from what I have observed from a distance. I have never been a member and I know very little about it other than what I stated. I have always heard only negative things from the Protestant Church and from many who used to be in the Catholic Church over the years. The Pope was a person that rose far and above anything that I have ever known about the Catholic Church. He touched my heart. FB

Your loss of sleep indicates guilt for doing something wrong or not doing something right. So, your statements must not give us the full story, no matter how hard you worked. Whatever you did/didn't gave you the sense that somehow you are responsible even with the lack of parental support. But, I don't think that is what you really mean. For the last several years in Scouting, I have attempted to work with a group of people on the objectives and goals. That means that the Scouts and the parents come together to do Scouting as a whole set of activities. Advancement is not the one and only objective but it is one of the objectives. Scouting is much greater than any one of them. One person can fail one objective in a group but the joy of the achieving the other objectives within the greater group makes it easier to accept. I find that since there is more than one objective, we can find success easier and have more reasons to celebrate more frequently. The overreaching goals of participating citizenship, fitness, and character development are the mission. It is just that so often we make it our duty to point to a badge instead of a person's heart and describe how it has changed because of the program. Twenty years from now, some will still say that, I am a Second Class Scout. I wished that I would have made it to Eagle. You will hear that said right here in this forum. There are ones that tell you how their life has changed because of the program. These are the ones that have actually found the value of what we are doing. Few will say that they learned to be a participating citizen and that they are fit and that their character has developed fully and rightly. Maybe that is too hard to say but that is where we are attempting to go. FB

Eamonn, You just tried to wish it all away. I am not sure but I think that is a first, at least here. Just as a reminder, there are better alternatives. FB

Most may have thought it was just another question for discussion.

Pope John Paul II did not win me over to Catholicism. I disagreed with many of his policies. I saw him only from a distance even when he traveled to the USA. I read little of his writings. I have always regarded the Catholic Church and the hierarchy as some kind of a big business with huge ornamented buildings with little use other than an occasional festivity. With all of my many flaws, even I can still recognize greatness and appreciate it when I see it. He possessed such qualities in abundance. FB

I guess it is time for a sermon from a most unreligious person. I grew up in a church and loved God. I asked questions and wound up wanting to become a minister but people from another religion told me that I did not believe quite right. I listened and followed but then there was another church that told me the same. This kept on for years as I moved from one church to another until I had enough. These churches not only held to the maximum that only they possessed the one and only truth but went to great lengths to prove that others could not possibly have any truth. As I reflect on each of them, I still find each one to be quite believable. I then began my quest to find out for myself and what I found was not pretty. I did find the fairy tales and the problems. I found that many have tried to rewrite history to fit their take on God. I wished I had room to write the words that confirmed the one thing that had stayed with me to this end and that was my initial love of God. It is somewhat without explanation but I have found God over and over in so many unexpected places that it is as if someone was trying to cover up the rays of the sun but the light still pours through every crack and seam no matter how hard anyone tries to stop it. I couldn't find God through all of the truth and proofs. I simply couldn't deny God through all of the fakery and sham. I can say that if anyone doubts, all they have to do is to look and pay attention and God will be there. Some have tried to say that they found God in the BSA and rightfully so. You can't help to feel God when you are out up to your hips in nature. God's cathedral of the sky is but one step into a limitless night beyond all of our dreams. FB

