Eagle92

Qwazse,

Back in the day, the OA election team would go into great detail of the entire process. Usually I would talk to the SM and give them some paperwork to fill out prior to the election, and the youth would review it, make sure everything is correct, then go over everything with the scouts prior to the election. Sometimes we played a video, and sometimes we did it by memory. But talking about it in advance eith the SM, especially a new SM, is a good idea.

Not only do the Folks in Irving have challenges, apparently some of the volunteers who helped implement the program's changes. Everyone keeps harping on the the fact that a very small percentage of Venturers earn any recognitions. For whatever reason, they seem to forget that the awards are not, and never were intended to be advancement like Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Sea Scout ranks, but instead recognitions for Venturers to work on IF they, or as I was taught by the national director of Venturing at the time, the Charter Organization is interested in the recognition program.

As others have posted, it seems as if the troop had a "bad night" in planning activities for Webelos. Sounds as if they are following some old, established routines for Webelos visits, and haven't changed with the times. Gotta remember It wasn't until recently, 2002 or thereabouts,that Cubs started to do active camping, and some packs still don't, or cannot, camp. I know of 1 CM who still cannot comprehend that Cubs can go camping becasue she was around when they couldn't.

As for the "boring" section after Game Time, that was the norm growing up as we played hard and had the "boring " info stuff right before closing and dismissal.

My advice is to visit the troop when you are not expected. Will there be organized chaos, absolutely. if it is boy run. Lookfor things like, who is teaching, who is running the meeting, how old are the Scouts ( IMHO if you got 15-17y.o.s and/or 18-20 y.o. ASMs, the troop is doing something right.)

Finally, GO CAMPING WITH THE TROOP (caps for emphasis, not shouting. OK maybe a little shouting as I'm going through camping withdrawal ) I have found that camping with the troop will make, or as happened with my son break, a troop.

And if you want to read about what to avoid, look up some of my recent posts, staring from about October 2012. My CO's troop is a "Charley Foxtrot" at the moment.

One thing I liked about the old Leadership Corps program, being a member of it could be used for a POR without specifically assigned duties. Grant you, LC I grew up in did have some folks with assigned positions, Instructor. ASPL, etc, but some folks had no assigned duteies, but were expected to g'git 'er doner" when told to do it.

Unfortunately the election is over and done. As sst3rd stated, the process should have been explained, the nominees announced and if any problems arise, it needs to be handled BEFORE the voting.

Don't feel to bad though. I had to wait until my 3rd year being eligible to get elected into the OA. Gopod things come to those who wait.

Being a smart aleck now,

Looks liek we can call Venturers "Scouts" now.

Some pointers are here: http://www.seascout.org/ Best sources for a CO include local Power Squadron, USCG Auxillary, local marinas and yacht clubs. PM me for more info

Yep, while most ECOH's I've seen were adult run, I've seen one or two where it was youth run, and in one case 100% OA run.

Me personally mine had a mix of adults and youth. I had an adult MC, but youth had major speaking parts. One thing I tried to do, although it didn't work out, was get Eagles who had influenced me to do the "roast" the Eagle Challenge, and the Eagle Charge. There were 4 Eagles I wanted there, but only 1 showed up, and just barely. The one who showed up, the SPL when I first became a PL, had just gotten home from Iraq a few days earlier. 2nd Eagle, who also was my SPL when I was a PL, was still overseas.

Now the last two, well let's just say they put college rivalry first. Would not speak to me that semester due to me taking NROTC at their rival university. Which actually worked out better since A) all they did was push and push me to get Eagle instead of having fun, and B) I felt obligated to include them since it was my uncle and cousin. I was able to use some of the Eagles in the audience, and it was hilarious when the first Eagle had just finished roasting me, ending with comments how I really deserved Eagle, only to arise a few seconds later challenge me.

QUICK UPDATE: To quote Gandalf the White, "There's always hope... a fool's hope." For the first time in over 2 years, the troop had a representative at the RT! Ok it wasn't one of their registered leaders, and he showed up 20 minutes late, BUT THEY HAD A REPRESENTATIVE THERE!

