Eamonn

I was going to add my 2 cents worth but in fairness to cjmiam, I will spin off Eamonn

When your Boss cools down. You might want to ask him how he would feel about leaving his little fellow with someone who hadn't been checked out? One of the other parents might have a history that might not be that great. I feel that if he is willing to share his personal information with Mr Patel in India to get that new car loan, isn't his kid worth at least the same? So far this is the first that I have heard about someone getting upset. People have asked why? But when I explained the reason behind the form they were only too glad to grab the pen. So as far as I know we have not lost any families. We may have scared off a few perverts. Eamonn

One great thing about this organization is that light and truth are not hard to find. Of course if the new DE doesn't work out I will advise him: "Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules." Eamonn.

Seems that we are now looking at ways to measure the quality of a unit not counting the BSA Quality Unit requirements. While at times I know people have some sort of sentimental attachment to a unit. I know I have to the 17th. When people get together the very first question is who was your Scoutmaster. Units have their ups and there downs. I strongly suggest that these ups and downs are regulated by the quality of leadership. I bet that if there was a unit that had kept accurate records over the last 50 or more years, we could trace the times when there was quality leadership in place and when there was poor leadership in place. If these records contained the minutes of the PLC meetings, we would see that more then lightly the troop had more activities and did more when the leadership was strong. We might see that membership was higher when the leadership was strong. We more then lightly would see no minutes at all when the leadership was really weak. When I visit a troop I can most of the time tell if the Troop is a quality troop within minutes of walking into the meeting. Sometimes I can tell before I even enter the hall. Eamonn.

Thanks for the help I will order the video on Monday. Eamonn

While I am in no way defending or out to put down Food Service Companies. I think that you might find that they are working to a menu that they have been given and or they are working within a budget that has been set by the Council. As with most things you get what you pay for. However while most Food Service Companies do try and hire the best people that they can, because of many camps only being open for the summer and at times the location being so far away from everything their choice of workers might not be that great. A good cook or chef will make a world of difference. The problem with a lot of vegetarians is that they try to be too nice. They "Don't want to cause a fuss." The poor guy who is doing the cooking would more then lightly love to make a fuss or at least know what you want. If no one tells him, he will keep serving salads and plates of the vegetable du Jour. If it happens to be Baked Beans -Oh Well. I can not stand peanut butter. When I was taking a course at Hawk Mountain I had put this on the form that I returned to the camp. One night the cook served a peanut butter pie for dessert. I would have been happy to skip dessert, but low and behold he came out with a chocolate pie for me. I made a big fuss about how nice it was of him to do such a nice thing and went a bit over board telling him what a wonderful job he was doing. He became my new best friend and at sometime during each meal would come out to see what I thought of the meal. Things went great till one night he served a salad with hot bacon dressing. It was a mix of bacon fat, sugar and some sort of vinegar that had all been boiled up and thickened with flour or way too much corn starch. Everyone hated it. But sure enough out he came and asked about the dressing telling me it was a local specialty. Being the good Scout that I am? I lied and said how wonderful it was. The next day when everyone else got normal salads I got this stuff - Reheated!!He informed me it was always better the next day!! When the week was over I nipped in to say thank you and as he was a smoker I had bought him a carton of cigarettes as I went to leave he gave me a quart of the Hot Bacon dressing to take home with me. My beloved Mother in-law informed me that it was a depression dish. I said that you only needed to taste it and you would be depressed!! I gave it to her and she loved it. Eamonn

Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation is a very basic introduction for a adult who does not necessarily need to be a uniformed Leader in how to organize and run a family type camp for Cub Scout families. Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training is for Webelos Scout Den Leaders. The wants and needs of Webelos Scouts are different then those of Boy Scouts. Their program is different then that of Boy Scouts. How they camp is different. Boy Scouts are youth led, Webelos Scouts are not. Please do not think that Webelos Scouts are little Boy Scouts - They are not. While the ILOS, is a great course for Webelos Scout Den leaders to take if they are preparing to move into Boy Scouts and take Boy Scouts to camp. It is not the course to take if you are planning to take Webelos Scouts to camp. Eamonn