I would like one more run at this. *This is a general statement and not directed at this column only. IMHO, it is mostly the parents that have the rights in this situation and not the Scout. I agree that the Scout may or may not be able to define his belief in God or a Higher Power or if he has a duty and if so, what it is. Now, this does not mean the Scout is lower functioning and it does not mean that all Scouts do not know how to define God or a Higher Power at that young age because some do and some will know their duty, others won't. When there is a question like the one stated in this column, then the parents must make some decisions for themselves as to how to help answer this question. To disqualify a Scout from the program for lack of knowledge would leave too many questions and too few answers. The parents are the ones that were not fully informed from the start and if they were not, then they were certainly confused. They need to have the application read to them. They need to read the Cub Promise and discuss it to make sure that they understand all of the Scout program and not just the parts that they feel comfortable in accepting. Now, all of that seems silly but I have a friend that brought his son into the program and later left because of the issues of God and homosexuality. He feels that the Scout program unfairly discriminates against his beliefs and he believes that the Scouts are not a good example of an American institution because it does so. He feels that the government should not back such an organization and is indignant about this situation. I must admit that he has a point but playing soccer was his answer for him and his son. Another problem that I did not point out to my friend was that he had been in the BSA as a youth and he had to have known the policies even then. When he returned as a father of a youth, he must have thought that even though the policies had not changed, they must have somehow been selectively deleted because of time or maybe somebody had "wiggled" around the policies for him as a youth. I don't know but he had rediscovered the policies and then got out. He and his son were hurt nonetheless. Just a very few years ago, these issues were generally not acceptable and such an argument would have had little ground for validity or question but with all of the changes and shifts in the laws, the ground of thought has also changed. Maybe the BSA is behind the times on these issues but they have made it clear in writing, followed with words, and then deeds what it is they believe. There is nothing that can be construed as being hidden about the ideals and goals of the BSA. It may be that people will need to seek out other organizations, like my friend and his son for their leisure time activities because of these ideals. I personally dislike it that we must separate ourselves like this because it doesn't seem Scout-like but then I do not get to make the rules either. When I said that all would be hurt all around, I can point to numerous instances in my own experience where people were left out for these reasons and for other reasons where blatant discrimination that had nothing to do with BSA policies but with people/Scouters being unkind and unthinking of others. When we find that we must give reason to separate ourselves from others we must do it slowly and with the utmost of respect for the other person's beliefs. We must also be very careful so that we don't carryover the reasons to separate ourselves as being a way to validate other reasons to separate ourselves. We must find ways to bring people to a common ground with every opportunity. FB

I started my collection of Scout books by accident. I crawled into an attic to look at the construction of the roof of a rock house that was being torn down. My first treasure was delivered up from the mice. I began to look around to find more, once outside the attic, and thirty years later, I am still looking. I have completed a couple of series and filled a cabinet with many different types and kinds. I have been into Thrift stores, collectible shops, Ebay, old garages on the side of the road that had boxes of books, etc. When I travel, I take along a flashlight because most of these things are found somewhere in the darkness. I have bought them for a dollar or 50 dollars, depending on the quality, dust jacket, or number of mouse bites. Trading with Scouts is out because few, if any have them. I have traded, bought, sold, given, and received books from dozens of Scouters across the country. I have made friends with some of the most unusual and unique people and Scouters while doing this. Now that I think about it, I owe my collecting bug to a few of the Scout requirements. My first Cub Scout requirement was to fill an egg carton with 12 rocks. I still look for unique rocks and still collect them wherever I go. I no longer put them in an egg carton. For my Boy Scout coin collecting MB, I started with a penny collection. I first found that the dates are sequential and you stop collecting when all of the dates are in the book but then there are the different mints and later I found there are the condition of the coins to consider. I have quite a penny collection to date. I owe all of this to Scouting. It has been one of the most interesting and fulfilling adventures that any guy could have in life that is besides all of the other stuff. Have I encountered people along the way trying to make a living or extra money doing these things, sure! They have their own demons to fight and I hope the best for them. I really have my hands full trying to keep me in line. FB

The uniform washes and wears easily even after being worn on a campout. The failure is then only a perceived one but is easily rectified. One can even take a shower in it but the uniform then must be taken off to be ironed. It is also possible to continue wearing it after the shower and to "walk it dry". FB

