Eamonn

I am not so sure about stressed. Although you might be right!! I think maybe a little disappointed in the people who can't work this all out for themselves. You don't need to be clever or wise to know how to turn the other cheek or just let it go. Disappointed that they want to drag me and the District into something that we couldn't do anything about if we wanted to. Many of these people deal with young children every day or at least once a week. Surely they see how young kids can be in each others face one minute and the best of pals a few minutes later. If we the adults don't go making things more complicated. I wonder how much fun these people can be having? Unless of course their idea of fun is some sort of conflict with someone else? I wonder if they aren't having fun how can provide a fun program for the Lads in their unit? Or the Boys and Girls in the crew? Maybe I'm a little mad at myself. Here I am saying "Now, now." When if the truth was to be told what I want to say is "Get a Life!! Grow up!!" Maybe I should try it? But I know that I couldn't. I have sat at meetings and argued and debated stuff, with me on one side of the argument and friends of mine on the other. It at times does get hot and heavy. Sometimes I win and sometimes I don't. At times I end up doing the very thing that I may have argued against, but was out voted. At the end of the meeting we all stop for an adult beverage and at times there is some friendly leg pulling. But nothing is worth losing a friend over. I know that next time I win I will be the leg puller. And will really enjoy it. Eamonn

I enjoy Scouting. I have said that the day that I stop enjoying it, will be the day that I quit. I really enjoy summer time. I'm not that big on holidays, although the kid in me loves getting presents.But summer is my time of year. I hate being cold and wearing all those heavy clothes and dealing with that horrible white stuff. Summer is when I get to spent a lot of time with my son. He doesn't need me as much as he used to, and I suppose I should get used to the idea, that one day he will need me even less. Seeing Kids at camp is a very important part of summer. Seeing them use all the stuff that I in some small way made be there. Stuff that was discussed and debated at long and boring meetings is there and is being used. Seeing kids have fun at summer camp, hearing them laugh, watching them work in the different areas. Looking at the staff and thinking back and remembering the Lads that no so long ago were attending their first Day Camp. While we don't have as many meetings in the summer, we are busy getting stuff ready for the start of the new program year.There is a lot of stuff that needs to be done and a lot of it ends up being done by the key3. One thing that seems to happen over he summer is that I don't get as many phone calls or E-mails from the uniformed volunteers. I think this must be because they are busy doing stuff with the Cub Scouts, and Boy Scouts or they are away doing stuff with their families. We have our last Roundtable of the "Year" in May and then have a big Corn Roast in August. This is the meeting that gets the best attendance of the year. We hand out the Council Calender and go over the important stuff that is coming up. We also have an ice cream social, where we go over the plans for Sign-up Night and this year for the first time did a popcorn training. By September we are back in the swing of things. Sad to say this year our District Commissioner had to go and visit his Mother, who is in bad shape. So a lot of the stuff that he does seemed to come my way. This past couple of weeks I seem o have had more E-mails and phone calls from adult Scouters who are not happy with one and other. One Lady who is the COR had a disgruntled Den Leader who was leaving because they weren't following the BSA rules. We never found out which rule was in question. But the COR was not happy. I said the best thing to do was nothing. Then the Den Leader went and became the Cubmaster of a pack down the road and it seems was saying bad stuff about the pack she had been with. Then there was the Cubmaster that had been asked to leave one pack and wanted to join another and they didn't want him. Then there was the Commissioner that had got a new job and was recommending that a guy who had been asked to leave another District to take his place. Then there is the DE who isn't happy about the plans that the SE has in place for her retirement party. And so the list goes on. Scouting is a game. I keep telling myself that. Every now and then I remember to add that it is a game with a purpose. Some person a lot wiser then myself has said that Scouting is about three things.It is about Fun. It is about values. It is about learning. Fun is the game. Learning is the process and values are the purpose. I think finding people who can keep these three things balanced are a God sent. It very often seems to me that our Leaders especially the ones in our District seem to be unable to do all three. We have the Leaders that seem to focus on one of the three and not the other two. I'm not sure if playing the game is easier or harder when you have to deal with adults? Of course this leads up to the very big question. Am I playing the game? I know that adults that don't seem to know how to play together annoy me. I try to be nice but I'm unsure if maybe I'm not letting my feelings show through? I like to think that my values are intact. I also like to think that I pass on a little something to those around me. I think that I have not forgotten how to have fun. Sure I know that I am in no way perfect.Still how come all these people who are in this game with me, people who are passing on values. How come they all seem to be a little bit nuts?? Eamonn.

