dsteele

Some of the pocket cards are still available, but I'm not sure which ones.

I never liked the pocket cards. They always seemed too far reaching in terms of expectations placed on volunteers. I prefer to ask the volunteer to do what I need him/her to do and only what I need him/her to do.

The old philosophy was to ask for everything and accept what you get, but I prefer to ask for what I need and find other channels for those who will not or can not do the job. I suppose from a volunteer perspective that both have their negatives, but I find that honest recruiting leads to the best program for our youth.

I also consider every position description to be a draft. When I go over it with a possible volunteer, we talk about each point. If he/she indicates that they can't or won't do a job (I forgot to mention that I always recruit in tandem with a volunteer) we cross it out, or if it's an agreed-upon (between myself and the recruiting volunteer) deal-breaker, we fall back.

Job descriptions are a tool for all concerned. Keep them workable.

DS

Eamonn -- I'm still laughing. You have me and I appreciate your british wit! It's told that one should not tell an Englishman a joke on Saturday because he'll break up the service on Sunday when he gets it! (Another joke, my friend.) You have shattered that myth.

Twocubdad -- I have no idea what I can get for these esoteric items. I know there are serious collectors out there and that Chief Scout Executive's Winner's Circle items are rare. I'm also not particularly interested in selling them (although I could be tempted.) When I ordered my ring for the 1989 circle, I got it too big by accident. It fits now and I've got it on my right ring finger for the first time in many years. I like it. In fact, that year in my council only 2 professionals (including myself) out of 16 earned it. It would be hard to give up even though it's been in a drawer forever.

I have no idea how e-bay works. Perhaps you could enlighten me further?

Thanks.

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

Gentlemen, I salute you.

I'm of a later generation (born in late 1965,) but I remember bits and pieces of the coverage of the Vietnam War (yes, it was a war, no matter what anyone else says.)

You might be heartened to hear that (this is my opinion) most of my generation supports you and can't believe the actions of our parents and others of their generation who deplored the war and passed along their animosity to veterans.

But the story below might hearten you.

One of the first contacts I had as the new Chippewa District Executive was to call all my scoutmasters and cubmasters to mobilize the troops and give the National Guard guys a good send-off. It was a Friday night and they were about to ship off to Operation Desert Shield.

I called and several were from the Vietnam era. One actually said, "You're damn right my troop will be there tomorrow morning. When I shipped off to Vietnam no one was there for me." It was the first contact I'd had with many of the unit leaders and they did those soldiers proud.

We got about 300 people in uniform and out to a corner where the convoy was going to pass by. Waved flags and stuff like that.

I saw a woman (I'll never forget this) who was probably the wife of one of the truck drivers, jump on the running boards and kiss him. It occurred to me then that he might not come back.

I held my emotions until I got home. Then I lost it for pretty much the rest of the day. Part of it was because I always wanted a military career. Had the congressional nomination to West Point in 1984, but didn't get the appointment because of medical reasons.

Flash forward to the troop's return . . .

I called the packs and troops again and we had an even better location and turn-out. Most of the town was there, but there were about 400 people in Scout uniform. Flags waving. This time, the troops walked by and it was a sight to see. I was in full uniform (including socks and campaign hat.) Parking was hard to come by and I had to walk blocks to get to main street.

The soldiers walked across a bridge, past the crowd and climbed onto a bus to go back to the armory.

As I walked to my car, I saw the bus pull around a corner. I raised my right hand in a stiff Scout Salute and came to attention.

I could see the guys cheering inside the bus. They waved and I stayed at attention. It was one of the most special moments of my life. I'm glad I could greet them properly.

Now, one of my habits is calling all those I know who are veterans on memorial day or veteran's day -- whichever I have free, and thank them for their service to their country. If you guys email me with your phone numbers, I'd be proud to add you to my list.

I can't wait until our troops in the middle east and Afghanistan come home. I'm an Assistant Scout Executive now, and not a District Executive. They're in for a heck of a welcome in Southeast Wisconsin. I promise.

Thank you.

Dave Steele

This is not a commercial or an advertisement. It's curiousity.

I've seen e-bay referenced several times and am addressing those folks who are familiar with it and know prices.

The Chief Scout Executive's Winner's Circle is a recognition program for professionals only that began with Chief Ben Love in the eighties. It has continued, and probably won't go away.

