Eamonn

acco40 Old Chap, I'm sorry I in no way intended to imply that "Good folks" are any less or any more lightly to have accidents than "Bad folks". When I posted: "He really isn't in anyway a bad kid or a troubled kid." I was trying to get over the point that this was a normal everyday kid!! If there is or ever was such an animal. He isn't a wild and crazy guy who is going to drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. He comes from a very loving and caring family and to the best of my knowledge is not a Lad who is on any medications of any sort. (At least he has never said anything about this sort of thing when he was away with the Ship.) I think all of us know really good people who have been involved in very tragic accidents. I know at times I have been left wondering why God allows this sort of thing to happen? When Her That Must Be Obeyed was diagnosed with cancer. I went through a phase where I was mad at everyone. I wanted to blame someone. I was mad at the doctors for not finding it sooner and not doing more to prevent it. I was even mad at her for having it!! I was really mad at God!! It just didn't seem fair. How the heck could he allow this terrible hing to happen to someone who is so darn nice and good? How the heck could he have the audacity to treat me this way? Sure I was wallowing in my own bath of self pity. I still don't have the answers. I'm now at the stage where I'm not even sure of the questions. I do know that life happens.We can and do in many ways have some control over what happens to us, what we do, where we go and we do either pay or benefit from what we have done. I'm never going to go broke playing the lottery. But I'm never going to win millions of dollars. Because I don't buy the ticket. I wasn't in the car with this Lad. I don't really know what happened. I know that I might be being unfair. But I suspect that a car full of teenagers, with maybe loud music? With cell phones and texting? With maybe a little showing off? coupled with lack of experience had more to do with this than any part of him being a good or a bad kid. Bad things do happen to good people. Why this happens? I just don't know. Maybe when I go for a pint with my maker I'll remember to ask. Eamonn.

"What is the BSA standing on Wiccans and Pagans?" As far as I know. -Which is no great distance! Wiccans and Pagans are welcomed as members. The BSA does not at this time permit or maybe recognize might be a better word? Any religious awards that they might have to be worn on a BSA uniform. Wiccans do have a youth organization that seems to me to be very much like Scouting. I'm not sure why the BSA doesn't recognize any Wiccans religious awards? It might be that maybe there is not enough Wiccans? Or maybe the Wiccans organization is not set up to be able to manage what is needed for a structured religious award? Eamonn

Hi acheadle, Welcome to the forum. I don't see myself waiting outside the store to be the first to buy a new uniform on August 15th, or when ever it arrives. I can only think of one person I know who might want to do this. He is a super young fellow, who at present serves as the Lodge Chief for our OA Lodge. I think the supply of uniforms I have right now will see me out. I'm not expecting to gain or lose a lot of weight and I'm way past any growth spurts ! More's the shame! I'm sure given time the young up and coming Scouter's will look at me in my old uniform and see an old codger and wonder "What the heck is he still doing here" Of course I'll look at them and see a bunch of young whippersnappers!! Eamonn

