Eamonn

I can only echo the welcomes. Back in the day!! In July or August we held our Pack Annual Planning Meeting. This was the only meeting of the year that was allowed to run over 90 minutes. Armed with the Themes for the year (Taken from the Program Helps.) The first order of business was to agree on the Theme for each month. As a rule we would stick with the theme, but at times we would go with our own. I remember one year the Program Helps had Indians of someplace, we changed it to fishing!! Each den worked on something to do with fishing and near the end of the month we had our Pack Fishing Competition. We had as much information as we could get about what was going on when next year. Pack Events, other than the monthly Pack Meeting which was same time, same place September through May. Were put on the Calendar. In our case we had: B&G Banquet, Scout Sunday, Pine-Wood Derby (We used to do this at a pack meeting, but the pack grew!! So it became a Saturday event.) Pack Picnic, Baseball Game, Different parades (Fireman's Parade and that sort of thing) We added the District and Council events: Day Camp, Resident Camps, Parent and Son Camp, Cub Scout Olympics, and any other stuff that came along. As I was active with the District I pushed District events and made them a budget item. Looking at all this the Calendar was already kind of full. Each Den would then come up with their own trips working within the theme. These trips were not part of the pack budget and either came out of the Den Dues or were extras. Some colleges and museums offered classes in stuff, but this was down to the Den Leaders (With the OK, from the Pack Committee) Now and then out of the blue someone would come up with an invite or an idea that wasn't on the plan: Free Tickets to the Zoo or something like that and we were never a pack that looked a free trip in the mouth!! I can't help but think a outing each month along with a pack meeting each month would slow things down a lot a Den meetings. Eamonn

I tend to agree with fotoscout. With so much now riding on Quality and the quest to be Quality it is sad that some people forget that this is the BSA. We had in our Council a Field Director that to put it very nicely was very creative. I do feel that National was aware that some of the membership reports that they were receiving were less than accurate. I think this is way the 2% growth was done away with. This did close a lot of the loop holes and make it harder for unscrupulous people to cheat. Depending on how Councils have set up their Scoutreach programs, Scoutreach has become the Mecca for cheating. I find it hard to believe that any volunteer Unit Leader would want to waste money registering non-existent members. Why would he or she want too? The time for taking a long hard look at Quality has been needed for a very long time. The penalties for those who cheat should be very harsh.I have a friend in the National Office and he has a plan which as far as I know is just his idea, it spreads Quality over a 3 year period, with slightly different requirements. Reaching Quality District, does require a DE to work very closely with the volunteers in the District. Over the last eight years we have missed being a QD only twice. I don't like not reaching goals and have been upset when we didn't make it. People at every level have said to me that you can't be quality every year. This year 2005 is going to be a very tough year. Last year we had every unit recharter, this year with the packs still to recharter we know that we have: One Crew that moved to another District,Two Crews that are gone, A Troop that has been dieing for a long time and might go this year, and a Special Needs Pack that isn't going to recharter. That could leave us needing to start six new units.We have a couple of Crews that are really struggling.When I look at the Units that we are going to lose, I can't help but look at the two crews, these were units that were started to help the District make QD. They were started because "Crews are easy to start." Sure they were real and at the start there was an initial burst of enthusiasm, but it was very short lived. I am not proud when I think that the District was responsible for helping get these units off the ground, but no one at any level did anything to deliver the vision or the mission of the BSA to these kids. We were happy that they started, happier that they rechartered for 3 years. But it is really sad that we are sad not because there is a bunch of kids that aren't getting the program. We are sad because it is so darn inconvenient for us and that we will need to replace them. We have a new young DE, who is already saying "Crews are easy." The Good Lord knows I am in no way holier than anyone, still I can't help thinking - Here we go again!! Eamonn.

< I don't think Learning for Life has any business teaching ethics to students (particularly atheist and gay students) as it's a wholly-owned subsidiary of an organization that discriminates against them. > Merlyn, Old Chap, Come on you can do better than that. While I don't agree with a lot of what you stand for, you do most of the time put forward a good argument. What you are saying is much the same as saying "I don't think that Philip Morris had any business making cheese" That was of course before the parent company for Philp Morris and Kraft Foods became Altria. As I have posted in the past I don't like my donation to the BSA to be used for LFL, because LFL doesn't stand for or meet the values that I hold dear. Eamonn.