There's always a fancy-dancy recognition that goes to those that earn it.

I have on my finger a chief scout executive's winner's circle ring that I'm told is very expensive on e-bay. Has anyone seen one? What did it go for?

I also have a sterling silver belt buckle (what a bomb that one was in the Midwest!) I've heard that one went for $300 on e-bay. Does anyone know what it went for?

I looked at the site and all I saw was the leather portfolio that was last year's prize.

All bear the logo of the Chief Scout Executive. It's a cool logo. It's the old Boy Scout fluer-de-lis surrounded tighttly with a wreath and red, white and blue with the words Boy Scouts of America in two bands across the top and bottom.

They aren't for sale ... at least not mine. It's not an easy award to earn because it's based on membership and unit gains from June to June. I've actually made "the winner's circle" less than I've made quality district. 10 of 14 vs. 13 of 14.

We'll make it this year. Not that I'm busting my back for the leather garment bag, but it will be nice to have.

DS

Thank God he didn't do the macarena!

Eh Macarena!

Oy Vey!

DS

Jack:

You may be embarking on what will be a journey to a rare collection.

When I was a DE, the Field Director came up with the bright idea of selling phone cards with pictures of camp on them to Scouts. The council would get a percentage back when the card was used.

We ordered thousands of them. They bombed, big time. So we were stuck with them.

The finance director ordered us DE's to use them up rather than letting them expire. We were forbidden to use long distance service, even calling from the council office, and required us to use the phone cards.

I can't remember the time on the cards, but each one had a limited amount of time and we had to enter a huge PIN number to use them. We covered a large rural territory so all of us had some long distance every day.

I played along. It was a royal pain when you had multiple cards with only a few minutes on them.

Conversations would go like this . . .

DE talking. DE hears tone in his ear and a feminine voice telling him he has 30 seconds left on the card. DE says, "Mike, my card is about to run out. I'll call you back in a minute and we can talk more about FO . . . (click) S."

Oddly enough, Mike wasn't around when I called back with a new card.

If I'd been smarter then, I would have used the almost expired calls to talk to the long-winded grousers.

DS

Good question. Here are some of my tips for the care and feeding of your new D.E.

1. Treat them like a friend and with respect.

2. Offer to help in any way you can.

3. Never call them kid. (I used to get that all the time and it really bugged me.)

4. Don't criticize the council in their presence. It quickly makes it feel like it's the DE against the world.

5. Feed them. Invite them into your home for a meal. You'd be amazed at what some food will do for a guy who isn't making much.

6. Help them try "new" things, even if your district has attempted them in the past and they didn't work. For one thing, it just might work this time. For another it shows a modicum of trust and effort.

7. Make sure they take some personal time. Quite often the DE feels like they have to be at everything in order for things to run at all. They'll work so hard that they never seem to take the time for laundry, fun, or anything else. If they can't relax, they'll be gone before you know it.

8. Well, heck, if you can do 1-7, that's probably enough.

DS

Yeah-man (private joke) Actually, I meant Eamonn and no offense.

I'll have to check at the office, but there are guidelines "out there" for all kinds of job descriptions.

I know you're a district chairman and am assuming that you're looking at this guy as a possible district marketing chairman. My recommendation is that you sit down with a pad of paper and brainstorm what you would like this individual to do for your district/council. Then take the sheet and meet with your district executive or bring it up at the next key three. A lot of times the movement seems to be ambiguous with job descriptions because of so many variances locally. I've written and helped write many job descriptions because the cookie cutter ones didn't meet our particular needs at the time.

Here's the process I recommend:

Develop a list of marketing needs. Decide which ones this individual is capable of helping your district to achieve. Get input from others including your district executive. Have him run it by his supervisor. Then ask the individual to do it.

Elements of a job description (by Dave Steele's experience)

Position concept

Who (volunteer wise) he/she reports to

Specific desired achievements.

Then you follow up with the tools they need to achieve those accomplishments. By saying you in the previous sentence, I mean yourself through your leadership to the district, the district executive through his/her resources, and the district committee through the resources of the district.

And, unlike the United Way person, I would not have chided you for not having the job description when you met with the person. Sometimes you need to feel out needs and desires only before hitting them up with a request. Also sometimes, you have no clue what the person wants to do in Scouting. As the song goes, "getting to know you, getting to know all about you . . ."