While my kid is by no means an angel. I do thank the Good Lord that he isn't a bad kid and isn't into "Bad Stuff". (Booze and Drugs.) My big fear since he became a driver is that he is going to have an accident or cause an accident. Again I thank the Good Lord for looking after him and so far it hasn't happened. About a year back, one of his best friends got in a heated argument with his mom, left the house mad and upset and drove off at speed. He crashed his Ford Explorer into a bridge and ended up dead. I can't imagine the loss that this Lad's parents and family feel. I don't have all the details and missed the story on the local news, but earlier this week four Lads who are serving on our Council Camp Staff had been out on their night off. It seems that they were rushing to get back to camp before 2300 the time set to be back, when they crashed into a guide rail, the car flipped over a couple of times and caught fire. They were very lucky to get out. I don't know the full extent of their injuries. They were flown from the crash to a big hospital in Pittsburgh PA. The driver(A Lad I have known since he was a Tiger and who has served as the Ship's Boatswain) is home, having a broken leg, some nasty bruises from his seat belt and airbag. The other three are still in the hospital. As far as I know all are going to make it home. OJ (My kid) has become a volunteer fireman. He was at work when this accident happened, so he missed the call. The firemen who did attend said that the car must have been really moving as it took out about 30 foot of the guide rail and this was odd as the car was going up-hill. The drivers mother sent me an e-mail saying that her son fell asleep? I'm not sure what to think about that? Of course the main thing is that in time it seems that everyone is going to be OK. The Lad driving who was driving is only 17. He really isn't in anyway a bad kid or a troubled kid. I think he might be guilty of being a unexperienced teen-aged driver. Every-time OJ leaves the house, I must sound like a broken record, telling him to drive careful and not speed and that I love him. I have to admit that I was happy when his sub-woofer took a turn for the worse! I'm sure that he will see as a volunteer fireman the results of people speeding. Kinda sad, but unfortunately true. I know that I'm guilty of playing the music in my car a little louder than maybe I should. Thankfully I never got into the habit of using my cell phone in the car. I have tried to set him a good example by not speeding. Please if you have any teenagers who drive, tell them to slow down. Never ever let them leave the house mad or upset. Ask Camp Directors to impress on their staff that while arriving back late is never a good thing. - Speeding to get back on time is far worse. My worse nightmare is of course anything ever happening to me or mine. But I hate to see any kid harmed or hurt. Slow down and save a life, may sound like old hat. But we can all try to get the message across. Eamonn.

Lisabob Of course you know the Scouts and the families. (And I don't!) I do sometimes wonder if maybe we spend a little too much time worrying about the cost of things? When I see what other organizations charge for camps and summertime activities and how parents can't wait to sign their kids up? I do think we tend to drive ourselves crazy for no reason. I do believe that parents and Scouts are willing to spend money on what they see as being a quality program. Talking as a parent, I'd sooner spent the extra and see my son have a wonderful time than spend the money on our Council camp ($260 for a week) and end up doing the same old same old. "What about the cross-overs and the new Scouts ?" is an age old problem. I'm sure that someone will post that taking them to the local camp, if you have enough leaders? Is an option. While maybe having the Scouts participate in a First Year Camper program is not such a bad idea and the Scouts could benefit from it, I'm not sure having them not be part of the whole is such a good thing. Having the details available to all the Dens that visit, would seem to be a good idea. But then again it might scare them away!! While I'm sure that no one would really say anything. I have a feeling that youth who are not members of the Troop participating in a fund raiser which is done in the name of the CO might be seen by some as not exactly kosher! You might want to very discreetly ask your COR. Eamonn.

Please don't point the finger at anyone other than me for editing and deleting parts of the original thread. The Private Message function works really well!! If anyone wants to give someone a piece of their mind, that is the way it should be done. There are times when the best thing to do is to do nothing and take plenty of no notice!! Come on guys!! You are both two very nice fellows. Even if you can't see eye to eye, I'm sure you can agree to disagree in a nice way. Thanks. Eamonn.

I'll own up to being a check writer. My deal with my son was that I'd pay half of any Scouting expense. He had to come up with the other half. He did this by using money earned by doing stuff around the house. (Chores, like mowing grass.) And by using money he received as gifts for birthdays, Christmas and so on. I seen this as fair. I also didn't have to try and sell stuff that was in some cases junk or just unwanted to the people I worked with. We are a very small family. All my kin are a long way from the USA. Both of Her Who Must Be Obeyed parents were only children, her Dad passed away before my son was born and she has one brother. Not much of a market there!! Given the choice of me spending my hard earned cash or me trying to sell stuff (And lets be honest in most cases it is the parents who end up selling the stuff!) I'll gladly put my hand in my pocket. As kids get older they become less cute!! They get involved in more activities. It seems every activity has some one or some group who thinks that "Their Kids" have a real need to raise funds. Band members are selling something and washing cars,Soccer Moms are having dinners and making hoagies, prom tickets cost an arm and a leg so they sell chocolates that cost two arms and three legs!! While my son still has a long way to go till he really understands the true meaning of what thrift is. I'm however a lot more comfortable knowing that people are not avoiding me for fear that I'll try and sell them something that they don't need or a ticket for some not so great food. Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Later in the year I'm scheduled to take a course in "Survival Spanish". The course is being presented by the PA State Police. It is only 24 hours of tuition (3 days) So I'm not expecting very much. I'm sure it in no way will qualify me to wear the strip. Ea.