Strange how some posts from others are so close to home. At times me thinks that OJ is out to set the record to be the Scout who was Life Scout for the longest time in history!! Her That Must Be Obeyed, has made it very clear as only one who must be obeyed can!! That she wants him to complete his Eagle Scout project. I honestly would like him too, but he has got to want too. OJ, and your's truly can at times be a little dense, but we know when hints are being dropped. Notes on the fridge do get our attention!! Father Jim and the Pine-wood Derby car reminded me about how bad our cars were. One year I left it till the night before and at around nine o'clock OJ and I finished panting the thing. OJ really liked spraying the silver paint. Come morning it was still tacky. Her Who Must Be Obeyed thought she was being helpful when she gave it a blast in the microwave oven!! The paint bubbled and blistered, I was mad, OJ was upset, the silver paint was gone but we found that gold paint dries a lot quicker!! Eamonn. I hope She doesn't get the idea of locking the fridge - Were she to do that, the needed Eagle project would be the fastest in history!!

The trainings are good and go with you. You might want to find out about things that are different in your new locality. So you might want to retake the outdoor training. Eamonn If nothing else you get to meet the new and up and coming leaders.

Hailing from England's green and pleasant land, I take a fair amount of very good natured leg pulling about tea. While I can't find anything to back me up, I think that I read somewhere that the Irish drink more tea than the Brits. As a child growing up with Irish parents I know that tea was the beverage of choice in our house. Fizzy drinks were a very special treat and I can't remember adults ever drinking them unless they were mixed with something a little stronger. I have been trying to count how many cups of tea a day my Mother drank and I'm coming up with about 18 cups a day. At home we used real loose tea, teabags were never welcome. Sad to say when I moved over to this side of the pond, I found the tea so bad I just stopped drinking it and prefer coffee any day of the week. Tea time can be whenever you stop for tea. However, it has different meanings in the UK. Working class and the lower classes had a big meal at lunch time. Lunch even in factory canteens was normally a two or three course meal. This was served at around noon. When people got home they didn't cook a big meal (Even school lunch was a two course meal: Meat, Potatoes, two vegetables and dessert.) So the meal at about five or six o'clock was a light meal. The higher classes didn't eat Supper until eight o'clock, so they had tea at around four or five. This was a very light meal with tea and maybe just a slice of cake or cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off. Some restaurants served High Tea, which was a bigger meal. Eamonn.

I had heard about this sad report, and make reference to it about a week ago in a thread about Popcorn and Quality District. The sad thing is that it was brought to my attention by my Community FOS Chair. Then it seems that it was in a local newspaper that serves the other end of our Council. It seems that John Doe is acceptable in some Scoutreach Units that would have a transient population. I am almost sure this isn't something that un-friendly people have done, in fact I wish it was!! I of course have no idea how a Council ends up in such a mess. What is bad is that people like my Chairman start to ask questions. I know that we in our District are not carrying any paper units and to the best of my knowledge all the youth members are real. I don't know what goes on in other districts, I really have a enough going on in my neck of the woods to spend time finding out. Eamonn.

