dsteele

Thanks, Ed. They did do an outstanding job and have been congratulated for it. They also received raises, etc.

My only problem with doing nothing (other than the fact that I am as angry as any of the female volunteers who heard his comments,) is that some key volunteers have the expectation that "the council" will deal with this individual.

DS

Onehour:

Argue with me all you want, it still sounds like you did a great job as Cubmaster

The previous sentence was meant to be complimentary.

Here's the hard part in my advice to you -- stop showing up. Make sure the new Cubmaster knows that you're giving him room to grow.

The example I'm about to provide applies to a Scout troop, not a Cub pack, but they're pretty similar.

When my troop changed Scoutmasters from a much beloved one to a new one, the old one told us boys he was going to take a few months off. Then he did. He was gone (as far as we were concerened because we didn't see him) for at least 5 months.

I'm pretty sure he kept in touch -- he still had a son in the troop -- but he was gone. When he came back, we were used to the new Scoutmaster.

That's only one example. I'm not telling you to simply walk away from your pack -- but maybe the parents and kids will benefit from a clean break. In the meantime, I'm sure you would be a great benefit as a unit commissioner to smaller or struggling packs in your district. I know we could always use talented, trained and good volunteers as commissioners.

DS

Please don't take my advice personally. I mean only to say that the change in leadership needs to be clear.

Also forgot to add --

The guy in question never set foot in camp during the Cub Scout camping season. Never contacted myself or anyone else regarding camp problems. Never brought up anything specific other than his comment about females being unfit for camp leadership.

DS

Thanks for the response.

I meant to address the camp problems, but forgot.

Each period at camp is evaluated by the adults. Each evaluation was read by the Scout Executive, myself, the council camping chairman and the district camping chairmen.

There were few problems at camp -- no more than usual -- and each person filling out the evaluation had a chance to be contacted personally. I called many within one week after their camp experience. The camping committee contacted the rest.

There really weren't many problems at camp other than complaints about bugs and heat. The fact that the camp director and program director are female has nothing to do with bugs or heat. The problems with the model rockets blowing up they fixed the next day. No one was injured but there's some rockets that we're pretty sure came down somewhere . . .

Keep the input coming. I'm listening . . .

DS

Laura:

eisely is correct -- especially the part about unfolding the form!

The health history is retained by the troop. I advise every unit leader (or tour leader) to have all the health forms in hand on every trip. The reason is that it contains parental permission to treat the kid if he's injured on an outing.

There were several times as a DE taking a Scout to the hospital for an injury sustained during a camporee that we had to wait for hours before a parent arrived and gave the hospital permission to treat the kid. If the SM had had the form, we wouldn't have had to wait.

I've heard that police officers can take a kid into custody in emergencies, but have never personally tested that one.

DS

PS -- I applaud the desire to get the kids their Scout badge as soon as possible. Way to go!

DS

Hop on the phone and tell this guy how you feel! He probably does feel like he's being punished by lack of attendance and could use some encouragement.

It's been my experience that changes in leadership often result in a dip in attendance. The past CM is proably the only CM most of your 90 kids and their families ever knew. They may have felt loyalty to the past guy and have allowed his absence to be an excuse to miss outings and pack meetings.

I would advise the new CM to keep up a great program and let it "take root." Even if the old families choose to skip out, new ones will come.

DS

I'd like some input on a situation I need to deal with involving a volunteer.

At a recent roundtable (I was not present as I was in another district covering a roundtable for a DE who reports to me who was sick,) a volunteer stood up and said that the problems we had at our cub scout camp last year were due to the fact that it was run by women.

He went on to say that we're supposed to be teaching boys to become men and that the job shouldn't be done by women.

Several female leaders left the roundtable. Several good volunteers sent the Scout Executive and myself emails demanding the removal of the offending leader and I agree that something must be done.

My question to the forum is what would you do if you were me?

Here's some more information --

1. The chartered organization selects its own leaders. I have no authority to remove this dude just because he's a sexist jerk.

2. I checked the rules. I can't go beat the stuffing out of him. The "women" he was talking about are two of my district executives. Not only do I respect and admire them for being good professionals, I feel a personal "parental" kind of feeling toward all my DE's and it makes my blood boil to have them malingned in any way.