"Cute little group those Brits" Her Who Must Be Obeyed thinks her little Brit is cute. At least she does when he is in the good books! Ea.

It would seem that there is more than enough fault to go around. The camp is at fault for allowing the class to be unmanageable. The Counselor is at fault for not keeping track of all the Scouts. The other Scouts reporting? I have to wonder why? I agree with NeilLup in that I'd want to know or find out why a Lad would take the time to cheat? Is he just trying to pull a fast one? Or is there a problem meeting the requirement? I don't like anyone pulling a fast one on me!! It upsets me. I would hate to take a Scout out on the water thinking he was a good swimmer and then if something went wrong, I found out he wasn't. -Of course I'd have done the swim check first. What happens next is the big question? I would want to meet with the Counselor and try and find out what really did happen, I might ask someone from the camp to be there, someone being th Program Director or the Camp Director. If the Counselor was a youth member? I would want to explain the implications of passing a Scout for this MB,if he hasn't met the requirements. I'd want to impress on the Camp that I had placed my trust in them and I now feel that they had let me down and placed me in this terrible predicament. Hopefully they will learn from the mistakes that were made? Next I would deal with the Scout. If he continues to claim that he did meet the requirement? I have no choice but to take his word. He is a Scout, but you can bet I would let him know that I would be more upset with him for telling me bare-faced lies than for cheating on a MB. Over the coming weeks I would go out of my way to talk the PLC into planning a few events that required doing the requirement that he might have missed. This situation does offer you a great opportunity to take on ethics in a big way. Hopefully even if the Lad never owns up to having cheated he will see that not only was cheating wrong, but it could also lead to him being placed in a dangerous situation later on. Learning that his actions can and does have consequences, might be a far better lesson than anything else? Eamonn.

" Sheesh! I guess you do need an EASL class." If this was supposed to be funny? I'm sorry I have no idea what a EASL class is. Another Forum member has sent me a PM asking why I'm allowing someone to act as a Troll? I could of course just delete it all? But that might be seen as a Moderator acting in a heavy handed way. I think maybe we can all learn from reading this sort of thing. It's a great example of what we shouldn't be doing. Eamonn.

I have not visited Gilwell Park for about five years. I know a lot of money was spent redoing the White House. Some of it raised by selling Wood Badge Beads from oaks that fell. Gilwell never seems to have been able to live up to or meet the expectations of many Americans who seem to expect it to be a "Happy Land" Gilwell Field is just that a field, sure there are a few flag poles. - But a field is a field is a field. There is a fairly good souvenir store, but again Gilwell is more about being a Scouting Activity Center than a Training Mecca. It is also a little off the beaten track. (45 minutes by train from Liverpool Street and a couple of mile walk from Chingford to the site.) A really good time to visit is the weekend of the Gilwell Reunion in September. Many Americans are a little shocked to see beer tents set up at Gilwell Park. The reunion is a great weekend and the campfire is not to be missed. Eamonn

Picking up on something that NeilLup said. Scouting should be fun! Finding reasons to celebrate shouldn't be hard. A store bought cake or better yet a homemade cake and a case of pop doesn't cost that much. Find out what motivates the members of the committee. Thank you letters for a job well done? Certificates? Keep records and present the District Key to people who meet the requirements. District Chairs can nominate committee members for the District Award of Merit and the Silver Beaver. These people are "Your Team" -Look after them!! Eamonn.