The parent who was suppose to go camping with the troop showed up to get info and represent the troop. He doesn't want to register because he is in the process of starting his own business, and cannot really commit like he would like. reason for being late was taking care of work.

I am hoping and praying things turn around.

If you are referring to the pants that do become shorts, the size 36 is with the elastic fully expanded. Back in the day when I sold them, I would suggest getting a size, sometimes two sizes, bigger than needed, for the scout to grow into them.

I compltely for got this uniform option. I remember seeing one CC wearing the dress uniform, aka professional uniform, or blue blazer, "barber shop tie," white shirt, grey pants, and BSA coat insignia .

Yep, everything comes in cycles and change happens. The troop that is now considered the best one in the district by many was having issues a few years back. Troop that was considered the best at the time, is now losing scouts left and right. Found out another scout left them to join another troop.

Well, after the Chinese made shoddy boots I had, I decided to buy American made boots. I like Bates footware, but for whatever reason it started huting in one particular spot an I returned them. Father-in-law said try Thorogood boots, and I have been wearing these, http://www.weinbrennerusa.com/dspNavCategory.cfm?rootid=1&catid=105&prodid=395 for almost a month now and am loving them. The look good, I wear them at the hospital, and am on my feet constantly now doing all kinds of tech set ups.

The ones I wanted were these, http://www.weinbrennerusa.com/dspNavCategory.cfm?rootid=1&catid=104&prodid=149 , but I needed new boots ASAP and could only afford the 6" sports hikers. No complaints so far, but we'll see how they hold up.

Again THANK YOU. Some follow up.

1) I told the first mom that A) give the troop some time, especially since the new ASM who was our CM will hopefully turn some things around and B) if the new Scout continues to be discouraged and frustrated, there are other troops out there. I mentioned the troop that moved to their church, and all, emphasizing ALL, the other troops in the district.

2) Not only request that some else take over as UC, even if it's in an activing capacity, but drop them like a hot potato. A lot of people's patience ran out with the troop, not only those scouts who left but also a bunch of other leaders who have tried to help. I need to quit wasting my time.

3) I will not actively promote my son's troop, but when asked why he went where he did, tell them.

4) If folks tell me they are looking for another troop, continue to tell them about all of the troops in the district.

5) If I am doing Round Ups, and Boy Scout age youth show up, I will actively promote my son's troop, and not the troubled troop. Already lost 2 boys to Scouting doing that, don't want to lose anymore.

6) deal with the troop only when I must.

While I hate the quote when it was done movie, I think's it's appropriate here. "NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Lord Vader, SW Ep.III RotS

Grant you I have a bunch of uniforms, but I did see one guy with a baggie in his pocket with the different colored loops, different unit numbers, POR patches. He used velcro.

BUT beprepared for some joking due to the velcro We had a scout in my troop growing up whose mom did the same thing with his rank badges. Only rank sewn on was his Eagle.

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

Best UC I ever encountered was the one that served as the pack and troop's UC before he passed away. Been there, done that, had the t-shirt. Also had the tact, courtesy, and charisma to work with folks. Boy do I miss him.

On a different note, if the concept of the 'Scout Group" that you propose replaced the current concept, then the commissioner role in some shape or form, group leader perhaps, would be vital to coordinating everything and mentoring the leaders within the group.

back for a few minutes.

2) continued. Don't know what happened to their UC that took over in Aug/September.

3) DE and district commish know of the problems. Unfortunately we have a new commish, and new chair, who don't know what has been going on.

4) COR and CC are MIA. Had a very long talk with the SM when I stayed overnight with the troop. Everything I mentioned was responded with excuses, how Scouting needs to change with the times, or how the district needs to change how things are done, specifically having trainers from other districts come in and provide training (instead of the leaders driving to where the trainging is being offered.

