Eamonn

OK, I'll bite. "That same boy can choose to stay in his pack with his buddies to finish up AOL." No he can't. While I hate to sound like a book thumper. The Lad has until he is 11 or he completes 5 grade to meet the requirements. Much the same as a Boy Scout has until he is 18 to complete Boy Scout requirements and Venturers and Sea Scouts have until they are 21 to complete the requirements in Venturing and Sea Scouting. A Crew Advisor or Skipper can not sign off a boy for any of the requirements needed to become First Class . If the Webelos Scout has not met the requirements by the time he is 11 or completed 5 grade. He has missed the boat as far as the AOL goes. By this time his buddies are either in a Troop or have "Aged out" The Den he was a member of is not there any more. Boy Scouter's should not be signing off on Cub Scout advancements. As far as "Yah, everybody's goin' off tellin' people they can't do this or that, it's not da program, yadda yadda yadda. I wonder if we'll ever get tired of it?" I can't talk for anyone else but the program is the program and I'm happy to follow it. If we want to toss the requirements out the window? It's not going to be the program any more! Why bother having age groups? What happens when the Lad turns 12 and hasn't met the AOL requirements? When do we say enough is enough? I'm sure none of us want to harm any of the Scouts we serve, and while "What's the reason in terms of what's best for kids and our service to them?" seems to me to be saying "Eamonn you are a mean hearted nasty person" This isn't the case. (At least I hope I'm not.) I feel bad for the Boy Scouts who fail to meet the Eagle Scout requirements by the time they are 18. I feel bad for the little Lad who doesn't meet the AOL requirements within the set time. But the rules is da rules. Eamonn.

Help!! I'm really confused!! WDL Mom, you posted: "Webelos II would be "allowed" to join a Troop as soon as they turn 11" I get that! In fact I thought it was ten and a half. You went on to say: "The idea being that the WebII's are getting bored and we need to get them into a Troop sooner.." This I didn't get. As I thought most 11 year olds would already be in the Troop. Scouts that had been held back a grade would more than lightly be in the Den with Scouts in the same grade as they are? Not always!! But most of the time. As I understand it once you move from one grade to the next. You move -Ready or not!! That is to say if you are in the Wolf Den and the Den moves on to become Bears. You start working on the Bear Book, even if you haven't completed all the Wolf requirements. The same is true of the AOL,once the Den graduates you are done. Advancement in Webelos is signed off by the Den Leader, Scoutmasters and ASM's shouldn't be doing Cub Scout advancement. In many ways this teaches the young Lad a life lesson about setting and meeting goals. There are of course exceptions to every rule. While I didn't and don't agree with it, our one time Field Director started a "Pack" in a Day Care facility that cares for mentally handicapped adults. His argument was that they hadn't completed 5th Grade. While this might well be true, I know he only started the unit for the numbers. But to answer: " Had anyone seen a program where a boy was registered with a Troop and also continued to work on his Arrow of Light at the same time? No. He is either a Cub Scout or a Boy Scout, he can't be both. Once he is no longer a Cub Scout he shouldn't be working on Cub Scout advancements. DE's and Councils have a lot of authority, but they can't rewrite the program!! Eamonn.

It's been a long time since I was in Cub Scouting. Still I thought (and I welcome any correction) Boys who are 10 may join a Troop if they have received the Arrow of Light Award or have finished the fifth grade. If a Lad is 11 he should be in the Troop anyway? This isn't moving them into the Troop early, it's when they should be there anyway! In our area nearly all the Webelos Scouts cross over in the early spring, and the first year Webelos move to become Second year Webelos School breaks for the summer at the end of May. This is when most Packs and Dens slow down for the summer. We don't have a Third Year Webelos Scout program?So where would these Scouts go? If a Lad hasn't reached or earned the AOL by the time he is 11 or finished fifth grade? I would want to take a long hard look at the program that is being offered. Eamonn.

RangerT, I had no intention of offending anyone. If I did so? I'm sorry. So far I have not had any dealings with these Ship /Crews.(I never said "crew advisor's hand out advancement like candy" What I did say was: "Talking with other Skipper's they feel that these Ship/Crew units are going to be handing out Sea Scout Awards like candy. I'm not sure about that.") The comments were made after a Venturer in New England claimed to have met the requirements for the Quartermaster Award and all the paperwork needed was filed. Eamonn.

