dsteele

I'm back from vacation. I don't weather it well.

So I guess I discuss poop for a living. I'm not sure that's any better! KoreaScouter, I'm glad you liked it.

It's good to be back.

DS

It's good to know that we're surrounded by Scouters who really know their scat!

Sorry, guys. I just couldn't resist. I hope you both laughed.

DS

Well put. It's easy for us to forget that the Boy Scouts of America is a very large organization and that logistics can be difficult. Thank you for pointing it out.

DS

Bob:

I'm on vacation and have already been hollered at for being on these boards while taking a couple of days off . . . so I'll be brief.

On the national tour permit, there is a spot where you can request an international letter of introduction. The letter basically verifies your registration with the BSA and asks other scouting organizations to extend you simple courtesies.

You don't need to file a national tour permit to request and international letter of introduction. I would suggest you contact your local scout executive and have him request one for you through the international division of the BSA. Than you can look up the Boy Scouts when you're in Ireland and, hopefully, get them to hook you up with a local troop.

Have fun in your travels!

DS

Eamonn --

The simple ansswer is you write to them and invite them to the court of honor. They typically don't attend, but the inviation may trigger a letter.

The offices of the President of the United States and many senators and congressmen have standard letters that the staff send out. You'll have to dig on the internet or elsewhere for addresses of folks like Bob Hope. I was once at an Eagle Court of Honor where a beautifully written letter from Michael Jordan was read. I don't know how they got an address for him, but I'm pretty sure Michael didn't write it. Not that who wrote it made much difference. It had his signature on it and that was cool. In your particular case, it may be appropriate to write the Queen of England. Any response at all would be cool.

All I ask is that each letter not be read. You've been in enough Eagle Court of Honor audiences to know that you don't want the thing to go on forever . ..

DS

One last word and then I'm off for a nap (there really wasn't anything of interest on television.)

I am dressed. I'm also in my underwear, but have the decency to wear clothing over it just in case I feel the need to salute or sing the Scout Vespers.

One never knows when the urge will come.

Back to Gilwell . . . (seriously, I'm not a die-hard, just didn't want to package a chess set.)

Have a pleasant day.

I'm outta here for now.

DS

Thanks, TwocubDad for reminding me that I am on vacation. There's not much diferentiation betweeen work and play for a long-term professional. I see these forums as a way of playing.

However, your posts do bring me back to reality. If I caught one of my DE's spending his (actually I have as many her as I do him D.E.'s) taking time on their days off to answer Scouting questions, I'd knock their block off for running the chance of burning themselves out.

There's no snow on the ground here and the river broke up long ago. I think I'm going to knock off and go watch television. I'm in the midst of making a tin chess set -- pouring the pieces, filing them and then painting them. I'm at the stage now where the pieces are finished and the board is finished. All that's left is wrapping them in bubble-wrap for mailing to a professor I had in college. He has no idea that he's about to receive a hand-made chess set as a thank you gift from one of his students. It's just something I do.

I also have one now nearly completed for my old Scoutmaster. He has no idea it's coming either.

They take about 200 hours to complete and the materials aren't cheap.

However, I hate wrapping and boxing them -- which is why I'm on the boards during my vacation.

However, I know good advice when I get it.

I'll see ya'll tomorrow. The ya'll is something I've learned from afar. I'm a northerner.

Have a nice day! I am.

Dave

Jeez --

I think you guys have stumbled on yet another reason I don't want to work for National.

I'm a local guy. We get stuff out as close to when we say we will as we can. Stuff happens, and like everyone has pointed out, you try to budget for it. Sometimes more stuff happens than you're banking on. And sometimes even more stuff comes up.

Al I'm asking for is a little patience and trust. But I'm not asking you to be patient with me, or to trust me. I'm not on the national committee on Cub Scouting (there is one) or on the staff reporting to the National Program Director.

DS

Pam:

It sounds like a good rule to me. This is one of many areas that is somewhat open to local interpretation. Your council said 6 months to one year. It seems to have worked. Congratulations.

Eisley -- it's a simile. I said like an an extention cord.

One of the few benefits of my english minor . . .