I have used the information from the medical forms that Wood Badge participants have sent in to ensure that participants with special needs are accommodated as well as could be: Near bathrooms, Sites that require less walking, a seat near the front and so on. I contacted these participants before the start of the course to try and get some idea of how much or how little help they might need. I also contacted people with dietary restrictions, to find out what they expected from us. Hunting for Soy milk in the back of no where is no fun, and yes it has happened!! At times it is a tough call, I remember one Cub Scout Wood Badge, where the Cubmaster had put all the less than able bodied participants in one Den. They quickly worked this out and started calling themselves The Wounded Foxes. There are some handicaps or illnesses that are never mentioned. There seems to be more and more diabetics attending Wood Badge, most when I called them and asked if they had any special needs, said that they were OK with watching what they ate and other than us being aware they needed nothing from us. I had a guy who had just had a surgery which left him suffering from very bad diarrhea, he just needed to be in a site close to the bathroom. We have had people who have a real hard time getting from point A to point B, we don't allow cars on site so they had to be transported in the camp truck, by one of the QM's My goal when I was a Course Director was to have the participants get the most that they could out of the course. If that meant meeting their needs, we done our best. Medical Forms did a lot to help me meet the needs of each participant. The forms and the information that they contained was shared on a need to know basis. After I had contacted the participant. The forms were kept in the camp health lodge and returned after the course. Reading health forms is not up there as one of my favorite activities and I have to admit that some people who had listed something on the form were very uneasy talking about it on the phone, when I called. Life would be so much easier if we brought back the 30 day meeting. Eamonn.

The Cub Scout Leader Book, does a good job of explaining who does what in a pack. The Pack Committee selects the Cubmaster and the COR approves or disapproves the selection. At this time your job is to provide the best possible program for the Den that you serve. Don't allow something that isn't really your responsibility to distract you from what your job is. If the Cubmaster is not doing the job as described in the book and it is harming the program of the Den that you serve, you should bring it to his attention and the attention of his Assistant at your next leaders meeting. Let the Committee do their job and you do yours. Eamonn.

OGE, is right about him and his interests. If he is serious about wanting to help a troop, it would make more sense to introduce him to a troop that needs help. If he just wants to hike and camp, maybe he might want to think about joining an organization that just hikes and camps. I would see about setting up a meeting with him and a member of your district key3. Eamonn.

3 Years ago I was staffing a six day long Wood Badge course at the other end of the state. As always seems to happen that last day at work was never ending. Meetings ran over, just about anything that could go wrong was going wrong. I was driving up with a friend from our Council. I phoned him and asked if he could stop at my house and pick up my kit and then pick me up from my office. He agreed, it was on the way anyway. Mike, my friend said how great it was that I had packed the night before and had my uniforms laid out. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I had called Her Who Must Be Obeyed and she had done it all. God Bless Mommies. Eamonn.

While our Scout Exec. And I have and do have the odd head butting sessions. I am ever mindful that there is a need for money and the amount does go up every year. I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to have to sit down every year and do the Council budget. No one -not even me wants to see the services that the Council offers cut. It would be great if Scouting just happened in some Fairy Rockwell Like Land, but that is never going to happen. I think most Scout Execs.would be a lot more relaxed if they weren't trying to meet payroll from month to month. Eamonn

Merlyn, old Chap, Please don't let this become an on-line reenactment of the Argument Sketch of Monty Python fame. I am happy to hear where you are coming from. I may not agree with you, but as the title of this thread reads, there are some things that I just don't get. You posted: Would you point out to the school that they have to practice religious discrimination when they charter a BSA unit? I've actually talked to a school principal who was also the chair of the Three Rivers District in the Viking Council whose school had a Venture Crew; he said atheists and gays could join Turns out he was wrong. I replied by saying: Every new unit signs the New Unit Application Form. http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-402.pdf'>http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-402.pdf It clearly states the BSA policy. I went on to say that: The information about who we are and what we stand for and how we do business is available for the asking. Most of the pertinent information is on the New Unit Application Form. Just for good measure I added: I will admit that I didn't cover all the BSA policy's on everything. I didn't cover smoking, or guns or homosexuals or Go-Karts. I did let them know where they could find out more information about Scouting and the BSA. Just to be a right royal pain I also added: By signing the application they agreed to abide by the Scout Law and Scout Oath along with the Charter, bylaws and rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. About two hours later you asked: Eamonn writes: Every new unit signs the New Unit Application Form. http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-402.pdf It clearly states the BSA policy. It does? Where's the part about gays not being admitted? I thought that I had covered that? Can you please explain how it is wrong that I meet with a representative of a group, who has requested the meeting. I being the nice chap that I am meet with him provide documents that say that all adults must agree to abide by the Scout Oath and Law. I tell him that if he needs more information he can request a copy of the bylaws and charter of the BSA. I am in no way coercing him. I am not trying to hide anything. Any and everything that he needs to know is out there. Is it the fault of the BSA if the school principal failed to read what he was signing ? I do agree that I didn't cover the homosexual policy.My thinking being that unless he had been living on some other planet, he would be aware of all the fuss. My employer uses different vendors. Once and a while we change vendors. The reason for the change is not up for debate. All I get is a memo stating that as of such and such a date we will cease buying from company A and will start buying from company B. There have been occasions when people who work for the same employer as I do, don't like the change and they continue to deal with company A. I think the guys that continue to do business with company A are at fault. I fail to see how the blame can be put on company A. Looking at the HUD thing, first the charter is not in HUD's name. But if HUD employees are informed that they are not to enter into agreements with the BSA, and they go ahead and do so anyway, isn't this the same as the guys who continue to do business with company A? If school districts know that chartering BSA units is not allowed, the ruling is their ruling not the BSA ruling how do you see the BSA as being dishonest? If school districts are told not to enter into agreements with the Bobby Fischer Chess clubs for whatever reason and they continue to do so. Is Bobby Fischer at fault? Please don't get back to me by telling me about what cases might be in the courts or what the ACLU is doing. I really would appreciate if we could keep this where we are and I would like to see how you see what the BSA and it would seem me are doing that is dishonest. Eamonn