While Sea Scout Ship's don't have to follow the Sea Scouting advancement plan. We do, it seems that most of the Ship's I know do. Being as we are where we are, during the winter we are left looking for things to do. A lot of the Venturing program is up to the individual. We opted to use the Ranger Award because the core requirements are in line with the things that we need. While of course a Crew can do all the activities that a Ship can. If they decide to go into the depth that the Sea Scout advancement program requires? They might as well be a Ship. Talking with other Skipper's they feel that these Ship/Crew units are going to handing out Sea Scout Awards like candy. I'm not sure about that. Some of the requirements in Sea Scouting are very involved and are hard. I know I'm new to it and maybe don't do as good a job as more experienced Skippers do. Hopefully in time I'll get better. The program is painfully expensive and is not for every kid. While I know I have a bias, I do think Sea Scouts in whites are not sore on the eyes and talking for the Scouts in the Ship I serve they like to wear it. -Maybe because we don't wear it very often? The friend from the other Council thinks that having this Crew/ Ship all lined up in whites is going to look great! This is true but the program is more than just the uniform. I have been told and again I'm not sure if it's true or not that Sea Scouting is the fastest growing program in the BSA. (I have no idea how anyone came up with that?) If it's true? I can't help feeling that this might prove that maybe? Just maybe? Someone has got it wrong. Maybe the youth do want an advancement program? Maybe they do want a uniform? I have a theory and it's just yet another Eamonn theory that most Sea Scout units are not one year wonders because the adults are committed to the program, far more than a good many of the adults who get involved in Venturing. We don't seem to see as many "One Year Wonders". We also benefit from the fact that most Ship's are real units. I was checking out the new improved BSA web site. Just for fun I did a search on the Find a Crew or Ship. I put in my zip code. The results were 12 units. We were listed. But looking at the list I seen: Crew 304 Adelphoi Village Colony Home (A detention center.) Crew 1518 Outside in School of Experiential Ed (I'm not sure what this is but I have to wonder what sort of program they offer?) Crew 975 Westmoreland County Juvenile Services Center (Kinda makes me wonder about putting the "Outing in Scouting") Crew 191 Adelphoi Village Alliance (Another detention Center.) Four of the twelve are not what I'd call real units. I might not really understand much about what some Crews do. I have seen HS Ski clubs sign up as Crews in order to get the BSA insurance, same thing with HS marching bands. Of course there are some Crews out there that follow off the wall activities that my little pea brain might not grasp. But nearly all the Sea Scout Ship's I know of are doing stuff I can understand. I hope we never see the "Out Of The Box" thinking that Venturing has seen. Eamonn.