ED, I sure as heck don't like the word "Forced." Uniform is a method of Scouting. Like all the methods, there is no force used to make anyone use or not use them. Sure there are helpful people from the district tat might look in and say "Hey Ed if you were to do such and such things might go a little better. You as the Scoutmaster do not have to take their advise. Uniform, like the Patrol Method,Advancement Method, Outdoors,and all the other methods are there because it has been found that they make the program work better. If you as a Leader set a goal of having all the Scouts in the Troop wear uniform and worked at it using imagination and whatever help was/is available. I feel sure that all the members of the troop would end up in uniform. It might take a little time, it might take some hard work on the part of the boys, the leaders, the troop committee and if you could bring the chartering organization in on it so much the better. A Scout uniform is a tool of Scouting and is just as important as the tents and camping equipment. I agree with the Beaver Guy, while there may be the extreme cases of units where the members are are so poor that getting a uniform can be a challenge. However most of the people I see not wearing a uniform are not these poor unfortunates they are Scouts who have one and just don't want to wear it or they belong to a troop where the Scoutmaster has informed the parents that they "Don't have too." We of course set the example. I didn't win very many friends when as Training Chair. I refused to allow the people who were going to be presenters to present without a full uniform. I wasn't forcing them to wear one. But to allow these people to go on without a full uniform would not be setting the example that we need to set. People are free to spent their money any which way they choose. I have to admit that I get upset when someone tells me how much they have spent on a new golf club or new gun, they normally go on to tell me how great it is. But ask why they don't have a pair of Scout pants and they will inform me that they are just too expensive. As you know I am not a great lover of rulebooks and that sort of thing for our Scouts. I do think that all the adults in a unit need to set the example and wear full correct uniform when uniform is required. While I would never send a Scout home for not wearing a uniform, I would have no hesitation about sending an adult home. Sure the guy who has been delayed and isn't wearing a uniform, but the guy in a Scout shirt and a pair of jeans!! What message is he sending to the Scouts? There can be circumstances, that arise that makes wearing a Scout Uniform to a Scout meeting really difficult for our Scouts. At one time some of the Lads in our troop, were being beaten up on their way to the troop meetings. Some decided to leave their uniform at the Scout Hall and change there. The situation was resolved. I think I have an idea how, but I didn't want to know then and have never asked. So while owning and wearing a uniform is not a requirement for membership, and we could choose to hide behind that. I think everyone would be a lot happier if we set having everyone in the unit wearing a uniform as a goal and work toward it. If they have one and are not wearing it we need to find ways of making them want to wear it. If they don't have one and can't afford it, we need to find ways of raising the money and getting them a uniform. Or finding uniforms that they can wear. I have worked with a lot of adults in Scouting and I know that once they set their sights on something they can move mountains. Uniform and having a uniformed unit is a very worth while goal, which can be reached without any force. Eamonn

We as far as I know have never used such a thing. Her That Must Be Obeyed, loves to walk away from a COH with not much to sew on. In fact when this happens she has been known to skip away and treat both the Nipper and I to a Dairy Queen. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Hey Zippie explain that to me. I was having problems with six year old Tigers. At this rate you will have a seven year old Bear A eight year old Webelos Scout and he would go into Boy Scouts at nine? Help?? Eamonn

Thanks for the help. I have spoken to Her Who Must Be Obeyed and she has tried to explain the workings of the School District. I tried my best to look as if I was getting it!! Eamonn.

