Eamonn

Pass the salt!! (Just joking!!) Eamonn

The Scout Handbook states that the swimming requirements may be waived by the troop committee for medical or safety reasons. We as Scouts are challenged with doing our best, if this Lad has done his best and still can't swim, isn't this then a safety reason? As for what has been signed off in his book, is the onus on the Scout or the adults to ensure that requirements are met? The ideal situation would be if the Lad kept on taking lessons and did manage to meet the requirements, but not knowing the Scout and the reasons why he can't swim, maybe that is just not possible. Eamonn.

Barry without wanting to seem argumentative I don't think you can brush to one side Who plans what and who does what. Announcing that the next PLC meeting will be the Annual Planning Meeting, is fine and dandy. But we need to remember that part of the Patrol Leaders job at the PLC is representing the group. Before we start making the plan we need to know what the Scouts want to do. We are of course never going to please each and every Scout. But if they feel they have ownership of what they are doing they are going to want to participate. The more they are involved with doing things the more they are lightly to participate. I very much doubt if the Grub-master who is in charge of getting the food is going to not attend. The rut becomes a rut when we the adults stop listening to the Scouts. I have visited Troop meetings where the Scouts have been complaining that the District Camporee is not their cup of tea, but the Adults go ahead anyway and then they complain that the Scouts aren't attending. I like the idea of us making dreams come through. But the dreams must be the dreams that come from the Scouts. Sure our Scouts and their parents are busy and school and home activities do at times get in the way of what the troop is doing, but we plan our programs for the Scouts that are there we hope that they will see their dreams come through and that their enthusiasms will rub off on those who missed the activity. We work with our SPL and PL's, helping and supporting them, but at the same time making them accountable for getting the job done. Sure the easy way is to say that this isn't working and then allow the adults to take over, but that isn't Scouting. Eamonn

Hi Mike Welcome to the forum. Changes have been made to the uniform over the years. No matter what a new uniform was like it is not going to be what everyone wants. Looking at the new uniforms that some countries have come up and listening to the comments, I hear a lot of people say that these new uniforms look like a fast food uniform. The small town I live in has a pop of 4,700 and four Troops. The kids all attend the same HS and the incomes of the families in the Troops are about the same. We don't have a Troop of rich kids and a Troop of poor kids. One Troop a new one only about 6 years old has all the Scouts in uniform, one has about half and the other two are a bunch of ragamuffins. In the end it all comes down to what people think is important. Those who look at the new troop (an off spring of the pack I used to serve as CM) Look at these guys who are really doing a good job of both following and delivering the program and say it's all because they don't know any better!! Meanwhile this Troop which started with 8 Webelos Scouts crossing over, now has over 30 Boy Scouts while at least two of the other Troops are slowly but surely dieing. The SM of this new Troop, my old Assistant Cubmaster, was never a Scout, he doesn't lead by making threats such as "No Uniform -No Meeting" Sure there is an expectation that everyone will wear the uniform. The adults and the Scouts see it as a matter of Troop pride. Some of the older Scouts are into the dark clothes, black T-shirts and whatever that trend is, some are into the over-sized shorts and clothes that seem to half a dozen sizes too big, but when I see them at Scouting functions they are in uniform. It all comes down to leadership. Eamonn