Yesterday at long last we had OJ's Eagle Scout Court of Honor. My love for my son is endless. I have always been proud of him, but yesterday this pride reached an all time high. He planned every part of what happened yesterday. My role was heating the food and paying the bills. The people he invited were people who were special to him and who have played a big part in him being the man that he is today. Some of the teachers he'd had in grade school,teachers from high school, Scouting friends and the adults who have helped him grow over the years. My head was so enlarged I thought I'd never get through a door way as people came and said what an honor it has been to watch him grow. Ken Hager, the NE-Region OA Chief, who has been with OJ all through the OA was MC. The two of them took their Ordeal together, Brotherhood together, both got Vigil Honor at the same time. OJ was AVA when Ken was Lodge Chief and was Section Secretary when Ken was Section Chief. They have worked on camp staff together and attended two Jamborees together. Other Scouts who OJ has worked with did the important parts of the ceremony. Sadly due to the chemotherapy Her Who Must Be Obeyed has lost some of the feeling in her fingers. I so wanted her to pin the Eagle on him, but I was a very happy second choice. There were about 160 people in the Fire-hall. OJ picked the menu: Fried Chicken (from wal-mart) Canned potatoes, canned corn,the mother of one of the ASM's made rigatoni and cake. (Sam's Club has a BSA approved cake where you can put a picture in the middle, with the Scout Law around the picture.) Needless to say he made out like a bandit! His boss from the pizza shop (an Eagle Scout) gave him tickets for tomorrows Penguin play off game) A whole bunch of Eagle stuff and $850 in cash.) I was asked to say a few words and I went out of my way to tell the most embarrassing stories I knew about him. I of course thanked everyone who has gone out of their way to help my son. I finished by saying how the best thing we can give our kids are roots and wings. All the people there have played a part in giving him strong roots and now he "Really' is an Eagle he has his wings. Yesterday is a day I will keep with me till I'm no longer. I'm so very proud of my kid and so very grateful that I live in an area where other people go above and beyond to care and love kids that one day just arrive, either in a class room or Scout meeting place. They of course don't know the new arrival. But they take him under their wing, they take time to care and nurture these new arrivals. They work through the bad times, the "Growing pains" the sassyness(is that a word?) Yes yesterday was a wonderful day, thanks to people just like the people who post and read what's happening in this forum. You do make a difference. Thank you. My role now is to play it forward. I think in time OJ will do his best to help other Scouts. He will be part of my legacy. I was close to tears last week when I read about the young Lad from Beavers Troop. I thought of him yesterday and offered a little prayer. I also had a word with the "Big Guy" about Army Staff Sgt. Jesse Williams, was killed in Iraq a week ago Saturday.On his second tour of duty in Iraq. He was 25. I never met Jesse, he was from Santa Rosa,but he was a remarkable young man,reportedly already is in line for a Bronze Star after he single handedly pulled two fellow soldiers from a burning vehicle after it struck a roadside bomb three weeks ago. From what I have read, he came into Scout late, disliked school but went on to become an Eagle Scout. I'm saddened by the fact that the parents of the Scout from Beaver's Troop will never be able to pin that Eagle on their son's chest. I'm sure that Jesse's parents once sat at his ESCOH and were every bit as proud as I am. Jesse Williams is survived by his wife, Sonya, his 11-month-old daughter Amaya and his mother, Janice Leonnie and his father. He is also survived by the 2 men he pulled out of the fire. I don't know them, I don't even know their names. Still they are here today thanks to a 25 year old Eagle Scout who really took the Scout Oath and Law to it's highest level. I'm so very proud that my kid has joined the ranks of people like Jesse. I thank God for the gift of my son and I will remember Jesse and the Lad from Beaver's Troop in my chats with the "Big Guy" Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

While as I have posted in the past, I'm not a great lover of the Venturing Program as it now stands. And yes I know that Sea Scouting is supposed to be part of Venturing. Still it kinda seems to me that many if not most Sea Scouters are a crusty old bunch (Exceedingly nice, but set in their ways!)who want little or nothing to do with Venturing. I'm not sure and don't seem able to get a real count of how many Sea Scouts we have here in the US? Someone informed me that there is about 500 Sea Scout Ship's which are home to about 7,000 Sea Scouts, about 4% of the Venturing total? This sounds like it might be about right. Here in the NE-Region, especially in the Chesapeake Flotilla the Sea Scouting program offered to our Sea Scouts seems to me to be a very good program. The Flotilla has a lot of things going on, the adults seem to know each other and work well together. Our Scouts after a few events get to know each other even though they come from different states. The Ship's tend to not be very big, which works well as the boats used can't accommodate large numbers. If the rumors I hear are true? There seems to be a move to bring Sea Scouting and Venturing closer together. I heard that once the Sea Scout Manual is revised it will become part of the Venturing Handbook. While both programs cater to the same age group and both can be coed. I feel other than that we have little in common. A friend of mine in another Council has been involved in what seems to be a fairly good Crew has just started a Ship/Crew. I'm really unsure how this is going to work? He thinks it will add another level of activity for the Venturers? I think I can see how a Sea Scout or a Venturer can be in both programs? I'm not sure how they will find the time? I'm not sure how a unit could present both programs? We (The Ship) thought we would work on some of the requirements needed for the Ranger Award over the winter. But with the best will in the world there just wasn't time. Or maybe I just wasn't able to find the time? Eamonn.

I was talking with a Lady I met at Philmont before one of the Jamborees (I think it was the 2001) She lived in California. The amount that her son was paying seemed to be really out of sight. While they add a week or so to the Jambo. Doing a tour of the East Coast. Which isn't cheap. They also have a lot of "Add ons". Everyone is expected to have the same shoes, bags, jackets. She is /was? deeply involved in Scouting serving as a Council Commissioner, but she was a single parent and was really unsure how she was going to pay for this trip of a life time. Filling Jambo Troops? Can (not always!) depend a lot on who the leaders are. We split the Council into a North Troop and a South Troop. Being as we have four Districts each Troop recruits from two. In 2005 three of the Leaders came from the same District as myself. (I served as SM) We only managed to get one Scout from the other District. The two ASM's came from healthy Troops and the Scouts from these two Troops made up more than half of the Jambo Troop. It was on a "First Come, first served" basis. I would have loved to see more Scouts from the other District. I just couldn't come up with a fair way of dealing with it. We did have a waiting list and were very fortunate that we were able to place Scouts in Troops from other nearby Councils. We as a Council have for many years provided a lot of Jamboree Staff members. Mainly because our Area President, who is from our Council is in charge of one of the Action Centers. OJ went as a youth staffer in 2005 working on the COPE course. He paid only $250.00 but had to provide his own transportation to and from. Our good pal Hops Scout was busy working on the rappelling wall with a merry band from the same Council as me. OJ can't wait to go back. Ea.