DS

Let's go back to the Star Trek analogy, only this time we'll move to Scottie. He once said to Geordi, on The Next Generation (or one of the movies, I'm not that big of a Trekkie) "Never tell them how long it really takes!" This is a process we professionals call sand-bagging. If you're sure you can have it by August 1, you say, I think it will be available October 15th.

You can read my previous posts if you like, you'll see that I'm not one one those oily politician type professional scouters. However, things do happen.

Production of printed materials quite often takes longer than it is thought. The wrong color ink in one of the books can cause printers to go back to the blackboard. I know the difficulties in putting together a council calendar and can appreciate the economics of scale in producing a Wolf Book.

I do not disagree with Mr. Dad on the Scouting article, memos, etc. I think that should be done. However, my opinion on that kind of stuff carries less weight than anyone else's. If you want to grouse to the tire about the engine, go ahead, but don't expect an up-rising.

I did the math earlier to show that this is a large organization. I believe that we are led by volunteers and professionals who do have the best interests of the boys at heart -- but we're so big that anything we do will offend someone.

However, and I thank the kind people of Oklahoma and will probably take them up on their hospitality at some point in my career, ask you to follow up on my first rule of administration as it applies to your unit.

My first rule of administration is "Try not to be stupid."

It's a hard rule to enforce on yourself. I usually try to appoint a couple of V.P's of BS and give them permission to slap me if they feel I'm introducing a stupid concept or enforcing a dumb rule.

DS

Steele's option number three requires a leap of faith that is difficult to make.

You're an ASM and, I think, on the right track. Allowing our youth the opportunity to fail -- and I think that's what we're talking about -- is never easy. When the adults tell the youth what to pack and where to put it, I suspect it's out of fear that something crucial will be forgotten. Well, I say, watch the youth pack and if they forget something, just quietly pack it away somewhere else and let them ask for it later. In that way, they'll learn.

I hear this kind of complaint most often when by old-timers at OA events. The old-timers want to complain that this or that didn't begin on time, or that the boys are running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I shrug and explain that it's part of their training. If we don't let them screw up, how are they ever going to learn to do it right?

Like an old Scout Executive once explained to me when I was a young Eagle Scout DE exasperated over a group of Scouts screwing up a flag raising . . ."We're not finished with them yet."

DS

Thanks, Bob, for bringing us back on track.

While it is technically possible to charter units to groups of concerned citizens, it shouldn't be done except as a last resort. There are a lot of other options available.

As far as I'm concerned (this is an opinion,) a unit chartered to a group of concerned citizens is like an extention cord plugged into itself. The connection is met, but there isn't a whole lot of power when you need it.

DS

I've seen the interview for scoutmaster process before. I'll warn you that it can become ugly. This type of thing hit the newspaper in a small community within the district I served while a DE.

There is nothing that says you can interview for the position of Scoutmaster. There's nothing that says you can't. There's nothing that says you should. You can look for resources, but you won't find them.

The selection is up to the approval of your chartered partner. Since you indicate that you have many other adult leaders, I don't blame you a bit for the interviews. It may even be a good idea.

I'll just chime in my two cents -- that it is best to assemble the best minds you can and make a prioritized list of who to recruit as Scoutmaster. Then go out and ask them. Spare people from interviewing for a volunteer position. Who wants to do that? Besides, the candidate selected will probably do a better job and be more honored than the one who is "hired."

Just a thought. Not a policy.

DS

Twocubdad (although I like Mr. Dad as a title) I know you're not picking on me and I appreciate your blessings. I truly do. I am on vacation, but the fact of the matter is that I do not consider posting on this board to be part of my job. It's using part of my expertise, true, but I'm not duty bound to answer. I do it because I enjoy it and really feel welcome.

At any rate, my friend (I don't use that term losely,) you're right about the way it should be. I like your roll out plan for the new books. Your gripes are legitmate and I'm about to provide one scenario that hopefully will illuminate why reality differs from what should be.

My answer, by the way has nothing to do with anyone. I'll just illustrate the valid point of advance copies of the books and why it isn't possible . . .

The only tools I have in front of me are the latest issue of ProSpeak (the professional Scouter's newsletter) and a pocket calculator. The intangible tool I have with me is 15 years of experience.