Our guys will be wearing the Jamboree National Emergency Preparedness award. I'm a little unsure how as the Lodge made a special full pocket OA flap. While I suppose if this pocket is free a Scout could opt to wear his favorite temporary patch. I however would check with the Jamboree Scoutmaster. The troop is not a quality unit. It is a provisional Council Troop. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I'm going to go stray a little bit off topic, but what's new with that? I really never have taken the time to really get into the OA, the workings of it and all that good stuff. My good friend Fred Jenkins, who was a Scoutmaster of another Troop, in the District back home and a guy who as a Scout and as a young Scoutmaster I used to hate with great zeal. But when the 15th folded he came to the 17th and grew to be one of my closest and dearest friends. Was a very wise and powerful influence on me, used to say that there were reasons and there were excuses. There is no such thing as the OA in UK Scouting. When I came across the pond back in 1977 as a young fellow, I was taken by the ceremony, the patches and the young people in the Lodge. At that time it seemed to me that the officers and the movers and grovers were Lads who were over 18 and they were backed up by a group of guys who were ex-officers but still under 25. At that time it seemed that the qualifications to be a "Real Arrowman" were: You had to have had served on camp staff. As a camp staffer the more times you crashed the camp truck or got the tractor stuck the more esteem you were held in. Being big, strong and athletic was a big bonus. Being able to work hard at physical tasks and being able to play just as hard were high on the list of qualifications and if not top of the list very near it was you had to love the camp. I spent a great summer with these guys. I was only 147 pound, but I was a hard worker, loved playing hard and crashing the camp truck and getting the tractor stuck, just added to the fun. I did visit these guys when I would come over from the UK and spending time at camp, no matter what season it was, just seemed a natural thing to do. Time passed they grew up and some moved away and over time we stopped playing together. I moved here to live in the mid 80's. This group were gone, some had become legends. I was asked to serve on the properties committee. Soon I was attending meetings where the main topic of conversation was how ill-responsible the camp staff were and how the OA wasn't far behind them. Because of trying to make a living I wasn't able to make hardly any of the weekends and even though I paid my dues and wore the flap, I wasn't in any way active. When I did attend the odd weekend it seemed that the age of the youth members had gone down, the 17 and 18 year old guys were replaced by 14 and 15 year olds. There seemed to be two groups of adults, those who were members of the Kitchen Club and those who held a PhD in construction. It seemed to me that once I started serving at the Council and District level, that I was one of them. I had crossed some line and I was no longer to be trusted. I have no idea why. Many of the adults who work their tails off and do so much for the camp seemed to think that they had ownership of it. Trying to use the camp for things like Training's seemed to cause these adults a lot of distress. Over time I got so as I just didn't like them, the OA and wanted nothing to do them. Still I paid my dues and wore my patch. I didn't see or maybe I didn't want to see the work that was being done with and by the youth members. All I seen were a bunch of people that to my mind were a real right royal pain. When OJ, got the bug I was happy to let him do his own thing. He really did get the bug. We were very fortunate that the guy who agreed to serve as Lodge Adviser really seemed to understand the workings of the Lodge and the OA. He understood the value of training the officers and has done a good job working with the youth members. OJ, has really got a lot out of being in the OA. He really is into it and is talking about running for Section Secretary at the conclave later this year. As a parent I can't sing the praises of the OA and the Lodge loud enough. Eamonn.

While I see nothing wrong in what you are doing and I think that it is great that you have the Scouts involved in every step of the way. However I do have some little things that nag at me and I think that if they are issues they are mine. I am in no way trying to put what you are doing down. First I see the goal of fund raising as making money. Yes it sounds kind of obvious! We do have the BSA guidelines and the paper work that is needed and I do think that we need to follow the rules and not stray from them. I don't see fund raising as being the program, but a means to help deliver the program. I really like to get in, get out and get back to doing what we want to do. We all see what we do as being what works for us. We want to get the most bang for our buck. It seems in our area that every youth group and school club is out washing cars every Saturday. What would I sooner do with a troop on a Saturday build Bird Houses or go camping? How much money will the troop make? Who is going to buy them? If we end up just selling them to the parents of our Scouts are we just exchanging dollars? When I was involved with a unit we sold popcorn, the popcorn sale has become known and is expected, we sell popcorn, the Girl Scouts sell cookies. If my goal is to make money I know that the popcorn sale is well organized well advertised and my buyers will buy it, eat it and be ready to buy more next time we try to sell it. Our big thing was Frozen Pizza kits. They sold for about $15.00 of which $5.00 was profit. We had 3 Fundraising events a year the popcorn and 2 pizza sales. Of course there were people who hated the pizzas, but there were some who loved them and couldn't wait for the next sale and there were people who bought them just because the Scouts were selling them. To be very honest there was no Philosophy, we wanted to make money as quickly and as effortlessly as possible and get back to doing all the good stuff that the money helped us do. Eamonn.