Every new unit signs the New Unit Application Form. http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-402.pdf It clearly states the BSA policy. When I do get involved with starting a new unit I do make a point of going over the form. I just don't understand how it can be said: "yet they still dishonestly issue charters to government agencies"? I owned several bars over the years. In the state where I live it is illegal to sell alcohol to someone who is visibly intoxicated. There is no law about selling alcohol to an alcoholic. Over the years that I operated these bars people that I knew had a problem with alcohol were my best customers. They were my bread and butter. There is a question of ethical standards, I tried to rationalize my selling it to them by telling myself that if I didn't sell them alcohol, they would just go some place else. I also knew that my staff wouldn't sell them one too many and would do everything possible to make sure that they didn't drive while intoxicated. I fail to see where the BSA is being dishonest. The information about who we are and what we stand for and how we do business is available for the asking. Most of the pertinent information is on the New Unit Application Form. While I can't say what goes on elsewhere, I do know that in all the units that I have been involved with starting, everything is done in the open, there is no secret meetings. We do have two Scoutreach packs, that are chartered by Community Centers and the Community Centers are under the management of HUD. They (The people running the Community Centers, came to us. They wanted to use our program. I asked if they knew if what they were doing was OK with HUD,I was assured that it was. How could I or the BSA be at fault? I asked what to the best of my knowledge was all the right questions. I armed with the paperwork provided by the BSA, at no time made any false representations about where the BSA and our Council stand. I will admit that I didn't cover all the BSA policy's on everything. I didn't cover smoking, or guns or homosexuals or Go-Karts. I did let them know where they could find out more information about Scouting and the BSA. The charters are in the name of the Community Centers,because that is the way that they wanted things set up. They chose not to share very much information with me about the inner workings of their organization.By signing the application they agreed to abide by the Scout Law and Scout Oath along with the Charter, bylaws and rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. We now have two packs where once there was none, the little Lads and their families are growing closer and having fun. I don't see that I have done anything dishonest Eamonn.

Fuzzy Bear, Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure that I understand what point you are trying to make? There are times when I don't think that I'm missing something. There are times when I really don't think that I see eye to eye with another forum member. This doesn't make me right or someone wrong. It sure as heck doesn't make anyone bad. It doesn't give me the right to treat anyone in an Un-Scoutlike way. I hope that I haven't acted in a Un-Scout way. Eamonn.

