Eamonn

I didn't do such a great job of explaining myself in my last posting. I do not have a problem with recruiting or starting new units. As we all are aware anything that isn't growing is dying. It just hit me that day that we were making a pitch and all of a sudden I felt like the kid who found out that there was no Father Christmas (Santa.) Then again maybe I was like the kid who knew all the time and didn't want to hurt his parents by telling them. As it so happened the Nit we have as a FD. had set us up for failure. We were meeting with a local high school in an effort to start Venturing in the school. My idea was that we could work with some of the in school clubs offering the use of the advancement program along with the benefits of Scouting facilities and insurance. The school has a Tie and Fly fishing club that rents the council camp a couple of times a year. I thought that this would be a goood fit. The FD. wanted numbers. He had gone through the advancement books and said that we would herd a couple of entire classes into a hall and have guest speakers talk about First Aid or some other topic that he had selected from a book. I said this is what we used to do with the old Exploring program and Career Awareness, but he said that as it came from the Venturing books it was Venturing. Needless to say we did not agree. I went to the meeting with the idea of planting the seed and seeing where we as the BSA and they as a school could pair up and do maybe some things together. He wanted at least 100 members to this end without telling the DE and myself he had faxed his plan to the school ahead of our meeting. They looked at it and said that his idea couldn't work as they were doing most of this stuff as part of their curriculum. We were then left trying to explain that the stuff that he had sent wasn't really the entire program. While all the time I'm thinking that a slow painful death would be too good for him. Between the two of us we did everything that we could but we just were unable to get away from that darn fax. We were trying to sell sand in a dessert. I asked why he wasn't at the meeting and was told that he had to be in the office to "Crunch Numbers." I left the meeting wanting to do some crunching of my own and it wasn't numbers. Sure enough if we had managed to get what he wanted we would have been a Quality District and I feel that somehow someway he would have worked this into the council being a Quality Council and yes we might have been able to pass some knowledge onto the classes that attended the presentations but it would not to my mind have been anything like the program that we are supposed to offer. By the way we have a Kirby Sweeper which the Boss loves, we could have bought five Hoovers for the same price. We didn't take the paint sprayer or the sanding attachment or the other parts that the salesperson thought that we couldn't live without. At the end of the day it does work. Eamonn

Pam our DE were planning our meeting with the high school, as ever we were chatting on the phone. I was having a hard time with the planned meeting as my heart was not in what we were doing. As we chatted I said that I was feeling a bit like a Kirby Sweeper salesman, only I didn't know which pitch that I ought to use. I went on to say how it felt kind of odd making a sales call for Scouting. I somehow had always viewed Scouting as something that everyone wanted to do and the very idea of having to make a pitch was alien to me. Pam said that the pros, spent a lot of time learning the pitch and how to make it. Looking back over the years I suppose that I have done my fair share of "Sales calls" I just never viewed it that way. In a way I felt bad that my warm and fuzzy organization was in some ways not the same. I was now out there trying to make a sale. Maybe I am just naive but how did it come to this? As a kid I looked forward to all the fun that we were having and going to have. As a leader I took pride in being a part of the fun the Scouts were having. I watched them grow, we shared more then just Scout meetings we shared our very being. There is so much to be said about knowing a group of Lads who you know are not going to let you or themselves down. Then all of a sudden it comes down to a sales pitch. Yes maybe I am naive. Yet I remember earlier this year meeting with a church who wanted to start a pack. They were a little startled when I said that the last thing that we were going to do was recruit boys. Working with the Minister we recruited a bunch of adults, we put on several training's for them and then with the help of the church newsletter and a the District Membership Chair addressing the congregation we managed to recruit nine young Lads. They now have sixteen and are a pack that is well on their way. Maybe there is a pitch in there someplace? Maybe I just had my heart in that one? Eamonn

Wow - What A Great Thread!!! Eamonn

I was confused when this started. Now I'm lost. Still I now know what Pablum is and from the sounds of it Fat Old Guy now has an idea what Marmite is. It is also a small soup bowl. I am not sure in what context Ubermensch is being looked at are we looking at Superman? Or a demigod? My reading these past few years has had more to do with Scout Stuff with the odd John Grisham. Eamonn