In 2005 the cost for a Scout was $895.00. This covered the Jambo cost. Travel by luxury coach to and from. Transporting all the gear. Training Weekend. Jambo cap. 2 Jambo T-shirts. Meals on the way to and from (one each way.) 12 CSP's And a few little extras (Watermelons, extra ice and other stuff I had parents bring in.) We sent two full troops, from a Council of about 5,000 traditional members -I'd guesstimate approx 1,200 Boy Scouts. We had no problem filling the Troops. We had a few fund raising events to help offset the cost. The biggest gripe I heard from the parents was for having to shell out for extra full uniforms. -Even though the Council sold them at cost. So far each and every Scout that went tells me it was the best Scouting event that they ever attended! Sure A.P.Hill is only about a five hour drive. Having two empty buses and a empty truck go home and then return to pick everyone and everything up adds a lot to the cost. We used to have a Scout-Friendly bus company who donated their services, but sadly the ownership changed and off course gas wasn't as cheap as it once was. $90.00 a day is a lot of money! Still I think it's money well spent. Eamonn.

Still being a young whippersnapper! I joined Scouts in the UK just about the time when the Advanced Party Report and all the changes to UK Scouting came into effect. My brother, who is four years older than I had been a Boy Scout and I had been a Wolf Cub. The Advanced Party Report (1968-1969) Was in many ways responsible for the birth of a lot of "Alternative" Scout organizations /Associations. Sweeping changes were made. Wolf Cubs became just Cub Scouts. Boy Scouts became just Scouts. We said good bye to Senior Scouts and Rovers and hello to Venture Scouts. The Scout Law went down to only seven points. The uniform became a dress type uniform. Sadly a lot of "Old Timers" seen this all as just being too much and quit. I of course being only a little fellow was raised in the "New Scouting" Was it better or worse? Don't ask me! I only knew the program that I was presented with. Sure I read about how things used to be and some of it looked like a lot of fun. Moving from the UK after going all through the Scouting programs in the UK and spending over ten years as a Scout Leader (Scoutmasters went out with the dawn of the Advanced Party Report) To the USA and becoming involved in the BSA was a shock. Things are very different. Still here I am. If I want to be a member of the BSA? Doing things the way it's done is what I should do. I suppose I could start an "Alternative" organization. But to do so would mean not having all the resources that are available to me and the Scouts I serve that the BSA and BSA membership offers. Most Scouts and their parents judge Scouts and Scouting by what goes on in the unit that they belong to and maybe what they see of other units in their area. The parents that do get involved might gain some sort of an insight as to "What the book" says? Still very often even this makes little or no difference, as when they bring up "What the book" says all they hear is "We don't do it that way!!" Scouts UK just went through another overhaul. I think because membership was declining at a great rate of knots. Talking with the Scouter's who were Scouts when I was a Scout, there seems to be a 50/50 mix of those who think the changes are really good, while the others just don't like the changes. But it also seems that the units that were strong and offered a good program before the changes are still doing so and the weak units are still weak. Eamonn.