Have to admit that I was happy when my term of office as a District Chairman came to an end. Some tips: Hold people accountable for doing what they are supposed to do or have said that they are going to do. Remember that everyone serves for a year. If there are members who are not doing what they should be doing thank them for their past services and replace them. Replace the people who only attend the meetings to moan and complain. Work closely with the other two members of the Key 3. Don't let them off the hook. Remember that DE's are paid!! One of your main roles is to train your replacement!! Set goals for the District, have your own vision and mission. Share these with the committee. When looking for people to serve on the committee look and think outside of the box. -District Committee Members do not have to have served as youth leaders or have ever been Scouts. Like it or not. A big part of what the District does has to do with numbers. But these "Numbers" do end up being more youth and better program facilities for the youth. Trying to get COR to attend the meetings may seem like a lost cause. Don't give up. Sometimes giving them a job to do on the committee will help get them to attend. Remember that it is not all going to come together overnight, all you might accomplish is to lay the foundation for the next guy or the one after. Be ready to say farewell to the DE who you just trained. You can bet he or she will be on their way out just when you have them doing what they are supposed to do. Along them lines never ever think that you work for the DE - You don't. Start all meetings on time and never allow any meeting to run longer than 90 minutes. When someone isn't doing what they are supposed to find out why? Before the meeting. This means contacting them before the meeting and finding out what's happening. If you can't reach them pass that job on to the DE -He or She has a lot more time than you do. Read all you can about what the functions of a District are and don't dwell on any one area. They are all important. Eamonn.

"At least you and your kind are expecting stores to put up special signs for you." ???? My kind of what? Ea.

"who can't speak anything but American.... " Hey I've been here for 25 years and I'm still speaking English. Not wishing to hijack the thread. Years back, when I was still scouting in the UK. Our District held monthly Scouter's meetings. These were really boring!! I was of course a lot younger then and enjoyed stirring things up a little. To this end a pal of mine and myself would find questions that would get everyone going. I had one young Scout who wanted to earn the UK Interpreter Proficiency Badge. If I remember right it was a Service Badge which meant that all the requirements had to be fully met with no wiggle room. This Lad was originally from some place in Pakistan where some dialect of Pakistani was spoken. He was from a single parent family and his mother spoke this, but she didn't speak any English. My question was, would it be OK if he used English as a foreign language? The district had me contact the Pakistan Embassy who did have someone who spoke the same dialect as his mother and they acted as the Badge Examiner. Eamonn.

" If BSA drops the DRP, we lose the support of the LDS church, the Methodist church, and quite possibly the Catholic church." That might be true and could happen. To the best of my knowledge, while some churches were not very happy when Scouts UK allowed gay leaders, no church walked away from the Scouting program. Then on the other side of the coin. I wonder what happens when more churches start accepting Gays? What might happen when a church with maybe a gay person in charge, challenges the BSA? If gay marriage becomes legal in all 50 states? Will the BSA see this as a change in values? As for the adults in the BSA who are gay or atheist. My feelings are that it's none of my business. They are making a oath on their honor. If the oath to them is just a collection of words and their honor is of no consequence, that is something that they have to deal with. While I really don't know how a atheist adult leader manages to deal with explaining the Scout oath to a young lad? I feel that many people in this situation have worked out some way of working around it.Or maybe they just ignore it? While I'm not gay and I'm not an atheist. I do at times feel like a fraud. Here I am making an oath which includes "To keep myself physically strong" while I continue to smoke. I have used and continue to use every argument known to man to rationalize my smoking. While the tide of public opinion might be turning and being gay or being an atheist is maybe more acceptable than it was. Smokers and smoking is becoming less and less acceptable. Of course, chances are that one day I'll find a way to quit smoking. Eamonn.

