Eamonn

That's two things in two days I found out!! I grumble on about people not reading books!! Here I sit with an Insignia Guide on the shelve. Next thing will be that I'll start agreeing that us "Gray-beards" Really are past it. Eamonn.

Any information I might have on truth would be like beauty in the eye of the beholder and might not be fact or even true. I was out with Rory, who is turning out to be a super nice friendly dog when I thought as good and as powerful as truth might be, it can be replaced by unconditional love. Eamonn.

In another thread some wise person used the analogy about a dogs water bowl. Training is available but ..... Eamonn (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Looking back at the UK and the Thatcher Years. Maggie at times was unpopular, out of touch and seemed to be uncaring. Still she was elected to serve three terms, not because she was loved or even liked, but because at that time the Labour Party, Michael Foot and the lunatic left lacked real leadership and some Labour party members seemed to open mouth and insert foot. Much like the Democrats are doing now.Howard Dean, with the President slipping in the polls is the best thing that the Republicans have going for them at the moment. Eamonn.

One way to lose a Leader or burn out a Leader, is by having him do too many things that he doesn't want to do or feels that he has to do. I love to camp, love spending time with Scouts and given the chance would be doing something every weekend. In fact for a while I just didn't know how to say No. I was busy doing something every weekend and attending some sort of meeting or whatever four or five nights a week. I was having a blast and enjoying myself. But my home life was suffering. I had to cut back and had to learn how to say no. At times it hurt, there were things that I liked doing with people I liked being with and they were doing things that I missed out on. When it comes to youth members, we need to remember that they have a life outside of Scouting. Some Scouter's have a real hard time with this. But yes, Scouts do have families, do have other commitments outside of the troop. Also I have noticed with my son he will pick and choose what activities he wants to participate in. When he was younger he went because the troop was going, now if the program isn't something that he wants he doesn't go. The troop does offer a year round program, with a week at summer camp and a big trip each summer to someplace like Washington DC or Gettysburg, this year they were going some place that he had been to before, the price tag was $150 and he didn't want to part with $75 of his hard earned cash (I pay half.) We need to offer our Scouts a year round program and aim for a outing each month, if there is the leadership. This needs to be looked at before the annual planning meeting. We have a Troop in the District that hasn't done anything in a coons age, because none of the Scouts want to do what is planned, but the PLC is not meeting and the plans are coming from the adults. The Scouts don't have any ownership in their program. Very often a leader will lean on a Lad to get him to attend or give him a hard time for not attending. I think this is wrong. We need to use all the skills of leadership to make the event as inviting as possible and invite our Scouts to participate. If the event turns out to be a dud we need to look at the reason why. We had a District Camporee a few years back with only about half the normal amount of Scouts, it was the same weekend as the High School band competition a lot of the Scouts were involved in that and when the Scouts found that their pals weren't going they stayed away as well. Had we done a better job of planing and done a better job of communicating and listened to the Scouts we would have known and changed the date. Eamonn.

Rory and I were just out for his late night constitutional. We have a lot of trees in the back yard. The Lightning Bugs were out in force. We don't have them in the UK, so I never cease to be amazed by them. Tonight they were filling some of the trees and making them look like Christmas Trees full of twinkling lights. Yet there were other trees that seemed to have one flashing away in the dark almost like a lighthouse light. I remember how the Troop that I took over from London to camp on this side of the pond, thought that these bugs were really neat and how when OJ was younger armed with a mayo jar we would have lightning bug hunts!! I look forward to seeing them every year. Eamonn.

Thank You Eamonn.

I stole a very good line from my dear friend Frend Jenkins, he would very often say : " I thought I was wrong once but I made a mistake" Isn't that truth in a nutshell? If not it works for me!! Of course there are those who will point out that John 14:6 states: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

eagle90 I was pulling your leg. After just having my second back surgery in 4 months people were asking how I was doing any every day I would take a year of starting with today I'm moving like an old man of 90!! Region 7 Voyageur I think if you take another look at the link you will see that A National Tour Permit is required for over 500 miles, not the Local Tour Permit we all know and love. Eamonn

I don't want to get into looking at each and every rule and discussing what I believe to be the rights or wrongs of it. While I do not like or think that many Scout by-laws are worth the time that people put into writing them. I do believe that a Troop Committee does have the right to write them as long as they do not go against BSA rules or by-laws. Eamonn.