3. This guy is the cubmaster in a small one pack town and has over 100 active boys. That doesn't excuse his behavior or his comments, but must be considered in the solution. I don't want to hurt or risk hurting, the program for those boys in his pack.

So, dear friend, put I ask you to put yourself in my shoes for a moment and tell me what you would do.

You're the assistant scout executive and this one just landed on your desk . . .

DS

I love the posts in this thread!

Thought you might want to know what an Assistant Scout Executive has in his trunk . . .

I have the Career Interest Surveys that have been processed and reports delivered to the school. I also have my performance reviews from the last 13 years -- don't know why they are there. Usually I have golf clubs in my trunk but I put those in my basement when I realized I only played once last summer.

Instead of maps, I have a road gps with all the informaiton (including every address) in my entire council in its memory banks. Too bad most DE's can't afford such a device. It really helps when I have to find someone's house.

DS

KS --

If I knew much of anything outside of Scouting, I'd have a real job.

But I do know that I pray for you and for the health, well-being and safety of all who live in troubled areas of the world.

I fully support the actions of our nation, but that doesn't mean I don't fear for those in harms way.

God Bless you and your family, KS. Keep safe and keep Scouting.

DS

I'd be the Scout Executive in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

DS

Buffalo2 --

I honestly thought your question would prompt more responses and wanted to wait until I saw a few before responding myself. You asked for input from the professionals, and here it is.

I love the Venturing program and want to see it become as strong and healthy as Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting.

We need to remember, however, that this program is less than five years old.

I've had a lot of volunteers in the past five years tell me that we should have a V.P. of Venturing, put on a week of summer camp just for Venturers, have Venture leader training (that one I agree with) etc.

Before we can do all of the great things listed above, we need to make sure we have strong Crews with strong programs of their own. In 'schmoozin' with the pros', you asked what volunteers could do to make the Venture program go. I applaud both your efforts and the question. My answer (realizing I'm only one professional) is that volunteers learn as much about the program as possible and use the knowledge to guide crews to the best program possible.

Once several crews are up and running, then it'll be time to look at venturing weeks at camp, roundtables, etc.

Council and district events exist to supplement -- not become -- unit programs. If the units aren't strong on their own, the events won't make them so, no matter how good they make the district and council volunteers feel.

Once the crews are strong (not all of them. We will always have units that are in transition), it will be time to create and utilize a structure of council events and camping programs just for venturers.

Venturing is a growing area -- I think of it like a tree.

Bear with me, I'm going somewhere with this.

If you have a huge old oak tree in your front yard (like Cub Scouting or Boy Scouting,) you might want to build a bench around it, or put in a tree swing or fort for your kids. But when you have a sapling or a 5 year old tree, you make sure it's watered, it's possibly fenced so you don't run it over with the lawn mower, etc.

Venturing is the seedling. Let's watch over it, care for it, and let it grow.

Sorry to get sappy (grin) but that's the way I feel about this wonderful program.

DS

Hi folks:

I'm posting because I did earn the rank of Eagle at the age of 13.

I don't mean that my parents did it for me, although I will admit that my father counseled Architecture merit badge (he's an architect) and my mother counseled me on gardening merit badge (she wanted me to do all the work for the summer.)

Other than that, I worked my little tushy off and would lay awake in bed at night dreaming of my next rank. When I came home from my second or third troop meeting, I announced to my parents that I could make Eagle at age 13. In those days, there were time requirements between each rank and I had done the math. My parents answered by telling me that I had to do 1/2 hour of Scouting every day to make it happen. They enforced it much like most parents enforced school homework. Every day I didn't have a troop meeting or a campout, I read a merit badge pamplet, worked on a merit badge requirement, or just read the Scout Handbook.

I really, really, really wanted to be an Eagle Scout.

Thank God my Scoutmaster didn't block my project due to my age. He did, however, make sure it was worthy of an Eagle Scout.

That was 24 years ago. It's gone now, but it lasted over 10 years. The project, I mean. The Eagle Scout rank still stands.

I stayed active with the troop and the OA lodge until I went off to college at the age of 18.

