eolesen

Longhaul, if we never recruited unit scouters for district positions, we'd never fill up the district positions. I'm an ADC, but my primary registration and the largest occupier of my "one hour a week" is as an ASM. I may take on an DL position as well with our pack, since they meet on different nights... Three of the other ADC's in our district are also currently either SM's or ASM's. Our DC's primary registration is CC for a pack. In a more perfect world, we'd all only wear one patch in Scouting. But I wouldn't trade the experience of wearing two. It's made me a better scoutmaster, and a better friend of the troops and packs I serve. You'll probably guess that the commissioner service suffers at the expense of the units we also serve. I'd say in some ways, yes. But the flipside is having no commissioner staff at all, and that's pretty much the situation we were in a few years ago. Nationwide, only about 25% of the commissioner positions are actually filled. In our district, we had UC's with 4 and 5 units. Today, we're pretty close to a goal of no more than 2 units per UC. That's where my units are at, if you include the 2 that I oversee while I seek out a UC to take them on...(This message has been edited by eolesen)

I'm an ADC, so I'll simply dodge the question... There's Quality and there's quality. I focus on the latter... I do believe you can tell a good program at the first visit. Return visits just reinforce that impression. One of my units has only five or six boys attending meetings on a regular basis, but they're a quality program in that they're functioning under the patrol method/boy led. You don't see their SM or ASM up there preaching. Another one has twenty or so boys regularly attending. Adults make 10-15 minutes of announcements at each meeting. I've seen 25-30 minutes of announcements, which is a third of the alloted meeting time. Sure, they're a Quality unit. But at times I question the quality of their program. All of the ADC's and UC's in our district are what I'd consider long time unit leaders (5-8 years). Most are still SM's or ASM's. So, I don't think that training or their background is the issue. Looking at the council level, it's been a while since some commissioners have been directly involved with a unit. Given the shortage of commissioners nationwide, I'm not going to complain too much if someone wants to serve in the position, but when recruiting, I do make an effort to find UC's who are still active at the unit level, and plan to remain active.(This message has been edited by eolesen)(This message has been edited by eolesen)

It's the "DO NOT GO FORWARD" point in the project cycle. My DAC has disallowed ELSPs which were completed without District approval, and has been upheld at National on appeal. Been there, unfortunately. We had a cover up the fact that his project had been completed even before it was approved by the Scoutmaster... When the SM asked to visit the site to see it in its "before" condition, he knew something was wrong... It didn't even go to the DAC, and his birthday was only a week out, which left no time to get another project approved and executed. The boy appealed and lost. Parents threatened to sue the troop and SM personally, but that never happened either... but it was an ugly experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I still think that regardless of what happens with the money and assets, you probably should consider meeting with the COR and IH and giving them insight into why you left. You may still wind up empty handed, but it might make them take a closer look at what's going on with the unit they're still charting.

First of all, if you've done all the things you wrote about, I commend you for actually making the boys understand that earning their Eagle is a personal challenge, and not just a punchlist of requirements Sounds like this kid has something else going on in his life which has left him without a lot of self-esteem, which isn't uncommon with teenagers. What's his strongest skill or interest? Is there a way you can incorporate that skill or interest into something that helps him experience cheerful service as you've phrased it and at the same time would allow others to recognize his strengths in a positive way?

I've heard five years of service as the benchmark for the DAM, but it's not specified anywhere on the nomination form.

Man Scouts around here are adult Scouters who never associate with real live Boy Scouts. They are involved at the District and Council level, but rarely, if ever, do anything with boys in a Troop. Hmmm. Brent just described a good percentage of the Commish staff I've come in contact with...

This is a double posted thread... Can I suggest that the discussion continue over in the following thread, which has a lot more responses already? Duplicate Thread(This message has been edited by eolesen)

The really important ones to me are the bowline, taut line hitch, two half hitch, clove hitch, and timber hitch. They're all required for First Class. Lashings come in handy too... The only one I wear on my uniform is the Turks Head.

