Eamonn

Hi and welcome. Eamonn.

Hi Rob and Welcome, A move from Montana to Arizona, sounds like one heck of a move, but so far I have yet to visit Montana. It is on my list but I think it will have to wait till I retire. I love driving through Arizona, the light is just wonderful and makes me wish I was a more capable photographer, which I'm not. The forum is a great place to exchange ideas. A little heated at times, but for the most part a good alternative to watching the junk that is on the telly. Eamonn.

Welcome Bob, You might want to turn your Caps off. Eamonn.

Welcome and we look forward to your visits. Eamonn.

Boy, your lucky!! I'm trying to save my aging back!! I'm not sure what can be done for the fabric. But you might want to give the zippers a good cleaning with a tooth brush that has been sprayed with WD40. Some nylon doesn't take it very well and then rubbing the zipper with a candle. Give it a good rub and then work the zipper a few times repeating till the zipper opens and closes with ease. Hope this helps. Eamonn.

Seems to me what I'm about to say seems like a double standard. I do realize that some districts and councils would face a real hard time if the people who wear multiple hats were to quit. I have during my term as District Chair and before as District Commissioner really tried to knock some of these hats off. For the record I do wear two hats, one as District Chair and the other serving as the World Jamboree Chairman on the NE Region Area 4 Committee, by the time that job moves into high gear my term as District Chair will be over. I don't like having people serve in multiple positions for several reasons. First it has been my experience that they don't know which master they serve. When as often happens there are two activities going on at once where doe their loyalty lie? I want the people who serve on the District Committee to put the District Committee first. Then it seems that these people seem to be involved in so much that there is so many things that they can become upset about. At times I do think they use being upset to mask the fact that they are just plain tired and burnt out. Having to say goodbye to a person who has filled multiple positions, knowing that we now need to recruit four and sometimes five people to fill the vacant spots is hard on everyone. At times these multiple hat wearers get the idea that we can't do without them. They sound off making it seem that they are some kind of Scouting Martyr. This really gets under my skin, especially when they don't get their own way and start threatening to quit. My normal answer to that is that you decide what you want to do and let me know. Another district in the council did try having commissioners that were unit members be the Unit Commissioner and it just didn't work. There were times when they were the problem in the unit and without any fresh eyes to look at the problem objectively things just got worse. There was a time when I was so busy Scouting that I placed my family second. I thank God that I caught myself in time. I now make sure that I put Her Who Must Be Obeyed and my family first. I have several friends who have gone through divorces because of the time they spent Scouting. Many lost a lot of things that they held near and dear to them. Some found that once they handed over the money for child support and whatever else they had to pay out that they just couldn't be as active as they once were. I am a very selfish person!! I know that before I can do anything for others I have to make sure that I'm in good shape. There are times when people will come to me with a problem and are surprised when I tell them that I can't deal with them or their problem because I think that I'm in a bad mood or just don't feel good. I think the world of my home and family and put Her Who Must Be Obeyed above all else. I know that if there was all sorts of problems and turmoil at home or at work, I wouldn't feel good and be any use to anyone. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Sure the guys from a few councils have let the side down. But lets not get carried away with all of this, the reports of inflated membership are in a very small number of districts. I by no means think of myself as being any kind of a Super Scouter, but I know the Units in the District I serve. I know that we don't have a single unit that is willing to hand over more cash in registration or membership fees than they have too. I see the annual rechartering process as an opportunity to verify the service that we offer to our community. Every year when the rechartering is complete I receive copies for each and every unit in the District. I can go back seven years, they are all in a filing cabinet in my garage. I receive updates on membership every month, one copy via e-mail and one copy by snail mail. There have been times when one of our pro's have tried creative or out of the box ideas, which because I'm maybe not that creative or an out of the box type of guy that I have not gone along with. In fact our last Field Director and myself crossed swords a few times because of this. While I didn't like or go along with these creative ideas, I don't think anything was illegal. It saddens me when I read "This is part of why I don't get real excited about the 'opportunity' to participate in FOS, popcorn sales, and other district/council activities. Sure if you personally want to use not participating in popcorn sales and you don't want to support the Council with your FOS donation as your way of sending a message to the people in Atlanta or Florida that is up to you. But so very often people make their choice and then don't allow the members of the unit the opportunity to participate.The end result is that services get cut, camps don't have the funds needed to operate and get sold , which makes everyone upset, so more people stop participating and soon there just isn't a Council any longer. So while a handful of people have broken the rules and have stained the good name of the organization that I love and I believe does so much good in the communities particularly the community in which I live. I can rise above the actions of this small number of misguided people. I can see the good that Scouting is doing in the Cub Scout packs, the Boy Scout Troops and Venturing Crews, closer to home I'm so very happy how great an influence Scouting is having on my son. The day when I don't see it will be the day that I quit. Eamonn.