Some time back in the forum a Scouter was very concerned about the health of the Scouts while they were attending summer camp. Some suggestions were that the SPL check to see if they had brushed their teeth and another was that the SPL keep a spreadsheet of when they had a bowel movement!! When I finished laughing and seen that it wasn't a joke I posted a comment that would not pass the Scout is Kind test. I can't help thinking some of the items on the not allowed list are things that a Lad will be able to work out for himself. BP when he was putting the Scout laws together didn't want a list of what Scouts shouldn't do, but wanted a list of what Scouts could or should be. Next time you are making a "Do Not " List, this might be worth thinking about. Eamonn.

Here I go sticking my neck out again!! I agree that we all need to keep current and up to date with changes in the program. I also think that just when we think we know what we are talking about someone will show us that we might be wrong. As is the case in the Scouter's wearing medals thread. I was wrong. No If's or But's, I was wrong. I see training a little bit like the merit badge program. There are parts of training that might in some people be the spark that lights the fire. A simple Flag ceremony might be the thing that makes a participant want to go on and really look into Flags, Flag etiquette, Historical Flags, Flag History and the list could go on. At training we explain the different methods used in each program, we outline what the words mean, some of us may even give examples, but at the end of the day the real understanding of this has to come from the leader, this in some ways is the beauty of a forum like this. While we may never change what someone is doing in their home unit, we are giving them food for thought. We are also hopefully pointing them to places which are the resources that help fill in the blanks. Eamonn.

The advanced leader training offered by the BSA is Wood Badge. At Wood Badge very near the very end the last words the participants hear is" Wood Badge is not an end, Training never ends." OGE, has posted that in the Council in which he serves Training is now becoming a requirement for rechartering. Trying to put my feelings on this to one side!! I do have to ask why? I can't help feeling if the people who needed trained were banging on the door of the Council Service Center demanding training that there would be no need for such a rule. While there are those who will want to attend training and who will return as often as they feel the need, the big problem trainers and training teams face is getting the people who don't feel the need or feel that it is all a big waste of time. I have been part of Wood Badge for a great number of years. Both Cub Scout and Boy Scout. The pre 21st Century Wood Badge course was a very good course, it did a lot to give the Boy Scout leaders the tools they needed to deliver a worth while and quality program to the Scouts they serve. I don't see a need for these people to return to the happy land if they are doing a good job and they don't want to. The old Cub Scout course was directed at Cub Scouters who were involved in training again if the people who attended this course are still involved in Training I don't see the need to return. To my way of thinking it is more important that people look at their shall we say soft spots and do what they can to work on or in that area. If Mr. Scoutmaster is having a problem with Scoutcraft and Scout skills, he should address that. In my case I wanted to find out more about Leadership, I went and read a lot of the books that are out there on Leadership, not just BSA books, but books that dealt with leadership. At this time I know next to nothing about GPS and I intend to find out more. If a course was full and there was only room for one more participant, I would sooner see the new leader fill that spot than the guy who had been through the training before. The quality of the Trainers, be they the new rising stars or the old guys is the job of the Training Chairman. I am never going to ask the Leader who doesn't wear a full Scout Uniform to do a presentation on uniforming. I feel sure that I wouldn't use the guy who has no time for the District or the Council, to my thinking this person has proved that he isn't a team player, so why would I think that he is going to change and play on the training team? Some time back there was in these forums a conversation between Bob White and myself, I was moaning that I was having a hard time filling spots on the Cub Scout Training Committee, Bob said that instead of looking for Cub Scout Trainers, I should be looking for the best possible presenters. He was right. Of course the best possible presenters present the training syllabus. The Training Chair ensures that all the material is the up to date and most current. Quality presenters come in all shapes, sizes and yes even ages. Eamonn.

htc1992eaglescout47553 I stand corrected, you are right!! Well almost. Page 22 OF The Insignia Guide does state that: Eagle Award Adults wear only on formal Eagle occasions. I don't see a B&G Banquet as a formal occasion. While I agree that a Eagle Scout is an Eagle Scout for life (I'm very proud to be a Queen Scout) I also think that a Life Scout is a Life Scout for life. While the 4 or 5% of Scouts who do make Eagle Rank, do belong to a small and prestigious group who are deserving of acclamation and admiration. I think everyone who has gone through a Scouting program and earned a rank is also worthy of our admiration. Some of the Scouter's I see doing the best work in our Council are Life Scouts, in fact many were never Scouts. Still they are the backbone of our Council. I do hope that if anything those of us who have obtained the top award in our Scouting organization have learned is that we are of service to others. Many thanks to FScouter for his help in finding page 22!! Eamonn.

Hey Ed, what about the other adult beverages? And the pea-meal bacon? Still now they no longer sing God Save The Queen, they might as well sing about the Star Spangled Banner!! The Brits know that there is a God, they ask him to look after their Queen. Look what a great job he did with the Queen Mom!! Eamonn.

