dsteele

A fireside chat is where the council key three (in most cases) goes somewhere into an open forum and takes questions from whoever asks and answers them the best they can.

Boy, that ain't easy! My Scout Executive actually does these, and it amazes me how often he has to do them alone. We're not a big council (185 units and 7,500 youth including 2,000 Learning for Life.) There's no way that at any given time everyone is happy, so he goes in knowning he's going to get an earful. I'm not surprised that most councils don't do this. Enough people call to complain in a given day that to go out and ask for questions is a burden.

I'm only an Assistant Scout Exeuctive and haven't done a fireside chat, but let me give you an example that might help you undersand why you don't see your scout executive on a day-to-day basis.

First let me tell you that it isn't his/her job to visit district events. It isn't even his/her job to visit council events -- that's why he appoints a staff advisor. His/her job is to manage the council's finances, follow BSA policies and procedures, and increase membership through his/her staff.

Now to the example -- I once supervised a district director who had parental requests to start a new pack at their school. The problem was that the school was one of three served by a single pack. The leadership of the pack was unhappy that this DiD was starting another pack so close to theirs. They literally hounded him day and night by phone. He finally gave up and I stepped in.

The Cubmaster of the existing pack called me and asked if I would meet with himself and the committee chairman to discuss ways they could survive with another pack so close to theirs.

I agreed to the meeting, thinking that we were making progess. I'd heard the argument not quite a thousand times, but I've heard it a lot. It has always born out that more kids were served and no unit has died because of proximity to another. When I was a Scoutmaster I had a troop literally on the other side of the street. Their boys would never have joined mine and their boys would never have joined mine. (Presbyterians are philosophically different than Pentecostal.)

Anyway, I agreed to the meeting. When I got there, I expected to have a nice meeting with the cubmaster and committee chair. They were there, but so were SIXTEEN parents. (Before anyone dives in, I did try to take a volunteer with me, but the 12 I asked were all busy that evening.)

I was a field director at the time and field directors are defined byh skin thick enough that they don't need bones. But when they offered me a chair and I had to answer all questions from 18 p'oh'd people, it made for a tough day.

End of story -- the existing pack's membership stayed about the same. The new pack started with about 15 kids and has grown. The private school (existing pack) and the public school (new pack) basically share the same parking lot.

This professional . . . ain't about to have a fireside chat and take on a district. Not without a council president and commissioner by my side.

Just a few thoughts and one ugly memory.

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

You folks are amazing. Keep it coming. Special hello to Dancin' Fox. I will call, I promise.

Saltheart -- my father is an architect, so I know a little bit about it. How can you be both an architect and an engineer without self-destructing? From what my father tells me, an engineer will tell you that you can't throw a paper towel into a waste basket because in order to hit it you have to get it halfway there, and halfway from that, and halfway from that -- and since there are an infinite number of fractions between zero and one -- the towel will never get there. He also tells me that an architect can get it "close enough!"

Scoutldr -- I know what an industrial hygenist is. I learned it the hard way when I asked my Dow Chemical district chairman if he cleaned machines for a living. Oops.

DS

Tenure and experience are mutually exclusive, but one doesn't necessarily effect the other.

I think that's what we're all saying. I have no problem with tenure as long as people stay fresh and learn and do new things. One of the things they teach us at professional development is "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." It isn't true, by the way because the law of diminishing returns comes into play.

I served the same district for 8 consecutive years. We made quality each of those eight years, but only because the volunteers shifted positions.

Sticking around isn't, in and of iteslf, a problem. Repeating over and over again the previous year, is.

Keep it fresh and succeed. Developing expertise is a good thing . . . not being open to new ideas isn't.

DS

That is good news!

But, Ed, don't let darkness take you. There are good people. In the case of Mike, there were doctors and nurses who cared for him. There were friends like you and those of us who didn't even know him who prayed for him. There was his loving family. And there was God.

Cling to the good in the world, my friend. There's a lot of it, but it ain't enough.

DS

I should get tired of saying "Bob's right," but I won't because he's right. Bob, coming from a lefty, that's a high compliment.

I once reported to a Senior District Executive, multiple person (that title is the precurser to District Director) who, according to him, had seven years of experience.