Sad to say I can't help you. Still welcome to the forums. Maybe if you give a few more details someone will be able to help. Eamonn

I believe you. Eamonn

While I agree with Bob White that training is very important and I have been trying for some time to explain to the powers that be in our council that retention is more then half the battle when it comes to membership. However when it comes to Tiger Cubs there is no retention, we start fresh every year. I often wonder if part of the problem is that many of the leaders are not passing on the information about some of what is out there. I live in a small town with four packs in it. Most of the Cub Scouts attend the same elementary school and while as can be found everywhere there are some families that are more affluent then others, there is not one pack that has all the rich kids or one that has all the poor kids. Still there is one pack that never joins in any of the district or council activities. Talk to the leaders and they will say that the kids can't afford it. The pack less then half a mile down the road is three times the size and never misses a thing. These Cub Scouts are busy all the time. This is not anything new they have always been like that at least as long as I have been around. It would be ok to say it's the leaders but this active pack has seen four Cubmasters that I have known.(They move up through the program with their son.) As a District we can't make anyone do anything, we do encourge and promote but at times I feel that it is falling on deaf ears. Even direct mailings to the families don't work as long as the leaders are not with us. In our troops we have troops that are happy to attend the Council summer camp year after year. They even sign up for the same site while they are at camp for the next year. When I talk to them about a high adventure program again all I hear is how expensive it is. It seems that we are unwilling or maybe even scared to offer these Scouts any activity that is deemed to be "Too Expensive". If this is going to be the trend maybe as a district we will have to start to offer activities on a district level and meeting with the parents at some sort of a rally or meeting. Eamonn

While I agree with Bob White that training is very important and I have been trying for some time to explain to the powers that be in our council that retention is more then half the battle when it comes to membership. However when it comes to Tiger Cubs there is no retention, we start fresh every year. I often wonder if part of the problem is that many of the leaders are not passing on the information about some of what is out there. I live in a small town with four packs in it. Most of the Cub Scouts attend the same elementary school and while as can be found everywhere there are some families that are more affluent then others, there is not one pack that has all the rich kids or one that has all the poor kids. Still there is one pack that never joins in any of the district or council activities. Talk to the leaders and they will say that the kids can't afford it. The pack less then half a mile down the road is three times the size and never misses a thing. These Cub Scouts are busy all the time. This is not anything new they have always been like that at least as long as I have been around. It would be ok to say it's the leaders but this active pack has seen four Cubmasters that I have known.(They move up through the program with their son.) As a District we can't make anyone do anything, we do encourge and promote but at times I feel that it is falling on deaf ears. Even direct mailings to the families don't work as long as the leaders are not with us. In our troops we have troops that are happy to attend the Council summer camp year after year. They even sign up for the same site while they are at camp for the next year. When I talk to them about a high adventure program again all I hear is how expensive it is. It seems that we are unwilling or maybe even scared to offer these Scouts any activity that is deemed to be "Too Expensive". If this is going to be the trend maybe as a district we will have to start to offer activities on a district level and meeting with the parents at some sort of a rally or meeting. Eamonn

DITTO Eamonn

I may have been a little off in some of my numbers. National Youth Members/Participants as of November 30, 2003 Total Registered: 2002= 4,322,679 2003= 4,024,734 This is a loss of 6.9% Total Cub Scout-Age: 2002= 1,886,090 2003= 1,810,060 This is a loss of 4.0% Total Boy Scout Age: 2002= 971,649 2003=960,683 This is a loss of 1.1%. Not all the news is bad Venturing went up by 0.2% from 247,354 in 2002 to 247,905 in 2003. Eamonn

