fred johnson

"Lied to the committee" ... Sometimes it's a viewpoint issue and sometimes it's a shade of truth.  Perhaps he meant he was about to do something and did not correct himself.  Perhaps he thought he was correct but wanted to not emphasize something. Perhaps ... "Lied" is often thrown out too quickly and the situation needs to be understood better.

Parent getting physical with troop leaders ... Yeah, this would be a stopping point for me.  When that happens (or even close), trust is lost and safety is a concern.  Perhaps time passing and tempers will cool.  But if not, the family needs to go elsewhere.  This is clearly one of my personal thresholds.  

I used BSA pre-made ones in three dens.  Sometimes they worked.  Sometimes not.  It really depended on the dynamics of the den and our ability to stay organized.  But generally, yes.  I like them better than almost any other method.  I also liked to have the cub check things off when we were able to do that.  I like it when we used the books more and signed in the back and then kept the chart synchronized.  

I liked it mostly because it let the cubs see their own progress and where they were.  

I'm not sure now with it relative to ScoutBook, etc.  

Personally, I'd make the decision based on what you think will make the best and most exciting, inspirational experience for your kids.  If that's transforming your existing pack into a fresh, energetic, busy pack, then great.  If it means joining another pack, that's fine too.

A few notes

• Your kids are only young once and their time in scouts is short.  
• Scouts is best with friends.  
• Socializing and working together is a key part of scouting.  It's not really scouting if your kid doesn't regularly interact with other scouts.   
• You will spend a lot of energy fixing the existing pack.  
• Cub scouts takes a lot of adult energy.  You will need help.  You won't succeed if others don't help. 
• Driving a long way to another pack can be tiring and cause issues in itself.  

14 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

... I remember "back in the day" when Eagle and Girl Scout Gold was a checkbox on many college applications, but today ? ...

Recover the value loss, recover the pride.

Yeah ... Three responses ...

#1  The term rose colored glasses exists for a reason.  The past is rarely as good as we remember it.   

#2  The issue is not a BSA thing and much more larger trends.  Helicopter parents.  Grade inflation.  Building the resume.  Legalism.   Plus, schools and youth programs are much better now at teaching the basics that scouts cover and now makes scouts look fairly light weight.  Better schools.  Better exercise.  Chasing achievements.  

#3  When I look at my oldest, I see a man who was very much burnt out on scouting when he was 18.  Extremely burnt out.  Now in his upper-20s, he wants to return to scouting and often channels the values of citizenship, leadership, physical fitness, etc.  I was shocked recently when he was talking about whether the local scout camp could use some volunteer hours recently.  I was wondering if this was my kid.  

I  am glad to see scouts earn Eagle who may be tripping and falling over the finish line.  It's not just for the strongest runners.  To be honest, the strongest runners probably won't need the Eagle rank.  But many of our scouts benefit when reflecting on themselves, their values and their values of how to lead their lives.   IMHO, it's unproductive (politely said) to focus on who should earn it and let's focus more on helping every scout achieve it ... if that's their path and goal.

Plus ... if you really want Eagle to be meaningful ... Get it off the college application check box.  Stop ranking up enlistees because of it.  Get it off the resume.

33 minutes ago, FireStone said:

... Scouting shouldn't feel like school. ... 

I think this is key to making a good scouting program.  Scouting isn't school.  It's not pretend military.  It's groups of kids that WANT to GET TOGETHER to DO THINGS.

• WANT <-- their choice
• GET TOGETHER <-- They want to see their friends
• DO THINGS <-- They want to do things with their friends.

I really fear missing any piece of that.  If we kill their want or their being together or doing things, then we damage the program.  Our scouts have some great memories and most of those memories are from doing things together.  

I'm finding everyone in the troops I'm associated with are pretty accepting of the idea and that it's just not that controversial.

1 hour ago, cocomax said:

. . .  and the boys all say they will quit if the girls show up. . . 

I fear boys reflect the adults.  Negative adults will create negative youth. 

11 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Obviously, there are not a high number of girl-centric patrol patches already in existence (though I did surprisingly find a Power Puffs Girls cartoon patrol patch called Cartoon Power on Class B - http://tradingpost.classb.com/cartoon-power-patrol-patch/ and I had to wonder which existing patrol would use such?!?).