Kahuna I would hope that deep down we all want to see a more loving, more caring society. God or destiny guides us in what we do and where we do it. Did I find Scouting or did Scouting find me? At some Eagle Rank BOR's that I sit on, we have a board member who seems to make a big thing about asking the Lad "What will you do to give back to Scouts?" I think this is wrong. Sure it would be nice if all the people who were once Scouts came back and were banging on the Council Office door yelling "Sign me up!! Please sign me up" But we don't do what we do in the expectation of any kind of repayment. Many of us who were kids in the program, find ourselves copying things that we seen our leaders do. I was blessed to have a team of great guys who loved kids, loved Scouting and for the most part knew how to play this game. There are others who weren't as lucky. Some belonged to units who had leaders who didn't deliver the program, some may have quit Scouting because of these bad leaders. At times in an effort to try and be funny I say that people were frightened by a plumber, when they were being potty trained. I may not see red when a forum member posts that he or she is straying from the program. I see the penalty as being a few raised eye-brows. Again in an effort to be funny I might say that they need twenty lashes with a wet noddle or wet Wood Badge. However there are those who do see red. They see an adult misusing or abusing the program and are reminded about what happened to them when they were Scouts or see the very reason why the quit Scouting. They see youth members quiting and understand the reasons why. They don't see any humor in it what so ever. Sure maybe they need to tone things down a little. I however admire the passion they have and the love they have not only for Scouting but for the Scouts, who they see are not getting the program they deserve. "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" I am sure that if I was good looking no one would hold it against me. We have some very clever and talented people in these forums. I sure as heck hope that we don't hold it against them, that they have studied this game and know how to play by the rules. Eamonn.

Howz-about: A set of black teeth. A egg cooked in an orange. A whittled tent stake. Examples of each point of the Scout Law taken from a newspaper that you provide. Paper hats for the entire patrol made from the rest of the news-paper. A song that the patrol can sing in 3 parts. Breaking a simple code that tells them the next thing to collect. The tracking sign for "Gone Home" A pot of tea made in a paper bag. The Scout Oath written in the same simple code. A rope ladder. A Spanish Windless. A Japanese Square lashing. A bottle tied with a jug knot. The total age of your patrol in days. (Leap years count (: A fall Hair. Eamonn.

Or stand on your head!! Eamonn

Her Who Must Be Obeyed thinks I'm going a little soft in the head!! I just have to laugh out loud every-time that GE ad with the elephant who dances to "Singing in the rain" comes on. Rory does much the same thing in muddy puddles. But he is like me and isn't that great a dancer. So whats your favorite ad on TV? Eamonn.

cubbingcarol Boy!! What some people will do to not attend the family reunion!! Just joking!! I think it's wonderful. Eamonn.

This is the first that I have heard about this. I think that no one is going to worry that much until we get this years over and out of the way. Then I suppose (I don't know!!) A lot will depend on what the DoD and the ACLU get up-to or into over the next few years. Eamonn.

The minimum age for this years National Jamboree is 12 and you need to be a First Class Scout. Unc, They have moved the 2009 Jambo to 2010 in order to mark the 100 years. Jamborees are as a rule for Scouts not for Venturers. There is a world Jamboree in England in 2007, which will mean that the one after is in 2011. Kinda close to our 2010!! Eamonn.

I kinda think that this Fall we are in for a wild and wonderful ride when it comes to recruiting Cub Scouts. The sponsorship with General Motors, will or could be a big help. The worlds biggest pine-wood derby car will be on tour. National, Councils and Districts will all join this Race For Cub Scouts. We are using the Lunch Box with the Pine Wood kit in as an incentive to join. We have patches for the recruiters as well as the Recruiter patch. Schools are signed up and I have a breakfast meeting planned with all the School Superintendents and Elementary School Principles. The Membership Committee has selected people to go in to the schools and do Boy Talks, bill boards have been bought, newspaper ads are coming, the local cable company is waiting for the new PSA's and have agreed to air them free of charge. Our District marketing team are working with packs to try and get a steady flow of news items into the local papers over the summer and our new Council Membership Chairman is a priest so hopefully he can put in a few extra words with the Great Cubmaster and bend his ear. If only recruiting the Boy Scouts that we need would be as much fun. We need 156 Cub Scouts for Quality District, the goal I have asked the Membership Committee to aim for is 225, I know that we can do it, in fact I'm sure of it. Eamonn.