Sometimes the banker wants to plan the camporee and sometimes the plumber wants to run the FOS campaign. In my professional time, I tend to gravitate toward membership, unit growth and unit service. In my volunteer time with Kiwanis -- I'm a finance guy. A change is nice.

DS

Overtrained is correct. Go through your chartered partner for the insurance. It's the best way and the BSA way.

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

I think photoscout has something there. I remember being very excited about learning more about the Brotherhood ceremony in the Order of the Arrow. My father took his brotherhood the weekend I took my ordeal. I was very curious about the red lines on his wrist.

When I was told what I needed to do to find out, by obtaining brotherhood myself, I set out to do it. Sometimes mystery is cool.

However, some people aren't motivated to bother with a mystery. Perhaps we should be more open about answering their questions and get them to take this great course.

But who am I to talk. I couldn't solve my Rubic's Cube as a teenager and took it out and shot it up with a case of .22 bullets!

DS

I'm saluting all of you, but you can't see it. If you can, I'd better turn off my web-cam!

Keep 'em coming. People seem to like it.

DS

Welcome, Texas. It's time to think outside the box and yet, still fit within it.

Is there leadership available for these three boys? By that I mean "others" and not necessarily parents. You say there is little chance of parental involvement, and I'll buy that for the moment.

You should talk to your professional staff. I would advise you to use leadership you have through your church or pack to register these boys as a troop. Yes, you need 5 boys to charter a new unit, but it can be done with less than that if your Scout Executive is willing to write a letter to national stating that there aren't any more boys to serve or that efforts to recruit more have proven fruitless. I've done it before, but always reluctantly.

It's an obscure option, but could work. Just make sure the boys are receiving the best program you can and that it is viable down the road. It's better than having 11 year old Cub Scouts.

DS

The question came up in another thread, "what are the characteristics of difficult volunteers."

It's a fair question. The answer will vary greatly by professional, but I'll attempt to expain what I meant.

There are some executive board and council officer type volunteers who don't understand the volunteer/professional relationship. It's not uncommon. A lot of people do. That's part of why there's animosity out there toward professionals.

The most common mistake is that people assume that the professional is running the show because he or she is being paid. This is not really correct.

Scouting is a volunteer run organization. We are governed at the national level by an executive board of volunteers and at the local level by an executive board of volunteers.

I said the most common mistake is to assume the professional is "in charge." Another mistake, however, is that when some volunteers hear that Scouting is a volunteer run organization, they assume that they are in charge and whatever they decide is what is.

The fact of the matter is that balance is key. The professional scouter does scouting all day every day. They do all aspects of scouting on a regular basis and learn very quickly.

However, scouting is just about all they do all day every day and if they're smart they'll surround themselves with volunteers with a broad base of knowledge.

Working together as equals creates a supportive enviornment capable of just about anything.

Balance is the key.

Think of volunteers and boards as being the U.S. Congress. The U.S. congress does not "rule" the United States. Think of professional Scouters as being the President. The President does not "rule" the United States. Instead we have three branches that, together, "rule" the United States.

Before any of you government junkies jump me, I'll admit that it's a loose analogy. But it's the best I could come up with before I leave for my council camping committee. I don't rule there either.

Hee-hee.

DS

I'm going to reply to the above under schmoozing with the pros. Mostly because that thread received not very many replies, and I'd like to have people think we have more friends than that

DS

I was so offended when, as staff advisor to the Wood Badge dinner the topic of "the song" came up. I told them I would cheerfully join in the singing of "the song." Whatever it was.

I received what I took to be looks of shock and horror from the group. "You can't sing the song!" someone said, "You haven't taken Wood Badge."

I was ticked. I took it to mean that only Wood Badgers could sing the song.

I think it's that kind of stuff that cloaks Wood Badge in mystery.

Now, if they had said, "You can't sing the whole song because each patrol sings "I used to be a . . . " and you haven't been assigned a patrol. We'd be glad to have you join us in the chorus."

I would have understood.

Back to Gilwell, happy land . . .

Thank you for the advice, folks. I have researched as far as I'm going to. My wife, when I brought up the topic, had reservations about the area in general. That coupled with the Custer analogy above (which was right on the money) compelled me to thank the area director for thinking of me and request that he keep me in his mind.