Packs Merging. As far as I know this just can't be done. The Chartering Organization "Owns" the pack. So unless the Chartering Organizations merge, it just can not be done. It has nothing to do with how big or how small any of the packs are. Or what the Leaders think. Sure you could all leave one pack and join the other leaving behind everything that belongs to the one pack. Ever Leader would need to fill out a new Leader Application and would need to be approved by the new pack. I wonder what message you would be passing on to the youth. I wonder if I would think that the leaders were living up to the Scout Law? No!!Change that, I know what I would think. Eamonn

Quality District is not easy. That old Nigerian saying about It taking an entire village to raise a child. Rings very true. While Them There District Folk, at times are seen to be full of cow pooh!! Everything they do is done with the Scouts in mind. The Goals that have to be reached do involve a lot of people and these people are a very diverse bunch. The goals involve raising money. In fact a lot of money. Our FOS campaign is split into three parts District,Family,and Community. The District goal is easy I just pass out the cards and hope that the members of the District Committee will come through. While it is not a requirement that you donate to sit on the committee it is expected and the expected level of giving is $500 per family. Many if not most of the committee members pledge this and take the installment plan. The Community Campaign is where the bulk of our money comes from. I have to admit that this is one area that I am really proud of. Working with Pam, we have over the years really built this up. We have the greatest Community Chairman in the world. I was pleased when this year he was awarded the District Award of Merit. One thing hat I like about the Community Campaign is that it grows. Unlike the Family Campaign which can have its ups and downs the Community Campaign just keeps getting bigger. Rarely if ever once we have a company or person donating do they refuse to give the next year. In fact many of those who do donate can and do when asked become "Workers" and will work five cards. At the $175. level of giving we invite people to the "Dinner". We have had a lot of luck asking people and companies to "Buy" a table for $1200. The community campaign is reaching a lot of people in the community and next year I hope that we will have our own newsletter that will be sent to them twice a year. Showing how the money was spent. I also host a dinner at camp for all the community captains where they come up and see the money in action. The Family campaign is where we ask the units to invite a presenter to come to a COH or a B&G and ask the parents to support the program. This year we have blown our goals out of the water, thanks to a far better then expected Community campaign and Family campaign. While we can understand the reason for the community improving, we have yet to find out why the Family campaign went so well. We also have special events at present a golf outing which while a District event is called the _______Health care Event. A friend of mine who is a Doctor undertook it. He invites drug reps and other Doctors. Some of the changes in the law about what Doctors can and can't accept as gifts have been a windfall for us. We also have an Outstanding Citizen Dinner. We have kept the cost low at only $75.00 per person. It has become more of a roast then we had planned, but is a super night. Membership is a goal. We are to end the year plus one in every program area and have one more unit then we had at the end of last year. At this time or should I say this time yesterday!! When I got the membership report from the office, we needed 6 Boy Scouts, 0 Venturers and 35 Cub Scouts. I know there is still Apps that have not been turned in. I know of a new Crew with 20 members that will be in the office on Monday. So We WILL make it. I would like to get at least another 43 Cub Scouts on top of what we need. That would make up for half of the ones that we lost half year. Membership is a tough nut to crack. Membership is made up of Recruiting and Retention. Recruiting is very time consuming and very expensive. When I asked the chap who runs our local Cable TV office for an amount (I needed it for project sales) It was over $22k!! We have tried all sorts of new ideas and new things but we seem to be stuck in a rut. The number of boys that get signed up at school sign up night is fairly constant. What never fails to amaze me is the calls I get after sign up from what I hope will be new Tiger parents. The calls are in answer to a letter that I wrote six years ago explaining the benefits of being a Tiger Cub, we just keep "Recycling" it. Retention is a lot cheaper and a lot more fun. Not allowing a charter to go into the office until all the names that have been crossed off have been called is really paying dividends. The Unit Leader knows that we are going to do it and many are now trying to beat us to it. My hope is that they beat us every time. We are going to be a Quality District this year, there is still the popcorn, but I took a peak at what the units ordered for what used to be the Blitz (Show and Deliver). And it looks great. Many hundreds of people will have done something to make the District a Quality District.While a handful have done it because I asked most have done it because they believe in what we the BSA stand for and what they hope we are doing and will do for the youth in our community. At the Volunteer Recognition Dinner in March, the Council President will present the key3 with Quality District plaques. I'm not much of a plaque lover, but I sure didn't like not getting one last year!! I felt that I had let the side down. As I normally am the MC for the dinner I'm thinking of playing We are the champions, by Queen, then again We will Rock You might be a better choice. Eamonn