Sandy, Just think how nice those extra OA flaps would look if you had them in a $900.00 purse. I have a ASM attending the Jamboree with his two sons. With extra uniforms (This was one way of making him but a pair of Scout pants!!) He must be close to $3,000. Then to add to it all his wife and Her That Must Be Obeyed have said that if we are going away so are they!! Last I heard they were looking at some place in either Florida or New Orleans. I will end up with my Boy Scout tan! A poboy or bucket full of crabs with a set of mouse ears. Eamonn.

When I look around the District, I see the Troops that are doing activities that are fun and offer the Scouts adventure and challenges. There are also the Troops that do next to nothing. Some spend a week at Summer Camp and maybe attend the odd Camporee. These Lads go to the same schools, live in the same area and have families that range from being poor to being at the other end of the scale. So while the Lads are all individuals, they are in many ways very much alike. So what is the big difference? I see that the Lads in the "Get Out and about there" Troops seem to have more Scout skills. This of course could because they get more practice. But they seem to be more comfortable doing Scout type stuff, I think that these guys were trained better on their way to becoming First Class Scouts. They have the basic skills down pat and don't hang back because they are going to be embarrassed or made to look silly. In fact they want to use the skills and maybe even show off a little. They seem to have a plan and they work it. As a Scoutmaster sitting in on a PLC meeting, I can kill an idea very quickly. I can say how expensive it is, I can make a point of telling them that it's going to be too hot, cold, wet, dry. Or I can help and support them in getting the idea off the ground. Most councils have a High Adventure Committee. Councils get first dibs on Philmont and Sea Base. These trips are not cheap. Philmont from our Council costs about $1,000 and Sea Base close to $1,500. These trips are on a first come first served basis. Most times the families are given about two years notice. That works out at about $2.00 a day for Sea Base and less than $1.50 a day for Philmont. This goes a long way in teaching what this "A Scout is thrifty" thing is all about and helps Scouts learn a lot of skills that they will need later on in life. I can sit in on a PLC meeting and challenge the Patrol leaders to go for bigger and better things, I can sell them on the idea of doing their best and not being lazy little toads or we can keep on doing very boring dull, no fun, no challenge six mile hikes. I remember one PL who was crazy about fossils, he seemed to know a lot about them. I don't know a fossil from a lump of concrete. This one Lad somehow managed to talk the PLC into spending a week at half term camping in Sussex looking for fossils. They arranged for a local fossil club to show them how to get started and had a wonderful week (5 Days) Later that year during the summer vacation, they arranged a Patrol camp in Dorset, light weight camping hiking around looking for fossils. I wasn't able to go with them, but had asked the local District Commissioner to look in on them. They had a wonderful time. I still am not that up on fossils. They did come back with all sorts and I know more than I did before they went. All of this because one little Lad expressed an interest in something. A couple of the Lads who went did get the fossil bug, a few just went to go camping and get out of the house. They all worked hard on planning what they were doing, how to get where they were going (They went by train.) I required menus, equipment lists, program details and a few phone calls. They came home minus a single burner camp stove. Stories about how nice the local District Commissioner was, he did take them out for Fish and Chips!! But more than anything they came home proud that they had done it. They had fun and the idea was theirs, they had "Ownership" of the entire activity from the idea stage through the planning stage it was all their work. Sure the QM was a little unhappy about the loss of a cheap stove and he did a little finger wagging. I think it was worth the cost. Eamonn.