I need to do a better job of keeping up with the times. I had never heard about a PLB, before now. I can't see too many units around my area buying one, because of the cost. However if they were going into more rugged terrain then we have around here and these were available for rent. I think that they might be interested. Still with a $25k fine for setting it off by mistake, I know of a few Lads who I would have second thoughts about them being the ones entrusted to carry it. Come to think of it I know a few adults as well!! Eamonn

I know that I can be confused without too much effort. But can you have seven year old Lads in the Wolf Den. I thought that seven year old boys were Tiger Cubs. If we have seven year old Wolves don't we end up with Webelos Scouts that earn the Arrow Of Light at nine and a half? Just Checking. Eamonn

Sad to say it was me who first mentioned non-white Scouts in the uniform thread. Boleta was right when he was kind enough to bring to my attention that race doesn't play any part in whether a Scout wears a uniform or not. I don't like to think that I am in any way a raciest, at least I try not to be. In everything I do I try to give everyone the same respect and treat them all the same. I do also have to own up to not buying into all the sad stories about poor kids who can't afford to do stuff or buy stuff in Scouting. I believe that we offer everyone opportunities to raise the money that will pay for their participation in the program. I know that some people will think that this is harsh and might go against "Help Other People At All Times." I feel that we are doing the children that we serve a dis-service when we give them handouts. While treating everyone with respect should go without comment. We as an organization are not color blind, nor should we be. The Scout reach program is going out of its way to bring more minorities into Scouting. One has only to look at this months edition of Scouting Magazine and see the Scout Reach Soccer program which is aimed at and for Hispanic Children in the hope that they will join Cub Scouting. At the District level we have gone out of our way to work at recruiting more black youth into the program. As an organization we embrace our diversity, we don't try and pretend that we are all the same. We do know that everyone from every race brings something to the table. Baden Powell is quoted as saying "Show me a badly uniformed troop and I will show you a badly uniformed Leader." He never mentioned if they were rich or poor. Our entire program is in the hands of the people who are the Leaders, I have seen Leaders who tell their Scouts that if it is there and you want to do it - Go for it you can do anything you aim for. On the other hand I have seen Leaders who say to the youth "It's too expensive you can't afford it!!" We should never underestimate the determination of a young Lad who has set his sights on a goal. This determination can cross all socioeconomic lines and boundaries. As Leaders I feel we need to be overjoyed when a Lad sets a goal for himself and do everything we can to support him. Eamonn.

Please forgive me I did not intent to Hijack the thread. I just thought it was odd that a child of 7 was at camp. In our Council Boys recruited as Tiger Cubs in the spring can attend Day Camp. However at this Day Camp, they don't earn any Badges. The Awards, mainly a certificate of participation are awarded on the last day of the camp. Even at Resident Camp, the boys don't earn that many awards maybe the belt loop for the shooting sports, but I doubt if a little fellow of 7 would pass the requirements. It does sound as if the pack has a lot of problems. ambana, what is your position in the pack? I see that you say you are a concerned mother. I was just wondering if you were also active in any other way? It does seem that you are worried about how things are going in this pack. I know that if I were in your shoes I would be looking for a new pack. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Boleta You are of course right race should not come into play. BadenP You said that "I think you need to re-examine your Scouting methodology." I pointed out that Uniform is one of the methods of Scouting. Call me mean spirited or what ever name you want. But I just don't buy into the idea of poor kids that just can not find a way of acquiring a uniform. Yes there may be parents who don't want to pay for a uniform. These parents come in all shapes,sizes, colors and socioeconomic group. I say that we as the adults in Scouting offer the Scouts opportunities to raise the money. How many Troops raise money to send Scouts to camp or buy new tents? I contend that a Scout Uniform is a tool of Scouting and we should do everything that we can to get 100% of our Scouts wearing 100% uniform. Eamonn.