Hi the information you need is on the Jamboree Web page, which you can get to when you visit the National site www.scouting.org. Last time I looked I thought I seen it was only 50 miles. The Jamboree is a great place to visit. You might want to time your visit for to coincide with one of the big shows either the opening or the closing. The President who ever he might be does have an invite to attend. Four years ago he was unable to as the show was delayed and he sent a taped message. While having the President visit the Jamboree is a great honor for those there and for the BSA. I feel the security involved will be a nightmare. So you might want to avoid that day. Of course these shows are at night and if you have a young troop them getting back to where ever you are end up at a late hour might be something that you might want to think about. Eamonn.

Was it only just over 3 weeks ago that I posted this? So much has happened and is happening in so many areas of my life both at home and in Scouting that I'm having a hard time keeping up. Along with saying good bye to Pam, who I will be asking the District Committee to make a Member Of The District At Large, with a view to her joining the Finance committee and helping organize special events at present the District Golf Outing and the Outstanding Citizen Dinner. Which bring in a little over $10k. We are also losing our Field Director. While it is fair to say that he and I were never close and I have him classified as a first class twit. His going did have me wondering who would take care of training the new DE? With the help and advise of two very wise and wonderful friends, both who do post in this forum. I think I have all my ducks in a row. I am not responsible for this new DE. I didn't hire him and much as I hate people who say "It's not my job" Training him is not my job. We have hired a new FD who starts on November 1st. While the relationship that I had with Pam was that of pure friendship. At times us being so close as friends did get in the way of things. Many times I went to bat for her on things that if it had been anyone else I would have left alone. The new DE might or might not become a real friend. My boss and I are friendly, we share somethings. I know his wife's name, where she works. His kids names and that he has a dog and he put a new roof on his house last year. At times we both get on each others nerves and while we are friendly I know that he has in his power the option of making life a little less comfortable for me and I know that I can always choose to leave. If I did that would be the end of that. We would if we met each other on the street still say Hi exchange a few words and both go on our merry little ways. In time the new DE and I will have a similar sort of relationship. If it ever develops into what Pam and I had? Only time will tell. My "Agenda" for the District is that we meet or pass all the requirements needed for Quality District. There is one area in the District that needs special attention and I would like us to improve our presence there in every way. More units, more money more everything !! I am going to keep plugging away on the quest for Quality District and this plan to improve Scouting in that area no matter who the DE is. It makes no difference to me if the DE is here for a long time (3 years?) Or a short time that work will go on. While I can offer ideas and suggestions he is free to take them or leave them. Sad to say I am not nice enough not to say I told you so. I would expect the same from him. If he is gay that is up to him. If he starts telling people. I will have no choice but to think that he is "Avowed" and report it to the SE. He is the one to decide what is to be done. I have started the idea of selecting a new District Commissioner. Not because of this but because the Commissioner Staff is just not working under the current leadership. It might be that the Nominating Committee with the Council Commissioner are unable to find a better person for the job then the guy that we have now. That is up to them. As for the way he dresses or presents himself, I hope that his bosses will give him a few hints. Again for me to do so would be me over stepping my duties. Eamonn.

I at times remind Her That Must Be Obeyed, that I'm the answer to her prayer. Strange thing is that while we make light of it and make a joke about it, as we grow older and get nearer to middle age -Whatever that might be? It seems to become more apparent that it is true. How come a kid from London met a Lass from Pennsylvania at a Boy Scout Camp? That Great Scoutmaster in the sky, does his best to Train us, Trust us and let us lead, but I think at times he might be guilty of giving us the odd nudge. While I'm certain that going home is the best. Now you have something that you can bring with you. You can't see it smell it or touch it but it's your's. Eamonn.