So let's have some fun and make some projections (assumptions.)

As of 3/31/2003, there were 1,498,565 Cub age boys registered in the BSA. The average district (some are bigger and some are smaller) is 1,000 Cub Scouts. That's 1,498 districts. Now I think most districts have at least 5 people on the Cub training staff, but let's say there's an average of 3 just to keep the numbers lower.

That means in order to give all trainers advance copies of the new books we would need to take care of 4,496 trainers with 3 books each. That's 13,487 books!

Now, we should also make sure that all Unit Serving Executives -- what most of you call D.E's, have copies as well. There were 2,434 of those as of 12/31/2002. (Okay, so I have two tools in front of me at home on vacation.) Multiply their number times three books . . . 7,302.

Now we're up to 20,759

I suppose the 311 Scout Executives should have them as well. That's another 933 for a total of 21,692 books.

The Commissioners should have them as well. They're on the front lines and are one of the most important positions in Scouting. Again, my number of commissioners report is at the office -- it really does exist, but lets assume an average pack size of 30. It's less than that, but our numbers will be smaller if we go with 30.

There's 1,498,565 Cub Scouts, divided by 30 equals 49,952 packs. Let's say that we're off the ideal of 1 unit for every 3 unit commissioners, but for fun we'll divide by three and see how many commissioners we owe advance copies of the new book. That would be 16,650 unit commissioners.

So all told, we could use 38,343 advance copites of the new book.

Now who's going to pay for it? Shall we raise the registration fee to $85 or shall we put out a memo and give our best shot to getting the word out?

Please understand that I'm not angry. I am operating under the understanding that there's no reason most leaders have to think of distribution issues and printing issues faced by the national council. As I pointed out, I wear silver shoulder tabs and am a council employee.

TwocubDad, I wouldn't be the least surprised to find that someone with gold loops is lurking on this forum. Your brought up an interesting reality that I have shoved to the back of my mind. Hopefully others are as intuitive -- yes, I could lose my job if I answered incorrectly. I am taking on some liability -- although not much, by being a regular in these forums. Oh well.

Let's just say that I love the scouting where the rubber hits the road. I enjoy inter-acting with the volunteers who are doing what's best for the boys. I respect the heck out of the national and regional offices, but I'l stick to local council operations. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Bad things happened to Captain Kirk when he left the decks of the Enterprise. I'll stay on deck.

It's who I am.

Wanna buy a belt buckle?

DS

You've asked me before, and I'll say it again, Amen Eamonn! (That fits along with the tune of a song I've long forgotten.

Joni -- I can't help you. Try the "gods of the forums" under the contact us link.

DS

The answer to KoreaScouter's question is either found or not found on the back of the respective cards.

I don't happen to have either card with me at the moment, which means I can neither add weight or detract credibilaty from the myth at the moment. It also means I probably shouldn't be using my zippo st the moment either.

DS

Thanks for the offer of weight. I'll decline, however. I used to sell big & tall clothing and know how hard it is for men to find pants with over 42" waists, but few know how hard it is to find men's pants with under a 30" in waist. Or even a 30" waist for that matter. When retail is in a slump, it's the small sizes that disappear first.

When I used to have a 28" waist, I had to shop in the boys' department. That wasn't too bad because the boy's clothes were cheaper. But the zippers were shorter and that made life uncomfortable.

So I cheered when I could wear size 30's. Man's prices, but better fit.

I'm in no hurry for 32" waist, even though that would move me from small to medium.

Back to Scoutleader --

Being your own chartered organization would certainly be easy on the re-charter. Right up until you're gone. I don't think that's the legacy you want to leave.

DS

Amen, Eamonn!

DS

Thanks for providing the voice of reason, Barry. That's what I should have said rather than getting irritated.

From what I've seen of the Oklahoma responses on this forum, perhaps I should put that great state on my list of future places to live.

At the moment, however, I am content in Wisconsin, as is my wife. We've lived in Michigan (our home state) Illinois, and now Wisconsin.

I do have to admit that the cheese here is very good. Hee-hee.

DS

That's funny! Thanks for the laugh.