I am not big on luck, good or bad I kind of think most of the time that we are in charge of what we do and what we don't do. Of course the guy who just won millions upon millions on the super lottery proves me wrong. I did however know that I wasn't going to win, as I didn't buy a ticket. OJ,is away this weekend at Section NE-4B Conclave. I dropped him off at the home of a young Scout from our District and the Lad who was the SPL of our 2001 Jamboree Troop was driving. I really like the group of Lads who are active in our Lodge. They really are a super bunch of Lads. Friends of mine who are involved in law enforcement back home in London, who have stayed with me have read the crime report that is in our local newspaper. It lists how many times the local police have been called out and the reasons why. They laugh when they see this, saying that compared to what they face, we don't have any crime. Still we do have groups of kids that make good choices and others that make bad choices. It seems that OJ is now far more into the OA and our lodge than he is into spending time with the Lads from his Troop. I have never at anytime put pressure on him to get involved in the OA this was and is all his own doing. In fact I was very surprised when he became as active as he is. He spent a good deal of last night writing a speech that he will deliver that he hopes will help him become the Section Secretary. The young man who is the 3rd ASM to our Jamboree Troop this year and serves as our Lodge Chief is running for Section Chief. He is a super nice Lad and I was honored to be the guest speaker at his Eagle Scout COH, even though he isn't from the District that I serve. We all want the best for our kids, but once we send them off into the big world and they are at high school we really don't know who their friends will be and what group they will decide to "Hang with". I am so very pleased that OJ has become involved with the OA and that the group he is hanging with are all such nice Lads. Making ethical choices is so much easier when the group that you are with the kind that make ethical choices. It does make being a parent so much easier and a lot less worrisome. Of course none of them are angels and I'm sure they will find some mischief to get into, but I'd sooner the mischief than the bad stuff that some Lads find themselves in. Eamonn.

Hi,JD A little time back I posted how we need to look upon what we do as stewardship, in that thread I was mainly going on about Packs. This year we had one troop that didn't recharter. It died a slow painful death. The Scoutmaster at one time was about the best at providing a great program for the Scouts. They without a doubt were the most active, best uniformed and had a Troop pride that was second to none. The church that chartered them was happy the Troop mowed the grass around the church and took care of the cemetery. The SM was also the Cubmaster and his ASM's and Troop Committee were hand picked by him. About ten years back he gave notice that in two years he was done. No one thought he would go, he had been so active and done so much. But he went. The District really went above and beyond to try and save first the Pack and then the Troop.(This was the Troop in which our DE's son had become an Eagle Scout) The church had a change of preacher twice, each new one seemed less interested in Scouting than the one before. The Committee, there was only one for the pack and the Troop comprised of parents who no longer had sons in the Troop, most had aged out and this band were the group that the SM liked. When I met with them, which I did a lot everyone sat around telling me how great things once were and it seemed they were hoping that one day the SM would return. Of course he never did. Last year a chap who had been an ASM did return and started a Venture Crew. But at this time there is little or no hope about restarting the Pack Or the Troop. I thought it was strange before they closed their doors for good they invited a number of Eagle Scouts back, the old SM didn't attend. The newspaper reported that the Troop closed due to not having a feeder pack and that kids are not interested in Cub Scouting any more!! The pack half a mile down the road has over 90 Cub Scouts!! I really liked and still like the old SM. I can't help thinking what his legacy will be? Sure to a lot of people he will be the greatest Scoutmaster ever, but to a lot of people he will go down as the guy who left 111 in the lurch. Eamonn.

I didn't know about the anniversary. OJ and members of Wagion Lodge 6, were trying to raise some money for them, it seems they were hit by a very nasty flood and their camp suffered a lot of damage. At least that is what I have been told, I never checked it out. Eamonn.

I really would like to give the rules, regulations, by-laws, uniforms and socks a little rest. While all the above are important, in the thread that I spun off from, the conversation got around to good leaders. While it can be said and I would say it that all the stuff in BSA publications does and should come into play. I feel that just having all this knowledge doesn't necessarily make someone a good leader. I have known some very shall we say "Book-smart" Scouter's who were dreadful leaders. I have known people who were skilled at outdoorsmanship (I don't think that is a word!!) and Scoutcraft who still weren't good Boy Scout Leaders. In fact I'm unsure if they would be good leaders at anything. I really think a good leader has to care about the people he is leading. Even if at times this leadership means that he does have to say no. I honestly believe that our Scouts have a sixth sense and can sniff out a person who really cares. I have met the guys who are full of hot air and full of themselves, I have met the leaders who promise the world and then don't deliver and while these guys might ride high in the popularity ranking for a while, in time our Scouts see them for what they are. I feel much better about allowing my kid to go away with a caring leader any day of the week over the flavor of the month. Eamonn.