Hi Committee Chair, I can't help thinking that if we were in the same unit that there would be fireworks. That is if I were the Scoutmaster and you were the Committee Chair. I if I was the Scoutmaster, would be at the PLC meeting to guide and support the members of the PLC. When and if they came up with the trip to Hawaii. I would question the wisdom in such a decision. As the Scoutmaster I would have and would be training the SPL, and the PL's in the art of representing the group. As for you "Telling them" I would in the politest way that I know tell you to "Butt Out". I sure as heck don't want a Committee Member telling the Scouts what they can and can't do. Even as Scoutmaster I wouldn't do this unless it was something that the something was an activity that the G2SS stated was not allowed. I am sorry to say that I would see your telling the Scouts as interference. As for the timing of events and activities, I would hope that I would have taken care of avoiding clashes when the PLC met to do the annual plan. When I look at the vision statement of the BSA I see that is talks about Fun and adventurous activities. This to my way of thinking leaves a very wide field open for the PLC to choose from. I would I hope have during the time I spent training the members of the PLC, covered the promise that we make to each and every scout as stated in the Boyscout Handbook and would have suggested to them that this might be their guide when it came to planning activities. While the Patrol Leaders will have held Patrol meetings and would at a meeting of the PLC be representing the members of their Patrol, the boys from the poor families and the boys from the wealthy families, the PLC would I would think be made up with Scouts with a group that was a diverse representation of the troop membership. I see your role as a committee chair as supporting the PLC. If you started turning down the activities that the PLC had met and agreed on, and offered them a list of alternatives. You would have my resignation that night. How could I ever Train them, Trust them and Let them Lead. If at every turn you were Telling Them? I am not saying that everything that they do will be 100%. I will bet my last dollar that you and the committee could do a wonderful job. But my job as Scoutmaster is developing leadership. Scouts learn to lead by leading. We can after the activity reflect on what worked and what didn't. Scouts can't fix things that went wrong if they weren't the people responsible for doing it. It comes down to trust. If you don't trust the Scoutmaster to do his job, when it comes to rechartering time replace him or her. I know that if this over riding the PLC was going on I would doing my up-most to replace the people that were allowing it to happen. Eamonn

I do not agree that the SPL ought to attend the Troop Committee meeting. We have meetings for the adults that are adult meetings and we have the PLC and Patrol meetings. If one of the roles of the Troop Committee is to support the PLC is their a need for the SPL to attend the Troop Committee meeting. If the CC is unsure about something he can talk to the SPL and the SM at a Troop meeting. Many of the items that might be on the Agenda of a Committee meeting are not suitable for youth members. Eamonn.

I think I must be playing this game to a different set of rules!! I see the role of the Troop Committee as supporting the PLC. Not Editing. Not doing anything but helping make what the PLC decided become real.As for you forcing your will? Poppycock!! It was the will of the PLC. If you don't stand up for what these Lads have come up with why bother having a meeting. Don't you think that you might be a bit top heavy in the Troop Committee department? Parents supporting the troop is great but it seems that every family has a vote? Just a thought. Eamonn

Hi, Is there anybody out there that really understands the District Election Procedures? I understand the purpose. Except the bit about electing District Members at Large. I don't understand the responsibilities of a District Member at Large. Is there a difference between District Members At Large that reside in the District and those that don't? I understand that the District Chairman will 90 days before the District Annual meeting will submit the names of the Nominating Committee to the Council President for his approval. If we want to replace the District Commissioner, the Council President may ask the Council Commissioner to sit on the District Nominating Committee. Does he become a voting member of the Nominating Committee or is he just there to help in the selection of the new District Commissioner? At the Annual Meeting can a motion be made to elect Members of the District At Large before the Election of officers. This would mean that they would be eligible to vote along with the existing Members at large and the COR's? Does the Chair of the Nominating Committee have to be a paid up registered member of he BSA? Have the rules changed in the last ten years? Thanks, Eamonn