Been there done that... we had a friend of our son who would regularly sleep over, but never once made it past midnight without going thru almost the same drill, i.e. complaining of a stomach ache and wanting to go home. This went on thru sixth grade. Finally, we took him RV camping with us once for a three day trip. Same thing happened, but since we were in an area with no cell coverage, there was no way to have mom or dad come pick him up. He survived, but not without a meltdown on the second night. A month or two later, he finally survived a sleep over at our house and seems to have been broken of it for good. Yes, it was frustrating at times, especially when I had to get dressed and drive him home at o'dark thirty, but kids develop at different speeds. There might be some valid reasons for his anxiety that you don't know about and perhaps his family doesn't want to disclose. But he will grow out of it eventually.

I'm with Ed on this one. They haven't grown out of it on their own, so it's time to experience consequences for their actions. I'd give the committee a heads up after the inevitable happens, since they're likely to field some phone calls from parents who help enable this type of behavior. Please note I said -after- the suspensions. It's my opinion that the SPL and SM don't need to ask for permission since the bad behavior is directly impacting an activity in progress.

In reality, it's not your money anymore -- just like when you leave a church, you can't ask for a pro-rated refund if you forward tithe on a quarterly basis like we do. But... it's worth a sit-down with the chartered rep and institutional head. They will probably be more level headed than the SM and CC, who obviously see your actions as the ultimate vote of no-confidence in their abilities.

Given the research facilies, I'd agree with you that they're probably #1 on employment. Vandenburg, Edwards, and Eglin have lots of space, but are lightly staffed relative to their size. W/P is also the largest collection of historical yet unairworthy aircraft east of the Mississippi. D/M has that distinction for west of the Mississippi. The camping areas at most of the western AFB's is nothing to write home about either... Biggest complaint is the lack of shade, but trees and aircraft don't usually mix very well!

How exactly does the "ignore user" function work?...

I was one of the first to go to Switchbacks, and I'll probably be the first to go with the new shirt. My current one is getting a little ratty around the edges, but since I rarely wash it, it hasn't shrunk much. This came up at Roundtable last week, and a few SM's mentioned that they weren't allowing the switchbacks to be worn by boys at events with campfires, because the nylon has a tendancy to melt when you get a little too close to the fire... I've seen it happen as well. Hopefully, the new shirts will have a little more resistance to the occasional ember or proximity to high heat sources.

Ohio Scouter, I agree that Wright-Patterson is large and a cool place to visit, but I don't think it's the largest AFB. Davis-Monthan in Tucson has 17 square miles, Vandenburg in California is about 82 square miles, Edwards is around 475 square miles, and Eglin in Florida takes the prize at over 700 square miles.

Blame BSA for what happened with the UU's if you want to, but as I see it, the UU made a conscious choice to place themselves at odds with BSA's principles. Other religions who take similarly liberal attitudes towards homosexuality still have their emblems remain in the program, but that's because they didn't try to make a political statement in their curriculum. So, you can call it discrimination if you choose, but it doesn't change the fact that UU's, wiccans, and other faiths outside of the Judeo/Christian/Islam mainstream are still welcome to join Scouts. Given how few Scouts actually complete the religious emblems outside the realm of the Catholic and LDS church sponsored units, I find this whole line of argument to be splitting hairs... Slouchhat, BSA is indeed a representation of its membership. It follows a presbyterian style of democracy. Individual units are represented by unit scouters on District committees. Districts are represented by unit scouters on Council committees. Council committees are represented by unit scouters at Area committees. Area committees are represented by unit scouters at Regional committees Regional committees are represented by unit scouters at National committees. If it were the dictatorship that you imply it is, you wouldn't have any need for that structure -- you'd simply have the professional scouters making all the decisions. When you have an organization as large and diverse as BSA (yes, despite all of the handwringing, it is a tremendously culturally and religiously diverse organization), there will always be someone who feels that BSA ignores their views. That's not at all unlike any form of government, I might add. Kadiera, it sounds like a worthwhile program.... I'm probably in the minority that while I defend BSA's policies as they currently are, I also think there shoulc be parallel organizations who are better able to serve the needs of youth whose parents don't find BSA to be the right environment for their families.