I could get that new BMW after all. All I need is everyone to send me a message, I will tell you how much you didn't win and you owe me that amount!! You might be the lucky person that didn't win the $5,000. Of course everyone is a winner and can send me the cash. While this wouldn't be endorsed by the BSA, the Moving Eamonn would really like to offer everyone the opportunity to be a big winner. Please make checks out to ME. (Just Joking) Eamonn.

I am sorry BadenP Uniform is a method of Scouting. While I am sure that there are cases in which a Scout for some reason can't afford a uniform or can't acquire one. It is my thinking that these cases are the exception and not the rule. I know Scouts that have full uniforms that choose not to wear them. ( I know because these Scouts attended the National Jamboree, and wore full Scout uniform.) I have ran a troop in the inner city, where most of the Scouts lived in the projects. The troop was over 60% non-white. Yet we managed to get all of the Scouts in full uniform. Sure I agree that a Scout can live up to the ideals of Scouting without owning a full uniform. However if we were take a ride around the District that I serve which is by no means wealthy. We would see that the better troops regardless of family income are the troops that use all the methods of Scouting, which does include uniform. Eamonn.

Thank you OGE,trying to keep track of the same subject in 3 different places was a chore. As I posted in the now closed Thread I am all for people paying their own way. I did try and view the member profile of ambana to see if the advise that we offer might be more specific. Not knowing what position she holds in the pack could make some of the advise offered meaningless. I am a little unsure how a little Lad of seven years old has already attended summer camp? While I know this can happen it is not the norm. Pack Finances are a strange animal. Strange because every pack seems to have a different way of managing them. While I in no way pretend or even dream that the way pack 155 managed their finances during the time that I served as Cubmaster. Here is an outline with some added comments from myself. While I was Cubmaster, all matters regarding fiancs and money were in the hands of the Pack Committee. The Pack did have a Committee Member that was selected to serve as Treasurer. In our case the person they selected was Her That Must Be Obeyed. She remained Treasurer long after I was gone. She did a great job keeping the books, but at times was not very flexible. She came up with a set of rules that the committee accepted and she stuck by them. Three people from the Committee were selected as "Check Signers." Two of these signatures were required. None of the Pack Leaders were allowed to be on this list. She had a rule that unless there was a dire need that she would only write checks at the monthly meeting of the committee. When I first took on the role of Cubmaster, OJ had been in the pack for a little while and I was hiding at the back of the hall, so I wouldn't be asked to do anything!! Needless to say it didn't work. The pack had no budget and the entire program seemed to revolve around Cub Scouts selling stuff. All the money went into the pack account and this paid for all the pack expenses. The Den Leaders did collect Den Dues of 25 cents a week. After a while it seemed apparent that we were doing way to many fund raising events and some of the parents were upset that they were "Carrying" the Cub Scouts that didn't participate in the fund raising events. Most of our Cub Scouts attended he School that was part of our church and the school had a lot of fund raising events. Most of the Cub Scouts also played Soccer and the Soccer Club also had a lot of fund raising events. The leaders sat down and worked out the Annual plan for the year. As Cubmaster I done my best to work out how much the program was going to cost for each Cub Scout. I didn't include Cub Scout Resident Camp. The amount covered rechartering, Boy's life, Day Camp, District Events, Pack Trips, the Pack Picnic. It was one heck of a list. This was presented to the Pack Committee, for their approval. As a rule they took the list as it was. We then totaled how it up and divided the total by how many Cub Scout we had in the pack. I can't remember the exact amount I think it was at that time a little under a $100.00 per child. The parents were then informed that the cost was $100.00 and they could opt to do the fund raising events which we whittled down to two: Pop Corn and a frozen Pizza Sale. Or they could pay the $100.00 over time. If they wanted to do the fund raising events the first $100.00 went to the pack. Some parents paid the $100.00 and still did the sales to pay for resident camp. Den dues did increase to 50 cents a week. However the Den Leaders complained that collecting them was a pain. Boys forgot them, lost them and all that good stuff. So went to having the Den Leaders collecting a $2.00 a month. Which was an increase for the dens as most only met 3 times a month. There were Cub Scouts that we help with the cost of resident camp. Families that had more then one boy in the program. We had one family with four boys in the pack and both parents. If there was a family that fell behind in the $100.00 It was left to the Committee members to contact the parent and see what was the reason. Most times they chose to inform me. But there were times when they didn't they felt that I didn't need to know. I was fine with that. They were the Management Committee. That is how we managed the pack finances in pack 155. Looking at the problem at hand. I feel that the parents of this Lad need to contact the Cubmaster or better still the Pack Committee Chairman and explain that $100.00 at this time would cause undue hardship to the family and might mean that the boy would have to leave the program. If the family and the boy are willing to participate in the pack fund raising events, they could use that money to pay the money that is needed. I as a parent would very tactfully question how the matter of $100.00 was communicated to the parents. Did I miss something? Was it brought up at a meeting that I missed? Why and how come I didn't know about it? While at times we all use the Den Leader to be the messenger. I don't think that the Den Leaders should be involved in the "High Finance" aspects of the pack. Bottom line is that I feel sure if the parent starts communicating with the right people which might not be the Den Leader? Something can be worked out. If it can't then I would be looking for a pack that has more open lines of communication. Eamonn.