Were my skills and maturity at the age of 13 those of an Eagle Scout? I'll say yes, but only because they were tested in boards of review (in that council at that time) by the district advancement committee for ALL Scouts going for Star, Life, or Eagle. I'm not advocating that system, but it did eliminate troop bias or parent bias, etc.

Having said that, let's ask the question the other way -- were my leadership skills and maturity greater at age 18 than they were at 13? Of course. Just like they're greater at 37 than they were at 18.

Do I think Scouts should earn Eagle at age 13? Not unless they deserve it. Of course, Scouts should never earn Eagle unless they deserve it.

I'm getting off my tree-stump now.

Here's the rest of my story (these things were only possible because of the efforts of volunteers like you)

I attended Eureka College on a full-tuition scholarship named for President Reagan because of Scouting.

I became a professional Scouter in 1989 because I wanted to pay Scouting (meaning people like you) back for what it had given me.

I met my wife (a Girl Scout Gold Award earner) at summer camp and we've been married for 11 years.

All things good in my life have been touched by BSA volunteers.

Thank you!

DS

Mrs. P. is correct.

DS

Mr. Potlatch -- I say that with affection and hope I don't offend. What a great monicker!

Anyhow -- I'll stand by what I said earlier. I envy you and wish I could attend Wood Badge for the 21st Century. The old course was great, but the new course looks even better.

To the other guys -- I can't find the 6 months minimum anywhere, either. I thought that was a good rule.

The new ticket worksheet begins with a vision statement that reads "in 18 months . . . " and seems to imply that it will take 18 months to work the ticket. I sense a philosophical change. We do have those from time to time.

I promise I'll call our regional office tomorrow and get an answer from the Associate Regional Director (a professional) who works with Wood Badge. I'll post his answer by 5:00 PM Central Standard Time.

DS

Let's talk about Exploring (response to previou reply by Dan.)

In 1998 the Exploring Program, which until then had been a traditional program of the BSA, moved to the Learning for Life subsidiary corporation.

In the past (I want to say late 50's, early 60's, but Dan can probably correct me) Venturing and Exploring were two seperate programs. The Ranger Award is not new, just re-vamped.

In 1969, Exploring went co-ed. The focus shifted from senior Boy Scouts (which was a program) to a more career-oriented focus.

By 1998, most Explorer Posts had a career interest affiliation, no uniform, no advancement, and no real resemblence to Cub Scouting or Boy Scouting. Law suits against municipal agencies (namely under the auspices of police and fire departments) were being sued for sponsoring organizations that had standards of membership regarding religion and sexual preference.

I'm not in a position to speculate on the reasoning of national committees (volunteers with professional advisors,) but I will say that my logic is that by 1998 these Explorer Posts were very different than the traditional Cub Scout Pack or Boy Scout Troop. They deserved to have their own program and, being career centered and not values centered, should have their own standards of membership.

In August of 1998, Exploring moved to the Learning for Life subsidiary. If you want to find them on the internet, look for Learning for Life. You'll find links. Still a great program.

Now, the above leads to the question of what to do about High Adventure Exploring Posts, church-based Exploring Programs, hobby-type posts, etc.

The Venturing program, not coincidentally, was launched in August of 1998. This program has its own oath, advancement program and membership standards as the Boy Scouts of America. Take a look at the advancement requirements -- it's cool stuff! Other than not having a set uniform, Venturing fits in very well with the traditional programs of the BSA.

However, the BSA (meaning guys and gals like you and me) aren't very quick to change. We need to work together to learn as much about Venturing and get excited about it if we can. It's demographically the largest market the BSA is just beginning to tap and an area that all of us don't know much about. I'm just saying that it's still (for a 90+ year old organization) a new program. Let's embrace it and grow it.

Have a nice evening.

DS

The teleconference broadcast was a good broadcast. Each council got a copy of the tape for backup reasons -- in case the telecast was interrupted.

Most of those giving Scouting testimonials were the heads of organizations that are our largest charter partners -- and few of those "Institutional Heads" are female.

I really don't want to open a can of worms on females in the Boy Scouts of America (having said that, I'm sure I will,) but I'm all for it!