Volker, being friendly and changing the membership guidelines are mutually exclusive. I know a troop who did several service projects which benefited a hospice which primarily served gay men and drug addicts in the terminal stages of AIDS. Providing service to others and being friendly doesn't mean you have to put your own beliefs aside. "America ain't what it used to be. " Nope. It ain't. I'll posit that it was a much better place to live when the freedom of religion was actually respected. Instead, it's become "freedom from religion" for the past 15 to 20 years, and now, sex, drugs, and crime are put up on a pedestal instead of more traditional/conservative values. Movies/shows like "The Sopranos" and "American Gangster" are entertaining, but while the bad guys usually get it in the end, they do so only after a lot of really bad behavior has been glorified... TV shows in the 70's could barely say "crap" and get away with it. Watch "The Simpsons" or even "ER" and you'll hear language which would have never been permitted to air. Then again, looking at the backlog of people trying to get resident visas, we must be doing something right... Likewise with BSA -- if the program was so darn evil, you wouldn't have as many people trying to get the membership standards relaxed.

The flip-side of not having staffers pay their way is that the course participants wind up paying for their food... that in turn might make it less affordable for some participants.

My previous council used to send out "Ask Me About Woodbadge" laminated tags that could be hung in the temporary patch location (right pocket) by anyone who had completed the course. Almost all of the instructors at Scoutmaster Fundementals and Outdoor Leadership Skills were wearing the tags, so that was another silent promotion of the course. If nothing else, it made people who had no idea what it was to ask "what is it?" Personally, I try to let all of my UC's and CC's know about the upcoming courses in council as well as in the neighboring council, and if known, how many seats are left.

Lisa, I agree with why the research is needed, but it's no less ludicrous of an argument than it is to say that the City of Philadelphia is subsidizing the BSA by letting them use a building that BSA built and maintains without using a single dollar of taxpayer funds. Personally, I thing it is ludicrous to argue about funding faith based or even race based organizations when you consider the overall good they provide for the community as a whole.

That was their seed money, but go look for yourself at http://www.cmh.pitt.edu/fundingpartners.asp How much do they receive? Got me. NCMHD's total budget was less than $200M, but I don't think the level of funds received is relevant -- the fact is that they're receiving federal (and municipal) support for activities which exclude some taxpayers. Ed, I stand corrected. Pitt is a state university... they're not part of the U of P or Penn State system, which is my mistake.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

Nice dodge, but the point is still valid, Merlyn. First, a correction... Pitt is a private university, so they're not state supported as GW indicated above, but they and the program still receiving federal funding via the National Center on Minority Health and Health Disparities, which falls under Dept. of Health & Human Services, a cabinet level agency. They also are tied in with the Allegheny County Health Department, which is a local governmental agency. So, this is a valid example of tax dollars being used for a program which provides great benefits for the community as a whole, but still discriminates against a segment of the population. And that's OK, because the benefits to the community as a whole outweigh the fact that white people at all income levels won't necessarily benefit from the research being done or the care being given to minorities.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

The paperwork sounds imposing, but it isn't all that much more than what we compile for a tour permit...

I just read thru the comments... while interesting, it does show some of the hypocracy in the LDS culture... Many of those posting say they'll never donate to FOS again, yet they don't question how their 10% tithe is spent.... I have yet to ever see any accounting for how much money is paid out to LDS professional staff and leadership. Professional scouters have a lot more to deal with than the average volunteer scouter will ever be faced with. They deserve to be paid accordingly if you want a quality program. One thing I do agree with from the Deseret comments is abandoning the compulsary nature of LDS scouting for both boys and leaders. I'd much rather have see boys earning their Eagle because it was a personal goal, and not because the church (and by association, their parents) demanded it be done. I'd also rather not be training between a quarter to a half of my districts unit leaders every 18 to 24 months...