I have hunted around the Jambo web site and can find lots of references to proper uniforming, but I'm unable to get closer than that. That isn't to say it's not there, just that I can't find it. Any help would be much appreciated. Eamonn.

I don't think that Troops attending the National Jamboree should be wearing a Regional Patch. They are attending as representatives of the Council from where they come from. Many Jamboree staff members are part of a team that has been put together by a Region and these people are representing their Region. While the wording is a little unclear about National Jamboree leaders it makes no mention of youth wearing the patch. (Page 48 of the Insignia Guide) Eamonn.

meamemg I don't have any problem with more than one as long as if the Lad is using the POR for advancement he can say that he has served actively. Eamonn.

How do you get the leaders to get out of this habit and follow the guidelines as outlined by the BSA? A good question. I wish I had a good answer. I think at the end of the day we can point out what the guidelines are, show where the resources are. Try and make quality training as available and user friendly as possible. Argue and debate till we are blue in the face. Pray for divine guidance. Whack them who refuse to listen with a rolled up copy of the G2SS. And go home knowing that we have at least done our best. Eamonn.

OGE, While I agree with the closing of the thread because of the "Bashing". I have to admit to thinking how good it was to see a thread that wasn't in the area of politics, didn't have anything to do with anything that starts with the letter G and wasn't about uniform get so much attention. I do hope that even if the thread didn't change anyone's mind, it did help us take a long hard look at what our responsibilities as leaders really are? Eamonn.

Are guidelines the same as rules? A tough question to answer. As many are quick to say the Insignia Guide is a guide. If however we go to the rules and regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, look at (Please forgive me my copy is 1999 printing)Article X, Section 4, clause 4 and read the Protection of Uniforms. It seems to me to be a rule. Ed, I might be wrong? But I think you are going to come right back at me with a uniform isn't required for membership. And you will be right on the money. The Article deals with the protection of uniform and people not changing it. Very often the Rules will refer us back to the guidelines which I see as then becoming rules. I however am not versed in the law and hope that maybe our good friend from New Jersey will jump in and help us out. Eamonn.

While I am not I hope a nit picker!! I do when I sit on an Eagle Scout Rank BOR read all the paper work. When it comes to: While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility... I ask the Lad what he did in order to serve actively? Of course in a Troop where there is only one ASPL, the normal answer is that he stood in for the SPL when he wasn't there. We do however in the District have a couple of Troops that have as many as five ASPL's. This doesn't seem to because of the size of the Troop, most times it seems to have to do with the age of the Scout. It seems that once he gets to an age where he isn't going to make that many Troop meetings, he gets promoted to join the herd of ASPL's. Of course when asked if he has served actively? The answer is no. Sad to say we have a very similar problem with Scouts who become OA troop representative. They are or might be willing to serve actively but are never given anything to do. Again when asked if they feel if they have served actively the answer is again no. There are of course Scouts who have served actively who can say what they have done and say why they think they have served actively. Eamonn.

I have copies of the Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America, Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Standard Local Council Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws. All are very small booklets. As has been mentioned there is the G2SS. Other places where I would look would depend on which program I was working in. For Cub Scouts there is the Cub Scout Leader Book along with the Wolf, Tiger, Bear and Webelos Scout book. For Boy Scouts the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Boy Scout Handbook. The National Web-site of the Boy Scouts Of America. I also think that we learn a lot of the methods and rules from the training's that we attend and from people who are in the know. These would include Scout Executives, knowledgeable Commissioners and other District or Council personnel. While many think that people like our very own Bob White are a little terse I really like the way he backs up what he says with a reference as to where he found the fact that he is stating. A lot of what we do isn't governed by rules or regulations, but has over the years become what is expected things like weekly Troop meetings or monthly committee meetings. Some chartering organizations have made changes to the program so that it is better fit for them. I'm thinking of the LDS Church, I have never spent anytime looking at what the changes are because we don't have a LDS unit or church in our District. At Wood Badge some participants were a little upset about the lack of knowledge the Staff had about the Varsity Program, but again we don't have a Varsity Team in our Council and neither did the other Councils that the Staff came from. At times we tend or I tend to work with the rules. regulations, bylaws and guidelines that I need to know and when something pops up that I don't know I either ask or try and look up the point that I don't know. At times in units, Districts and Councils some things become "Unwritten" rules or just a rule based on a myth. We have seen things like ear rings and tattoos discussed at great length in these forums. I don't know how it came about but when I was serving as a Cubmaster our Den Leaders started wearing a yellow ribbon with all the parent pins that they had been presented with (Wolf, Bear..) I think it started because our Den Leader Coach was doing it and she got it from the Council Cub Scout Training Chair was doing it. I did point out that this wasn't part of the adult Cub Scout uniform and that it shouldn't be done, strange thing was that all the Den Leaders stopped, but the Den Leader Coach who was very close friends with the Council Cub Scout Training Chair, didn't. Later when I became Council Training Chair I asked the Cub Scout Training Chair to stop wearing hers and she did. However by this time the idea seemed to have caught on and more and more Den Leaders were wearing little yellow ribbons on their uniforms. Strange how a bad example catches on so rapidly. Eamonn.