So if we were to agree that the BSA does discriminate. Where does the fault lie? At this time the District I serve doesn't have any schools that are chartered partners. For the sake of this discussion let's say that I through all the proper channels and asked a School District to charter a unit and it came to be. I wouldn't have told any lies. The School, the School District, the School Board and anyone else that attended the School Board meeting would be aware that a BSA unit was becoming part of the school. If we want to put fault on anyones doorstep it has to be at the doorstep of the School District. Much the same as if I had gone into the local 711 Convenience store and bought a copy of Playboy. The Playboy Magazine is clearly marked that it contains photographs of naked females. The Sales clerk tells me that I have picked up a copy of Playboy and it isn't Scouting Magazine. I get home and decide that I am shocked that this magazine is full of pictures of naked ladies. Of course I would be at fault. To my very simple mind I couldn't blame the 711 Store. They had it clearly marked as being what it is. I couldn't blame Playboy, they never tried to fool me in any way. Wouldn't the same rules apply to a School District? You don't have to be very clever to find out what Scouting and the BSA is all about. The BSA doesn't try to hide the fact what it stands for in what is known as the traditional programs. Then of course there is the elected members of the school board. If they were to allow a not so nice organization or an organization which was perceived to be not so nice (This might include the BSA.) The local community of taxpayers could voice their dissatisfaction with the boards decision and when the time came vote in a new board that would act in the way that they see as being right. Eamonn.

Beav, My Dear Friend, Sad thing is once you start down this road you end up with something like the tax code. You will never correct the parents. They are not the people you work for. Your job is to train the PL's. No rule book, will ever replace the Scout Oath and Law. At the end of the day A Scout is trustworthy. Rule books take away from allowing the choice. Do you want parents who tell Scouts what the rule book says or do you want Scouts who say " It's OK I can do it, anyway I need to do this for such and such." Rather than books of rules we need to be seeking out each and every opportunity to place our Scouts in positions of trust. We need to look at the word is. None of the laws say "May be" or "Can be", they say is. I know that I sound like an old LP that got stuck. I hate rule books, call them what you like I just think that they take away from what we are trying to do. Eamonn

Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. If they are having fun and you are having fun. You must be doing something right! Just keep on, keeping on. Eamonn.

Merlyn_LeRoy posted: atheists have the same rights as theists, which includes things like not having their own schools own & operate youth groups which exclude them based on their religious views. Eamonn Posted: Why can't atheists get together and have their schools and youth groups? I sent my Son to a Catholic School and the church has it's own youth group. To Which Merlyn_LeRoy posted: I'm referring to public schools chartering Cub Scout Packs, which exclude atheists. My son is now in a public school. The School allows all sorts of different organizations to recruit their students for different activities. The local Camp Fire Girls are there they don't take boys. The Girl Scouts are there and they don't take boys. The local Soccer Club is there and they require $125.00 to sign up they don't have the staff or the facilities to accept handicapped students. I have no idea if they would or would not allow an Atheist Youth group to recruit. The reason why I don't know is that none have ever tried. I for one would be more than happy for an Atheist group to start a program along the same lines as Scouting. I'm happy for them to go out and work finding groups that would be willing to charter or sponsor them. I don't have any problem with them recruiting volunteer leaders. If any school wanted to charter or sponsor them, that would be fine with me. Merlyn, why don't you start such an organization? If you find that public schools are unwilling to allow you to recruit or that they are chartering BSA units and are unwilling to charter an Atheist youth group. I will join you in saying that discrimination is rampant in our public schools. I will join you in saying that what is happening is wrong. As things are how can we discriminate about something that isn't there? I just don't get it. Eamonn

I have just read this and: Not helpful to others. I can see how a Lad is not helpful to some people, some of the time. But being as the words say: "To help other people at all times;" I think that each and everyone of us are unable to live up to that. I was driving down the road the other day. It was a very cold day and there on the side of the road was a young man trying to hitch a ride. I had an appointment and I don't pick up hitch-hikers. I know nothing about how he came to be there or where he was going. I drove on by. This falls short of "Help other people at all times." "not willing to wear the uniform properly or as requested." Uniform is a method of Scouting not a requirement. You might as well have failed him for not wearing green underwear. Sure wearing a Scout Uniform is an outward sign of accepting the ideals of Scouting, but I would hope I have as much Scout Spirit out of uniform as I do in uniform. "not willing to set the example of good behavior when around other scouts" I have to think if he was guilty of not setting an example of good behavior, he must have been doing something wrong.This could depending on what he was doing wrong be grounds to delay signing off on the Scout Spirit requirement.I do find it a little bit strange that a Lad could make it all the way to Life Scout Rank, then do all the Eagle Scout requirements only to start setting a bad example and doing things that are wrong. We know that the Scout Spirit was in good shape just before he made Life Scout, if it wasn't why was it signed off? Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