DS

Someone get the water bucket ready and let's hope we don't have to throw it. Cool down appears in order pretty soon.

DS

Sctmom:

I've taken many management/professional courses over the years as well, but none of them were of the same emotional level as Wood Badge. There's an indefinable enthusiasm/love/dedication on the part of participants and staff that it adds an element that I've yet to define well or steal the definition from anyone else.

Having just said the above not much, I suggest you attend in good faith. You'll get more out of it than you think.

Believe me, this comes from a guy who was ordered to go to Wood Badge by his Scout Executive one week before his wedding . . . and loved every minute of it.

Staffed three courses as well.

DS

SMT376RichmondKY (and if that doesn't send fingers criss-crossing the keyboard, my hat's off to you.)

I like the solution you proposed a couple of messages back. I don't think you need to attempt to be an investigator and I don't think that every parent and committee member needs to be involved.

It sounds from the PL's response, that he needs some skills instruction on proper discipline when his patrol members are acting up or not doing what he wants. I agree that hitting them with a stick isn't the right way. However, you can counsel him on the right way to do it.

I'm assuming this isn't a sick kid with a mean streak on his way to a habit of child/adult abuse. If you even suspect that to be the case, then take it to your Scout Executive and get child protective services involved.

When you say the youth profection video, I hope you're talking about the BSA (Award-winning, to get in a commercial) video A Time to Tell. I applaud that you're going to show it to the boys. However, I would caution you to send a letter to the parents before you show it, inviting them to attend and at least be aware.

I shudder to think of the Scout who comes home from the troop meeting and says "watched a sex video" when his mother asks him what he did. Yccch!

DS

I would probably taint your poll and didn't answer it. I took the old Wood Badge course and read the syllabus before I went.

There is mystery surrounding Wood Badge, mostly by volunteers, but there are a good share of professionals who think that the Wood Badge experience should come gradually without a lot of pre-conceptions. Sort of like seeing a great movie you didn't know much about before you saw it. Raiders of the Lost Arc was that way for me. I suppose the first time experience of seeing it would have been somewhat more dim if I had read the script.

It really isn't a secret -- but Wood Badge is difficult to explain. United Ways ask me all the time how we quantify and measure that Scouting teaches values. It's like that.

BTW -- if anyone has ideas on numerically verified ways to measure Scouting's results, I'd be happy to hear them. We've tried # of badges learned, # leaders trained, # quality units, # Eagle Scouts -- doesn't work.

Sorry to slightly alter the topic of the poll.

What happens to poll results?

DS

Bob:

I have to disagree, my friend. Not all of the credit goes to Sparkie's son. She's a heck of a Scouter (I speak from personal experience) and deserves a lot of credit herself.

Not that we as Scouters shouldn't appreciate a good thank you from time to time

DS

I'm kind of burying this thread, but figure the die-hards will find it.

Today I was asked by my Area Director if I would be interested in having my name tossed in the ring for a Scout Executive's position in a council with extremely difficult volunteers. By that I mean that the Executive board has their own ideas as to how Scouting should be run and I'm not sure I agree (or that the BSA agrees.)

I've been training for 15 years to be a Scout Executive and dream of one day holding the honor of serving in that position. However, I haven't been in my current council as Assistant Scout Exeuctive for very long and really like it here.

My wife isn't particular interested in moving either. What do you think?

Just curious.

But, boy, it's an honor to be even considered.

DS

My deepest sympathy.

I offer the same advice that others have in this thread. Don't try to get through the meeting on your own. A phone call to the local United Way (if you're not affiliated with a church) can lead you to a counselor who could help.

Grief is wierd stuff. Good luck.

DS

Rosemary --

I just got up off the floor which is where I fell after you made me dizzy with your math.

Please don't do that to a Social Sciences major who made Eagle at 13 years old and only earned a single 5 badge bronze palm so that the son he would never have could grow up to outrank him.

My head hurts.

Hee-hee.

DS

I've got to admit that I've done it. In a pinch, we improvise. I once had a Morman District Commissioner. We prayed and pledged at the beginning of the meeting and prayed at the end. Most of the time we ended up saluting someone's flag on their shoulder. I had to remind myself that we were saluting the flag and not the guy under it, but we were trying to be respectful of the flag.

DS