It would seem from the early reports that I have seen that 2003 has not been a good year for the BSA. The fall in membership nationwide is a big bad blow to all of us.I like to think that most of us in these forums believe in Scouting, even if we may have different ideas of how to deliver the program. So far nothing I have read has explained what has gone wrong. Some people have said that the $3.00 raise in the membership fee may have had something to do with the loss,others are telling me that we just did not attract as many boys into the Tiger Cub and Cub Scout program. I don't know if there is any truth in these statements. It also seems that at least on the council level that donations are down. I do know that this is true in our council. So it would seem that something is not working. My problem is that I'm not sure what? In our district we seen the small packs grow some doubled in size, while the bigger packs who had a lot of boys cross over into Boy Scouts and had lost boys just didn't make up the loss. So we had packs that gained 13 or 14 boys while we had packs that lost as many as 20 or 30 boys. At this time we are down by 79 Cub Scouts. We are up in Boy Scouts and Venturers, but only by a few. Looking at where we failed the Tiger program is starting to stick out like a sore thumb. We only recruited half the number that we did three years ago.Again I don't know why the decline? I welcome your thoughts ideas and views. Thanks. Eamonn

Can't help feeling that I have missed something? What the heck is pablum? Is it like Marmite? At times there will come along the instance when even when we know that a rule may be broken or a law may be bent but we deem that this may or might be the right thing to do. Of course this may be a judgment call which when viewed with hindsight may not stand up to scrutiny. Yes I have broken a few speed limits to get someplace where I know there is a bunch of kids waiting outside for me. Yes I have disregarded the BSA youth protection policy when a kid has got stranded at camp. None of these were wise things to do and I strongly advise people not to get allow themselves to get caught in the situation where they feel that they have too. In my ongoing disagreement with both the region and our council I feel that a school can not be a chartered partner of the BSA. I believe that a public school does not measure up to the values needed to be a chartered partner. Still I have been informed that I'm wrong. We are going ahead with making a local high school a chartered partner. The ends could be that we will bring a lot of youth into the program. I feel that I am not living up to the Scout Oath and Law or the Venturing Oath. by allowing and even encouraging this to happen. Still I keep telling myself that even if the school is not up to our values that it is ok because of the impact that we might have on a large number of youth. Eamonn

Needless to say I can only echo OGE as far as we will do what ever possible. I would just love it if someone would hire our FD, and it paid enough for you to join out happy little band. Still if wishes were fishes? It seems that I have been posting a lot about the doom and gloom that we all have faced this year: Membership is down. So much so that the tom-toms are saying that there will be cut backs even at the national level. I have heard that we may be down as many as 100,000 youth? If this is true it isn't hard to do the math 100,000 @ $10.00. This year here in our council donations were down. In fact only one district met the goal, the same district was the only district to meet its popcorn goal.( Must have something to do with having the best looking DistricChair!!) Many of us seen that things were not going as they ought early in the year but were "put in our place," With sanguine tales and over optimistic predictions. While no one likes to hear "I told you so". At the board meeting this week the report showed that there $30k needed to balance the budget.Thanks to a unanticipated bequest we will be ok. However, looking back over the past few years if it had not been for some sort of a windfall, we would not have had a balanced budget. It is all well and good to stand around and say what didn't happen, but at the end of the day the buck has to stop with the guy at the top. The Scout Executive. He or she has got to take responsibility for the budget and meeting it. It may be that I am an old fuddy-duddy and there are some that will say that I'm a royal pain in the rear. But I firmly believe that while thinking out of the box is all well and good Scouting works best when we put our efforts into program. If the boys/youth are in a good program they will bring their pals in with them, parents will talk to other parents. Of course the more youth we have to sell popcorn the more popcorn we can sell. The more youth we have the bigger the impact we have in and for the community and the community will then support the program and the council. This may sound very simplistic but it works. Eamonn

"Lets all get up and dance to a song that was a hit before Old GreyEagle was born ...." Good job Thanks for bringing a smile. I had just read some really bad news. This was great. Eamonn

Sturgen You are of course right on the money. Many of the leaders that I know seem to know the words. In fact I knew them, I was just having a hard time understanding them and making them work. Even some of the best leaders I know slip back every now and then. At times we will blame the group of Scouts that we have or something else. I could say more but it's late and I have to work sometime. Eamonn

Much as I don't like to see people at odds with each other. Much as I know at times I have posted when I have been tired or feeling a little bit cantankerous. I think that maybe by signing it would be sending the wrong message. I for one am very grateful that Bob White is here. I really do think that he knows and understands this program. I have been in contact with him outside of these pages and even when we disagree we have managed to do so in a Scoutlike and respectful manner. FOG can at times be mildly amusing. However there are times when I think that his sole purpose in these forums is to get as many jabs in as he can. That isn't to say that he is always wrong. It could be that he was scared by a plumber while he was being potty trained and his only recompense is to take his ill feelings out on others. Whatever his reasons for being here are his. So I can not in good faith sign. Eamonn