When I mentioned his seven years of experience to the finance direcor, he said, "You've had four years of experience. He's had one year of experience seven times!"

As a boss, that guy drove me nuts . . .

DS

I didn't think you were demeaning anybody. I just got a kick out of it, that's all.

I think national supply makes all manufacturers hide their brand names. We don't endorse products, but they come from somewhere (U.S.A. of course.) I don't know if the red wool (or Philmont) jackets are Woolrich or Pendleton. I think they're Woolrich, but does it really matter?

DS

Amen to Eamonn.

Enjoy the slant rhyme, my friend. I minored in Literature in college.

DS

Boy, you guys are right. I read one old thread last night that set me off. Not the topic, but the way people treated each other. I did post, though.

I told them who I was and kind of chewed on them a little. Told them to email me if they wanted input from a professional. I read more than one thread that made us pros sound like the kind of people that weren't even worth the kind of bad jokes written about lawyers and used car salesman.

Sparkie! Are you J.K.? Say hello to Skelly for me. I'm still Scouting -- have told my wife to bury me in my uniform (which I'm wearing at the moment thanks to a Wood Badge staff development session.) How are things in old NWSC? (You can email me offline with the answer.

DS

This is great! Keep those cards and letters coming!

I had a few jobs before graduating college and joining the profession.

My first job, of course, was handicrafts director at Camp Rota-Kiwan in Kalamazoo. They hired me at 14 years old (when the inspectors came that year, the camp director wished me a happy 16th birthday. I kept my mouth shut about my age, but it was a little difficult because my father was on the camping committee and had to pretend to be my older brother.)

I also worked as a library page, dishwasher, clothing salesman and did 7 years of camp staff.

Thanks for you input. Keep it coming, please

DS

If you read my profile, you'll see that I'm a profesional scouter.

What do you do for a living? I'm trying to sample a large cross-section of scouters to make sure we have a large section of scouters.

It's not a scientific survey. I'm just curious.

If you're a lurker -- and that's one who reads, but doesn't post, and I'm okay with that -- I encourage you to take a moment to register and answer the question.

If you're an un-confident lurker who would like to post something, I encourage you to try it! This is a great group of people. After all, if I'm not afraid to try it (profesionals usually get the stuffin' kicked out of them when they jumpp into a well and completely volunter-run group like this,) you shouldn't be.

So go ahead! What do you do?

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

Sorry, not enough said. Bob White stumbled on an irony that's too rich to pass up. I like Bob and from all his posts that I've read, I've never disagreed with him. Ain't about to now, but this should make you smile . . .

On page two of this thread, Yaworski said that when he's bumming around, (or words to that effect,) he wears Dickies. He does this because he feels that he would be a public menace being seen in jeans. That tickled my funny-bone.

Bob then said, "In that case Yaworski if the BSA ever decides to have a unifrom that looks grundgy and bum-like I'm sure they will look to you as a role model and incorporate Dickies into the uniform."

What's the irony? Bob didn't know that the company that (at least used to) manufacture a lot of BSA uniform parts was none other than Dicky!

You were wearing Dickies and didn't know it!

I agree that the usual uniform pants are crap. I refuse to wear any pant with elastic in the waist. Don't even know if it's still there.

Several in this thread complained about the price of the uniforms. As was explained to me by Chief Scout Executive Ben Love in the late '80's (me and about 300 other professional scouters) the uniforms are expensive because we insist that they be 100% U.S. union made. We get a huge amount of support from American Labor and will support them equally fully.

Are the BDU's made in America? I really don't know. That was a real question, not sarcasm.

And I don't even want to hear about $40.00 Dickies. I wonder myself why you can buy Dickies so inexpensive and still pay through the nose for BSA pants. The answer I got when I asked the head of National Supply at PDL-3 was that they don't sell nearly as many pants to the BSA as they sell pants and our die lot is exclusively ours.

DS

I can't tell you how many Eagle Scouts I've charged in my 15 years in the profession. I can't tell you, not because it's secret, but only because I don't remember.