Class B girl-oriented patches should be fine.  I see no issue with that.  

36 minutes ago, David CO said:

The article said that the university will continue to offer these activities through their staff supervised outdoor program, so they are not totally banning the outdoor activities. They are requiring these outdoor activities to be organized and supervised by staff.

Sadly, this makes sense.  Certain activities do have risk and need to be taken seriously by skilled people.  PSU is paying for the insurance coverage.  That coverage probably states that activities that can have risk will have skilled supervision.  The only way PSU could satisfy that requirement is to have staff cover it.  It's not any safer really, just a perception of safety.

Wow.  Just wow.  

The logs are a tool, not a requirement.  Useful if the scout wants to use it.  If they want to use it, great.  If they can't remember, it's a great place to start listing what they've done.  If not listed, then it's just a friendly conversation seeing if they have fulfilled the requirement.   

It's the camping and service that is required.  Not the log.  I like to think of it as keep the positive focus on the activities, not the paperwork. 

I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a parent to pass a mild comment to the committee chair or the scoutmaster.  On the flip side, don't insert yourself too much.  They probably saw what happened and are trying to figure out themselves what should be done.

4 hours ago, Cambridgeskip said:

... I don't see it as their place to tell their students that they cannot organize themselves to do an activity based on risk.

As said before, once sanctioned, it can be argued the university is at risk and potentially has liability.  For example, the university would be listing the organization with contacts, etc.  So what if someone gets hurt of victimized.  It could be easily argued that by listing the organization (contacts, description implying a charter) and supporting the organization (meeting rooms, listing as a contact, etc) ... then, the university is implying the organization and it's leaders have been vetted and is following good policies and procedures. 

Sadly, I do agree.  But then again, I'd argue football and many other sports should be community based and not school based.  

"Maybe we should find some other word than trustworthy, like honest or truthful, since nobody is considered to be worthy of trust anymore."

I fear like all public discussion chains we've devolved.  

25 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

That’s not right. The SPL must’ve been greedy, “power hungry”, or the one scout that was left out and wanted attention. 

I don’t know if this is considered hazing or “over the top”, but if I find something I simply ask (even if I know it’s theirs) if it is there’s and when they say yes, I just hand it back and let it be done. Simple as that.

I agree.  It should be a simple thing reflecting "a scout is friendly".  What happened is it was a time when the troop was into teaching lessons.  Sometimes those lessons became forced.  So I'm sure someone was explaining to the SPL how to make an example of someone.  I remember when the SPL would not give it back.  My son was looking at him like he was not a very honest or friendly person.  It broke trust even then as he knew there was a reason it would not be coming back.  The sad thing is before my son would go to the SPL's house a few times to socialize.  He never went again after that.  

Maybe it's not the song thing that bugs me as the forced lesson.  The great thing in scouting is learning from the natural results of your choices and actions and non-actions.  A lot is lost when it becomes a forced trick with someone looking to make a point.  Like the SPL who casually drops trash after the cleanup line has gone by to make his point.  

2 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

... Telling a Scout he can't have something back until he sings for it, the Scout saying go ahead and keep it, ... 

One of my older sons left something on the table.  It was part of what he was bringing home as a carry item.  But the SPL got it first and would not give it back.  Only later as they were assembled to go home did the SPL bring the item up and say that my son left it on the table.  He asked my son to sing for it.  Watching the physical reaction of my son was very sad.  Worse though was I saw him try something like that on someone else at the next camp out so he could do it to them.  Perhaps the lesson was intended to be to take responsibility for your stuff, but he already knew that lesson.  It's just he was busy doing another part of the cleaning at that moment.  Instead, the lesson taught was to look for opportunities to knock the other guy down.   To put rules ahead of compassion and friendliness.  

Because of that ... and knowing the personality of my youngest ... I told him that if it happened to him that he should acknowledge it's his.  But if he's asked to sing or something else for it, just tell them to keep the object and he can keep his pride.  I didn't want that son learning the lesson the earlier son learned.  

Yeah, I do consider that innocent singing hazing by my experience and by the definition of what it is.