"So - in what ways does your troop address more serious behavior" Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. The Boy Scouts of America is a values-based youth development organization that helps young people learn positive attributes of character, citizenship, and personal fitness. The BSA has the expectation that all participants in the Scouting program will relate to each other in accord with the principles embodied in the Scout Oath and Law. One of the developmental tasks of childhood is to learn appropriate behavior. Children are not born with an innate sense of propriety and they need guidance and direction. The example set by positive adult role models is a powerful tool for shaping behavior and a tool that is stressed in Scouting. Misbehavior by a single youth member in a Scouting unit may constitute a threat to the safety of the individual who misbehaves as well as to the safety of other unit members. Such misbehavior constitutes an unreasonable burden on a Scout unit and cannot be ignored. Member Responsibilities All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit. If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents. Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action. The unit should inform the Scout executive about all incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member. Copied from http://www.scouting.org/cgi/gss/viewall.pl I see my role as the Skipper of a Sea Scout Ship as helping the Scouts I serve meet the goals that they set. Of course discipline plays a very big role in ensuring that the Scouts remain safe. Point 16 of The Sweet 16 of BSA Safety reads "No supervisor is effective if he or she cannot control the activity and individual participants. Youth must respect their leaders and follow their directions." If a Scout is unable to show the respect required to other Scouts and the adults. His or her parents must be contacted and remove the Scout. (Normally after the adult in charge has talked with the Scout) What happens next is out of my hands,this is one of the reasons we have a committee. A few years back I asked a friend of mine who is a Lutheran Minister, if he would have a word with his "Boss" to make sure we had good weather for an upcoming event. He reply to me was that he was in the delivery business not decision making. I see the role of leaders as being in the delivery business! I'm happy to have the committee act as judge and jury. Eamonn.

"even though you can pontificate at times as much as Eamonn," "Besides, I certainly don't want to get as bad as Eamonn" Who ME?? Pontificate? Hey!! I thought I was wrong once -But I made a mistake!! Eamonn.

Our Council doesn't hold them. Never has and talking just for myself. - I hope never will. Ea.

Welcome David. I feel sure that someone in your neck of the woods will help you fill all that extra time you now have. Fred Your welcome to all the horrible white stuff that lands in my yard. Eamonn.

I really think you need to seek the advise of a lawyer. Eamonn.

Hi Welcome to the forums. Sounds like a real mess!! Are the two boys brothers? Is the leader their Father? Were you an eye witness? I think my first port of call would be to the Pack Committee Chair or the COR. If you suspect that the father is putting his kids at risk you need to look in the phone book and call who ever handles child abuse in your area/state. While maybe? A SE might remove him from the BSA, chances are that he will not want to get involved in what he might see as a family matter. If child welfare or who ever it is in your area deems that action is needed, then the SE will need to take some sort of action. Eamonn.

Thanks for all the good wishes. We put our traditional Easter Dinner(Roast Leg of Lamb) on hold till next Saturday. Sunday we have OJ's ESCOH, with family coming in from all over the world. I'm not sure if this is the "Onion snow" ? Or if the squirrels are just shaking the dandruff from their tails? I do know it's not very warm! If them squirrels have this much dandruff we have a real problem! So much for global warming! Ea.

OK maybe I'm splitting hairs? Still I have never liked this "We make men out of boys" thing. First off I don't think the girls in the Sea Scout Ship I serve want to be men!! I'm unsure what this "Man" thing is all about? I'm a very different man than my father was. His role in our family was that of the bread winner. My Mother played her part by taking care of the home and the kids. His culinary expertise ended with making a pot of tea. He never ever changed a diaper or fed a baby. Maybe I'm not a "Real Man" because I really dislike guns? I can't stand violence ? I get watery eyes with sad movies? Maybe my thinking magazines like Playboy and Penthouse are degrading to women, makes me less of a real man? Could it be that in business I have gone out of my way to be fair and not cheat or swindle people that I'm not a good business man? I'm happy for kids to be kids. Sure I want to give them the tools that will be of use when they go out into the real world. But I enjoy kids being kids and I'm honored that they allow me to share that time with them. Seeing a couple of Lads building a fort in the woods, making snow angels, kicking up fallen leaves.The sheer joy of just being a kid is not something to rush. I'm happy to tap into their imagination as a way of getting the scouting message over. I know at times I get carried away with quoting the Vision and Mission (which does refer to the Scout Oath and Law) Still I much prefer the idea that we are helping the young people we serve understand the Golden Rule, than some macho idea. I think I'll know that I have done a good job with the young people I serve, when they not only understand the Golden Rule, but also understand that the Golden Rule is of no use to them whatever, unless they understand it is their move. Ea. (Ask anyone who has attended Wood Badge this century and they will tell you what the Golden Rule is.)