Lighting does occasionally strike twice in the same place and sometimes it hits the same object that has moved from the original spot of first strike, of course it may be thought that it is a different bolt of lighting that did it. We would then be able to say that the same bolt of lighting never strikes the same object twice. We can also say that the same bolt of lighting does not strike the same object in the exact same place at any time but when it comes to being struck by lighting once the second hit generally is thought of as being inconsequential if the object is a human and if the lighting puts an end to said person. Lighting does not originate from the air and travel to the ground but the other way around. So, lighting does not really hit us as much as travel through us. We are more of a conductor for the electricity. Either way, the end result is most unpleasant and should be avoided. (So wear very thick and dry tennis shoes.) Now, the question is, if lighting strikes a tree in the forest with a resulting snap of air molecules and we are camping in another forest miles away from said lighting strike, then does it really make a sound? Answer: Only if it wakes me up. The Motto of the Lighting Patrol- Thunder, Thunder, Thunderation! This can also be worked into a chant using clapping and stomping and a few more words. The Slogan of the L.P.- In a shower, don't stand out! The yell of the L.P.- Whap, Snap, Crack, and Pop! The L.P. Song- To the tune of "Rainy Days and Mondays get me down", especially if I get struck by lighting. (words to follow) FB

Vicki, It appears that this issue was obvious for several years and nobody wanted to talk about "the elephant in the living room". It is also not a matter of "booting" somebody out but bringing their attention to the Ideals of Scouting and allowing the person/family to settle this issue for themselves. No matter which direction this answer goes, there will be hurt feelings all around. It is most unpleasant and unavoidable. FB

NJ wrote, "In the end, that is what I think will determine the issue: Whether the government's actions can be seen as an endorsement of the BSA's policies." Since the government and the BSA agree about their policies regarding God, look in your wallet, listen to Congress open their sessions; I would assume that their backing will continue. As far as discriminating against homosexuals, the military continues their, Dont tell or ask policy, which is covert discrimination. Congress and the military may not discriminate the same way that the BSA does but there are similarities. The BSA is a softer target. If the government does not endorse the BSA policies, then they would be remiss not to change many of their own actions but most likely they wont which will be to miss the example that is being made of the BSA. FB

The Mother approved the discussion that she had earlier disapproved. The DL first said he "wanted the Scout to advance" and now it appears the Mother wants the Scout to advance also. The Dad appears to be neutral but supportive of the advancement issue. I have accepted it all along that the Scout wanted to advance. There appears to be confusion on everyones part about the BSA's position on advancement and the religious requirement. As I see it, the issue is not on advancement and should not be confused with it. The issue is about respecting a family's right to their beliefs. If we violate the right to their belief system, then we will eventually fail to protect the rights of others that do not believe a certain way. It needs to be pointed out that a belief in a Supreme Being is the policy of the BSA. It is not a debate and it is not a discussion that is needed about how to abridge that policy. We seek to inform people at the time of application and at each stage of the process, especially when the ideals are stated on a frequent basis. When a family or an individual must endure the constant usage of the Ideals, then we have abridged the right of the individual to believe otherwise and in essence have hurt them in a spiritual way. The goal of Scouting is not to proselyte or convert people to a belief in God and should not be used to do so. It sounds like a good secondary gain to use it as thus but it abridges another basic right and that is one to be truthful. If a person feels lead to convert an individual outside of Scouting, based on their personal belief, then it should be done as a believer, not a Scout(er). Some believe that using the process of argumentation to sway a person to believe in God is the best method to do so. Most of the time, it creates an enemy and few times brings one to God. God changes a person's heart not because of us or the arguments that we use but God changes the heart in spite of our feeble efforts. Respecting and protecting the family's right to their personal beliefs is the issue and not advancement nor keeping quality leaders in the unit. If they decide to separate themselves because of their beliefs, it is always done with sadness and regret but is necessary. None will escape the hurt. FB

He pointed us towards God. His message was understood and accepted. As he departs homeward, he returns as one that completed his mission. The blessing given is one that will remain.