Is cutting a corner hazing?  I can see both sides.  I'd prefer to share the reminder to be safe.  And, if he's not safe, don't let him have a knife.  

The article doesn't have a new viewpoint or any deep perspective.  It's just re-hashing a summary of very high level issues.  In some ways, it reminds me of political coverage when newspapers follow who's in the lead instead of following issues.  

Phone calls ... I'm surprised I did not consider the affect on phone calls.  I try to have my wife in the same room, but sometimes I field calls while driving.  I'm not sure how to work around this issue. 

Band bosters too?   This is different than my experience.  It seems like the school district is taking on the audit and finance responsibility for each of the organizations.  It really grows the scope and umbrella of the school district.  

18 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I've heard of folks trying to register as merit badge counsellors to circumvent the fee.  Would like to see an official policy from national on what "registered" means

The rule now says ...

The new registration requirement (announced in the fall of 2017) was:
"Effective for the 2018 BSA summer camp season, any adult accompanying a Boy Scout troop to a residence camp or other Scouting activity lasting 72 hours or more must be registered as a leader, including completion of a CBC and YPT, even if they are the parent of a youth on the trip."

I'm pleasantly surprised at the responses and very glad to hear this is not an obstacle or something people will circumvent.  I was trying to decide my thoughts on the second one.  The comments here help.  Thank you.

38 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

We require adults going on any campouts to do YPT. 

Now, you will also need to register them and incur the $33 registration cost.  I'm not sure the cost is the biggest issue as much as the paperwork issue.  

14 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

So if we add a couple of adult registrations for 3/4 of the year we're looking at an additional cost of $24 a piece.  

$33 a piece.  Not a huge difference.  Just a friendly clarification.

I've recently taken the updated YPT.  It was very well done and I was impressed.  I'm concerned though about two changes.  One that we've tried to do as a troop and one that was a surprise.

• Scouts sharing a tent should not be more then two years apart unless they are siblings.  We as a troop have always tried to do this.  We viewed it as another imbalance of power situation.  I don't think this affects my troop, but I'm wondering how troops that do mixed age patrols will succeed with this.  Often you have scouts missing from the patrol.  I don't think it would be unusual in a mixed age patrol to have scouts camping where there is no one within two years of age.  It seems the only good conclusion would be that those scouts have their own individual tent.   So this is do-able and a good change.
• Adults on a camp out longer than 72 hours must be registered as a leader (and thus also have completed YPT).  This seems a big challenge that units will game.  What if the scouts go on a long trip and some of the parents want to go or the spouse of a SM/ASM.  Or if you need an another adult to come as a driver.  This seems to be a hard rule to do smoothly and it also seems like it would affect the youngest scouts the most. 

Constructive comments and reflection would be useful.  ...  If you just want to complain about bad BSA decisions, just move on and don't post.  

Interesting ... I know our PTO is it's own non-profit and they get to use the school facilities for free as their activities are to benefit the school and the school district.  They don't need to pay to rent the space.  Even then, rents are usually very reasonable such as $4 or $5 for an hour to rent a gym.  In any event, that's your school district.  

You hit it on the head.  

18 minutes ago, ScoutingforAnswers said:

They're questioning how they can be deemed responsible for an organization that has the freedom they had to surrender a few years ago.

That is the issue.  The PTO does have a non-profit ID, but they don't use it.  The PTO should be using the school district non-profit ID.  It does seem strange though.  PTOs are usually fundraising organizations that raise money to spend on pet projects.  Play sets.  Teacher supplies.  If the PTO does not control it's funds, then why raise funds.  The raised funds would effectively supplement the district general fund.  That's hardly an inspiring purpose.

You may be stuck in a shoving match between the school district and the PTO.  Smooth the waters if you can.  Otherwise, you may need to find a new charter org.  

One note.  For ten years or more now, you need an SS# or EIN to open a bank account.  So your scouting unit may have inadvertently partially created a new legal entity.  ... I've seen it happen three or four times now.  Our local bank will even show customers the IRS web site for getting an EIN for a non-profit.  While sitting in the bank, customers fill that out to get a new EIN for their scouting org.   I fear it is rarely taken to closure to create a full entity that is structured completely clean with correct paperwork filled each year.