"Well, we're suppose to be making men here, not boys." Have to admit to never knowing what this "Making Men" thing is all about. "then he is on the ground doing 15 push-ups" Might be seen as making boys into men? I can train a dog by installing fear into him or her. Of course being that I love dogs, I much prefer to teach the dog that when he does what I want him to do he will get rewarded by a kindly pet and kind words. Boys will grow into men without any help from us! I'm not in any rush to see the Scouts I serve become Men or Women. I'm happy that they are young and I want them to enjoy being young. Making Boys into men is not the same as preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. My goal is for a Scout not to do the stuff that he or she shouldn't be doing because they know that they shouldn't be doing it -Even if they can! A Scout who decides not to use bad language because it's wrong and because he shouldn't is very different from a Scout who decides not to use bad language because he will end up in front of the Troop looking like a twit doing push-ups. One way is right and the other is just plain wrong. I'm happy to do my best to help build youth into quality citizens by: Building Character, Fostering Citizenship,Promoting Fitness. Scouting aims to build self-confidence, problem solving, compassion, acceptance of personal responsibility, and leadership skills within each Scout. This allows the individual boy well prepared for life in an adult world. We spend a lot of time talking about building character. I think when we talk about building character we mean the qualities of a person that makes him self-sufficient, motivated, charitable, concerned for others, and willing to accept the responsibilities placed before him. Last time I looked this was still the Boy Scouts Of America. -Not the Men Scouts of America. Eamonn.

As a parent and a Scouter I (Not the Ship or any group) have things which I deem to be unacceptable. I'm willing to allow horseplay and carrying on to a point. In fact I see some horseplay and carrying on as being part of being a kid. Just because a boy or girl wears a BSA uniform does not mean that they have sprouted wings! The A in BSA doesn't stand for Angelic!! Some behaviour is totally unacceptable and does need to be dealt with by the Unit Committee. Some might call for the SM to call the offender to one side for a word in his or her ear. I'm not big on lists of rules and that sort of thing and am happy to use the Scout Oath and Law as my yardstick. There are times when maybe the utterance of a not so nice word can be ignored. I see this as being a lot different than using bad words and name calling as a regular thing.Which can't be allowed. Maybe you should find a way to bring this to the attention of the Troop Committee and the Leadership Team. If it was brought to my attention. My first thing would be to take a look at Why? Why is this happening? A lot of horse play is the result of Scouts having nothing else to do. If this is the case again the question why comes up. Is this due to poor planning? Are the activities the Scouts face too easy? Or too hard? I'm a very firm believer that the devil does find work for idle hands. I don't agree with stevejb and the push up idea, this just isn't the way we do things. I don't care if it works or not. I do agree with talking to the Scouts as a group and explaining why this sort of behaviour isn't acceptable. As a rule I have found that once I have asked and explained why we don't allow or accept this, the Scouts buy into it. All the adults are supposed to be setting a good example, if it seems that they are unable to do this? Maybe the time to look for a Troop with better leadership is needed? Of course maybe they don't realize that they are doing it and a word in their ear is what is needed? I would be very careful as a parent to not allow my kid to come off as some kind of little angel!! Not only do I know that he isn't and can at times be as big a little toad as any other Scout. I don't buy into the "it gets stuck in his head for a week or 2 after campouts." Idea. It only gets stuck if he allows it to stick!! Boys will be boys and the son's of Scouter's qualify as being boys our job as leaders is to try and channel that energy into them doing something useful with it. We do that by providing a program that they think is worthwhile, fun, adventurous and challenging. If bad behaviour and lack of respect has been allowed to become the norm in the unit? It isn't going to be a quick fix. It will take time to kinda work its way out and will require every part of the unit to work toward getting rid of it. Eamonn.

Pint, Overall I think Scouting in the UK seems to do a far better job of reaching out to all the youth than we do here in the USA. Of course I'm only going on my past experiences! Living in a big cosmopolitan city like London, there was ample opportunity for the program to be very diverse. The Troop I served as Scout Leader had 90 Scouts. It was 60% Non-white. The area of London had seen a lot of changes. When my parents moved there just after the war it was predominately an Irish working class neighborhood. I don't remember any non-white kids attending Holy Cross School or church. First came the High Rise Council Flats, what we might call the projects. Then for some reason the area became really trendy!! In fact to make way for Chelsea Wharf (Where apartments rent for $201,400 a year!!) they demolished a subsidized housing estate. By the time I got to high School there was a mix of kids from all over the world. One reason for the size of our Troop was because we really reached out to recruit in the "Not so nice" areas. Sadly at that time many of the leaders still were very much old school who held some sort of prejudice. Some even went as far as using terminology that just was not acceptable then as it is unacceptable now. Of course where I live now the opportunity to mix just isn't as available. But it does seem at times the BSA has become a mecca for white, right wing, middle class people. A few weeks back you posted about the bad language that some of the Scouts in the Troop you serve use. While of course bad language is never acceptable. I do think that many BSA Scouter's would be far more shocked than many English Scouter's would be. Because the kids we serve don't come from families where kids would ever hear this sort of language. Ea.