Strange things happen. I seem to have lost about half of my last posting. The rest of the Scout Law was to be there!! But as it happens I don't miss the half that isn't there. A while back Hazing was the topic. There seemed to be no end in sight. A long time ago I found that Q&A time with Cub Scouts can be a real waste of time. It starts off OK and then you get the kid that asks" What happens when little green men from another plant arrive on Air Force one and they want to..." Here we are adults in this great program. With a whole bunch of ideas that work and have worked for a long time. We have for days looked at if a rich kid or a poor kid gets more or gets less out of Scouting. I think that I'm about done with this topic. As I look at the Scout Oath and Law, I don't see any advantage of being rich. Maybe a kid that is really poor might gain a better understanding of being Thrifty, out of sheer necessity? Both the rich kid and the poor kid have equal opportunities,when it comes to the aim of Scouting.Both should be able too Be Prepared. Both should be able to do a good turn daily. Maybe the rich kid could put more money in the plate, but maybe the poor kid knows more people who need a good turn? Heck, if we can get the rich kid and the poor kid to do all this stuff, have some fun. Participate in the odd adventure. Working on the methods should be a piece of cake. Eamonn.

I can't help feeling that I am missing something? At first I didn't go to the link that was posted. It didn't seem that important. As I read the postings I thought maybe it was a photo of Philmont. It wasn't!! The photo is of what looks like a older fellow repelling or abseiling. As far as I can see there is no title or credit given for where the picture is taken, who took it, or who the guy on the rope is.While this sort of activity is or could be listed as High Adventure. Do we know that this picture wasn't taken by the troop that meets 200 yards away from this rock? I clicked away on the word Boy Scout I found all the good stuff from a fact sheet "What is Scouting" I clicked on Activities and there was a lot of choices. Family Fun had a few nice games that families could play. Of course there is a need for electricity, an inter-net connection and a computer. There was a nice page about project COPE. I know many Councils have invested a lot of money building COPE courses. Scouts who attend Summer camp in our council who meet the requirements can sign up to participate in the COPE program. The Council does offer financial aid for to those who need it. It is possible that some Scouts could attend Summer camp for very little or at no cost. There was a page about Climb On Safety. This covered Climbing Walls and Repelling towers. We offer these at summer camp for scouts who meet the age requirements. There was a page on Leave No Trace. There was a page on Adventures for older boy's. This covered a lot of the reading material that is available. It did make mention of the National High Adventure bases. There was a page on Nationally Approved Historic Trails, I looked up what was in our area. If you lived close enough you could use these at little or no cost. There was a page that linked to the Council High Adventure Bases. I looked at a few and found the cost to be in the area of $250 for a week. Or with two years notice about $2.50 a week. There was a neat page about Order of the Arrow involvement in Cub Scout Camping programs. There was a page about the National Jamboree, which is not cheap. However I have $800 in grant money that no one seems to want. I don't see any sort of over sale. But as I said I think that I must be missing something. Eamonn

Hi I really dislike what the adults who offer this sort of thing are doing to the program. Trying to fix something that has been in place for a while can be difficult. To my way of thinking you or the Scoutmaster has 3 options. 1/ Do nothing. Leave everything as is. 2/ Lay down the law and tell everyone the way it is going to be. Kinda like "My way or the Highway!" 3/ Look at where the troop is today. Look at everything. Uniforming, Advancement, Equipment, adult support, The Troop Committee, Trained Leaders. Everything. Take the time to write down what he sees. A kind of State Of The Troop Report. The list is more then lightly a long list. He then should work out what he sees things like if everything was perfect. From this he should be able to get some long term goals and some short term goals. He then needs to share these goals with the Troop committee, the other adult leaders and the PLC. If advancement is the one that he wants to tackle first, he needs to work with everyone to come up with a plan that will lead up to the goal. This might at first mean that MB "Classes that were the back bone of every meeting are cut back. It might mean that the troop stops offering as many "In House" Merit Badges and starts asking the Scouts to use the District Merit Badge List. It might mean asking the PLC to come up with Troop Meeting programs that cover MB requirements without having the classes. The activities are "Hidden" in games and Patrol meetings. Camp outs should allow a boy who is working on a MB the opportunity to work on it. If he is working on cooking or camping. Requirements can be covered in service projects. The way it is presented is very important. Eamonn.

