dsteele

The answer to the original question is more complicated than it appears on the surface. There are two parts to professional "ranks."

There is title -- which is based on basic position descriptions, and classification -- which is numerical and tied to pay rate and scope of responsibility. Scout Executives are classified according to the council size.

There is a large degree of variance between same title, different classificaiton.

District Executive/Learning for Life Executive is an entry level position and starts at class EN -- until they attend PDL-1 (the first phase of training.) After PDL-1, there is usually a bump in salary and they become a Class 1. After PDL-2 there is usually another bump in salary and they become a class 2. Usually. I say that because these options are up to the Scout Executive.

After PDL 3 they either move, or become a Senior District Executive (usually a class 3.) Senior District Executives can be class 3-5, depending on the scope of the assignment.

To clarify what just confused me and I have all the charts, title will tell what a professional does for a living. Classification will tell you whether it's a big elephant they have to eat or a small elephant.

For example, I have the same title as the Assistant Scout Executive in Chicago. However, my position is a class 5 position and his is a class 12. His elephant is a whole lot bigger than mine. However, as he told me, no matter how small your elephant is it's still an elephant!

Classifications for non-Scout Executives go from 1 to 12.

Classifications for Scout Executives go by the classification of the council, which is based on total available youth, membership, budget, and some other factors I'm forgetting at present. The smaller the number, the higher the classificaiton.

Class 800 councils -- the smallest size. I won't throw membership numbers around because there's a lot of variance. However, a council this size usually has a Scout Executive and maybe two DE's. This would include places like Dubuque, IA; Port Huron, MI; Garden City, KA; etc.

Class 700 councils -- a bit larger, but still considered smaller. My own council is a 700. These councils usually have a Scout Executive and 4 or 5 other professionals. This includes many councils such as Greensburg, PA; Racine, WI; Kalamazoo, MI; Lansing, MI; Traverse City, MI; etc.

Class 600 Councils -- considered medium size -- usually between 8-15 professionals (largely depending on budget and the size of the council territory.) These are places such as Mount Prospect, IL; Rockford, IL; Madison, WI; Peoria, IL; etc.

Class 500 Councils -- considered major-mets. Usually 15-20 professionals. These are councils like Indiannapolis, IN; Cleavland, OH; Cincinnati, OH;

Class 400 councils -- larger cities. I really wish I had my list with me, but I left it at the office. I believe Honolulu, Hawaii; and Denver fall into this category.

Class 300 councils -- Detroit, Kansas City, Atanta, etc.

Class 200 councils -- there aren't very many of these. L.A.; and New York are the ones that come to mind.

I'd tell ya more, but I've got a small elephant to eat.

DS

I'm not going to answer for RMV, but I'm relatively sure that the $250K he's trying to raise is a service area goal (the districts he supervises.)

He's much larger council than what most of us are used to, including Eamonn. If we added up your council and my council, we might be half the size of his.

I wasn't threatening to blow raspberries (although I've done it twice today.) I was advising the guy with the old back patch to do it.

In the interim, we're doing okay in FOS, but still a ways away from our $120K goal. We'll get there. I just wish I had you and Twocubdad here to help us do it.

DS

A=C

DS

If you go to www.batelnet.bs/customs.htm you'll find all kinds of phone numbers for Bahamas Customs. You can ask them what you need.

Of course, like any beaurocracy, I'm sure reality will differ.

DS

Most states, if not all, have what's called "good faith reporting." You do not have to have proof of your allegations, only a belief that they are true.

DS

It's a tough climate to raise money, I'll admit. But I'll agree with Bob White that 80% isn't enough. Many councils are looking to cut expenses. The problem is, where do you cut?

Eliminate positions? Save salary, loose someone who can raise money.

Not feed the Scouts at summer camp? Not really an option.

So we focus on fund-raising. In our council, FOS is running ahead of last year, but summer camp sign-up is down, United Way cut us significantly, and the spring popcorn sale was way down.

We're re-doubling our efforts on fall popcorn and wreath sales. Also adding a special event.

DS

I'm not at all familiar with the policies of the GSUSA. I am, however, familiar with the general practices to prevent and report child abuse.

I think you have some serious concerns about these two counselors and I applaud that you have stuck to your guns throughout this thread.

The point you raised about these counselors teaching the girls "strip dancing" and "encourage girls to experiament" are both examples of child abuse, as has been pointed out.

I think it's time to contact the Department of Family and Children's Services, or child welfare, or even the police with jurisdiction over the physical location of the camp. Have as many of your observations and facts as you can. Most states do not require that you gather proof or eye-witness accounts. You're a college student, not a professional investigator.

Conacting the media might gather some attention, but it would also draw harm to the organization it's plain that you love. Go with DCFS or even the state police. They will conduct their own investigation.