The semifinalists for the position of Chief Scout Executive are: Wayne Brock Director, Southern Region Ponce Duran Scout Executive,Circle Ten Council Tom Fitzgibbon Director, Western Region Robert Mazzuca Assistant Chief Scout Executive Don McChesney Scout Executive,Atlanta Area Council Gene Stone Director Northeast Region. The committee will meet again on April 26 to determine the finalists. Final interviews are set for May 22, 2007. Ea.

purcelce, Wow!! Wide Screen!!! "Bobwhites rule!!!! " ??? However I seem to remember that somewhere near Belleville IL lives a very active Bob White. You have of course heard "I'll set the dogs loose!!" Well, any reports of you not making time will result in the Bob whites being let loose!! Which can be very painful!! Causing very sore ankles. Ea.

gwd-scouter About this time of the year we see a lot of empty seats in the club, all the golfers have taken off to your neck of the woods. Every year they invite me, but while I do own a set of clubs, the truth is that I just don't enjoy playing. A few years back we were setting up for our District Golf outing. A very good friend of mine who is a Doctor sponsors the event. It was at the Youghiogheny Country Club. As we went from hole to hole placing the cards that local business had bought to sponsor the hole, he would stop and look out over the view and then tell me that this indeed was God's country. He is a super nice man. His family escaped from Cuba. His Dad worked two jobs to see him through school. They lived in Florida. I looked over the view across the fairways and the greens and sure enough it was nice. But I think being a young Lad playing in the woods is more like God's country? Daniel Boone is quoted as saying I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks." The day of that outing I couldn't find the Club!! So I pushed the blue button (I always think of Ringo in Yellow Submarine!!) for Onstar. This was my first Onstar experience!! It was like talking to God. All of a sudden out of no where this voice filled the car! I had our DE with me and for some reason we started whispering to each other -I have no idea why? I asked the voice for directions to the Youghiogheny Country Club. We were running a little late, because we were lost and maybe I wasn't in the best of moods! The voice came back asking "How do you spell Youghiogheny?" I snapped back "If I could spell the darn thing I could find it!" So much for being "Cheerful" Ea.

Hi, Welcome to the forums. I just looked back over what you have posted before. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed to me that you and the Tiger Den were having fun? Small units have a rough time! Big Packs with 50 or more Cub Scouts do at times have a hard time selecting and having all the positions filled. Try looking at the percentage of involved parents the Pack you serve has? I'll bet you beat the pants off the bigger packs. One of my big failings in the past and even now is that I have allowed myself to judge other peoples commitment to the program, using my commitment as the yard stick. This isn't a good idea. We all promise to do our best. I'm guessing that the Committee Chair also has daughters? She might be guilty of taking on too much? But I'll bet that she is doing her best. You don't post what isn't working or what isn't been done? At times when we attend training's and gatherings where there are a lot of Scouter's we hear and see how things "Should be done" Or how they "Get things done". This is a good thing, but for the Pack you serve to get to where "They are" Should become a goal. Something to work toward. Talking of goals! Maybe at the next Pack Management Committee meeting it might be an idea to write down a few goals. We have some for our Sea Scout Ship. They include: Increase membership by 25%. Find another female leader. Get into the local Junior High Schools for Sea Scout Presentations. Have a seven day long cruise. You of course will come up with goals that fit your needs. Share the goals with the other adults. Along the way celebrate the reaching or almost reaching of each goal. Every new Cub Scout is the Pack reaching it's goal -Cup cakes at the Pack Meeting. Recognize each and every person who helps the pack. Nothing big or expensive, even a Lifesaver candy on a ribbon can be a way of saying thanks. Of course new units tend to revolve around a few people. -Maybe just one person!! It is however important that no one person or small group claims ownership. The unit is there to provide a program for the youth members. We are there to serve the unit following the program. When I find myself falling into that gloom and doom mood, I try hard to think of the good stuff and the funny stuff. It's been a long time since I was in Cub Scouting, but I remember like it was yesterday a little Lad coming up to me telling me how nice it was to have a grown up who would listen to him. I have carried that with me for a long time and it still makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Ea.