Strange as it may be the Wolf Cubs back in the UK did have a reqirement to tie a parcel with string. None of this tape stuff. I have many a good lunch of quiche washed down with a pint of Gunniess. Eamonn

Hey Oz At least if she buys them herself you don't have to wrap them. Eamonn

How come a guy who can tie all sorts of knots, pull the perfect pint of Gunniess,use a knife at speeds that scares the bejeebers out of most people. Not wrap a Christmas present? Her That Must Be Obeyed has gone for the day. With her out of the way the timing was right for filling in all those pesky rebate forms and getting the stuff wrapped. All the stuff that is needed is in place and ready for use. I know it all works I watched her wrap a mess of stuff the other day. First I don't know why the people who make the boxes and the people who make the paper can't get together. I end up with way too much and have to cut it, then after cutting I find that it is a tiny teenie bit too small. Then that tape, it sticks to my fingers and itself real good stick it on the paper and it grins at me and curls up on itself. After the first three or four boxes and two or three rolls of paper I was sick to death of the Christmas music. If Burl Ives had told me to have a holly jolly Christmas I would have told him where to stick it. So I put Legend on by John Lennon, it does have So this is Christmas on it. By the time Working Class Hero came on I was ready to quit. Life used to be so much easier I would leave home jump on a number 11 bus go to Sloane Square nip into Peter Jones Department store spend my money. As I did they would keep all the stuff and wrap it for me when I was done I would tell a sales clerk who would phone to have it waiting at the door. The doorman would hail me a taxi and I was on way home presents bought and none of this wrapping. Am I Gift Wrapping Impaired? Or do others suffer as I do? Eamonn

As long as things keep rolling along we are moving house in Febuary.So January will be a time of sorting stuff out and maybe giving a lot of it away. We are moving into town a small ranch type house with only 0.5 of an acre. This will be hard on Shane the collie and Joey the English Setter they are used to having lots of room to run. Her Who Must Be Obeyed has said that the spare room will be set aside as Eamonn's Scout Room. So setting that up will be a challenge. We are off looking for a Summer/Retirement House in Ireland this summer. That ought to be fun. My stint as Council Training Chair ends in 18 days, so that ought to free up some time. I have been asked to serve on the area committee with a view to help set up the region contingent

Seems we are spending some time looking back so I though that I would change it a little. 2003 will soon be over and 2004 will be with us in two shakes of a lambs tail. What plans and goals do you have for the up and coming year? Eamonn

Not sure why? But this reminds me of Dickens A Christmas Carol. Marley is dead. I think that OGE and I are on the same wavelength. While reflection and self assessment are good. I don't want to dwell in the past.Everything that has happened to me or I have done, seen, heard or read has left me with something. It really makes no nevermind if it was good or bad or if I was right or wrong.Much of it has gone into making me what and who I am today.Some things may have been of my own making others happened with or too other people. Eamonn the guy who is nearing the half century has taken life as it came. Yes plans were made and at times goals were set, some were reached others got lost in the haze of living. Still not to be to much of a stick in the mud. I would like to share something that has stuck with me for a long time. It comes from a prayer book that got lost in a move a long time ago. A young man was passing a church the sign outside was black with white lettering. It read "Live Everyday As It Were Your Last." Lord, I wanted to change that sign, make it white with big black letters that would read "Live Everyday As If It Were Your First." If I were to go back I think this is what I would want to hear. Eamonn

I think that I might be a tiny bit wrong. As for a Lad doing stuff before he becomes a Scout. It might be that the requirement is something that he has done. I don't have a reference at hand, but if the requirement is to hold some sort of a certification and he has it, then I think it ought to be ok. Eamonn

Ok so it's been a long while since my days with the pack but I thought that only the Webelos Scout Den Leader could sign off on Webelos Scout requirements? As for doing stuff before you join the troop? I don't know if there is anything in black and white? But it don't sound kosher to me. Eamonn

Thanks Fuzzy I like that and will store it for future use. Eamonn