I tell them that I don't care if, years down the road, they know how to tie a square knot or cook a cobbler in a dutch oven. I do tell them that they should live their lives in such a way that no one ever says, "Him? An Eagle Scout? No way!"

It should be, "He's an Eagle Scout? Why doesn't that surprise me?"

We teach values. If we expected him to become an expert fisherman, we'd change our aims and methods. Tell your other adults to lighten up.

However, tell your kid that he should listen to the old man's advice and "bone up" on his knowledge when needed.

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

I just looked through the syllabus to see if it listed sources for the material in the session. I didn't find any. However, page A-61 of the syllabus (it's in the appendix, so it can be copied,) lists resources, most of which were used to develop the sessions.

You should be able to get a copy of that page.

Hope it helps.

DS

People always say it so fast, that I thought it was woodbadge unitl I became staff advisor and started reading the syllabus. I remember that it's two words because the Wood Badge is referring to the beads.

Either way, it's still a great course. The fact that a lot of people call it woodbadge, in the grand scheme of things important, one word or two really isn't on the radar.

DS

Sounds like I could have some fun there! After 15 years of full time employment in the BSA and having been a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer and Scoutmaster, I still don't know it all. But I know where to find most of it. Hee-hee.

Thanks for the info.

DS

I think this is a great forum. Are there any others like this one? I know Scouter.com is the biggest and best, but does anyone know of other, similar, message boards? I'm not particularly interested in list-servers.

DS

I haven't done it as a troop, but have been involved in finding old camp staff for camp staff reunions.

One great resource for finding people is www.classmates.com It worked great for a council, and should work even better for a troop because you have fewer schools to check.

Good luck. Congratulations on 50 years.

DS

I think you should definately go to Wood Badge (it really is two words, which it seems several posters don't know.)

I also think you should do some homework prior to attending that will help you write your ticket. Decide (if you haven't already) which troop you're going to join. Ask the leadership and parents about the needs/dreams of the troop. You can probably get a pretty good idea of the role you're going to take in the troop and have a good starting point.

Is Wood Badge missing something? I don't know. I can tell you that I staffed the old course three times and that syllabus was very good . . . but still had bugs in it.

Last October I attended the Course Director's Conference as staff advisor and was impressed with what I saw of Wood Badge for the 21st Century. I know a couple of the volunteers (there were many) that wrote the new syllabus and there's a lot of good stuff in there. It was, however, written by human beings and therefore will have some bugs in it.

I mean they found a typo in the King James Bible, didn't they?

DS

I don't agree with twocubdad's use of horse hockey. I always heard it as horse puckey! But that's beside the point . . .

I agree whole-heartedly with his sentiment.

Good job.

DS

PS -- leader sheep rings true as well. This guy has a grasp of the subtlety of American Engligh that I really appreciate.

DS

Guys --

Buy the 100% cotton pants or spend the bucks for the wool pants. Both are cut to fit like dress slacks, but have a real waist (no elastic) and no leg pockets. The pockets in back are actual welt pockets and not patch pockets (built-in vs. sewn on.)

I'm a professional who refuses to wear the usual, off the rack 65% poly/35% cotton pants.

I wear the wool when indoors and the cotton when outdoors.

And now back to Wood Badge . . .

one more comment, then it's time to go to bed.

Thanks, Sctleader, for the well-wishes and hopes that I get my dream job. Let me state for the record what that dream job is . . .

I hope someday, that I'll get a chance to be a Scout Executive. I've never coveted a national council position or a regional position. I want to be a scout executive -- within reach of the real leaders of Scouting. Those real leaders are the den leaders, cubmasters and assistants, venturing leaders, district committee people, commissioners and professionals at the local level.

When I left my district in Michigan after 10 years of service, the local newspaper (circulation 38,000) ran a half page article about me. Myself and several volunteers and one youth said the phrase "working shoulder to shoulder" about working with each other. I love that about the Scouting movement.

That's my dream. However, in about another 25 years, I'm going to retire. I plan to open a quilt shop and teach blue-haired ladies who to make high-class blankets. Seriously. I'm the only professional Scouter who quilts that I know.

I'm also serious about the Scout Executive stuff. Feel free to send me a private message if you're slated to be on a slections committee in 2005. Not that I'm campaigning. What pro-scouter would do that?