I am not going to join in the debate about horses. At a very young and tender age while attending Holy Cross School, we staged a Christmas play. Some Kids got to be Angels, others shepherds one lucky boy got to be Saint Joesph, three lucky little fellows got to be wise men. And I got to be the ASS!! To this day I can still smell the inside of the Ass head, and you try singing Christmas carols with a Asses head costume over your head. Could it be that Mr Bob White was aware of this when he posted "Somebody dressed as a horse"? Is he in league with Sister Mary Matthew? Will all the dark secrets of my past life come back to haunt me and be posted in this forum. Will I get a bill from the London Diocese, for the wine I snitched when I was an alter boy? Still back to the Thread. I think that Quality Leaders are people with vision. People who put dreams into action. In another thread it seems that the Methods of Scouting are being questioned. To my way of thinking Quality Leaders are aware that the methods are there. They see the words and try to understand them. They see where they and the troop is at today. Some of the Methods should take very little effort or at least it seems that way at first glance. Scouting Ideals, is an ongoing never ending journey for all of us who have ever taken the Scout Oath. Giving our Scouts the opportunity to see how they can live up to these fine ideals, by placing them in positions where they can show and prove to themselves that can be people who can be trusted,loyal,helpful,friendly,courteous,kind, obedient,

A little while back in another thread we spend a little time looking at what we understood to be the program. Many if not most of the people who post in these forums were in agreement that program is what happens at your weekly meetings and what you do with the youth while they are in your care. While I agree wholeheartedly that a good sense of humor might be a characteristic in a leader, I sure as heck would not select a person to be a leader because he her she was considered to be fun by the boys. A bad leader is a bad leader. We can send him or her to training and we will have a trained bad leader. The District I serve covers part of Fayette County. A county that every agency there is has in some fancy jargon or another deemed a poverty county. Please look it up and see how low he median income is, how high the unemployment is. How few of the residents graduated from High school let alone college. Yes the Dunbar Mountains are part of the district that I serve. At a very heated FOS meeting, where goals were being set and the SE wanted the goal for that area raised our DE lost it and said " These people don't have teeth let alone money for FOS." In the thread on uniform someone said that the where there is a will there is a way people were becoming a pet peeve. Well my new pet peeve is leaders who want to use the fact that hey do their Scouting in a poor or depressed area as some form as a crutch. The packs and Troops in Fayette County, provide a Scouting program for the Kids in the program. Just like the Packs and Troops in Westmoreland County which makes up the other half the District. We have Troops and packs that do an outstanding job, Packs and Troops that do an OK job and packs and troops that do a rotten job. Packs and Troops in both counties have times when they are at an all time high and times when there is concern about their very survival. The cause of these highs and lows can be directly linked to the Leadership. The area doesn't change that much, the chartering organization doesn't change. The Leader changes. In one Troop we had an outstanding leader, he was with the troop for many years, his son went through the program and became an Eagle Scout and soon after things at home went bad. He divorced and left the program. The troop went down and down till it was in danger of closing. The leader remarried and along with the new wife came a stepson, soon both he and the stepson were back. The troop now is about the best in the council. Bill the Leader is an old time Scoutmaster, he knows how to play this game. With Bill the Patrol Method is not just a method of Scouting it is Scouting. I watch his interaction with Scouts and I stand in awe. I know of only one other Leader who is that good a friend of mine in the UK. I have as a lifetime goal to be as good as these two guys. Everything we do in this organization leads back to the mission and vision statement. Sure the games and fun things are what keep our Scouts coming back. Sure the Leaders don't work alone a good Leader will surround him or herself with people who are good at what they do. Just as a Den Leader will bring in experts from different fields to talk to the Cub Scouts, and will leave the finances and stuff in the hands of the Pack Committee. I can't help feeling that the time to stop whining and start Scouting was yesterday. Eamonn