I agree with everything that Bob has posted. I have never seen this Scratch and Win ticket with coupons. I have seen them where you win different amounts of money. Both seem like a game of chance to me. Eamonn.

I have served on our Council Camping Committee. When I was on the District Camping Committee. I was there as the District Representative for Cub Scouting. I have to admit at that time Cub Scout Camping was looked upon as the poor relation of that committee. We now have a Boy Scout and a Cub Scout Camp promotion video. The Boy Scout video is available for Scoutmasters to show as they please. The plan was for each troop to have their own copy. Promoting Boy Scout camp at this time is not that urgent as the numbers are really good. Many of our troops sign up for the same week at the same site next year before they leave this year. This is good for the Camp, but I'm not so sure about being good for the Scouts. We do have a high adventure committee that plans Council expeditions to the high adventure bases. The Cub Scout numbers are not that great. At this time we ask the packs to invite the Cub Scout Camp Promotion Team (In our District 3 Cub Scouters who have enjoyed Cub Scout Camp.) To a pack meeting. Normally one of the team attends armed with the video. Which he shows and then answerers questions and leaves the parents with a handout. Cub Scout packs can also request the Cub Scout Camping Place mat to use at their Blue and Gold. This is free and has all the information about Cub Scout Camp. In the spring there is a special edition of the Council Newspaper that goes to every Scout or Cub Scout, it outlines the programs offered at camp the cost and details about what to take and what not to take. While I no longer sit on the camping committee, I think that we need to rethink summer camp. We spent a lot of time and money getting the Scouts to go to camp but seem to forget that they are paying guests. They are customers and we need to treat them as such. Cub Scout packs seem to either support the idea of resident camp or opt to ignore it. As none of the activities offered are Pack Activities, we might do better to sell the idea of Cub Camping to the family of the Cub Scout and not focus on the pack. We used to have a 1 on 4 leader to boy ratio, but for some reason went to a 1 on 5. I don't know why. Last year the Cub Scout Camps started on Saturday not Sunday, this meant that adults staying didn't need to take as much time off work. I hope this helps. Eamonn

Best of Luck with the ordeal. Welcome to the forum. Eamonn. Which doesn't rhyme with Amen, so far as I know no one has ever been strung up for trying.