Hi gavvin, I think the must have courses are courses that would be courses you might need to help you do a better job n the area in which you serve or things that really interest you. Philmont offers a great menu of conferences for people involved in different areas of Scouting. Districts and Councils should be in the business of training leaders, not just running training courses, the goal of District and Council Training Committees is to have 100% of the adults trained in the position they hold. Some people like to plan ahead and a lot of people in Cub Scouting will prepare for their move into Boy Scouting by taking the Boy Scout courses early. I have seen the spoof "Over Trained" patch. While I am not sure if anyone can be over trained in a specific position, I do think that the new Tiger Cub Den Leader really is wasting his or her time taking Venturing training, if all they do is work with Tiger Cubs. I really don't do much else with my spare time but Scouting. For about the last ten or so years I have not served in an area where I am very active with our youth members. Yes I do remember what they look like!! I have tried to keep current with what is happening in the program areas. I'm not that well versed on Venturing Awards, I have presented some Venturing Training's. If someone were to ask me the requirements for a merit badge, I would have to look it up. I like to think that I am up to date with the Boy Scout program, the leave no trace program and I have to be first aid and CPR trained as part of my job. I was caught with my pants down when the new requirements were added to the Arrow of Light and Webelos Scouts program. I do know that chapter 10 of the Cub Scout Leader book has some changes, but the book is still in the plastic wrapper, I need to buy a new binder. I am at times amazed about how much stuff is out there if you are interested in a certain activity. I had a guy who is really interested in archery tell me about all the different courses there are in that area. I don't think we ever stop learning. If I am asked to present at a training I like to sit in the back and watch all the other presentations, hear the questions and the answers.I ask the other presenters to try not to ask me, as I have a bad habit of talking too much. I really like to read stuff and read it from cover to cover. Reading the guides that show plans, procedures and materials has been a big help to me. I caught some strange looks from Dolly who looks after my paper work at work (And some Scout stuff, but please don't tell anyone.) When she seen me reading the Boy Scout Handbook. I hope to read the new Field Book soon, so far I have only looked through it and used it for reference. I also hope to read the new Webelos book. Eamonn.

I will bow to your knowledge but it would seem that if we were a religious organization that we would fall under a different heading. Just wondering Merlyn, what did you think of the discussion ? I really enjoyed the fact that both sides made some very good points and for the most part were very level headed and kept their cool. Eamonn.

I never ever cease to be amazed at how diverse and how lucky we are to have so many talented and gifted people in our organization. I serve in a small Council and I think most of the adults in the Council know who I am. I feel sure that we within our Council can get almost anything done, it is just a matter of asking the right person or people. There are times when people come to me with what be termed problems. How do you tie a square knot? The answer is easy. Right over left and under and left over right and under. Or the other way round. Left over right.... Then people will have people problems, mostly because people can't play nice together or because someone is upset. We have in a active thread a SM who isn't happy with a ruling made by the Troop Committee and is in a bit of a quandary. It is very easy for me to sit here many miles away from what is going on and add my two cents. I however at times do question what my responsibility is? In the case I just mentioned I might really feel that the SM has been wronged and he should go to bat for what he thinks is right. But and there always seems to be a but. If every SM who was unhappy with something that came down from the Troop Committee, stood up and stamped his foot, what is the point of having a Troop Committee? Someone asked in another active thread about Adult knots, patches and medals. We not very long ago had a very similar thread about Adult Eagle Scouts wearing their Eagle Scout Medal. The answer is in the Insignia Guide. A very long time ago I thought I was ready to murder the very next person who told me to check my resources. Is it better for the person who asked to be pointed to where the correct and official information is? Or should I have stated that the wearing of Eagle Scout medals is a no, no and reopened the debate a debate where many were strongly suggesting that the BSA is wrong and they are right. I believe that we serve at the pleasure of the BSA. I know some people are happy bending or breaking rules, while I don't see the Eagle Scout SM who opts to wear his Eagle Scout medal as being a bad person or in need of criticism from me, at the end of the day he is not right, which does make him in the wrong. I have had parents who are very unhappy that their son has gone ahead and completed Eagle Scout Leadership projects without completing the needed paperwork. They are unhappy with the Advancement Chair and want me to over rule him because he has said that this just isn't acceptable and the Lad need to start over. I show them the work book, I feel very sad for the Lad. They can see in black and white where they went wrong. Still they remain unhappy, which at times leads to them lashing out. At times we see very similar things here in the forum. People don't get the answer they like or want so they lash out. The organization that I belong too is a uniformed organization, the uniform isn't ideal for every activity, every climate and some people just plain don't like it. I don't have all the answers, I do believe that as long as we have the uniform we have that's what we go with. I happen to believe and agree with the BSA about keeping Duty To God front and center in all that we do. I can't see how an atheist who might be the most gifted person on the planet at outdoor activities and camping can lead our Scouts along their path of duty to God. As far as the homosexual thing goes, I'm not gay and in my own little way I feel very sorry for those that are, I really like women and enjoy being heterosexual. My religion and my church takes a very dim view of homosexuals and homosexual activities. This organization that I belong too has said that avowed homosexuals are not the role models that we want for our youth. I am happy to go along with that. If at some time the BSA has a change of heart and leaves this choice in the hands of the chartering organization, I would be OK with that, but for now the rule is the rule. Harsh as it might be or might sound if people are not willing to play by the rules, they have only one option leave. I would hope that the forum would be a very friendly place. I enjoy reading the reviews of different equipment, heck even some of the bad jokes were funny. Most of us here do have a great love of Scouting and what we are all working for,many of us are trying to do our best to live by the Oath and Law, some days we do better at it than other days. There are days when we get out of the wrong side of the bed and there are times when another member really gets on that last nerve. Still it does seem that those who only come to make trouble or be a pain don't stay very long, sad to say while they are doing their thing, they may scare or frighten a lot of good people away. The backspace key is a powerful tool as it the private message, if I find someone is trying to push my buttons? I drop them a line asking them to quit, then I ignore them!! Eamonn.