Don't expect to get reports or updates from them. You will be making a "good faith" report (which will shield you) and they will do what they do confidentially.

I hope this helps.

DS

My only uniform pet peeve is an adult wearing the Eagle Scout Badge. Yes, they earned it, but the patch is a youth's patch. The adults should wear the knot. It preserves the honor of the youth earning the rank and still identifies the bearer as an Eagle Scout.

I'm proud of my red, white, and blue knot.

DS

PS -- I'm big on the spirit of the law. Wear the canoe badge patch and stay in the spirit. If anyone has a problem with that, stick your tongue out, wrap your lips around it and push air out. They should hear a pbbbbbbbbt sound!

DS

I don't know about the Bahamas, but I did serve a council in Michigan for several years. Several of our troops would attend a camporee in Canada. This was a while back, but for a time the Canadian Customs agents expected anyone taking kids that were not their own to have a copy of the child's birth certificate.

It couldn't hurt to have those with you. I'm not aware of any custody form (not issued by the BSA anyway,) but it's hard to steal a kid, let alone with a copy of his birth certificate.

DS

Eamonn:

I agree that it's sad to see a Senior District Executive leave the profession. I hope she fares well in real estate and that the parting is mutually amicable.

I'm also one that shakes my head to see a professional leave after the first three years. As far as I know, the BSA profession is one of the few that aknowledges that it's professionals are "basic trained" upon completion of PDL-3 in three years. That's about how long it takes a new professional to learn the basics and be ready for additional assignments.

There's another hump around year 8 where we tend to lose professionals. Wiser heads than mine have tried to figure that one out.

I'm working on year 15. I figure I'm a lifer -- maybe literally! The earliest I could retire is 20 years away. I imagine the Guide to Safe Scouting will cover jet-packs and teleportation by then. The Advancement Guidelines will have to address passing along rank requirements to clones

DS

I don't have one in front of me, but I think you'll find that permission to treat is part of the health form National sent you.

DS

Once again Bob White gave good advice. I'll add to it . . . try not to cheese off the support staff.

DS

Twocubdad:

I agree with you 100% on all counts. I'm not sure where communications broke down, either, but it's pretty obvious that they did.

DS

On the fun side . . .

I took the professional Wood Badge Course offered by the East Central Region in 1992. I took six uniform shirts, three uniform shorts and one pair of long pants. It was well worth pulling the patches off all those shirts to be the only guy with a clean uniform on all the time.

But that was a different deal than Camp School. I digress. My apologies.

DS

I usually let strings run for a while before diving in. I wait for selfish reasons -- I like to see what good volunteers like yourselves are thinking.

I really liked Eamonn's post. It was fair and asked a very good question.

I've been in councils where the FOS goals were set by volunteers (with professional guidance based on a lot of work looking at past giving, potential giving, manpower, etc.) In that council, in most cases, the goals the volunteers came up with were higher than those set by a budget-conscious Scout Executive . . . and were more likely to be achieved.

I think in the case in-hand, there were probably surprises. For example, perhaps after the goals were set (or proposed by the district key three, committee, whatever) the Scout Executive found out that United Way was going to cut it's funding to the council significantly, summer camp sign-up was down significantly, and the spring popcorn sale had a significant drop-off.

Someone has to figure out where that lost revenue will be made up. It starts with the Scout Executive. The Scout Executive probably shared his concerns (and vice-versa) with the council officers who may have decided to raise the goals in the areas where Scouters have the greatest control -- like FOS and popcorn.

I like the example RMV used where the district folks were brought into the budget process and had the wisdom to realize that they had to raise more in FOS or face the difficult decisions of what to cut out of the program.

I don't advise writing to the Scout Executive and saying that you'll raise what you'll raise and that's that. Better would be to request an appointment to find out the rationale so you can help by getting the volunteers in the district behind the concept. A request for understanding which may lead to more help is worth a whole lot more than a threat.

I understand Eamonn's frustration at being asked for as much as a larger district (more affluent to boot.) The bad news is that you are being asked to do more because of your past performance. The good news is the economic reality is on your side. If your SDE (who will be known among professionals as "one who can raise money") gets a promotion, you're going to get another good guy/gal and quickly.

In the case of "the guy who can't raise money," he may well get the boot and the Scout Executive won't be in much of a hurry to fill the vacancy.

As to "how is the money spent?" I'd be happy to weigh in to such a thread, but would wait a while to see the responses.

Have a good evening. My council will be spending some of it's budget on my services to the council training committee this evening . . . salary, gas, auto, meeting notes, etc.

DS

Twocubdad is I believe, referring to a Cub Scout National Camp School. I directed one of those once. As a director, I would have silently frowned at the one guy not in uniform, but probably wouldn't have said anything. Others would, however.