Hey Dan, That looks Her Who Must Be Obeyed on a bad day. (I hope see never sees this or it will be more then her finger that she points at me!!) Eamonn

I agree that we adults "Grow Into" The methods. My great hope is that the up and coming guys get it a lot quicker then I did. I suppose we have all met the Scout Leader who thinks that all Scouts should be able to do whatever and thinks that a Scout who can't has no business being a Scout. While I have to admire them for the skill that they have, I do question how good a Scoutmaster they will be. Of course I don't say this out loud. There has been a couple of forum members who have posted that they see their role in Scouting as their Ministry. While I respect them and am trying to understand them. I have never seen what I do as anything that noble. I joined this outfit to have fun. I was 8 years old and loved playing games with a group of kids my age. Sure we did the other stuff but I stayed in because it was fun. As I grew older I stayed in because it was fun, adventure and it challenged me. I became a leader not because I thought I owed anyone any sort of debt. I just wanted the kids in the area to have the chance of having as much fun as I had. As a young Leader I never gave the methods of Scouting a thought. We just done stuff because we always done stuff. Uniform was expected this expectation led to it being the norm. We had always done stuff as patrols so here was no need to change. It did take me a few years to really understand that giving the Patrol Leaders real authority, meant more then having them carry out my orders /wishes. They were supporting me. Not me supporting them. There is a heck of a difference. Adult Association wasn't hard we had a lot of active ASM's. I did need to do a lot of growing up to ensure that I was the adult. When I first became a Leader I tried really hard to be "One of the boys." I tried to be one of them. They didn't need that they needed an adult who was a real friend, but never forgot that he was the adult. Strange as it may sound this doesn't always have anything to do with age. I thought the world and still think the world of all the Scouts that were in the troop. I like to think that I was a good friend to all of them. As a friend and an adult I did at times have to tell them things as they were. And of course being a "Real Adult" did make having to say No a lot easier and a lo easier for them to understand. If I had a thing it was Scout Pioneering, we did a lot of pioneering and camping. So outdoors was never a big challenge. Looking back, Scouts from other troops would ask why our Scouts had so many Merit Badges? I can put my hand on my heart and say that we never ever worked on a Merit Badge. Our program was such that by just being in the troop and doing stuff many of the requirements were covered. The Scouts knew and understood how the Merit Badge system worked and they were encouraged to use it. Sure if a Scout needed to do something as a requirement we would bend over back-wards to do it. The greatest pay check we get in this organization is seeing a Scout move from "I can't do that" To "I can". We see it all the time in the big things like planning a hike to the small things like getting up and doing a skit at a campfire. We as real adults are the safety net. We are there when he tries something and fails. We never ever set him up to fail, that is wrong. But not everything will always go right. Not everybody will do what you expected them to do. And yes sometimes it will rain when you leave your poncho at home. Yes lists do help. It is a shame that so many Leaders are greedy and don't want to share their Scouts. We have a whole bunch of people who are good at what they do and are willing to work with Scouts as Merit Badge Counselors, but still I talk with Eagle Scouts that earned all their MB's at Camp or "In Troop". Leadership Development, was the method that took me a long time to come to grips with. I think my big problem was my ego. I knew best. Everything was I. Sure an outsider looking in would see an active troop, Scouts with MB's and rank advancements coming out of their was-zoo. But when it really came down to "Who is in charge?" The answer was the wrong one. Our method of Leadership Development is as far as I know what puts us apart from other youth organizations. It takes a lot of looking in the mirror and asking the guy that you see the hard questions. Are the Scouts really in charge? Are they just using lasts years plan with a few small changes? Am I ready to be a servant leader? Still if Scouting was to be my ministry. I would start with the ideals. Eamonn

Money is such a pain. You haven't given any details about the family or how much money is involved or needed. While many of us have had times taken money out of our pockets. This really is not the answer. I do not like the word discriminate. I would love to buy a new BMW. At this time it isn't in my budget and Her That Must Be Obeyed would kill me. Still I don't think that the BMW company is disseminating against me. Sad as it might seem when we are dealing with money we have to put emotions aside. I know nothing about this boy or his family. If the family needs money I know of lots of people who need odd jobs done that they would gladly pay the going rate for. If the boy is old enough, I feel sure that there are people who will let him wash their car or pull weeds at more then the going rate. While our family is not rich, we do have a few bucks. Still my son is expected to earn half the cost of all his outings, some of which are not cheap. I am not in favor of handouts. I don't think that we ever want to teach our youth that not paying your way is OK, and "It's alright someone else will pay". To my way of thinking this stinks. Eamonn.