If it's any comfort, you still qualify for Philmont.

Yours in cheerful service,

DS

Eamonn:

That's a great story. Let me tell you one I heard personally from Chief Scout Executive Roy Williams that had us all (by us I mean every Scout Executive, DFS, ASE, etc. in attendance at the Top Hands meeting in 2001.)

Roy was newly minted as CSE at the time. He told us at the Jamboree he witnessed a run and one of the Scouts at the time at that particular Jamboree was a victim of multiple sclerosis (MS.) The kid couldn't walk, and one of his buddies dragged him around in a pull-cart for the entire experience.

Roy was standing at the finish line for the run and the scout and his buddy in cart came up. The scout pulling the cart stopped just before the finish line, got behind the cart and pushed it over the line. Roy asked him why he did that. The scout said, "So my friend could finish before me."

Roy then brought in the two scouts. They were greeted with a standing ovation and about 500 men and women who suddenly had a single coughing fit and had to cover their eyes . . .

I just got kicked around a bit in the new books thread while on a vacation day. Why do I do this Scouting stuff professionally?

Because a kid is willing to be dragged around in a cart just for the priviledge of attending a national Jamboree. Because a scout is willing to courier him around. Because if we, as scout leaders don't instill the values found in the scout oath in law in our yong people, someone will teach them something else.

That's what the Scout Oath means to me. Exactly what it says.

I'm off my stump now. It's time for a nap.

Thank you for reading.

Pull the cart or push it. Depending on which is needed. Someone needs you.

DS

Let me reiterate a couple of things. One is that I'm on vacation and don't have all of my resources with me. The second is that I don't think we're talking about a whole lot of requirement changes. The third is that the books have been changed before, and they're being changed again. The fourth is that I don't have copies of the new books and I don't believe anyone else does, either.

My advice -- don't sweat it a whole lot. National is providing a transitional period between one book and the other. As for what to tell kids using the "wrong book," I'd say, don't tell them it's the wrong book. It's a different book. That's all. If one kid has a slightly different requirement in his book than the other, then have him meet the requirement as written in his book during the transition period.

Now please realize that I wear silver shoulder tabs . . . not gold. I'm not a national guy and no one in the BSA movement has asked me to join in these forums. I'm doing this on my own. And, today, as a matter of fact, I'm on a vacation day and had no intent of even thinking about Scouting. I just enjoy it and have (I feel) a bit of expertise on the matter.

I can and will continue to join in the forums. However, I have no jurisdiction over Cub Scout books and can't effect changes in them. Beat on me if it makes you feel better, but I can't promise results.

Taking it in stride,

DS

Isn't it amazing what high school aged-kids can accomplish with adults guiding them, but not doing it for them? I saw it Saturday in my Kiwanis role working a pancake supper.

We couldn't have done it without them.

In my book a leader has three choices and all are applicable at some given time depending on the ages and what's to be led. Those options are lead, follow or get the *&%% out of the way! When you've got sharp high-schoolers, choose the last option.

Great job ASM!

DS

Marty -- Kudos to you! Excellent advice for all BSA units.

I don't know how many times I've had to weigh in when units get into avoidable fire-fights over what happened to the money. There should be two signatures for every significant expenditure. Councils have a rule (not all follow it) that at least one professional and one volunteer sign every check. This is for the protection of all concerned.

I was a little concerned Saturday when, during my Kiwanis Club's annual fund-raiser (which is a pancake day where we served pancakes and sausage to 8,056 people) I ran out and bought soda pop for our volunteers. When I got back, I was given a check for the amount I spent. The thing that bothered me was that there was only one signature on the check.

I'm not worried that our club secretary would steal money from us. He's a police lieutenant with the local department who's integrity is beyond question -- but what would happen to his career if someone were to accuse him of stealing? He'd be in trouble and would have no back-up.

My advice to those who handle money in the name of Scouting -- get some backup. Have two signatures required on checks and make sure the other one isn't your spouse.

DS

Man of Steele -- I like that! At five foot six and a hundred and twenty pounds it's nice to be called the man of Steele. The e on t he end means I'll bleed if you shoot me.

DS