While I agree many Scouters do only wear their medals at special events. I really would like to see what reference you are using that states a Scouter can wear a Boy Scout Eagle medal award which is a badge of rank /advancement. Eamonn.

Hi, When I read page 5 of the Insignia Guide I read it to say that: In Scouting the advancement program is intended for youth members only. Scouters should neither seek awards designed for youth members nor wear them on the scouter uniform except for square knots representing the Arrow of Light Award. Eagle Scout Award, Venturing Silver Award, Quartermaster Award, or religious emblems earned as a youth. The only five medals may be worn at a time that is in page 46 refers to adult medals. The Eagle Scout Award is a youth Award and the Square knot replaces the medal on the adult Scouter uniform. Eamonn.

Details about the 2007, 21st World Jamboree, which will be hosted in the UK are now on line. Some things that I found that interested me were: The cost: $3,975 per person. It looks as if participants will also have to pay to get to the Gateway City which will be designated by your region. Cost does not include travel to or from the prejamboree training site. Age: Participants. Scouts and Venturers between the ages of 14 and 17 years old on July 27, 2007that is specifically those born between July 28, 1989, and July 27, 1993may take part in the jamboree. Yes Venturers can attend. I see no mention of them being male or female, so I'm thinking that both can attend. Age requirements are set by the World Scout Committee and are not negotiable. BSA assistant Scoutmasters and Venturers who are 18 years of age may serve (if selected) as the jamboree third assistant Scoutmaster or Advisor. There will be job opportunities for another 800 Americans to serve on the International Service Team. Specific information is listed on the application. There will be job opportunities for another 800 Americans to serve on the International Service Team. Specific information is listed on the application. http://www.scouting.org/jamboree/world/index.html Some things that I noticed were: The application needs to have $500 first fee payment enclosed and then the second payment of $575 is due by September 30, 2005. I thought that was a lot of money to find with very little notice. Looking at the adult application form I had to smile when I seen :" Personal Appearance, including proper height-weight ratio" I was hoping that both OJ and myself would attend he was thinking of going as a service team member, but he also talked about going to Ireland with Her Who Must Be Obeyed. $10,000 for the two of us would really put a strain on the family budget. It is a lot of money. Eamonn.

All adults must have a photo ID as must children who are not accompanied with their parents. A School student OK will be work. You can not stay over night. I did have a parent ask if they could stay in their RV over night. While there are bathrooms, portajohns/ portapotties are easier to find. You might want to have a bottle of that antibacterial soap in your pack. If the President does attend one of the shows, security will be very tight and I expect that lines to get into the show will be slow moving and long. I do hope that visitors respect the fact that the Scouts who are Jamboree participants have paid a lot of money to participate and don't try to sneak into participant activities. I would also remind patch traders that there is a rule in place that does not allow adults to trade with youth members. They can trade with other adults. It is wise to keep to the paths and roads and not allow young children to go and play in the wooded areas. Areas where the Scouts will be have been sprayed for ticks, but the woods have not. It is a good idea to have chosen a place where your group will meet if you should get separated. Last Jamboree we had the mother of a Scout who was confined to a wheelchair. While it was stated that there would be vans available to transport people like her, it wasn't the case. In 2001 they did direct her to drive to another entrance and everything worked out fine. I don't think with the added security this year that she would be able to drive in. I'm not sure if any arrangements have been made for handicapped visitors (I know they do everything possible to accommodate handicapped Scouts)It might be an idea to call ahead and ask before leaving home. Please don't take your son off the base, it could result in a very big headache for his leaders. Please don't bring any pets!! I have some deep concerns about the little fellows in the Troop that I'm serving. Some of the younger Lads have only got one summer camp under their belt. Even then, they came to camp on Sunday, Parents night was Wednesday and they home after breakfast on Saturday. These little fellows will arrive at the site tired, they have a lot of very hard work getting their camp site set up and it will either be very hot or very wet. Homesickness is almost to be expected. A parent who visits and tells the Lad how great everything at home is and how good the A/C is and that Grandma and his favorite Uncle have been taking his little sister out to all the amusement parks is only going to make this worse. Don't tell him that you have moved!! But don't make his homesickness any worse by not thinking. If you think that there is going to be a problem when you are ready to leave, have one of his Leaders close at hand. Hopefully the Leader will be able to take the Lad under his wing and keep an eye on him. Most times when you have gone and he gets back into the swing of things, he will be fine. Eamonn.

scoutldr While you do make a good point. I really prefer to see people who practice what they preach, when it comes to training. Also how can a Leader who does do whatever? Answer a question about using it? When he never has. As one of them there white haired (Way past gray) haired Scouters with a long service pin all I can say to that is please don't judge the book by its cover. Eamonn

The Americans are working on that. Eamonn

Hey Unc, The Vatican wouldn't be part of Italy. It is a Country by itself and in its own right. Kind of like Canada is. Eamonn.