Troop sells popcorn. Council pays 40% commission. $300.00 in sales will pay for a uniform. Scout sells 20 cans of popcorn at @15.00 each. Sell 50 cans and you have about paid for the year. Eamonn. PS. Moral is A Scout is Thrifty, he pays his way.

Other then E-bay and placing an ad in your Council newsletter or on their Wed page. I don't have any brilliant ideas. Hey Hops, do you think if Unc were to start doing a few push-ups it might build him up? He could of course join me in my diet which is based on dough-nuts, coffee and other liquid refreshment. Eamonn

I agree with the idea that Troops and most units in Scouting be they packs, districts or whatever do go through cycles. I think that KS said that he had inherited a Troop where uniforming wasn't a problem. I don't think any of us would question why the Scouts have opted to do this we are just happy that they do wear it. Beaver,has said that because of the low numbers in the new troop that he serves there is at times disruptive behavior that needs to be addressed. The lack of Scouts makes using the Patrol Method difficult and holding a PLC almost impossible. In this case the adult leaders will have to "Lean" a little harder on some of the other methods. I wholeheartedly believe that these methods can and do work. At times making them work is not the easiest way of doing things. Sometimes we say what the heck and do something that the Patrols could and should be doing because it is a lot less hassle. Some times we go ahead and plan this great trip that we are sure everyone will enjoy without going to the PLC. Worse still we get upset when everybody doesn't enjoy it or it turns out to be a flop - After all the work that we put in for them ungrateful Scouts!! Yes believe me I have heard stuff like that. I have to admit to being a little jealous of Acco. I would love to take that course. I am thinking that trying to put one method above the others is like asking a Scout which Scout Law is the most important. Still I can' help thinking that the ideals has to be top of the list. Eamonn

Not all the same methods are used in all the programs. But as all the programs are age appropriate, to make a big deal about this would be splitting hairs. I have to admit that I have always held Scouting Ideals above all the others and Acco40 has got me thinking. It could be that I have seen so many units that choose to make one method seem more important or choose not to use one that I have become confused. We have one Troop in the District, that rarely goes camping other then to attend Summer Camp. The Patrols are just lists of names. No PLC meetings, poor uniforming and all they seem to do is work on Merit Badges. The Church that charters them seems happy enough. The boys in the Troop seem happy with what they are getting and the parents seem happy. Everyone seems happy, but I don't see what they are doing as Scouting. I'm not sure what it is but it isn't Scouting. I could tell lots of stories about Troops that don't use the methods and yet still have the idea that what they are doing is Scouting. Of course when you talk to them about this all you ever hear is that we have always done it this way. Eamonn

As a key3 we look at all new units. That way we hope to avoid any surprises. A new unit will normally need special attention. The District Commissioner needs to find out when and where they meet in order to assign a Unit Commissioner. I like to meet with the COR, face to face and invite him or her to the District meeting. We also look at what sort of organization the Chartering Organization is. We had one group that belonged to an organization called NERO. They do some sort of battles along the lines of Lord of The Rings. We were unsure if the values of this organization went hand in hand with those of the BSA. We invited the top guys in the organization to meet with us and the SE. The SE had the final word, but if we hadn't met with them there would have been things left hanging. At rechartering time the commissioner staff go over all charters and the DE signs off on them. If there are any that are questionable we look into them. Beaver I think that maybe the idea is to have this Association be like the VFW or the PTA, the Association would have local chapters and these would become the chartering organization. I can't help thinking about the story of the 3 Little Pigs and the Wolf. But not knowing what a Venturing Association is? I could be way of base. Eamonn.