I worked with several District Chairmen (that's still the official term) and the very best was a female. She really got the job done and was a pleasure to work with. I've also had the honor of working with a female OA Lodge Advisor, membership chairman, numerous Cubmasters and so forth.

I'm confident that women weren't part of the teleconference simply because the heads of the Lions, Moose, Salvation Army, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, etc. are still male. No slight intended; just worked out that way.

The teleconference resulted in over 2,500 commitments for new units. I doubt that many will come through, but I applaud the effort. If we gain even 900 units across the country with an average membership of 19 per troop, 25 per pack and 8 per crew, we'll have done something great for those kids.

I agree with Bob White's intimation -- we have a responsibility to those new units. New Units are not easy. Unless everything goes right from the offset, they're in trouble.

Jesus Christ had a parable ... I don't have a Bible in front of me, but the parable talks about some seeds fall on fallow ground, some on fertile ground. We (professionals and volunteers) need to be the fertile ground. Find out who the people are in those new units. Offer to help plan, train, show them how to succeed.

From what I've seen of the Scouters involved in these forums, I have absolute faith that you will do whatever you can to help new units succed in bringing the Scouting programs to the youth of our country.

Thanks for your support of Scouting programs.

DS

Here are the answers to the "Title Challenge."

AD Activities Director

ADFS Assistant Director of Field Service

ASE Assistant Scout Executive

BSA Borough Scout Executive

BM Business Manager

CD Camping Director

DCS Director of Camping Service

DE District Executive

DFiS Director of Finance Services

DFS Director of Field Service

DiD District Director

DLFL Director of Learning for Life

DSS Director of Support Services

ED Exploring Director

EE Exploring Executive

EnD Endowment Director

ExFD Exploring Field Director

FiD Finance Director

LFLD Learning for Life Director

LFLE Learning for Life Executive

PD Program Director

PRD Public Relations Director

SDE Senior District Executive

SEE Senior Exploring Executive

SLFLE Senior Learning for Life Executive

SPP Special Position Professional

TD Training Director

Yeah. They keep him in the basement and shove food at him with a stick.

DS

Bob's right. That's what I get for answering from memory instead of looking it up.

I found the 18 month thing in the syllabus and course director's guide.

However, I can't find the 6 months minimum. Did that go away, too? Or am I just looking in the wrong place? It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

DS

Hello . . . resident professional dropping in ...

(LOUD THUNKING NOISE)

Volunteer responsibilities vary greatly from council to council, as Bob pointed out.

If you're curious about specific programs, fund-raisers, etc., your best bet is to call your council service center and ask to speak to the staff advisor of (insert whatever here.) You'll be directed to the professional "in charge" of whatever. It may be a DE, or any other professional. They'll be able to tell you who their volunteer in charge is.

DS

If you're interested enough to read this far, you might be a candidate for the "Title Challenge."

Here is a list of abbreviations for local council professional positions. In a later reply, I'll list the answers

AD

ADFS

ASE

BSE

BM

CD

DCS

DE

DFiS

DFS

DiD

DLFL

DSS

ED

EE

EnD

ExFD

FD

FiD

LFLD

LFLE

PD

PRD

SDE

SE

SEE

SLFLE

SPP

TD

Gotta agree with you on the above, Bob.

Check out the "title pop-quizz" on schmoozin' with the pros . . .

We don't charge for advertising threads, do we?

DS

The ticket is simply a set of goals you develop for your position in Scouting and will accomplish using the skills you learn on the course.

There is a minimum amount of time to accomplish these goals and a maximum amount of time. The ticket should take no less than six months and no more than 24.

Ticket items (individual goals) can be changed or modified after the course if there are changes, in position, marital status, and other things along those lines.

During the course, make notes of ideas that you would like to implement in your position. When it comes time to write your ticket you'll have lots of stuff to draw on.

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

In Southwestern Michigan, one of the finest -- and least known -- sources of information can be found in the Michigan History section of the Kalamazoo Public Library.

DS

Dan's right. I couldn't write a ticket for someone else and for a unit about which I know nothing.

I didn't see it as casting stones, Dan. My comment was off the cuff and I'm glad you called me on it.

The Wood Badge ticket is, and ought to be, an individual thing. A counselor will be assigned following the course to assist people in completing the items successfully.

DS