A few years back there was a rumor that one of the fast food restaurant chains was adding earthworms to the hamburgers. Someone worked out that it cost more to rise a pound of earthworms than it does a pound of beef. Why would the BSA want to keep anything secret? What real purpose would it serve? Some Councils might be guilty of not being as open as maybe the might or could be? But I fail to see why the BSA would need to hide anything. Eamonn.

If you are in London? Maybe taking the kids to South Kensington to the Museums? Or doing some shopping at Harrods? Taking the time to stop at BP House. Maybe enjoy a cup of coffee or a soft drink, visit the small (very small!!) Souvenir store and seeing the displays is worth it. But in my view it really doesn't merit a special trip. The house is really more about affordable accommodation's for units visiting London than a stop for tourists. If you choose to stay there? Beware of the bathroom!! But make sure you don't miss the breakfast -It's great!! Eamonn.

And the point is? Eamonn

The inmates in the correctional institution where I'm employed can file grievances. As you can imagine Food Service and the Dietary Department does receive what seems to me more than our fair share. Some of these grievances are about the food; quality, portion size and taste. Some are about the staff. It used to be that these grievances were treated very much as a joke, dismissed and not taken very seriously. To be fair some are very funny! Some are just the work of people who have nothing better to do. A little while back I kinda changed the way we deal with them. Because so many inmates have a problem putting down on paper what they want to say. Now when we get them I meet with the person who wrote the grievance. Sometimes I can't fix what they think is broken! The state determines the size of the portion and the menu is a State-wide menu. But sometimes we do mess up and get things wrong! Sometimes the complains are legitimate complaints. Where as the Staff used to look upon these grievances as almost some sort of badge of honor!! They are now taking the time to see if the complaint has any merit and when it seems that it has they are doing what can be done to fix what was wrong. Along the way something strange has happened, we have now started to receive notes from inmates telling us when we have done a good job. I don't think any of us likes being informed that we are not doing what is expected. I know at times I can and do tend to get very defensive. Maybe it's the old "Fight or flee" instinct? I do have to admit that up until I read what packsaddle posted that I never really thought about myself as being any sort of censor!! As a forum member I do choose not to take very much notice of a few members. I have only ever used the ignore this user on two people, both who are no longer active in the forum. I never really used the quality thingy with the thumb. I'm not sure if anyone does? I have checked it out in a very long time. I think feedback is a good thing. I'm just not sure when feedback crosses the line and becomes "Bashing"? I'm not sure if posting in the forum that you are upset really serves anything any better than a PM? Of course what anyone chooses to do with a PM is up o them! So if the reason to post your grievance in the forum is to lure someone out? Maybe that's the way to go? FScouter was kind enough to post his view about what the guidelines should be. I'm wondering if the other members would post what rules /guidelines they think the moderation team might want to take a look at. I would kinda hope bearing in mind that we are trying our best to be kind. Eamonn

I'm not sure what others expect from the forum? I tend to look at it much the same way as the Parking Lot Meeting, which seems to happen after most Scout-type meetings or a gathering of Scouter's who get together to shoot the breeze around a dying camp fire. I don't see this as the place to visit for chapter and verse of what the BSA rules, guidelines and policy is. I would hope that we all would treat each other with respect and do our best to be kind to each other. Conversations do tend to take on a life of their own. A chat about the price of gas becomes a chat about the good old days, the good old days brings up the old guy from Troop 666 which leads to the kid who fell in the creek, which leads to the conversation being about BSA Lifeguard. - You get my drift!! At times someone will say something that is totally daffy! What we choose to do is up to each of us. We can gang up and beat the heck out of him!! We can take plenty of NO notice. Or maybe in a kind and polite way point out that maybe he is just wrong. I do think the key word is Respect. Eamonn.