First I do want to try and clear my name!! I am not the sort of guy who lets things slide by. I am 100% for requirements being met in full. I really want the youth who go through our programs to come out being able to make ethical choices and having made progress in meeting the aims of Scouting. I think that the methods of Scouting, when used correctly (The methods are sound, but at times need too be used at varying levels or degrees. - I'm not making this very clear. What I'm trying to say that there are different courses for different horses. A new troop, might need to ease up a little on the Patrol Method. A Troop of go getters might want to do more fun stuff and ease up on advancement. In fact this might be true of individual Scouts.) I enjoy the Scoutcraft side of Scouting, the hiking, camping, knotting and all that good stuff. Most of us would agree that if you were looking to find what Scout Spirit is? You would go back to the basics, which are the Scout Oath, Law,Motto and Scout slogan. The big stumbling block is in the Scout Law. While we might think that a Lad is not living up to the high ideals of Scouting and we might think that he is guilty of all sorts of things. The "I will do my best" is very hard to determine. A Lad with ADD or some other behaviour problem might really be doing his best, but never reach the standard that we might like or expect. I have no idea why, but some Lads just seem to have a knack of getting into trouble, they really try not too, it just seems to happen. Some do seem to outgrow this - It just seems to take an awful long time. So what is the standard for Scout Spirit? And who sets it? I think we might look at Scout Spirit in the same way as we look at learning to read. Just as we have to work with each student individually when he starts to learn to read, we need to work with each Scout individually with Scout Spirit. Each Scout will make progress at his own speed. Just like with reading as he gets better at it the standard is raised. All the time his understanding will become better. With reading no matter how great anyones vocabulary is they will still come across that word that they have never met and don't understand. When this happens they will look it up and add it to their vocabulary. If you want to reduce the "Wiggle Room" you need to work with the Scout and have him set goals which are realistic. If he meets these goals great, if he fails, we need to think about starting over. As to the uniform thing. I have never come across a Scout who owns a uniform that has flat out refused to wear it. Some are very careful as to where and when they wear it. I like to think that most leaders worth their salt could persuade (not order.) A Lad that there are times and places when he might want to wear it. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Why Four O'Clock? Teatime is at Five O'Clock!! Respect is all well and good, but nothing gets in the way of teatime !! The very idea. Eamonn (With tongue in cheek)