My experiences with Leaders who have taken Training's is a little different. Most of those who attend get a Scouting "High". Comments like 'Gee this works!!" and " I want to try this" are often heard. The sad thing is that when they get back to the home unit, they are never given the chance to put the new ideas and methods that have only been around for about 100 years to work or for some reason they just don't put it into practice. The other week I was up at camp for an OA weekend. They had managed to get a Dunk Tank. Which in a fit of mindlessness I allowed my self to be the dunkee!! (They were raising money for Conclave.) The tank was set up whee we had done some of the pioneering projects on the old Wood Badge course. The course was held in 1999. As I dried off, after having been dunked a few times. A Scoutmaster who had been a participant on the course came over and started to reminisce. He said how much fun he'd had and what a great time it was. When I asked if he had done it with the troop. He smiled and said "No" When I asked why? He didn't have an answer. Attending the training's is great. But attending the trainings and putting what you have learned to work is so much better. Eamonn

I thought that it might be an idea to look at Quality Leadership. In the other thread it seemed to me that many of those who posted (Me included) thought that Quality Leadership can overcome many if not most of the hurdles that are already in place or may pop up. These hurdles or obstacles can be there because of the socioeconomic nature of a area. It seemed to me that somehow the discussion became focused on areas that were poor and children that came from poor or financially challenged families. I don't know why but I can't help thinking about the Gilbert and Sullivan. On one hand there is " A policeman's lot is not a happy one" On the other hand there is "I am the perfect model of a Modern Major General" Just add the word Scouter in place of Policeman and Major General. I do think it is worth noting that nearly all Leaders face some sort of problem. I happen to live in an area where it seems everyone has their own pet organization and when asked to become involved with the BSA, say that they are busy with whatever their organization is. Children of wealthy parents might have more opportunities to do more activities and not have time for Scouts and Scouting, the same might be said of their parents. Some hard facts that some leaders have a hard time coming to grips with: You are not super-human. None of us are. Trying to do too much is a very dumb thing to do. Find out what your skills are and what you like doing and do it well. Her That Must Be Obeyed, doesn't like kids. Send a Den of Cub Scouts to the house and leave them there for 90 minutes and I don't know what would happen. She dislikes crafts and that sort of thing. There were times when I was Cubmaster when we needed help with the Dens. She was free but she knew that she would hate it.She became the Pack Treasurer and was wonderful at it. Scouting is for Boy's. Our job as Scout Leaders is to provide a Scouting Program for the youth in the program. We are not out to save the world or the families of the Scouts. We need to read and re-read the Vision and Mission statements along with other material from the BSA and focus on what we are supposed to be doing. Training Never Ends. Sure you have taken all the courses. You have worked your Ticket. But whatever happens don't stop. A few things that a Quality Leader needs to remember. Check your Resources. When I first attended Wood Badge back in England I swore if I ever heard "Check your resources one more time, that I would be sick. Resources are all around us. We need to open to them. Parents can be a wonderful resource. People who belong to the Chartered Organization and other Organizations are resources. In another thread someone mentioned that stores have helped them out with craft supplies. Take or Make Time to See where you want to go. Set long term plans and short term plans. Set Goals/ steps that will lead you to your goal. Write them down. Share them with others. Every now and then take time to reflect how things are going. Communicate, Communicate, Communicate!! The list could go on but this is a start. Please add your feelings or what you think makes for Quality Leadership. Eamonn

Just as an after thought. I suppose there does need to be some sort of a time line. While I agree that people of vision can and do make a difference. Everyone has to start some where. If the Leader is surrounded by people who don't buy into the vision and are content to not offer what the Leader sees as where we are heading, it could be a uphill task. Changing what might have passed as a Scouting program to an effective scouting program, more then lightly will not happen over night. While this is slightly off the subject. I hope that Bob will bear with me. I had lunch with our VP program the other week. He said that he was waiting for the guys from National to come and draw up the plans for a new Cub World.This was the first that I had heard of this and I was shocked. I started going on about how did he expect to raise the money for a Cub World, when we were having such a hard time just balancing the budget.He looked at me and smiled. He then said"If I don't have the plan, how can I ever ask for the money." He is a sly old goat, but what a great leader. How often do we see on TV or in Scouting Magazine tales about people of vision. People who saw things as they were and made it their mission to change things. Some time back KS posted that the kids where he Scouts don't get the big summer break like the Scouts around here do. Running a summer camp along the lines that most of us are used too, just wouldn't work. So he came up with a plan that would work. There are of course times when we have to be flexible in some areas. I hope that I have never said "It's not in the rules." Unless it was to do with YP or the safety of our youth members. In fact I can't remember seeing having been said in these forums for a long time - But I could be wrong. Eamonn.