While not wanting to stray from the thread I do think that Cubmaster Mike has brought up something that sad to say seems to happen far more often than it should. Someone not turning in money. I have had people on my doorstep wanting the District (Key 3) to get involved. Sad to say we can't do anything to get the money back. We can talk to the CO and let them know that they have a problem. I have had the Council ask me to help them track down popcorn money that wasn't turned in!! All I can do is ask. When I was Cubmaster we had a parent who didn't turn in money from a fund raiser. The Pack Committee, sent registered letters, called and even set up a repayment plan up with the parent. In the end the committee seen that they were not getting anywhere and handed it over to a collection agency. Please don't be shocked that the District or the Council didn't do more. We don't have any methods that you don't have and the money belongs to the CO. Eamonn.

I have to agree with Bob White. Many Leaders do learn a lot more when they are asked to present the training. But as a rule the asker will be looking for people who are not only good presenters but who seem to have a grasp for what they learned at training and are using it. Ours is a small District where it seems everyone knows everyone, when I was Training Chair. I wasn't going to ask the SM who doesn't use the methods of Scouting to present a session on them. To my way of thinking this sends the wrong message to the participants. If you are looking for a hard and fast rule that says that Scouter's have to return every so many years you are out of luck. There isn't one. I have found that the people who do return for a refresher course are as a rule the people who either don't need it or if they keep coming back they are somehow using it as some snob value.These people take every training that is offered and are so busy being trained that they never use what they learn. They do find time to chew your ear off telling you how many training's they have attended!! Wood Badge is mostly seen as a one time only. Strange thing is that every-time I see the NLE Training I see something I missed or I see it in a different light. I think the videos that go with the Scoutmaster Specific Training are really good and are worth taking the time to view again and discuss. They cover a lot of important things in a very short amount of time. If a SM or ASM has gone through the Outdoor skills and is still not comfortable, I think rather than retaking the course that he should contact a Staffer and I bet something can be worked out for some one on one training. Many Leaders come away from Training's on a "Training High" they want to fix everything all at once. Many ASM's never get the opportunity. Some find the wiggle room and slowly change things, others just give up. It really not their fault. The Patrol method wasn't all it could be in the Troop which my son is a member. They never send any Scouts to what was JLTC. OJ, managed to wangle a position on staff (Friends in high places?) He staffed the course twice. He really did put a lot of time and effort into making flip charts, talking with me about what the words on the paper meant to me and what he thought they meant. He also with the OA took NLS. When he was elected SPL, He was clever enough to see that he wasn't going to change everything that his SM had been doing wrong for the past 20 years (SM, is a Silver Beaver, two time Jamboree SM, ex-district activities chair.Wood Badge Trained. And a very nice guy) But OJ seen places and things that could be changed and he worked on them. He is too busy to staff the new course this year. I have been involved in training for about ten years. Nothing that I have ever presented is a big secret (OK,so we don't broadcast some of the sessions from Wood Badge, not because we want them to be secret, but we want them to have a power that might be lost if everyone had seen the presentation 99 times before.) I try really hard to show participants where the material came from. Most can be found in the Boy Scout and the Scoutmaster Handbooks. For Wood Badge The One Minute Manager Books by Ken Blanchard. I would sooner see a SM or ASM use these resources and put them to use than return to hear me drone on again and again. Some people attend trainings because they want to. They arrive with an open mind and heart. They want to go home with lots of new tools and skills. Sad to say others come because they feel they have too or they want the patch or the beads. They think they know everything already, they want to pick holes or argue about everything. Some have their own agenda, they feel that National or the Council or District has wronged them and they use training as a place to let "Everyone" know their displeasure. Of course a well trained Trainer doesn't allow this to happen!! To my way of thinking it wouldn't matter if these types attended training four times a year. There is no way even the best of Trainers is going to win them over. While people like Bob White and myself do at times sound like a broken record suggesting that training is the answer to most things. I can't speak for Bob, but I think that there are a fair amount of very well meaning people who even with the best intentions in the world are just mule headed and the trainings we offer just don't stick!! Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

While we do have a lot of Forum members I would like to point out that in 10/2004 There was /is a long (8 Pages!!) Thread on Patrol size. The thread can be found at: threadID=75455#id_76616 The discussion did get, shall we say a little heated. I hope that is not going to be the case again. I would refer you to that thread as I have said all that I want to say on this and it wasn't that long ago. Eamonn.