5) For the last camp out they actually had a new ASM and one parent going along. Both had BALOO ( I know not the same as IOLS) both have extensive camping expereince as Scouts way back when ( ironically both were in the troop my son joined and had the current SM as either ASM or SM in their youth) so I would have no problems with them camping on their own. Problem is SM has this notion that IOLS is required for camping, which it is currently not by this council. ( different note: I personally would use the new ASM for IOLS staff due to his extensive camping experience, as well as his EMT and pioneering background.

More later

Folks,

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

More later.

Well, I feel like I'm in a no win situation. As most of you know, my old den moved up to Boy Scouts, and my son and his buddy went to a different CO's troop. Two of those new Scouts have brothers who are in my Wolf Den with my middle son, so I have some contact still. Last week we had the pack's PWD, and one of the Boy Scouts attended. I asked him how things were going, and he appeared to be getting discouraged with the troop already. I asked mom about it, and she was definitely not a happy camper. The troop had cancelled last month's camp out last minute because the SM got sick, they have cancelled meetings due to weather without telling everyone it was cancelled, and no one knows what is going on. They haven't even started on summer camp planning, and they want to go to a popular out of council camp!

This weekend while doing Scouting for Food, a the other mother who's older son was in my den and has a younger one with me too, asked me why I chose the troop my son joined. I told him, he wasn't too impressed with the CO's troop when we went camping, he had friends in the other troop, and he liked the fact that they go camping every month, with the goal of doing a HA activity every 4 years, so he may miss the one they are trying to do in 2 years, he'll be able to go after that as a youth. She was also telling me about the same problems that the scout and mom had when I was at the PWD.

I have tried my best to stay neutral towards the troop. Heck I have tried to train all their leaders ( only 1 showed up because "it was too cold to camp"), counsel and advise them im my role as their acting UC ( original one died, and i am it until a replacement can be found), I have recruited new scouts for them ( had some reservations doing so, and turned out to be correct as the kids left after a few months and now won't give Scouts a 2nd chance), and even stayed overnight with them on a camp out to insure 2 deep leadership when everyone left except the SM, his son, and one scout whose mom went out of town and couldn't be reached when they tried to call her.

But I'm here for the boys I want them to have the same opportunities that I did.I want them to enjoy scouting, but seeing and hearing all the problems, I am seriously in a no win situation. I do not want the CO's troop to fold as I know how hard it is to restart a troop, but I do not want to lose those scouts.

As Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramiez ocne sang, "B-A-L-A-N-C-E, balance...." While I agree that the scouts need to elect their own leaders, once reason why I am glad my son joined the troop he did, if you only have 1 experienced scout, then you may want to appoint him as the leader for 6 months with the job to get troop started so that they can do it for themselves. Then in 6 months time, IF the patrol wants a new PL, they can do an election.

IMHO, a PL needs to the knowledge, skills, and abilities to run the patrol. Will he screw up, of course he will. Will he learn from his mistakes, I sure hope so. But taking a brand new Scout, and making him a patrol leader IMHO is setting up the patrol for failure, even with a troop guide to mentor. One reason why I am for mixed age patrols that allow "older" scouts in the patrol to buddy up and mentor the new guys.

But once the new guys are capable, and they want to elect their own leaders, they need to.

While i do not find the Field uniform 100% practical for field use. I do think some improvements have been made since I joined in the mid 80s.

I like the 1st generation nylon switchback pants, the ones with the zipper in the ankles. Ok they had the wrong waist sizes, and were a little long, but I have used them in the field for both scouting and non-scouting outdoor events.

I am also glad for the Thorlo lt. uniform hiking socks, http://www.scoutstuff.org/centennial-boy-scouttm-uniform-thorlo-lt-hiking-crew-sock.html, and again have used them for the outdoors. Only complaint I have about them is that BSA is stamped onthe foot of the sock, not made into the top like the green uniform socks, and some "uniform police" have tried to nail me on that. PLUS I've found the same exact socks, with BSA on them, at Walmart once. Also don;t like the fact they do not make a knee sock version

Haven't used the Thorlos foudn here yet:http://www.scoutstuff.org/centennial-boy-scouttm-uniform-thorlo-hiking-sock.html

As for the shirts, the original ODL shirt wasn't for the ouotdoors IMHO. I got a long sleeve Centennial shirt, and it's ok. Don't have one of the newer shirts with a yoke.