Here I go sticking my neck out. "A PM away from the public eye is not what is needed at this point. This needs to be brought out into the open for all forums members to discuss. This affects all the members of the forums, not just those who have had their respective post removed or edited." I fail to see the reason why? If I felt I was the one who was being treated unfairly, I would look at my options. 1/ Knowing that I'm a guest here I might look at myself and the way I behave and see what changes are needed. 2/ I might decide that this forum is not the place for me and seek out a forum that is a better fit? 3/ I might take a look at how the moderators behave in other Scouting Forums and maybe use that as some kind of a yard-stick? 4/ If it seemed that I was only having a problem with one member of the moderator team I might try to communicate with him or her and see what can be done to work out our differences. 5/ I might try and appeal to the owner of the site to have all the moderators removed and new ones selected and installed? I see no real reason to involve all the forum members in a discussion which is lightly to bring up the wrong doings of a few forum members and could become a "You said" - "I said" "Yes you did!" - "No I didn't" type discussion. Re: "Like Eamonn, da other moderators when they comment tend to disclaim knowledge." Yes I'm guilty as charged! Maybe I'm also guilty of not following each and every thread. To be honest my feelings on the Problems With The Leader Application thread were /are that we'd had this discussion not so long ago and I wasn't seeing anything new. So I personally wasn't getting anything from it. I didn't post in the thread. Still being that the site owner has trusted a group of forum members to keep an eye on things, I'm happy that Frank is doing what I should have been doing. Along them lines. A little while back a member of the moderator team let it be known to the other moderators that he was so fed up trying to deal with a couple of forum members that crossing the line frequently, that he was not going to have anything to do with them. He felt that he had allowed them to get to him and he was unsure if he could deal with them in a fair and Scout-like way. Many of us who have been forum members for a while, can I think guess who is going to post what. We know that no matter how much some people try they are going to come off sounding pompous, others come off sounding sarcastic. The list goes on. We have people we tend to agree with At least most of the time and even when we disagree with them we are happy not to add the same measure of venom. Some of us do allow some people to push our buttons. Most of us most of the time seem OK to not rise to the bait. Sadly at times some of us do and more sadly it seems that some go out of their way annoy and push their luck goading other forum members in the knowledge that they will rise to the bait. I'll admit that there are times when I notice stuff that in my view /opinion is not right, but for different reasons I let slide. Sometimes one of the other moderators does pick it up and sometimes it just slides by. I'm not sure if the moderator team is ever going to be able to deliver evenhanded and across the board moderation. Being as we are individuals with different backgrounds and opinions. We as a team are not in contact with each other other than in this forum and have no idea who will visit when. This does mean that when it comes to looking at what is going on and what action should be taken or not taken we are very much on our own. We do very often discuss what we have done or not done after the fact. Sometime back we only had two moderators (Hoops and OGE) The team was enlarged because things weren't going so well and at times both moderators were busy doing other things. The only way I can see too ensure that everything was always evenhanded and across the board,would be to only have one moderator. Of course this could at times cause problems. I'm not sure what the outcome might be if the forum was not moderated? I kinda feel that it would make little or no difference to most of the forum members we have right now. I do wonder what might happen if shall we say less desirable sorts came along? At the end of the day it makes little or no difference what I think. Terry the site owner has decided that the site is better with a moderation team. He was the person who selected the moderators, it will be up to him if and when he decides to thank me for my past services! Some forum members might not like it, but the team of moderators were not elected they were selected by the site owner. Terry can of course if he wants set guidelines for the moderators to follow. It would then be up to each moderator to decide if he wanted to continue or not. There is a link at the very bottom of the page that is a contact to the site owner. If anyone feels that myself or any of the moderators are doing a bad job, I would urge them to contact Terry the site owner. All of the moderators are forum members and just like every other forum member are also guests when it comes to visiting and using this site. Eamonn.