I also attended National Camp School for COPE. We wore uniforms for meals, flag ceremony, campfire, etc. We trained in "civies." As I recall, I was so sore when I got home I took my sweatshirt off with scissors!

DS

Silver-Shark --

So what other great fund-raisers can a council do? We're currently looking for ideas (yes, I'm a professional Scouter.) I wouldn't be opposed to a wine-tasting if a donor would pay for the wine, the advertising and other expenses. I'll admit I'm offended at the local Girl Scout's "operation thin mints" where people pay their retail costs to send Girl Scout Cookies to soldiers -- they're making money on the backs of those fighting this war -- but that's an editorial for a different thread.

We're currently (we being council volunteers and professionals) trying to come up with a way to fund a big decrease in United Way funding and an FOS shortfall due to the economy.

This question is not an attack, but a plea. How should we raise the $60,00 income we need?

Suggestions are welcome from any corner.

DS

The way I was taught to interpret the tour permit --- and I'm one of those who have to approve them -- is that one is needed anytime a unit leaves it's normal meeting place, except for council and district activities.

Even the except for council and district activities has been different in all three councils I have served.

I agree that the best bet is to err on the side of caution. If you think you might need a tour permit, then file one. It doesn't contain any information you shouldn't need or have.

DS

The original question dealt with procedure in removing a family from a troop. I haven't seen anything relating to unit, but found it in a couple of places in reference to district or council volunteers.

The information can be found in "Selecting District People" #34512D in Section 9. It's also found in the Administration of Commissioner Service manual.

Basically the procedure is to send a letter or make a personal visit. It's recommended that, if doing a personal visit, that it not be done alone.

DS

As a DE, I kept hearing about a camporee that began Friday in one park, and then moved to another park on Saturday. Both parks were on the same river. The goal was to move from one to the other, either by boating, biking or hiking. There wasn't a whole lot of structure to it, but it had a clear goal and was non-competitive. The boys really liked it.

While a Field Director, I had a district do something completely out of the ordinary. They had two or three "lock in" locations for Friday night. Sometime during the night, uniformed police officers came in and told them that someone had kidnapped MacGruff (the crime dog) and gave the boys compass directions to start looking for him on Saturday morning.

The compass directions got them to the train station (the district had rented a Metra Train) that took them to Woodstock, IL. It's just up the road and is the birthplace of super slueth Dick Tracy. The boys then spent the rest of Saturday following clues that eventually gave them the combination to the DE's briefcase, which held t he directions to Saturday evening's campsite.

It was probably the coolest camporee I've ever heard of. It was pricey and hard to pull off, but it was pretty cool. It about killed my poor DE, however.

DS

Does an accident waiver get people out of accidents?

I don't know what they meant by "accident waiver." I think they may have meant "permission to treat." The health form that serves as the back of the application has a built in permission to treat. If one of your Scouts is injured and needs medical treatment, the hospital won't treat unless the parents have given permission. That's why the tour leader should have those forms when on an outing. Otherwise, you could find yourself sitting around a hospital waiting room while someone looks for the parents. I had that happen to me once at a camporee. The Scoutmaster didn't have the form and the parents had left town for the weekend. Not a lot of fun.

You are correct that the kids are covered by the accident insurance, if the council or unit has purchased it.

DS

Funny story --

It is possible to teach Scouts knots TOO well. A buddy of mine that I grew up with enlisted in the Navy. While at boot camp, his knowledge of knots got him into a bit of trouble.

When they had their knot-tying session (one of many, I'm sure,) he showed up with his bowline already tied. The instructor caught him and called him to the front of the room, made him untie it and yelled at him while he was at ease. He tied the knot again behind his back!

He got a lot of push ups for that one.

DS

For those who miss the 100% cotton uniform, I have good news. It's still available, although most Scout Shops don't keep them in stock.

There are actually 3 fabric choices available in the current field uniform.

The most common is the 65% poly 35% cotton. I really hate the pants.

Both shirt and pants are available in the 100% cotton some of us remember. I have a couple of them. They're not easy to iron and the color fades, but it's a hearty uniform and I like it in the field.

Most of my uniforms are the 65% poly/35% wool. They're pricier, but they look sharp and hold their creases nicely. It's my uniform of choice. You're supposed to have them dry cleaned, but I've been tossing them in the washing machine and dryer with no problem.

DS

I used to have a pair of old Boy Scout spats and wore them when I was a kid in southwestern Michigan. They did a good job of getting me through thorns.

DS

nldscout nailed the by-the-book answer exactly right.

One-on-one may be required by your council, but it is not a national rule.

DS

Tip from a lefty --

If you're right handed and are having difficulty teaching knots to a left-hander (like my poor Scoutmaster had to teach me,) stand next to the Scout in front of a mirror. Have him watch you in the mirror. That's how I finally learned the bowline.

DS