BUT I loved the tan, collared activity shirt made just before the CUs came out. Used that alot in the summer

My Godfather was a Eagle Scout (1936) and as far as I know spent most of his adult life camping every weekend from late March through late October (Wisconsin). He spent 4 years of WWII in a Japanese prison camp having been a Marine captured at Wake Island. Then he spent a few years in the US Army in Korea. He was a fuel oil distributor spending most of his time outdoors year around. When he wasn't working he was riding his bike around town. I really think he hated to be indoors. Before becoming an Eagle he was a "city-boy". Maybe he was a city-boy, but he surely wasn't a Parlor Eagle in any sense of the word. I like to think of myself as an avid outdoorsman, but compared to him, I'm really just a Parlor Scout myself.

 

People have lost all concept of what adventure really is all about. Any scout who plots how to fulfill a camping MB while sitting on the sofa talking on the phone, really doesn't get it.

 

Stosh

One of the Eagles I know did a collection of oral histories for his service project. He got the info on how to do it from the state archives, got tape recorders and tape donated, and sent folks folks out to interview vets. The transcribed it and turned it over tot he state archives.

Unfortunately 1 vet I know refuses to talk about anything he did in Vietnam until it becomes declassified, by which time he'll be dead. I had the opportunity to read his full biography that the wife gave me when I nominated him for the Silver Beaver, and I was like "DDDDAAAAAANNNNGGGGG!"

I take that back, one thing he did say was that the VC and Vietnamese Scouting officials in his area had an unofficial truce not to attack scouts on camp outs, which the VC honored

.

My troop encountered a situation where the CO wanted all the stuff and money in a unit's account before the troop folded. CO was one of those hands off units that provided just a place to meet and some storage. Long story short,the folding troop paid all their debts, using up all of the money, then sold my troop their equipment on the cheap. I think they turned over about $100 or so to their old CO.

When my troop switched COs because the 1st CO no longer wanted a troop, but instead a church youth group, we lucked out in that they didn't know exactly what we had until after they agreed to transfer the charter and all the money and equipment. I overheard one of the adults talking about how the old IH didn't realize the money and equipment belonged to the CO and was ticked off that she could have kept everything for the new church youth group instead.

I want to apologize if my previous posts have been incoherent. It's been a busy nite.

I use to think it took 3 years to get something up in running: one year to get it going, one year to learn from the previous year's mistakes and make new ones, one year to iron out the 2nd year's mistakes.Hence a troop should take 3 years to get really established and youth led.

But talking to some experienced leaders who have started and restarted troops, they say it usually takes 5-7 years. Part of that is because there is turnover in youth, for whatever reason.

The troop aint perfect, as if there is ever such a thing. And it is currently no where near how my old troop operated, which was an established troop with years of tenure. BUT they have very good leadership, both adult and youth. Both sets of leaders have a vision (yes, the adults have played a heavy part in that, but I think a lot of that is that the Scouts have been so coddled and protected by not only parents but society in general, that they do not understand their potential. Their eyes light up when they hear some of the things us old fogeys did), and that is a "Hiking and Camping troop," that will be going on HA trips every 4 years to give every Scout that joins a chance to really test their skills.

I didn't attend the PLC, but from what I was told, the Scouts picked out everything to do except First Aid. Adults said first aid is an important skill every one needs to learn and practice, especially since we do have one Scout with severe allergies . So they want at least one month every year dedicated to first aid. And I think it will be January since A) that is the month that the New Scouts start with the troop and B) PLC holds their planning conference that month and there is no time to really plan an outing. So they do a lock in instead.

I see so much potential with this group, I am happy oldest picked it.