Cheerfully,

DS

Wow. Thanks for the kind words.

You bring up secrecy between professionals and volunteers, but it isn't a quirk of your council. I've seen it too many times.

One of the things I train my district executives (read indoctrinate) in is that if you have a problem, share it with any and every volunteer who will listen -- someone will help you. I'm referring to FOS, recruiting, rechartering, membership, new units, what-have-you.

I honestly believe that you don't have to reach very far in any community to find people who care about the health and welfare of the BSA. Sure, we have our detractors, but when the DE's meet one, I tell them to move on.

Here's an allegory . . .

When I became Field Director, I was told that D.E. X was a super-hero. After a couple of months, I could tell that he was. He was on top of everything, and, while some of his volunteers whined that he was pushing them too hard, he still came through with whatever the council needed.

I got to know his district chairman and asked him why people thought he was so pushy. The district chairman said, "He obviously has different goals than we do, but we don't have a clue what those goals are. How can we help him if we don't know what they are?"

I could tell he (and by proxy the district) truly wanted to help.)

The next day, I called the D.E. into my office. "Have you shared your critical achievements with your Key Three?"

"No." He kind of hung his head.

"How are they supposed to help you if they don't know what they are?"

I'll shorten this story at this point . ..

The DE shared his critical achievements (his job performance goals) with his key three. The light came on in their eyes and they felt that he wasn't pulling against them. They changed directions and made him glow in every area of his performance (and the district glowed as well. They grew by 10% in membership that year, exceeded FOS by 20% and had record attendance at all their district events.)

The reason he had not shared his critical achievements before was because his previous Field Director told him not to. (The previous Field Director is a friend of mine, but I disagree with him on this point.) The theory was that if he shared his critical needs with his key volunteers and they didn't agree, they could tank his career.

It's called theory y management versus theory x.

I'm a believer in people. Thankfully, the BSA is going much more toward that philosophy.

I hope it soon spreads to those that I call "Adult Senior Patrol Leaders" with the Scoutmaster patch on their sleeve.

Enough on the stump.

Have a pleasant evening.

DS

Pbbbblt!

There's your on-demand raspberry blower. God I love this Scouting stuff. Yes, Eamonn, I know you were teasing. I got a kick out of you getting a kick from the raspberry blowing. People are usually surprised to see an Assistant Scout Executive (abbreviated often as Ass. Scout Exec -- I don't know why,) blowing them the raspberries. I can tell you I learned it from my Scout Executive. If we can't laugh at ourselves, how can we laugh at anyone else (grin.)

No, I haven't seen the national FOS report. I only see the one for the Central Region. I'm proud to say we finally hit the left column, or the "top half." I just wish we were closer than 80% of goal now. It's only going to get tougher when the grass turns green and the air warm.

Have a good evening.

DS

I started in an inner-city district, and I know where you're coming from.

Is there a place at your meeting place where you can store the boy's uniforms? They may not want to wear them on the street, but I'll bet they're very proud of them. If you can give them the freedom to dress for the meeting just before the meeting, I'll bet they take you up on it.

Follow the youth protection stuff when they dress, but give them the opportunity. They dress for gym, they can dress for Scouts.

Just a thought.

DS

Whoops! Forgot to answer Sctleader's specific question.

Scout Executive -- (SE) top professional in a council. One per council.

District Executive (DE)-- professional Scouter working with one district.

District Director (DiD)-- professional Scouter serving a district. Supervises at least one other professional. The professional may be the District Executive for a different district, or be working in the same district, but reporting to the District Director. Varies by council. When I was a District Director, I called myself a Field Director that works for a living. However, when I became a Field Director, I learned that a Field Director is a District Director with no control.

Field Director (FD) -- has no district, but supervises two or more district executives.

For you guys in major metro councils . . .

Director of Field Service (DFS) -- supervises two or more Field Directors.

My apologies for the above post . . . most professionals don't know council names (they change.) We refer to councils by their headquarters city. Please be understanding if you use a council name in the presence of a professional and they look at you like you're speaking Chineese. They really don't know. Tell 'em where their office is and they'll understand.