Many Thanks for sharing. Over the past 41 years (Boy does that make me seem old!!) I have always in some way been in Scouting. I have never had an occasion that jolted me back. I have seen Scouts ridiculed and made fun of. Years ago there was some debate in the UK about Scouting and the image that Scouts and Scouting has in the media. Boy Scouts took a lot of ribbing especially from the Goons. The Goon show which many think of as the best of British Comedy featured : Sir Harry Secombe,Peter Sellers and Spike Milligan. The show started as a radio show and did a lot to launch the careers of the cast members. Sir Harry Secombe, as well as being gifted at comedy was an outstanding Welsh tenor. Spike Milligan, was a gifted writer and artist. Peter Sellers graduated from being an Ealing studio Film star to becoming a Hollywood film star. The humor was the kind that you either loved or hated.I remember my parents really hating it and calling it "Rubbish." Many people like Prince Charles, John Lennon and the cast of Monty Python see the Goons and the Goon Show as being British Comedy at it's all time best. One Goon Character that Peter Sellers played was Bluebottle,a young boy scout who usually reads his own stage directions. He is the playmate of Eccles, and most shows contain an extended scene with just him and Eccles. Bluebottle was based on Ruxton Hayward. In the early days of the Goons, Boy Scout Hayward approached Peter Sellers with a request that Sellers appear at a scouting function. Sellers declined, but the bearded scout with the odd, high voice made such an impression that he became Sellers's most beloved character. Hayward continued to follow the Goon Show as a fan, but never realized that he was Bluebottle until he heard Sellers describe their encounter in an interview on the Michael Parkinson show in 1972 http://www.goon.org/ Peter Sellers and the Goon Show had what might be called a cult following and a lot of people when they thought about Scouts and Scouting thought of Bluebottle. The conversation about Scouts and the media asked if Scouts being portrayed by characters like Bluebottle damaged how Scouts and Scouting were viewed by the general public. I loved the Goons and the Goon Show, but was a little hurt that anyone would think I was like Bluebottle. One night on a late night talk show (In fact it was the 1972 Parkinson Show. - As far as I know Parkinson went to Australia and became the CEO of an Australian network. Maybe Ozemu could shed some light on that.)Peter Sellers, let it be known that he never had any intention of hurting the Boy Scouts. There was a guy from the Boys Brigade on the show, he said how he wished that someone like Peter Sellers had kept the Boys Brigade, up front and in view of the public.He went on to say that they just couldn't buy publicity like this. I know that people in my small town like Scouts and Scouting. Every time I go for a haircut the Barber tells me how good it is that there are people like me who are willing to work with our kids. I still only tip him a dollar!! I still think that it is good when someone is accused of being a "Boy Scout" it means that they have good values and are good. Still at the end of the day actions will always speak louder than words. The Lad returning the bag made a big impression on you and the girl who left it. Eamonn.

"atheists have the same rights as theists, which includes things like not having their own schools own & operate youth groups which exclude them based on their religious views. Why can't atheists get together and have their schools and youth groups? I sent my Son to a Catholic School and the church has it's own youth group. Eamonn.

Why is this tread making me think about Rolling Stones songs? Beast of Burden, You Don't always Get What You Want and You Gotta Move: You Gotta Move By Fred McDowell/Rev. Gary Davis You gotta move You gotta move You gotta move, child You gotta move Oh, when the Lord gets ready You gotta move You may be high You may be low You may be rich, child You may be poor But when the Lord gets ready You gotta move Kids (Not just Scouts) do over time move from dependency to Independence. At times I know in our house this can cause conflict. 16 years ago we brought home a helpless little fellow, we did everything we could to meet his needs. As time passed these needs lessened and he started to make his own choices. He started to tell us what his likes and dislikes were and we heard "I can do it Daddy." As his parents we thought and to a degree still think that we know best. Letting go of this is really hard and is not made any easier by 16 year olds acting like 16 year olds. Before you cross the street Take my hand Life is what happens to you While you're busy making other plans. Allowing a Son to cross the street without taking the hand is a big step. OJ, came back from his first Webelos Scout camp, without ever changing his underwear. When Her That Must Be Obeyed, asked him why? He said that he didn't know that there were clean underwear in his pack. The next time he was going away they packed together. Over time that has become Her asking "What do you need for the weekend?" I'm sorry Beaver Guy, but we don't need to write a big book of rules about who does what. We do need to use skills of leadership to get our message across. While a big book of rules would communicate what we want done it would take away the choice of doing it right and we are all about placing our youth members in situations where they make choices. Sure there are times when Parents are a right royal pain, and we need to give them a hand in allowing their son to say "I can do it Daddy." I am happy to allow OJ, to make his own bed and lie on it. I like to think that he has ownership of and for his own actions. I also think that Scouting has had a lot to do with him become more self-reliant. We help our Scouts become more self-reliant, by dealing with each Scout as an individual, and helping him set goals that he is going to work on achieving. Scoutmaster Conferences and BOR's can really help with this. At times we might need to have a word with the parent and let them know that their son wants to do do things for himself. Some parents have a really hard time letting go. Some parents never let go. We have requirements that ask the Scout to do things. We need to ensure as best we can that he is doing them. We need to be vigilant that when Mom sends the E-mail or Dad builds the whatever that we communicate to the Scout and his parents that this isn't the way we do things. We also need to let them know why. Eamonn.