I do admit to not following the Leader Application Problem thread. Maybe as a moderator I should? Having not seen what was posted I really have no right to say what I might have done. Terry the owner of this site did invite a few forum members to serve as moderators. My understanding of what we as moderators are allowed to do? Is that we have to use good judgment to ensure that the forum and the discussions fall within the boundaries of the Scout Oath and Law. While I'm sure that none of the moderators are on any sort of a Power Trip. Moderators can take whatever action they want. FScouter has contacted many of those who at times post things that are not in keeping with the Scout Oath and Law requesting that change their ways, change or voluntarily delete postings that don't meet the standard. Lord knows that threads can and very often do take on a life of their own. Sometimes by accident and sometimes by design. Most times when it is by design the design is not the work of any of the moderator team. While maybe it's OK for a thread to start out on Philmont then change direction and talk about the best boots and then change yet again to talk about wearing Scout uniforms for high adventure activities. To my mind when the thread becomes a conversation between a moderator who has used his best judgment to maybe alter something and another forum member. We are no longer dealing with Philmont,Boots or Scout uniforms. While at times the banter between a forum member who also serves as a moderator and another forum member can be seen as entertaining by some. The best way of dealing with this is in private and can be done using the Private Message feature. While of course each of the moderators is an individual, each of us have our own peculiarities, each of us have people who we may have allowed to get up our nose and each of us has our own pet peeves. But I think it is very unfair when one moderator is singled out for doing something that needed done. We are a moderator team and stand by each other. I may not have seen the changes that were made, but I stand by them being changed. Just as in a Troop the ASM's stand by the Scoutmaster. Do we always get everything right? Of course we don't! But we are doing our best. I ended up in hot water because a forum member requested that I remove something that he had posted. I received a few PM's from other forum members who thought my reasoning was wrong (My main reason for deleting the posting was because he asked me!!) One member thought I was so out of line that he said he was going to quit the forum. Sometimes it seems that we just can't win. I have never taken the time and I'm not going to take the time to see how many postings have been edited or deleted or who posted them. I do think that very few postings are changed and the ones that are changed belong to just a handful of forum members. Sometime back a couple of forum members were asked to take a vacation from the forum and cool their heels. This resulted in less editing and deleting by the moderators. It was sad as both of these people do at times add a lot to the forum. The moderators have at times talked about having a set of guidelines posted so that everyone will be aware what is and what isn't acceptable. My personal feeling is that we shouldn't really need such a list. At times I know I have crossed the line,I may have had a bad day, I know that I do at times allow people to get up my nose and I have fallen prey to allowing myself to go after them and get them!! Worse still is that I somehow try and rationalize it by trying to make it their fault. At times what has been called "rather predictable exchanges" Do get really old. I'm not sure if the people who post them think that they are being funny? I'm not sure if there is some kind of moth to the flame thing going on? I'm not sure why it goes on? I do know that at times it fails to pass the "Scout oath and Scout Law" standard that we are all trying to do our best to live by. Eamonn.

Of course I don't have or know the full story. A Scout Executive can revoke the BSA membership of a member. This isn't something that is done without just cause and is as a rule only done for very serious offenses. You don't post if the Crew and the Troop share the same CO or not? I would be very surprised to hear that a Lad was removed from a Crew and not a Troop if both the Troop and Crew were chartered by the same chartered partner. SE's as a rule do not get involved in what happens at the unit level. So while I am sure the removal of the Lad from the Crew was done by the book, following all the correct guidelines and procedures. The Lad was only removed from that unit. As long as his membership has not been revoked he is still free to be a member of the BSA and entitled to all the benefits of membership. It would be up to the CO of the Troop to decide if what happened with the Crew would have any effect on his standing in the Troop. They could decide that because of what happened in the Crew that they no longer want him in the Troop. Of course the Lad could still join another Troop or Crew and continue to work toward Eagle Scout rank and still be elected into the OA. Please don't think I'm picking on you!! I'm not and really don't intend too. But Leaders are to deliver the program matters of discipline are managed by committees. Who is allowed to join a unit? Is up to the CO. If I were you I'd just move on and continue to serve the youth that I can by delivering the best program possible to them. Eamonn.