Many Thanks for the link. I sat through all of the discussion.My head is spinning, the little gray cells are in over-drive. I have to wonder what would happen if the Catholic or Jewish or you name a religion; Committee on Scouting were to lease the parks? It seems that it is OK for religious organizations to hold these leases. Eamonn.

I have to admit that being prepared for any old thing has always seemed like a tall order to me. I did have to smile at the Emergency Plan our Jamboree Troop Scribe wrote for the Emergency Preparedness Award, he included snow and blizzards. The document was well thought out and well done, I know the snow was there just to see if I took the time to read it. Eamonn.

Hey maybe I can buy OJ a slightly used G.M car? Of course now that they are a National Cub Scouting sponsor it would only come in yellow and blue. Wouldn't it be cool to get one with Akela, Baloo and the Tiger Cub (Does he have a name?) painted on? A real Cub Bug!! Eamonn.

At first glance I would think this is one very easy method to follow. But looking at some of the troops in our district, it just isn't happening. So What are you doing to put this method to work in your troop? Eamonn

Jerry I am really pleased and happy that you are having a great time on the course. The course is being looked at and some changes are being made. I know several people who were part of the team that were responsible for putting together the 21st Century course. The people I know are a very diverse bunch, I'm not sure how many if any of them will be involved in these changes. Each and every course director has had to file a close out report, with suggestions and comments about the course. I like to think that I stuck to the syllabus and did my best to be faithful to it. My thinking being if we all did our own thing, how would we ever know what worked and what didn't? The transition from the old courses to the new course was difficult. Some Councils had a hard core Wood Badge team, that had done little else for eons but staff courses. As the old Cub Scout Leader Trainer course was only offered by Regions, there were not that many Cub Scout staffers around. It seemed that in the eyes of the masses the old Cub Scout course never existed. Over time many of these hard core staffers had drifted so far from the original syllabus, added so much unnecessary junk that no two courses were alike. I get a little upset when I hear that the junk is starting to creep back in. Worse still is when people quote these "Wood Badge Rules" which are not there as being the way to run a unit. I really don't think that Wood Badge is a place to collect misinformation, we need to do everything we can to not allow this to happen. In these forums I have seen reports of what some participants are doing and I know that this is not part of the course and has no business being added. Of course the participants don't know this and when it comes time for them to be staff members or course directors, they are going to include this junk and maybe add a little more? We all see units that at times make us wonder if they belong to the same organization that we belong too? Most of us have met the members of the "We don't do it that way club". Very few of us do everything by the letter and I admit that I added extra time to the development weekends which wasn't in keeping with the staff guide. I am glad that I did as it seemed that even after we had met and agreed on dates, things seemed to spring up and people were unable to keep the dates. I think that each and every course director brings a slightly different perspective to each course, each Troop Guide works with each Patrol in different ways and the course is in many ways shaped by the participants on the course. The Staff is there to meet their needs and these will be different on every course. I had the great misfortune to be a staff member on a course, where we spent almost two hours debating if the staff wore long socks or short socks!! What a waste of time. My thinking is that as long as everyone was in official BSA uniform that was fine and we could concern ourselves with presenting the course material. Eamonn.