The Question is: " Can a effective Scouting program be delivered to a community regardless of its economic and social make-up? Hidden in these words are a lot of other questions. Some of which Bob has already given his views on. I am not going to try and answer them in any sort of order as I don't think like that. While this might seem like splitting hairs, the community has got to have a need for a Scouting Program. Areas change and we need to be aware of the changes. While all of my trips to Florida have been to the Mouse House, I have been informed that there are areas that are made up of mostly retired people who have no need for a Scouting program. The area of London that I am from has over the years changed from a middle class area to a place where the family houses have been made into apartments which sell for about $750k. These people don't have kids and over time the Scout groups have gone and sometime this month the District will go. Scouting in London is changing mainly due to areas not having enough children to make offering a Scouting program work. While I have no way of backing this up, I think that finding leaders from the new people would be very difficult. "Effective Scouting Program" I kinda think if we were to ask 100 Scouters to define what an Effective Scouting program is? We would get a lot of different answers. Still the Book answer is that we do our best to make the Vision Statement and the Mission Statement of the Boy Scouts Of America a reality. The Vision statement talks about offering young people responsible fun and adventure. Instilling in young people life time values and developing in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law. Training young people in Citizenship,service and leadership.It then says about serving America's communities and families with its quality , value based program. The mission statement tells how the mission of the BSA is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. This is a real nice Vision and Mission statement. I would think if you were to meet with any Community leader and say "Hey this is what I want to do." You would be welcomed with open arms. Still I think to be effective we need to get the youth to join. We need to offer them Fun, and Adventure. We need to give them opportunities to put the words of the Oath and Law into action. We need to provide opportunities for them to practice leadership. The we need list grows and grows. I suppose that we could muddle our way through. Still that word Effective? We have the Law and Oath We have the Mission and Vision Statements. We might want to look at what the aim of Scouting is. The aim of the Scouting movement is to build youth into quality citizens by: Building Character. Fostering Citizenship. Promoting Fitness. To help us on our way we have the methods of Scouting. Armed with all this we can start thinking about delivering an Effective Scouting Program. Or can we? There is something missing? Yes we need Leaders and other interested adults. We also could do with an organization that shares the same values that we do. If this organization is part of the community that we hope to serve, so much the better. If the Leader knows the community this is also a help but not a requirement. The Leader knows that in the vision statement it said about serving the community and the families. He or She is going to work with the families and the community. Unless he is a complete moron he/ she will know what the social and economic forces are in the area.He or she will do what he can to bring the words of the vision and mission statement to life. He or she can be a person who sees things as they are and choose to muddle through and make do with the resources on hand. He or she could do that in any community. He or She could examine his or her values look at where things are today and think what things he would like to change. Bringing these changes about could become his mission, setting realistic goals to bring these changes about bringing more people on board that will share in his mission and help reach the goals is what being a true leader is all about. Baden Powell had a vision that Boy Scouts and Scouting would bring about world peace. He was very upset when Germany started to rearm for the second world war. Long before that he seen the gangs in the streets of London. In Aids to Scoutmastership, he laid out his plan. People bought into the idea. The idea grew. So even if things didn't work out exactly as planned he still ended up doing a heck of a lot of good. Sure when the King asked him to resign his commission he could have said no thanks, I'm happy here in the army. He could have taken the easy road. But I am sure glad that he didn't. Of course things don't happen overnight. But a couple of things that I have learned during my time on the planet is that you need a plan and it never hurts to ask. Eamonn