If we prescribe to the idea that some wrongs are more wrong than others, which of these is the bigger wrong: 1/ Cruising down the PA Turnpike with the cruise control at at 65 MPH, when the speed limit drops back down to 55 MPH. Driver for some reason doesn't notice. 2/ Driver knows that the top speed on the Turnpike is 65 MPH, but sets cruise control at 70 MPH anyway. 3/ Driver has a car full of Boy Scouts and they see him set the cruise at 70 MPH and when they ask him why he does that he says, "I'm a good driver and always set the cruise above the posted speed limit" Eamonn.

If I were you I would give the District Activity Chair. a call. Ask him or her if the information is correct? Explain that 3:00 PM just isn't going to work. I have to admit that I think the 3:00 is the earliest time that they want people to check in. I would have a big problem taking OJ out of school. I know that a lot of volunteers wouldn't be able to get off work that early on a work day, in fact with a four hour drive some would wait till the next day to avoid being too tired to drive after a long day at work. Eamonn.

This falls under the District Advancement Committee and the Dean of Merit Badges. We are very fortunate that we have at long last got a Dean who really takes this job to heart. All MBC's do need to let him know if they want to remain on the list when the District recharters. He requests this information by sending out post cards along with an E-mail to those who have computers, when he sends out the card and the E-mail he notes what MB's have been changed. So far it seems to be working, this is only year two. While we have not yet heard about a MBC who is using the old requirements, I'm sure if he found out that one was he would give him or her a call. Our Council news paper also lists which MB's have been changed. Of course the biggest offender of not keeping up to date is the Council at Summer Camp!! We do send in a team to try and ensure that the camp staff are able to be the MBC for whatever MB they are Counselor for. Last year I was on the team and the books that the Council had provided were really old, had pages missing and were in a sad shape and of course the trading post was waiting for them to come in. Eamonn.

Hi NeilLup I have been trying to think what I would say to ManyIrons if I were the Troop Guide. While Scouting is my hobby and it doesn't leave a lot of time for much else. Some of the things I do in my spare time do reflect the fact that I'm not an American. I have several Monopoly Boards from different countries,I have a large collection of Irish folk music,the Tupperware box filled with patches has patches from all over the world, but a lot from the UK, my photograph albums have photos from many countries and show Scouts from several different countries. My other Tupperware box has match boxes and book matches from all over the world. My cigarette cards have sets of Kings, Queens,British Butterflies and a set of Boy Scout and Girl Scout Patrols. We have no way of knowing what a Scout might bring in to a hobby night and no way of knowing where the discussion about his hobby might end. Sure if every Scout in the Troop brings in a set of Pokmon cards, there wouldn't be a lot of diversity, but how different people or different groups spent their spare time does have the potential of seeing them in a different light. Eamonn.

Hi Oak Tree, Please don't think I was trying to point a finger or pick on anyone. That never has been my intent and I hope that it doesn't seem as if I am. My hope is that even though I don't think a forum even one as good as this can be will change the hearts and minds of anyone, we can as Scouts and adult leaders look at a topic and discuss it. Anyone and everyone is free to think that my argument or even me is dumb. I hope that being Scouts they don't post it!! If nothing else we can all give our little gray cells something to work on. I agree that there is a need for information, but I don't see this as a rule. Sure the Troop meets on Monday at 6:30. Is information. But when someone adds that Scouts need a 75% attendance record to advance this then becomes a rule. The rule doesn't take into account why a Scout might not make 75% of the meetings, so then we add that a Scout needs to makes 75% of the meetings to advance unless he has a good reason not to and then we find a Scout who made 74.9% of the meetings and so it goes on. We end up spending time and effort doing the math when we should be spending time and effort trying to make our meetings so darn good that a Scout is upset when he doesn't make 100% of the meetings. I have of course been accused of living in Utopia and not being realistic, but I can't see doing it any other way, unless I'm willing to admit that I'm second rate and then my ego comes into play!! Eamonn.

Kahuna Break out the cat and nine tails!! I'm sorry about sticking you in with the bath tub brigade. Many years back when I was active in UK Scouting we organized an Air Camp at RAF Mildenhall,of course there were a lot of Americans there. At one time we had a lot of Scouts who were very interested in flying and planes so we used to visit the Biggin Hill Air Show. Sad to say we were there in 1980 when there was a crash. We had one Lad who was crazy about planes, he is now one of the top Air Traffic controllers in the UK. I think he teaches other ATC's I know that he is in Manchester and every-time he writes to me he tells me that it's raining. Eamonn.